scoutldr

According to the insignia guide, it is "legal" to wear temporary patches on the back of the MB sash. Nothing is permitted to be added to the OA sash. My temp patches are in shoe boxes in the closet, and when I die, my sons will probably sell them for 5 bucks at the yard sale, since they mean nothing to anyone but me. I wear one temp patch on my uniform shirt...a 1966 patch from our council camp...the first year I attended. I do have a red wool jac-shirt with my 50 miler patch on the right pocket, but that's it. The darn thing keeps shrinking, though!

Sounds like retesting to me, Ed. Then what if he can't do it? Does he fail the BOR?

I don't disagree, acco. But the Eagle is the only "rank" that you wear until you die. "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle", but you're a Second Class only until you earn the next rank or turn 18, whichever comes first. I guess the "gatekeeper" for all of this is the Scoutmaster. We need to be a lot more circumspect in signing off the "Scout Spirit" requirement. Speaking from personal experience, the SS requirement is only viewed in the Scouting context. It doesn't matter that he is failing 3 classes and was given in-school suspension for misbehavior three times this semsester...as long as he gets along with others OK on campouts... The take-home message for Scouts and parents is that being a "Scout" is 24/7...not just for 90 minutes on Monday nights. It's a lifestyle, not just another extra-curricular activity.

We had a similar problem with raccoons at our council camp...no fear of humans and ravaging tents and troop supplies at night, even with us adults snoring loudly. This year there were none. Allegedly the ranger had "trapped" them all and removed them to some other property. I suspect they were sent to raccoon heaven...the Ranger doesn't strike me as being a PETA supporter. Either way, we didn't have a coon problem this year...everyone's candy stash was safe. I agree with the others...if things are so dangerous that camp staff must be armed...I would think that the camp would be closed first.

Were these the local "public" newspaper? If so, unless the papers were removed one at a time for 50 cents each, it was theft, and the ISU campus cops should be looking to arrest the perps of that crime as well. Were these the ISU student paper (unlikely this time of year)? Or were these the NOAC newspaper? A similar thing happened here...the local University student newspaper obtained the salaries of all faculty members via the FOIA and published them. Within hours of distribution (in free racks all over campus), all of the papers mysteriously disappeared. The University claimed they had the right to approve/disapprove whatever was printed, even though as a state University it's public information. Membership in the BSA requires "duty to Country." In my mind, that means respecting and upholding the First Amendment rights of others....at least that's what the voices in my head keep telling me.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Umm, that would have been me. Based on the fact that the little box that the medal comes in has "Eagle Scout Award" on it. You are correct that the Eagle Scout "Rank" is referred to throughout BSA literature...even on the "Application for Eagle Scout Rank". Perhaps the "Award" refers to the medal itself. I don't think it's worth arguing over. Personally, I don't like the term "rank" used in the BSA context. That implies that responsibility and authority are vested in the rank, rather than in the POR. I know many Eagles in troops where the SPL is a Life. The Eagle "rank" should hold a higher place of honor than just the last step of the advancement trail, IMHO. Getting all of the boxes checked should be just the prerequisite for being considered for the "award". Just like the Vigil "Honor" is based on more than whether the candidate has been a Brotherhood for two years. For example, the not so hypothetical scout who has received (earned?) 21 MB, watched his dad build a park bench and wore a Scribe patch for 6 months is too often automatically sent to the BOR and advanced. Oh, that shoplifting conviction or suspended drivers' license? Well, he was just a juvenile and deserves a second chance. His 15 year old girlfriend got an abortion last year? Boys will be boys. Perhaps there should be things that automatically preclude an Eagle Award: Any conviction in a court of law Being fired for cause from Camp Staff (or any other job) Any school suspension or expulsion Becoming an unwed parent As I stated before, society thinks Eagles are the cream of the crop, not only of Scouts, but of all young men. They are expected to be the best of the best...in all aspects of their lives, not just knot-tying and first aid. We have a weighty responsibility not to disappoint. Or are we going to look the other way and keep dumbing down the requirements just to keep our numbers up? Not sure I'm expressing it adequately...maybe I'm just getting old.

And you should be fined for violating the noise ordinance. Just like the gangsta rapper should be who is blasting obscene lyrics into my car (and kids' ears) from the next lane at the stop light. One man's "good news" is another man's obnoxious noise. Both have rights to the "quiet enjoyment" of their environment. What a great country!

The Priest of the Catholic church in my neighborhood will have nothing to do with Scouting. Won't even let me use a classroom for adult training. New Priest came in...same policy. Meanwhile, the Catholic church 2 miles away actually charters a Pack and Troop. The Priest is an Eagle Scout and sits on Eagle Boards for candidates from their troop. Why the difference in policy, especially in the same diocese whose Bishop is Scout-friendly?(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Must be like those cabins at camp that no one is allowed to use, except the Professionals and selected Good Ole' Boys/Girls.

I'm not a Catholic, nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once. My understanding of the Catholic theology is that "practicing" homosexuality is a sin, but if one confesses, repents and takes a vow of celibacy, you are welcomed into the Priesthood. Again, it's the behavior, not the orientation.

What I see going on, not only in Scouting, but in society, is a push on the part of parents to "protect" their kids from ever failing or being unhappy. I was speaking with a friend yesterday, who described their troop meetings as totally run and planned by the troop committee. Every moment is planned and orchestrated, even to the point of having MB counsellors (who belong to that troop only) come to the meeting. During "Merit Badge" time, the scouts run to line up at the appropriate table and "hand in their stuff" to the counsellor who then gives them their assignment for the next week. At the end of x weeks, all of them get the same badge. (And for BW's sake, who I know is lurking, yes the leaders have been trained). Forgive me, folks but that is not teaching kids anything. The original purpose of the MB program was to teach kids to a)decide what MB they need to advance, b) go to the SM to get names of counselors and a signed blue card. At that point, the troop is out of the loop until the signed blue card comes back completed. It is then UP TO THE SCOUT to make the contact, make an appointment, and take a buddy to go see someone they have never met before and develop a relationship. Completing the requirements is but a fraction of what the MB program was designed to teach. What did becoming an Eagle USED to mean? It meant that this was someone who had the wherewithal to take initiative, make decisions about his own future, show courage to do new things and meet new people, lead others in organizing and accomplishing something of value, and last but not least, had a strong moral compass. I have seen Eagle candidates recommended to the BOR who had a juvenile record...would have been a felony if he'd been over 18. But, you say, he met the requirements! Sorry, but we're just not "getting it." Putting the Eagle Award (not "rank") on a young man's shirt is telling society, "this is the cream of the crop and he has our heartiest recommendation and trust." Any less, is letting down all of the Eagles who have gone on before. Sorry to say, I think we (as parents) have lost sight of the purpose. Now, when I see a new Eagle, all I know for sure is that he was able to follow a cookbook and complete all of the steps with someone holding his hand and telling him what to do and when to do it each step of the way. Yes, he could tie a square knot. Or at least, he was in the group sitting there when the Camp Counselor showed them what one looked like and put a check mark in the box. Yes, he did a project...just like his Dad told him to, and his Mom put it in a neat little scrapbook for him. Yes, he earned 21 MB...the same ones that the rest of the troop earned. Every Scout has the opportunity to make Eagle. But not all will because they did not or could not develop the qualities that the Eagle represents. And that's just fine with me and Society.

Desert? Does the winner get to go to Iraq?

firstpusk: You're right, I apologize for any perception of criticism. I have not examined the Catholic requirements nor how they are "mentored". But the sheer numbers that get cranked through the program every year are sure impressive, compared to other denominations. I must admit the concept of a "Board of Review" for a religious emblem was new to me.

I was recently the District Rep for a 13 year old's Eagle Board. There was no question that the young man had met the requirements. Yes, he was an "overachieving push himself" person. But he was like that in every aspect of his life, excelling in academics, church, and sports, as well. Where he found the time, I don't know, but that's not my business. As the BOR, we did our best to impress upon him to stay in scouting and enjoy the rest of the journey. As the other guys said, this unit leader is way out of line imposing a minimum age. If need be, I would speak quietly to the District Commissioner or District Advancement Chairman, so he can be discreetly shown the error of his ways. He is doing a disservice to the program as well as the youths with this arbitrary "rule".

Contrary to the belief of at least one Troop in my District, which "teaches" the awards in the unit meetings, seeing that scouts earn their awards is not a responsibility of the Troop or Pack. Our job as unit leaders is to promote the awards and make sure the scouts and their parents are aware of the oppportunity. I know that some Catholic Committees on Scouting have organized "classes" and they run them through every year, culminating with a large (100+ Boy and Girl SCouts) cermony/mass where the medals are awarded en masse by the Bishop. But, as a Lutheran scout, I was on my own and earned the Pro Deo et Patria award by working one on one with my Pastor. Luckily, he was aware of the program and we completed it. It involved many, many hours of service, discussions, and a project, all completed on my own. It was not a matter of just showing up for class. I have to say, it was harder to complete than Eagle.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Don't lose sight of the fact that the Religious emblems program is not a BSA program. They are programs of the church. BSA just allows the medal/square knot to be worn on the uniform.

I think at the very least, they should be made to relinquish their Jambo slot and let two of the alternates go. Part of our job is to teach kids that there are natural consequences to bad decisions. Maybe next time, they'll make an "ethical decision."

There are plenty of jobs to go around...not all at the Unit level. If you have someone who is showing enthusiasm and ability, do your District a favor and nominate them for a District position. Usually the greatest need (at least in my District) is for Unit Commissioners. We can always use experienced (or at least eager to learn) people on the Training Staff. Merit Badge Counselors, camporee chairman, FOS chair or Popcorn Kernal, School Night Chair, Camp Committee, Membership Committee, Finance Committee, Advancement Committee, the list is endless. Your DE will love you for it, I gahr-ahn-tee.

The most boring thing in the world is to have an "instructor" stand at a podium and read their notes to the class...especially someone who has never (or at least not recently) "been there, done that". I have had a great deal of experience in teaching, first as a scout, then as a Red Cross First Aid and Water Safety Instructor, then teaching adults and college-level courses. I think I know what I'm doing and I've been told I'm good at it...a "natural" if I do say so myself. The biggest complaints I get (nay, the only complaints) is with the material. New leaders come to training expecting one thing, and they are given something entirely different which is often viewed as useless. (I myself experienced this paradigm with the Trainer Development Conference which I was forced to attend.) I especially hate the part when they get the deer-in-the-headlights look when I tell them that no, it's really not one hour a week, in addition to den meetings, pack meetings and pack committee meetings, now they also need to go to Roundtable, PowWow and University of Scouting, and last but not least, Wood Badge, in order to get the information they are looking for and be able to perform in a minimally acceptable manner. The term "betrayed" comes to mind. My opinion (not that anyone is asking): Trash the current Cub training syllabus. Do away with Fast Start and put YP and NLE on video (DVD or online). Then go back to the old Basic Training --- one shot that covers both Cubmaster and Den Leaders --- at least one full day that actually shows them how to conduct an effective Pack and Den Meeting (which is all they really want to know). Learn by doing...not by lecture and video. When they are ready to graduate to Webs, have another full day === outdoors. It's not helpful to get people to come to training (and charge them money in some cases) only to tell them, "sorry, if you want to know that, you have to read all these books and go to another course." What if you went to your Doctor and he told you, "if you really want to know what's wrong with you, go buy this book and read it." I, for one, would feel cheated. I've been told by other trainers that if I can't cover the material in 2 and a half hours, I'm not doing it right. After all, all you have to do is read the stuff and play the videos on cue, then go home. You are right Eammon, that leaves no room for questions, exchange of ideas, concerns, games, songs, or even a bathroom break. But that seems to be the way it's been designed -- inherently ineffective. And we wonder why we can't get people to training.

Very few Scouts can afford a campaign hat, which has a distinctive BSA headband, pin device and National seal stamped on the sweatband.. The overseas cap is no longer produced. And I've NEVER been mistaken for a Marine.

Sure...they are "except as otherwise provided by law." As is the Civil Air Patrol, USCG Auxiliary, Sea Scouts, Young Marines, Naval Sea Cadets, and maybe some others I can't remember right now. The "Screaming Eagle Patrol of Troop XXX" is not one of those authorized by Congress, to my knowledge.

OK, Hops, be cool if you wish, but here is the Federal Law: TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > Sec. 771. Next Sec. 771. - Unauthorized wearing prohibited Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear - (1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or (2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps. Which part of "wearing prohibited" is unclear to you?(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

There was a rumor a while ago that all Lodge numbers were going away due to all of the mergers. Anyone have an update?

I believe the wearing of military uniform parts or insignia by civilians (i.e., those who have not earned the right to wear them) is prohibited by federal law.

Have you looked at the Council calendar to see what conflicts there are? It could also be that the denominational label is excluding people. I know in my council, we have a Methodist Encampment and a Catholic Retreatoree. These tend to be attended, not by units, but by individuals of those faiths, and few others. Being a Lutheran myself, I am not interested in attending a "Catholic" event. Our SM is Catholic, and he and one or two others attend...as individuals. It is not a "Troop" outing. While certainly not intentional, it could be you are appealing to too limited an audience. Another problem in society is getting people to RSVP for anything. They simply won't do it and see nothing wrong with dropping in and expecting the host to accomodate their rudeness...or if they do RSVP, see nothing wrong with accepting a better offer should one come along. I see this all the time with training courses.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)