scoutldr

I think something is also lost by not allowing Troops to attend Jamboree and Philmont as a unit. There is a perception that such activities are limited to an elite few, and most scouts don't bother applying.

Thanks, packsaddle. I tried. But rather than present inadequate training just to pump up the Council's numbers, I decided to focus my contributions in other areas. What would I suggest? Listen to the leaders who have to suffer through 3 hours of training only to find out that's not what they needed or wanted. At the end of every training session, a student evaluation form was filled out. Overwhelmingly, the comments were directed not toward the instructor, but toward the prepared syllabus and it's inadequacy. As an instructor, I had little control over that. To add the things that the students perceived they needed, and still "cover the material" would have doubled the time required. I also had to spend an inordinate amount of time "correcting" things in the training materials that were no longer correct...often things pointed out by the students that the instructor was not aware had changed. It's time to overhaul the training programs...again...and keep them current. Put as much on-line or on DVD as possible...perhaps contract it out to a training provider (college or community college) and take advantage of interactive distance learning technology. Allow students to progress at their own rate, on their own schedule. Training records in Scoutnet would be automatically updated (another pet peeve...Council training records). I would be happy to serve on a National task force or committee to study this...just PM me.

www.scoutingfriends.org I just went to this web site, and there is also a campaign "Fund to Rebuild Scouting" in the stricken areas. It is not just to assist BSA Employees.

If the SPL and PLC are not effective in leading the Troop, then the SM has not done his job. His job is NOT to do it for them. They have to be allowed to plan and execute, and to enjoy their successes and learn from their failures. If he feels that he needs to "take command", he just doesn't get it. Good luck, Katy. Sometimes if you send a jerk to training, all you get is a jerk with a "TRAINED" strip who still needs to be replaced. Training will not change personality traits.

From another list: September 1, 2005 To: All BSA Employees and Retirees From: Roy L. Williams, Chief Scout Executive Subject: Hurricane Katrina Disaster - Update Thank you for the concern so many of you are showing for our Scouting family during this tragedy. We now have more information regarding the storm's impact. Here are the facts that we have: o Nine of our local council offices in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama were directly affected by the storm. o Six council offices have been forced to completely discontinue all operations. The Southeast Louisiana Council office is currently flooded. o Numerous BSA employees in councils are not only out of work, but have also lost their homes and possessions. We know that recovery from this destruction will take years. The most pressing need of our employees now is financial assistance. Therefore, the National Council has authorized the immediate formation of the Hurricane Katrina BSA Employee Relief Fund, and approved a commitment of $200,000 to initiate this fund. The Southern Region will assist in distributing the funds collected, and the donations will be used to meet the needs of local council employees and their families. This is the first step in restoring Scouting programs in these devastated communities. Donations should be sent to: Hurricane Katrina BSA Employee Relief Fund c/o National BSA Foundation Boy Scouts of America 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079 Irving, TX 75015-2079 Donations may also be made electronically by going to www.Scoutingfriends.org, and click on the link to Hurricane Katrina BSA Employee Relief Fund. Additionally, Scout units that may wish to raise money in support of the relief effort should be referred to www.scouting.org where they will find a link for alternative projects to aid the primary relief agencies. Thank you for your generosity and commitment to supporting our Scouting families in need. Please share this information with employees and retirees who may not have received this e-mail.

I think you're getting warm, packsaddle. While some on this forum think that BSA training is the "magic bullet" for all our woes, I think it's pretty lame. As I stated before, I was a Trainer, and tried my best to deliver a quality training program...imparting my 30 years of experience at all levels of the program, which often meant that I went an hour over the alotted time, because I felt that answering their questions and concerns was more important. What was expected by the Council staff, was "just read the material and play the videos...how hard can it be"? In fact, when they declared "100% mandatory training", even the Council secretaries were pressed into service to be "Trainers". After all, "how hard can it be?" What the students needed and expected was not what they got...the new DL doesn't give a flip about the structure of the council ...they need to know how to keep a room full of second graders busy for 90 minutes (which they learn best at Roundtables and PowWow)...the rest they can learn later. Now, we're not even doing PowWow any more.

I believe the "rule" is that uniforms can be worn until they are no longer serviceable...but worn in their entirety. Do not mix/match parts from different eras. If the only difference is the "Cub Scouts BSA" strip, I wouldn't sweat it. I don't remember a tan shirt without epaulettes.

I work with active duty guys and the ultrathin ribbons do look good...I'm having a hard time visualizing the square knot version, though. No more than 3 rows of knots for WB staffers??? What's the point of that? Sheesh.

Has everyone had training? Ask your District Training team for the Troop Committee Challenge training...ASAP. Also, the SM needs to get his, too (training, that is). The Troop Committee is charged with operating the business end of the Troop (they are the "Board of Directors"), and also to approve the troop program submitted my the Patrol Leaders Council (who is guided by the SM). The SM's primary job is to train and advise the youth leadership in carrying out the program approved by the committee. (Sorry for the echo, Neil. I didn't thoroughly read your post, which was right on.)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

I was once CM of a pack like that. Pack meetings were long, boring and a nightmare. It took 2 hours just to get through the awards and maybe a skit. You have enough for 3 packs. Good luck.

You have to keep in mind that DE's love to form new units. That's how they keep their jobs.

Yeah, that's it. It's them poles. I think we need fewer poles and more checks.

As my Cuban friend says, "maybe we should just let lying dogs sleep."

I don't think there is a simple answer that can be reduced to a bullet list. I think the "scandals" are area specific...for instance no one in my council knows about the Atlanta or Chicago issues unless they read this forum. I live in the Bible Belt, so the religion thing is not an issue...most are either for it, or at least are not offended by it. In my opinion, kids are "overscheduled" from the time they are 3 years old. By the time they are scout age, they are involved in so many different activities that scouting just doesn't compete, unless it's a one hour meeting a week. Most parents will fit that in, because "scouting is good". When it comes time for a deeper commitment to weekends, serving on committees, training, roundtables, etc., they bail and the kids go with them. If they are told "it's only one hour a week", that's what they are willing to commit. And believe me, they are still actually being told that. Another factor is that kids nowadays are accustomed to their "creature comforts", and aren't interested in bugs, sweat, heat, cold, rain, sun, gathering firewood, washing dishes, cooking, policing up the campsite, etc, because that isn't an expectation at home. They've had everything handed to them, or everything was scheduled for them, so they don't have to think, plan, remember, or manage their time or work for delayed rewards. This is especially evidenced by the Girl Scout council here who had to build air conditioned cabins so girls would come to camp. Before I get thrashed, I realize I am painting with a broad brush, and there are pockets of exception out there. But that's how I see it.

Welcome, JM. I believe that the equivalent would be Venturing, for ages 14-21, male and female. The units are called Venture Crews and are separate from Scout Troops.

Nowhere is that said in Youth Protection. Maybe not in the syllabus, but the instructor said it and it made sense. I think it's one of those "common sense" things, rather than a policy. If we think about it, the program as designed, tends to segregate by ages...the "new scout Patrol", regular patrols and "Venture" patrols. Unfortunately, though, many units are simply not large enough to have that kind of structure. I have stated before that we should encourage existing units to mature by adding youth before we start up new units in the same area, with minimum numbers of members per unit. But that's a different topic, and as long as the professionals are rewarded on quantity rather than quality it won't change.

I got mine in 1965 and there was a 8x10 certificate and a wallet card. Your best bet might be to search ebay, contact some of the large sellers directly and tell them what you're looking for. Getting one without a name on it may be kinda tough.

Any way you look at it, rank has nothing to do with it. You can theoretically have a 12 year old First Class and a 17 year old Second Class. So the 12 year old can have his own tent, but the 17 year old has to share? That's just dumb. I also think the Buddy system argument is a stretch. If a scout is mature enough that he wants to sleep alone in his own pup tent or bivy tent, more power to him. When I took YP training, it was also stressed that scouts should not even be paired with other youth if there is a 3 or more year age difference.

Recruits other members of the Pack Committee, with CO approval. (excluding CM and Den Leaders) Sets the agenda for and chairs Pack Committee meetings. Primary POC for the COR. Attend District Roundtables. Provides annual report to the CO on the "State of the Pack".

Generic camporee and other event patches were available (and I believe they still are). They are almost impossible to identify to a specific event or location and typically have a very low value to collectors.

Yes, it was. knottyfox is going through some tough times, so I'm not going to take the bait and spar with him on a personal level. Living on the east coast since 1957, my family has also seen our share of hurricane action. As an Explorer Scout, my Post spent a week in the Blue Ridge mts helping with search and rescue efforts after Camille in 1969, being flown into unreachable areas in Huey helicopters. We would search all day, then spend the night in the local high school gym. I have seen total destruction and whole families buried in mud first hand, and I don't discount it. Our Council camp still looks like a war zone from Floyd, Dennis and Isabel. After Isabel, my neighborhood was without power, water and phone service for almost 2 weeks. I didn't get a tree through my roof, so I consider myself lucky. Some of my neighbors weren't so lucky. I also realize this was nothing compared to Katrina. I have sent in a sizeable donation to the Salvation Army...that's all I can do for now. I will probably send in more later as the needs continue. Knotty, no hard feelings...good luck and God Bless.

Matua, If I were you, I would have my scouts just wear their "Class B" uniform. In this area, that would be some sort of a scout T-shirt and whatever else they wanted to wear. What? There's no such thing as a "Class B Uniform" in the BSA???...all right, then it's a moot point and is not a violation.

As I understand it, the CORs are voting members of District Committees. The District Chair is a voting member of the Executive Board. The Staff (SE, DE, etc) are employees serving at the will of the Executive Board. As a non-profit corporation, a Council has to abide by the laws of the state and the articles of incorporation. Sounds to me like the CORs who are being ignored should ban together and hire an attorney to give them advice as to how to proceed.

Yep, even Buddhists and Zoroastrians. Keep it coming!

OK, my donation is in. My charity of choice was the Salvation Army. The amount was not huge, but enough that I had to think about it and will probably make some adjustments for the next month in my personal spending. I challenge everyone on this Board to do the same. Christian, atheist, Jew, Gay or straight, black, white or Latino. Just give something and let us know you did it. The amount is not important. Let's get this thread to 25 pages.