Scoutfish

Great idea about the coup stick. There are a bunch of ribbons and they are a mess!

We even talked a little bit about having a "Dad Race". You know dads. They gotta "help" jr have the best car, rigfht? So we talked about maybe the dad can pay $15.00 to enter their own competition. It's for braging rights only - no trophy. 100% of the entry fee goes to the pack as a donation. Maybe even help pay for next years PWD trophies.

Oh, I know...it's coming! I just started thinking about it: We are a pack, meeting for a pack meeting for pack purposes. Why not carry the pack flag? Not gonna make the pack fold if we don't, but it would be cool to display it.

Well, here's the thing: I NEVER EVER said that all Dr's were quacks , nor did I say those who prescribe drugs for behavioral issues were quacks either. I know some kids who ought to have their meds upped. I know some who just need a person to actually stop and listen to them talk about their feelings. And as mentioned earlier in the thread, some kids just need to get out, get fresh air and be allowed to exercise instead of being expected to do nothing but look pretty when needed. I have seen too many kids who get introuble for just making noise or ...God Forbid, getting dirt on their shoes! Do they have play clothes and shoes? NOPE! Playing is too loud and "embarassing" to ..mom and dad. What would their socail network think if they saw the kids..GASP - are you ready for this - Playing and acting like ...kids? Now, I know some kids have hormone imbalances and other endocrine system issues. Nobody ever denied that at all. But to say that Dr's felt pressured to make people happy, who just happened top see a tv ad for a drug that will make their kid perfect...well, that is not what a Dr should do. Nowhere in medical school or in the Hypocratic Oath does it say do your best as a Dr ..unless mom and da really, really want you to do tis instead. I did spend quite a few years in the EMS field. No, not a Dr by any means, but we had people who would tell us we could do this or that when they called us. We told them" NO, This is how it works!" End of discussion. We did not cater to peoples whims or what they "thougfht" was needed. We did what we were trained to do, the way we were trained. PERIOD! Untrained people's opinions add up to exactly squat! Now, as mentuiomned earlier by Dean..I too have seen kids who parents forgot to give meds while camping for the weekend, Dad thought mom did it. Mom thought dad handled it. Turns out neither one did , but they couldn't tell because running around pllaying, chasing each other, playing tag and sometimes...sometimes just having unorganized, unchoreographed, and "nonusefull" fun play can do wonders. This is also after sopending a week of scholl where you sit in s class and listen to a teacher not exactly teach you to think, but to pass minimum standards on a national test. Under harsh flourescent lighting in new age plastic and composite environments. To say all Dr's are quacks or that all are medicating when not necessary is a far, far stretch of anything I ever said. But to say they are all perfect people with the best interest of their patients over their own wallets is just as ludicrous. Just like saying all troops and all parents do not ever put their own agenda ahead of the scouts, they never have adult run programs, nor do they run eagle mills. It's not right, it's not the majority, nor is it what we want,.........but it's out there and it happens. Just because that isn't what the program is supposed to be about, and just because the books don't suggest it does not mean it doesn't happen. Just like robbing banks - It's against the law, it's not supposed to happen, and it's definantly not honest...so why are there security cameras and guards? Why the high security safes? Because not everybody follows the rules, nor do they care. As far as proof, it seems like proof is in the eye of the beholder. I see one sided links that only support people's opinons, not hard facts. Even global warming is divided by "expert scientists" . Anybody in here can find the proof they want by searching hard enough , then pasting a link to that source. Proof does not exactly prove anything except which way you were already pre disposed to believe. Me. My proof is what I see with my own eyes. When a kid - who cannot make it through 3/4ths of a day without taking his medication....somehow makes it through the whole weekend without it..well. that is proof enough for me. Without being influenced by anybody's agenda. Again, I NEVER said all Drs, all medications or all kids. But as soon as we say that Dr's felt pressure to makes people happy because they saw an ad in a magazine or tv...then acted on it for that reason.....then the system went wrong!

"No large gifts since the mid 80's have been allowed." Banks are not alowd to be robbed , nor are false insurance claims. Likewise, cheating is not allowed in sports, or college academics. Guess that doesn't happen either. So the drugs are cheaper in Canada because why? You mean to tell me that when i open a magazine, and see a 3 page drug ad for product "X"....that the magazine ran that ad for free? In how many thousands of copies? Then add up all the different magazines, newpapers, newspaper fliers, internetads, etc.. for that same product - is all that free too? Tell me why a drug that should be prescribed by knowledgable Dr's is ever waved in front of a group of people who know nothing of that mdicine - especially particular indications, uses side efects or applications - just to make them happy? That is flat out ludicrous and stupid. The un trained public should not be suggesting to their dr's what drugs they need. If that's the case, screw the Dr's! I'll just let the ads tell me what i need for my condition. Oh wait! The Dr wants to make me happy instead of saying:"Sorry Mr Fisher, that drug isn't what you need. Instead, you should cut back on the sugars, caffiene and acidic foods and junk food you eat!" The Dr wants to make me happy while making the drug company happy. You can spell that with $$$$$$$$$$$$. WEll, gosh! How would the Dr ever seel enough of thatdrug then? Why does the drug compani spend bilions in ads for something I cannot prescribe? Like I said, there are great Dr's out there. But there are many more that are not! Facts? Read the papers. Watch the news. Just live in America. The same place where people are not allowed to take bribes or cheat or steal or kill, but do it every day. Just like Dr's get kickbacks! Maybe not you. I comend you for that. But please do not say that - because you do not - that none do. I will laugh so hard that I may need a drug to stop !

Okay, at the beginning of our pack meetings, we do colors. The particular den that has the honor of doing it, carries the United States Flag and the church flag in. They place them in the stands, we say the pledge and Cub Scout promise and motto. Also starting this year, the dens will sit in their own groups beside their den flag. So how about a pack flag too? We have one , we just don't use it. It pretty much stays in the closet for some reason. So would carrying the pack flag during colors be redundant, be tooting our own horn a bit, or just to much? Would it be wrong? Not meaning any disrespect, but since we are a non denominational group, would it be disrespectul if we didn't carry the church flag, but instead carried the pack flag along with the Stars and Stripes? I mean, we are not conductimng a church service at that time,and our pack is made up of several religons and denominations. But at the same time, I do not want to disrespect or offend the CO that is so gracious in chartering our pack as wellas letting us use the building as wellas the sanctuary for pack meetings. Okay, I realize that I am almost making a mountain out of a mole hill. But after finding a pack flag in our storage closet ( on a pole with a ton of award ribbons), I thought we ought to have it out at colors too.

> The damned down side to it is this: While there are many, many cases of Dr's trying to do what is best for kids and people in general...too many ( in which case I think even 1 is too many) Dr's will follow the $$$$ before they practice good medicine. Sure, there are legit Dr's out there, and as far I know, the one I see is one of the honest ones. He tries other things before writing a prescription even for Strep throat or even more common ailments. He gives you a full vist for $40.00. The next time he see's you, he asks how long X symtom tok to clear up and how are the kids. Unfortuneatly, too many Dr's are under the influence of all those drug co reps who droop off tons of samples and maybe tickets to a ball game or a set of golf clubs too. Mgazines and tv show ad after ad to the common person of drugs that have to be prescribed. Why show them to us? Because we will pre diagnose what we need to fix our ails and pressure the Dr to giving us that drug. The dr's who own their own offices will get kickbacks from the drug industry for this. Ever wonder why a $.05 pill costs $10.00 here but only $.05 in Canada or Europe? Cause we pay for all that advertising and the extras the Dr's get for using that particular brand or type of pill. So what do we have here? We have a situation where the majority of the doctors make the handfull of the good ones look bad. Kinda like politicians: There are some good ones who go to office to serve the people in afair and just way. You just can't see them for the other idiots!

My son got his Webelos book last year at his graduation ceremony. I assumed that you had a newer print version..or this years book. That's why I said what I said. Thinking that somebody mis-printed the info, as you still sometimes see Bobcat listed as a rank after Tiger on various on-line resources that are "supposedly" current. Kinda like the Tiger Cub Uniform guide that has the Wolf,Bear, and Webelos badge on it too! But I did point out as you did..the Bobcat badge has to be earned BEFORE the Tiger Badge(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Yes, No, maybe. There are a few ways to read into it, which, the book does not clearly state or explain. A Cub first becomes a Tiger by signing up at Tiger age, but has to earn Bobcat before earning the Tiger rank BADGE. That make sense? He is a Tiger, just hasn't earned Tiger badge yet...but has to earn Bobcat before any other rank. This also goes for boys who are first time joiners at Wolf, Bear and Webelos ages. If they have not earned Bobcat through a previous rank in scoutimng, they must earn Bobcat first. Thos book has a few mistakes in it.

"On poor families - How is it that they are so poor but show up at the campout with a new, large tent?" Don't forget Grandma & Grandpa power! The grandparents will slap down $100.00 for a tent a because Jr said.....that mom and dad said - the reason they couldn't go camping was that they didn't have a tent. But since grandma and grandpa didn't warn ( AKA ask) mom and dad. they are stuck going to a campout . They payed money that should have went somewhere else and slept in a tent that cost them 0.0$ Yes, that did happen at one of our pack campouts. Yes, they all had a great time. Yes, their home phone got cut off until next payday. Now for some personal perspective. I install garage doors for a living. I get paid piece work, which means I get a percentage of the job price. That's it. I do not make hourly wages, nor do I get a base commission. I average about $90.00 to install a 16 wide X7 tall garage door with a motor. That is with all the extra 130 mph hurricane bracing. It takes me 2 and 1/2 hours on average to do it. Unless I have to move material out of the way. or work in cramped conditions, or make a door fit on an old 1940's house which was not planned for a garage door. Point being, the pay is the same. The longer it takes, the less I make. If the job is not ready, or something is ordered wrong, homeowner forgets appointmemnt, job canceled, etc...I make $0. Maybe I install 4 16 X7's in a day and make $360.00 ...befor taxes, insurance, and all other deduction. Maybe it's just a crappy day, and I make $10.00 for driving time only. Now, maybe nobody noticed it, but the economu went to pieces a few years ago. Housing market crashed. Alot of builder and construction industry people lost their jobs. I saw people go from making over $50,000.00 a year to making $0 in a days time. Me, I do okay as I have been doing it for 15 years and will be the last one without work at my company..which went from 16 full time installers 3 years ago to 5 right now. Point is, stuff happens. We bought my wife a almost brand new( had 30,000 miles on it) 2008 PT Cruiser last year. Saved money and paid cash for it. Got the title a week later ( that was amazing too!) Right now, we can't spare the money to get the A/C fixed. The warranty is out because we racked up miles when I was battling cancer..which also eats into your savings. So, what I am getting at is that people look at the fact that we have a boat, a car, a truck, a van that is paid for...two dogs, 3 tents, a nice gas grill , 2 computers and wonder why I can't just go out to every council campout and scout weekend. Well, we had the monet when we bought uit, but then the economy snuck up on us and cancer gave us a fit and my money snuck off! WE have a policy in my pack: Every scout does his best to do his part. That could be selling popcorn, selling our two yearly fundraiser tickets, cleaning up pack and den meetings, helping serve food at B&G's or working a bit more while camping. Sometimes, we are probably getting taken, but it's our job to do what we do for the kids and not judge them based on how their parents act.

We do it a bit differently. We have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for each rank. Then we have overall grand champion. The cars are also judged as best of show and most creative. We have members of our Co - who do not have kids or relatives in the pack - to be judges. They are told that we want the cares judged based on the kids doing the most work. Usually, it's pretty obvious when a kid doesn't do much work. Especially when they see the car for the first time when it races. Now, we talked once about possibly creating an award for each kid, but then remembered that we are scouts and do not want to push the "Everybody is the best every time" theory. Life is tough. Life is hard. You don't always lose, but that doesn't mean you win too. Sometimes just being part of something bigger than you is the award and reward in itself. At the beginning of the PWD, we tell all the kids and parents too...that the whole point is to get together and have fun. We whoop and holler. We get excited, we can yell and cheer our cars on. We are there to have fun. If you win, it's just a bonus! If you don't win..who cares! You still had fun! And you know what..the boys seem happier than when it was about seeing what trophy or ribbon you got.

To me, at least, that is the same as: I think they are great comparisons. The worst of both possibly being the parents who have the kid participate because they are reliving thrie youth through the kids.

ScoutmythBuster. You originally asked what we would tink about a book on dispelling myths. I think it's a great idea still. But leave it at that! But the more I read of your posts, the more it sounds like you have a pre-disposed agenda against leadership or those who somehow are in charege. The above scenario is not in any way, shape of form deceatful. The leader in question simply said" Let just wait a bit." Now, I take that to mean: "Lets just wait." It does not tell me that there are any rules or requirements at issue here, nor does it say the Boy is not old enough, nor that there is a fee, that you have to wait an hour after eating, or anything else. Just that the leader wanted to wait. Kinda like when a kid asks a parent if they can do a particular activity during the upcoming weekend. The parent says : "Maybe, we'll see." The parent did not commit either way, but you know the kid...he heard: "Yes! We will absolutely , positively do that as soon as the weekend starts!" Why did he hear that? Because that is the answer he wanted or needed to hear. Now back to that mom...Maybe she wasn't paying close attention. Maybe she misunderstood him. Maybe she needed to hear that the only reason her son couldn't have a POR was because there just absolutely , positively hade to be any reason other than her son...as to why her son couldn't have that POR. But to even say the leader was deceitful, is creating a myth itself!

Okay, so I had my first pack meeting as a Cub Master. In my opinion, I thought I bombed it,. Talking to the COR, The ACM,and a few others, trhey thought I did pretty good for my first time. Matter of fact, the ACM explained that the first time and maybe the next time will teach me more than anything I can read in any book on hosting pack meetings. Anyways, I think my biggest problem was distinguishing between what the CC does and what the CM does. I was originaly planning on announcing stuff that - in hindsight - is stuff the CC would announce. Did I meantion that this year is the first year we had a real CC and committee? So, at the end, I presented a Cub Master minute. I told a story that I read right here in this site. Matter of fact, it was a ScoutMaster minute that Trevorum posted about the "poorly skilled " scout who was awarded the BSA medal of honor for saving a life. It went over really well with the crowd. I'm glad too as that story has always stuck with me since the day I read it. It didn't need any explanation other than what/where Philmont was to those who never heard of it. So I have already compiled about 6 more Cub Master minutes in my files for future meetings. I need more. The problem I have is that so many readily availablre Cub Master minutes are really Scout Master minutes that most likely will go over the Cubs heads. Some are skits and others are well. too sermonish to really be a Cub Master minute. I need them simple and light or risk the Cub Scouts eyes glazing over. Unfortunatly, I have not been in scouting long enough to gleen stories from my past experiences ...YET! So, any suggestions for a website or possibly a book that I could borrow or get inspiration from?

No not quacks, but theives and abusers. Granted,I am only a garage door installer, but when customers don't particularly like what I am telling them after inspecting an old/ dilapidated/ damaged/ recently hit garage door...I say: "I can tell you what you want to hear, or I can tell you the truth. The first one may cause momentary happiness, but then it will be gone. The second one will fix your problem and create long term happiness. You decide right now what you want me to tell you." Now, I have mentioned somewhere else in these forms at one time or another ..another thing that may cause children to ack out of whack sometimes in addition to lack of free time and recess ( which I agree with Dean): Soda. Candy. Food preservative. Sugar coated corn syrup sweet puffs cereal. Fast food. Grease. When I was young, our biggest vice was Kool-Aid. I bet I had a blue, or green or red mustache 3 years straight. Biggest worry was the sugar might rot your teeth out or you pooped funny colors! I think there were only 4 kinds of "sugar" cereals back then. Mom buying Frosted Flakes was a very big deal. Felt like Christmas or something! Maybe once a month..if we were good and deserved it...dad would take us to McDonalds or the local A&W/ bait shop for a root beer float. The rest of the time, it was milk, Kool-Aid, or water. Snacks were PB&J sandwhiches and sometimes a handfull of those cheap butter cookies that the stores sold under the store name. The rest of the time,it was homemade home cooked food. Cooked on the stove or oven. Mom spent 3 hours making something we scarfed down in 10 minutes. No instant this or that, nothing in the microwave. No preservatives. Well, at least not like now. Anybody remember the Jiffy-Pop popcorn that you held the aluminum pan over a burner to make popcorn? We did that maybe 4 times a year. Now my wife almost owns stock in Orville Redenbocker. Or ought to. Somewhere along the line..all those chemicals, hormones and preservatives can't be doing anybody any favors.

Yet Another Merlyn-Ed Thread LOL! I like that! I wonder too sometimes. Had a friend whose daughter was doing badly at school. The mom called a tutoring/ counseling service. They did an evaluation and recomended gouing to a particular Dr so that the kid could be drugged AND benefit more from the tutoring service. Turns out that once dad took away the tv, video games and made the daughter study....she started making honor roll. Back when I was young, I failed 4th grade. And in those days, you only failed once. The next year, they passed you automatically. So the first time in 4th grade, I just drew pictures and never did homework. I could pass test with blazing colors, just didn't do the classwork or homework. The next year, I drew pictures again becauuse I knew I was going to be passed anyways. Needless to say, mom and da were not happy. Well, come 5th grade, I was about to settle into my old habits again, but was interuppted by a xconcerned teacher who had me evaluated. Now, you have to remember, ADDH and ADD were not common or popular words for the average person. Matter of fact, as far as I was concerned, they didn't exist. You were either normal, "special" or lazy. Testing revealed that I had problems applying my knowledge and that maybe with $ome after $chool $ervice$, I could be brought back to the average level of applying my knowledge. MY dad became an instant Dr. He grounded me and did not let me play or watch tv until homework was done. Mom made sure my teaxcher sent home a list of all my assignments on a weekly basis. Would you believe that during that time, I was somehow cured of what might have been labeled ADD or ADDH? Would you believe that by the middle of my 5th grade year, I started making B and C honor roll. By 6th grade, I was on the A and A/B honor roll all the time. From 7th tghrough 10 grade, I was on the Academic Derby team and active "Quiz Bowl" member. I had more college credits through firefighting school that I had high school creditd by the time I quit mid year in 11trh grade and challenged and passed the high school graduate exam. Now, in hindsight, I wish I had stayed in school until regular graduatuion, but at the time, I was feeling mighty full of myself. My point being, I think too many people jump on the ADD and ADDH bandwagon and start passing out drugs to everybody. I notice that this trend is keeping pace with the "I am not responcible and I ought to sue somebody" trend! But do not take this to mean I don't believe ADD and ADDH are not real. I know they are. I just think some people want to take the easy way out. Shoot...that was my personal mission back in the 4th grade!

"So put as much lipstick on this pig as you like,..." Correct info and good points aside...YOU SCARE ME!

WEll, as it turns out, the COR went, Back in the day....way, ay back, he was CM for about 5 years and SM for our Co's Troop for 7. Great guy, traditional scouter. Always making sure we keep costs down, and knows every known fact that has anything to do with the United States Flag. So the pack meeting. How'd it turn out? Well, it was okay, nothing spectacular. I showed up 30 minutes early so i could make sure I was ready. Spent every minute of that 30 signing up new scouts and answering questions. Then 5 minutes before the meeting, the CC asks me if he can speak right after colors because he had to leave and do some Marine Corps stuff I said sure. Turns out that he talked about- was almost 90% of what I was going to talk about. I bent my brain trying to figure out how to fill up an hour. Yeah, I introoduced myself to those who didn't know me or my takeover as CM. I introduced all our leadership to anybody who didn't know. And had our Acm DO SOME SONGS AND DANCING. I thought I really bombed, but had several leaders tell me I did great. But you know, you also tell your 3 year old that the crayon scribble he made is the best drawing ever....... I also brought up Q&A for the new folks. I might have been the most at ease at that time.

Well, I'm only in Cubs, not BOY scouts, but I'm thinking youn should write a book. Call it "Scouting dummies guide to the real rules" or "BSA Mythbusters" ..etc. First state the myth, then the truth and how it got skewered. You will probably retire with million$ in about 2 years!

I weld. Well, I used to weld alot. Tig, Mig , but mostly arc welding with rods. I always had a pair of regular vice grips as well as flat clamping vise grips. My problem is twofold: 1) You ever stick those vice grips in your back pocket out of habit after welding a couple pieces of 3/8 steel together? Or after using an acetylene torch? Happens more than you think! The gloves I have are nice insulated leather gloves, The biggest that National Welders sold. Size xx large. They are snug. I have big hands. (also why the occasional extra letter appears in my posts- I hit two keys at one quite often!) So I'm leaning towards the lifting tool as I won't put it in my pocket out of habit ( I use grips all day long instaling garage doors). Maybe it won't fit with that tab sticking out.

WELCOME to the site! This a great palce where you get all kinds of insight and advice. It varies a much as the name of the people who write it, but it's all great! Became a CubMaster myself a few days over 3 months ago.

That is a great war story. Your gonna get laughs from that one for a long time. As long as she doesn't make a habit of it, that is!

Yeah, I gonna see if our CC, COR or another committee member will go. I did have a bunch of sheets printed up that list out CO, location, what nights and time we meet and list me as Cub Master and my contact #. I handed them out last time and will pass them out next time too. I will give my rep some to pass out tommorrow.

Yeah, I decided to go to the pack meeting. Like I said, those are the guys and gals who arlready invested time, money and a good part of their lives to our pack already. I am also taking into consideration that the school scheduled for tommorrow also serves a good size portion of an area that a brand new pack was created for. That and we already have 80 registered scouts in our pack. Losing a potential scout or two might be a good thing.

See....Now I am having second thoughts again. At the pack meeting, we do have an ACM who will stand up and sign, dance and get the kids all excited. He's been in scouting for a long, long time. So the pack is in capable hands. At our sign ups, the DE pretty much runs the show. He signs, dances, teaches a song or two - then steps aside to let us introduce ourselves, talk about our pack, etc... There will be at least 3 if not 4 packs recruiting from this crowd. So now I am thinking that the pack we have is there..they are in. The pack is not hanging on a thread waiting for ONLY me to save it!