scoutldr

Must be like those cabins at camp that no one is allowed to use, except the Professionals and selected Good Ole' Boys/Girls.

I'm not a Catholic, nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once. My understanding of the Catholic theology is that "practicing" homosexuality is a sin, but if one confesses, repents and takes a vow of celibacy, you are welcomed into the Priesthood. Again, it's the behavior, not the orientation.

What I see going on, not only in Scouting, but in society, is a push on the part of parents to "protect" their kids from ever failing or being unhappy. I was speaking with a friend yesterday, who described their troop meetings as totally run and planned by the troop committee. Every moment is planned and orchestrated, even to the point of having MB counsellors (who belong to that troop only) come to the meeting. During "Merit Badge" time, the scouts run to line up at the appropriate table and "hand in their stuff" to the counsellor who then gives them their assignment for the next week. At the end of x weeks, all of them get the same badge. (And for BW's sake, who I know is lurking, yes the leaders have been trained). Forgive me, folks but that is not teaching kids anything. The original purpose of the MB program was to teach kids to a)decide what MB they need to advance, b) go to the SM to get names of counselors and a signed blue card. At that point, the troop is out of the loop until the signed blue card comes back completed. It is then UP TO THE SCOUT to make the contact, make an appointment, and take a buddy to go see someone they have never met before and develop a relationship. Completing the requirements is but a fraction of what the MB program was designed to teach. What did becoming an Eagle USED to mean? It meant that this was someone who had the wherewithal to take initiative, make decisions about his own future, show courage to do new things and meet new people, lead others in organizing and accomplishing something of value, and last but not least, had a strong moral compass. I have seen Eagle candidates recommended to the BOR who had a juvenile record...would have been a felony if he'd been over 18. But, you say, he met the requirements! Sorry, but we're just not "getting it." Putting the Eagle Award (not "rank") on a young man's shirt is telling society, "this is the cream of the crop and he has our heartiest recommendation and trust." Any less, is letting down all of the Eagles who have gone on before. Sorry to say, I think we (as parents) have lost sight of the purpose. Now, when I see a new Eagle, all I know for sure is that he was able to follow a cookbook and complete all of the steps with someone holding his hand and telling him what to do and when to do it each step of the way. Yes, he could tie a square knot. Or at least, he was in the group sitting there when the Camp Counselor showed them what one looked like and put a check mark in the box. Yes, he did a project...just like his Dad told him to, and his Mom put it in a neat little scrapbook for him. Yes, he earned 21 MB...the same ones that the rest of the troop earned. Every Scout has the opportunity to make Eagle. But not all will because they did not or could not develop the qualities that the Eagle represents. And that's just fine with me and Society.

Desert? Does the winner get to go to Iraq?

firstpusk: You're right, I apologize for any perception of criticism. I have not examined the Catholic requirements nor how they are "mentored". But the sheer numbers that get cranked through the program every year are sure impressive, compared to other denominations. I must admit the concept of a "Board of Review" for a religious emblem was new to me.

I was recently the District Rep for a 13 year old's Eagle Board. There was no question that the young man had met the requirements. Yes, he was an "overachieving push himself" person. But he was like that in every aspect of his life, excelling in academics, church, and sports, as well. Where he found the time, I don't know, but that's not my business. As the BOR, we did our best to impress upon him to stay in scouting and enjoy the rest of the journey. As the other guys said, this unit leader is way out of line imposing a minimum age. If need be, I would speak quietly to the District Commissioner or District Advancement Chairman, so he can be discreetly shown the error of his ways. He is doing a disservice to the program as well as the youths with this arbitrary "rule".

Contrary to the belief of at least one Troop in my District, which "teaches" the awards in the unit meetings, seeing that scouts earn their awards is not a responsibility of the Troop or Pack. Our job as unit leaders is to promote the awards and make sure the scouts and their parents are aware of the oppportunity. I know that some Catholic Committees on Scouting have organized "classes" and they run them through every year, culminating with a large (100+ Boy and Girl SCouts) cermony/mass where the medals are awarded en masse by the Bishop. But, as a Lutheran scout, I was on my own and earned the Pro Deo et Patria award by working one on one with my Pastor. Luckily, he was aware of the program and we completed it. It involved many, many hours of service, discussions, and a project, all completed on my own. It was not a matter of just showing up for class. I have to say, it was harder to complete than Eagle.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Don't lose sight of the fact that the Religious emblems program is not a BSA program. They are programs of the church. BSA just allows the medal/square knot to be worn on the uniform.

I think at the very least, they should be made to relinquish their Jambo slot and let two of the alternates go. Part of our job is to teach kids that there are natural consequences to bad decisions. Maybe next time, they'll make an "ethical decision."

There are plenty of jobs to go around...not all at the Unit level. If you have someone who is showing enthusiasm and ability, do your District a favor and nominate them for a District position. Usually the greatest need (at least in my District) is for Unit Commissioners. We can always use experienced (or at least eager to learn) people on the Training Staff. Merit Badge Counselors, camporee chairman, FOS chair or Popcorn Kernal, School Night Chair, Camp Committee, Membership Committee, Finance Committee, Advancement Committee, the list is endless. Your DE will love you for it, I gahr-ahn-tee.

The most boring thing in the world is to have an "instructor" stand at a podium and read their notes to the class...especially someone who has never (or at least not recently) "been there, done that". I have had a great deal of experience in teaching, first as a scout, then as a Red Cross First Aid and Water Safety Instructor, then teaching adults and college-level courses. I think I know what I'm doing and I've been told I'm good at it...a "natural" if I do say so myself. The biggest complaints I get (nay, the only complaints) is with the material. New leaders come to training expecting one thing, and they are given something entirely different which is often viewed as useless. (I myself experienced this paradigm with the Trainer Development Conference which I was forced to attend.) I especially hate the part when they get the deer-in-the-headlights look when I tell them that no, it's really not one hour a week, in addition to den meetings, pack meetings and pack committee meetings, now they also need to go to Roundtable, PowWow and University of Scouting, and last but not least, Wood Badge, in order to get the information they are looking for and be able to perform in a minimally acceptable manner. The term "betrayed" comes to mind. My opinion (not that anyone is asking): Trash the current Cub training syllabus. Do away with Fast Start and put YP and NLE on video (DVD or online). Then go back to the old Basic Training --- one shot that covers both Cubmaster and Den Leaders --- at least one full day that actually shows them how to conduct an effective Pack and Den Meeting (which is all they really want to know). Learn by doing...not by lecture and video. When they are ready to graduate to Webs, have another full day === outdoors. It's not helpful to get people to come to training (and charge them money in some cases) only to tell them, "sorry, if you want to know that, you have to read all these books and go to another course." What if you went to your Doctor and he told you, "if you really want to know what's wrong with you, go buy this book and read it." I, for one, would feel cheated. I've been told by other trainers that if I can't cover the material in 2 and a half hours, I'm not doing it right. After all, all you have to do is read the stuff and play the videos on cue, then go home. You are right Eammon, that leaves no room for questions, exchange of ideas, concerns, games, songs, or even a bathroom break. But that seems to be the way it's been designed -- inherently ineffective. And we wonder why we can't get people to training.

Very few Scouts can afford a campaign hat, which has a distinctive BSA headband, pin device and National seal stamped on the sweatband.. The overseas cap is no longer produced. And I've NEVER been mistaken for a Marine.

Sure...they are "except as otherwise provided by law." As is the Civil Air Patrol, USCG Auxiliary, Sea Scouts, Young Marines, Naval Sea Cadets, and maybe some others I can't remember right now. The "Screaming Eagle Patrol of Troop XXX" is not one of those authorized by Congress, to my knowledge.

OK, Hops, be cool if you wish, but here is the Federal Law: TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > Sec. 771. Next Sec. 771. - Unauthorized wearing prohibited Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear - (1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or (2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps. Which part of "wearing prohibited" is unclear to you?(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

There was a rumor a while ago that all Lodge numbers were going away due to all of the mergers. Anyone have an update?

I believe the wearing of military uniform parts or insignia by civilians (i.e., those who have not earned the right to wear them) is prohibited by federal law.

Have you looked at the Council calendar to see what conflicts there are? It could also be that the denominational label is excluding people. I know in my council, we have a Methodist Encampment and a Catholic Retreatoree. These tend to be attended, not by units, but by individuals of those faiths, and few others. Being a Lutheran myself, I am not interested in attending a "Catholic" event. Our SM is Catholic, and he and one or two others attend...as individuals. It is not a "Troop" outing. While certainly not intentional, it could be you are appealing to too limited an audience. Another problem in society is getting people to RSVP for anything. They simply won't do it and see nothing wrong with dropping in and expecting the host to accomodate their rudeness...or if they do RSVP, see nothing wrong with accepting a better offer should one come along. I see this all the time with training courses.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

A Scout does not plagiarize. When posting something that's not yours, it is polite and ethical to quote the source.

I disagree. Illegal activity with your parents' knowledge and consent that results in death is not an "accident". The parents realize that...now. Perhaps others can learn from this. As adults, it is up to us to know what the laws are, to recognize unsafe acts and unsafe conditions (not "accidents"), and resist the temptation to keep our kids happy at the risk of severe injury or death. Not to mention the other poor driver who has to live with the fact that a child lost his life under his wheels. Regardless of fault, nothing will ever dull that memory. Thanks for the discussion. I hope we are all more alert and aware.

Wow, Rooster, what a leap! Nowhere did I say that the YP guidelines be thrown out the window. Besides, the boys in my troop won't even shower in front of each other, much less share a tent with a GIRL! When I was 14, I was in one of the first Explorer posts that went co-ed. The term "Exploring" took on a whole new meaning, despite the best efforts of our (bless their naive little hearts) adult advisors. Now that I am pushing 50, I'm pretty sure they were not that naive after all. Quit being absurd. We need to prevent child molestation, sure. But it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. My biggest objection is the BSA's seemingly selective morality. As I have said before, once we get rid of the homos and atheists, who will be next? Alcoholics? Wife beaters? Fornicators? Fat guys?(there goes the Commissioner corps!).

OK, I give. Unlike some others, I am willing to learn and change my opinion of things. The original question was about "official BSA berets". Unofficial ones are available all over town.

Being a mere volunteer, I don't have access to the BSA Administrative Manual, nor to the alleged memos from Irving. I guess I'll have to take your word for it. If Blackeagle says it, it must be true.

I post this because many of our Scout-age youth are enamored with these things. Many have appeared in my neighborhood, darting around on the streets. My heart bleeds for any parent who loses a child. We need to learn to "just say no", or we bear the blame. By JANIE BRYANT, The Virginian-Pilot July 23, 2004 PORTSMOUTH Pieces of the gas-powered scooter that 15-year-old Shamar Green worked hard to buy were scattered on Academy Avenue . His father had picked up his sons sneaker and hung it on the post of a nearby chain-link fence. He bought flowers and prepared to put a shrine there. Winston Green stood in the street trying to make sense of Shamars fatal accident. The only thing he was sure about was a dark, shadowy stain where his sons life had spilled away. The teen was riding his motorized chopper-style scooter when he collided with a sport utility vehicle at the intersection of Academy and Arthur avenues about 7:30 p.m. Wednesday. The next day there was no traffic, only the quiet enclave of narrow lanes and small homes. The Churchland neighborhood still holds onto some of the charm of its rural past. Winston Green has been back to that spot over and over, trying to picture what happened the night before. His wife, Sandra, wanted to know what happened, too. But mostly she wished she could go back in time. If I had it to do over again, he wouldnt have that scooter, she said. Thats for sure. A couple of Shamars friends had the stand-up type of scooter, she said. But he wanted the miniature motorcyle style after he saw one his neighbor got. Shamar was so excited, she said. He had to have one. Some of the bikes are powered by electricity, while others run on gas. Sandra Green couldnt recall exactly how much her sons scooter cost somewhere between $200 and $400 , she thought. It didnt go faster than 15 or 20 mph, she said. Shamar worked hard to earn a good part of the money, helping his father, who has a power-washing business. He got the miniature motorbike about three months ago and had already taken it apart and put it together again, his mother said. He was curious like that and dreamed of becoming a mechanical engineer one day. He had finished middle school in June and was on his way to Churchland High this year. He loved computers, basketball, fishing with his dad and cooking. He could follow any recipe or cook on the grill, his mother said. I think his favorite was spaghetti, she said. Everyone who knew him loved him, and he would do anything for you. He was kindhearted. As Sandra Green talked, the midday news appeared on a soundless TV, and fresh tears came as she saw a clip of her sons scooter at the wheels of the SUV. Police have not released the drivers name, and no charges have been filed. The investigation is continuing, said Ann Hope, a police spokeswoman. But Hope did say that the scooter, based on the size of its motor, was illegal to use on public roads. And those that can be driven on public roads must be operated by licensed drivers, she said. I spoke with some of the officers here, Hope said. There are a lot of scooters on the roads, and theyre being operated by kids without a license. It is a problem. Police said the 15-year-old was not wearing a helmet at the time of the accident. That was a surprise to Green, who said her son usually did wear one. He was real careful on it, she said. Thats why its so hard to believe that hes not here anymore.

Yes, there are homosexuals in scouting. Just as they are in every other segment of society. It's their behavior that I would object to, just as I would object to an "avowed" heterosexual whose behavior was overtly sexual in nature.

In my experience, the CORs don't show up for anything. So how can they conduct business at the annual meetings unless they have signed proxies?