Scoutfish

MARS EXPLORATION! PEOPLE ON MARS! Really now... Did I not plainly say that NASA has brougght about grea stuff and has benefitted us, But NOT exploring MARS! That is stupid and totally un practical. We will never live there, could not afford to send people there and the logistics of it are insane!. Any penny spent on Mars is a joke!

I think NASA does great stuff. Lots of technology came about because of NASA. But Mars exploration? Come on! Does anybody seriously expect going to Mars to be possible or practical? Even if man make it to Mars..how long will it take? How many decades? How much food would it take for just a crew of 3? How much fuel, oxygen and life support? Why even go? Is even considering putting a colony on Mars plausible? If the earth was in danger of burning out...would sending people to the moon or Mars even be an idea to bother with? Would it truely be worth considering? If people want to daydream...that's fine, but look at the budget crises America is in right now. Where does Mars really fit in on a scale of necessary things to sink billions of dollars in in a given year?

So I read the headline today: Associated Press Obama: US to Mars within his lifetime. WOW! Is anybody as excited as I am? What a total and complete waste of taxpayer money! Now look...I am a fan of science and I am a fan of learning. I'm also a fan of l;earning more science. But seriously...what benefit will "one day hopefully" reaching Mars provide? Right now, we know that there is a "pretty good chance" that there "used to be" water on Mars, but we don't know for sure. So lets spend a couple billion each quarter and maybe, if we spend even more..one day we MIGHT find out. But then what? Right now, we don't go to the moon. It's not practical either. Why would it be? Any of ytou plan on moving to the moon? Plan on a colony anytime soon? Nah... me either. Wouldn't be practical! Sure, NASA has put satelights for communication, weather and mapography/topography info for the world to use, as well as military uses...all great, practical, and needed. I think we need to drop the big money sucking hole of exploring Jupiter, Mars,and honestly..the moon! Yep, even the moon. Can we justify it in these economic times? What have we found out by going to the moon that actually has real practical value? Now, this is not a crack at the Obama administration by any means. I have had an issue with space exploration since I read about the expense of Hubble. Yeah, it is interesting to see what happens far far away. It did send some cool pictures. It did make for great reading. But it still wasn't practical to spend that kind of money on something that isn't making a difference to us at all. Just my rant for now.

LOL! THat's a typical boy for you! Rocks, sticks, whatever they can get their hands on. It's always fun and games until the get hurt. And they will remember it until the next time, in which case they forget as soon as the first rock or stick is picked up/ About the G2SS , Sure, those things can earn you a beltlop and pin, but some of them are appropriate only at camps or council events. Some things are okay for one age group, but not a younger group. CANOEINg is a big one: That one is only "supposed" to be held at council or district level events. As far as the kid goes, take him to task: If he doesn't care if he has to sit out...make him sit out. The main thing is..show him that he will be expected to act like all the other scouts, but likewise, treat him that way too. I have one kid that is in our den who is a ADHD kid. His meds wear off just about 30 mins before our meetings. Well, I discovered that if you just shove him in the crowd and talk...you'll lose him fast, but talk directly to him every now and then...you will have his attention the whole time. After teaching knots, He was the first one I assisted. Once he "got" that first knot, he was good to go.Then I assisted the next kid.

Tonight, our den and a few other dens, as well as packs and troops from the Cape Fear Council attended a welcoming home ceremony for WWII veterans. The Veterans were the Inaugral Honor Flight. WWII veterans are flown to Washington DC at no expecnse of their own, to visit the WWII Memorial, then flown home later that day. It costs about $50,000 per trip per plane. Anyways, alot of Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, what I guessed to be a Sea Base Venture crew ( that make sense?) , JROTC, Nam Knights, members and color guards from each military branch as well as hundreds of the public came to welcome them home. We (our den) were just right inside the entrance as the vets departed the jet. Well, we had cameras to take photos of out vets as well as all the scouts and the crowd. It was funny to see the vets taking pictures of us to. At one point, I was saluting with my best adult leader scout salute, and a veteran took my picture. He then said he was honored and thanked me. At that point, I asid : " NO SIR! The honor is all mine, and I thank you!....Welcome back home!" Then I shook his hand. Well, he thanked me and let a few tears fall. I bet I shook hands with at least 50 veterans tonight. Every single one was truely and honestly touched by the outpouring and caring of all who attended. I am especially proud of our cub scouts. While waiting for the flight to arrive, the boys ( being boys) were figgity and restless. But as soon as those doors opened .. Those scouts gave their best scout salutes with their right hands, and held their American flags with their left hands....all the while cheering, and saying thank you, USA , and Welcome Home! So far, I have had a great time in the Cub Scouts. Tonight, I just got my first paycheck!

Acco.. I have a loud and stern voice . Matter of fact, my wife says it's loud and stern even when I don'tmean for it to be. Nothing wrong with your actions at all..at least, not that I see. But you didn't also tell the to go home, suspend them and threaten to kick them out because you felt disrespected either. Me, I'm only in Cubs scouts. I'm just about willing to bet that a Cub Scout leader has to talk louder and sterner more often than a Boy Scout leader does, although when the Boy Scouter does it, it's for more serious reasons!

While not taking either side on wether the Army or any other military branch should or should not support BSA...I think they could - under using such support as advertising and recruitment. Meaning that by sponsoring an event of the magnatude of Jamboree, they are showiug a ton of boys a glimps of military life and all kinds of "Cool stuff" that may sway some of those scouts into joining the military. Take air shows for example. Yeah, the pilots get to polish their egos and alot of brass gets to hold boasting rights. But the biggets payoff for hosting a air show ( which isn't cheap at all) is the potential future recruits. Look at the movies: Heatbreak Ridge, Top Gun, Firebirds, GI Jane,that one with Kevin Costner in the USCG( can't remember the name) , and Hunt for Red October. Great movies that the government was glad to help out with. Why? Well...look at Top Gun... I remember reading that the Navy had it's biggest ever boost in numbers of new recruits since WWII after that movie came out. Again, not saying the Army should or should not suport BSA or hold Jambo there any more, but saying they might just do it anyway every now and then ( or at least want to) and could easily say that it's an advertisement and recruiting campain. And who could argue that?

COOL! This is along the lines of what I meant. Specifically, I was thinking along the lines of : "but it does give the board a way to understand what must be done and to assist the Scout in doing it". Especially the part stating : " ....to assist the Scout in doing it." Now, as I stated, I have no experience in Boy Scoutuing what so ever( other than knowing a guy who was in it , way way back when). But Review was the part I was wondering about. I wasn't challenging how it DOES work, but questioning how I thought it SHOULD work in my unexperienced eye. THanks for the link. I copied and pasted it to my favorites bar and doccuments.

I suck at this question stuff! LOL! Let me try this again: In the original post that this thread was spun from... The mom wrote about how a CC was pretty up[set about being disrespected by a scout. At one point,it almost came to the CC becoming a "Sole arbitor of deciding disrespect" . So anyways, we read what the mom wrote. But what if the CC wrote a letter about the scout disrespecting him and asked us what we thought he should do to puish him? I realize that some of you may in fact be posting exactly what you would say to THAT CC. But I just want to be sure that I clarify that I DO NOT mean to imply that I demand the respect.. or as a matter of fact, I want to clarify that this does not involve me in any way other than ME asking how you would respond.

THanks Everybody! Reading the answers, I'm thinking I was a bit to vaugue or I didn't quite explain myself too well. I'm shocked that happened! LOL! Oak Tree, you actually answered my question..at least gave the TYPE of answer I was looking for even thought I wasn't expecting a specific answer. I do not want to take the training that would enable me to teach this stuff while at the same time being sanctioned by BSA on a coucil or distric level.. Maybe one day I will after having had 7 or 8 years experinece under my belt.But right now, I do not want to INTENTIONALLY dance in any gray areas! I was wondering if and how it could be possible though. Actually, everybody gave great answers that I will save for future reference though. John, Thabks! If I decide it would be great for my den to do a particular activity...even though I can't do it, I see what path to take THROUGH council to still have that activity without having to specifically go to a camp.

David, Somewhere you got on a different page. Nobody that I have seen so far , has said anything about leaving the CO. In every instance mentioned, the CO was the one who dropped the unit. Not vice versa. Now, the CO might decide to keep the number, but the scouts and leaders are free to do what they want. The CO disbanded any ties or relationships to them. Never was it sauid that the leaders were just tird of teh Co, had a disagreement with the Co or wanted to follow a different program than the Co. THe CO decided ( for some reason) that chartering a scout unit was no longer worthwhile. It may be justified, it may be worthwhile or it may be simple lack of interest. But one thing is clear..the scouts and leaders are free to do as they wish.

Yeah, that's the ideal thing...fill one out no matter what. We fill one out for a family pack campout on an approved site and less than 20 minutes(28 miles) from our home base. Do we have to? It really doesn't matter because we are gonna fill it out anyways.Even if it isn't required, it does act as a "planning list" of who is the Baloo trained, our 2 deep. out YTP, and so on and so an. It makes sure we have everything in place before we go. Think of it as a pre flight check list...after years of flying, you know what needs to be what. That list just puts the final crosses on the "T's" and dots the "I's".

They did have the final say! They said : "We don't want you no more!" At that point, all the adult leaders and scouts are on their own. The CO dumped them and gave up ownership of the unit.Once you abandon something..it's no longer yours nor does it have any obligation to you! At the very least...when the CO told the scouts that they were no longer useful to the CO.... the scouts do not have to take the CO's feelings, wants or cares into consideration. Pretty much the CO is saying you are no loger useful, and we are abandoning you, but we hope you still consider our wants and needs. Not me. I'm going CO shopping!

Scouterclaude, You are WRONG...ISH You yourself qouted G2SS: "...Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents.. Please define what Home Base means to you and if in fact any time your Pack goes anywhere other than you current meeting location you in fact need a Tour Permit.">>> BUT G2SS says :>>> in-town den trips of a few hours ( and naturally less ) do not require a tour permit;">>> NOT anything outside home base. So the question begs...how big is your town? My town... don't blink if you are doing 60mph or you will miss half of it. The next town over....takes you an hour just to get through it. So maybe in my town,I can drive 3 towns over / still be within a couple hours of my home base , no permit , right? Maybe in your town, you can drive for 3 hours and still be in one police district.And still need a permit for a local area, no? again, RECOMMENDED, not required. Now, If I am going within 500 miles.....I might still be out of state as I cross that line at 250-300 miles. And I will have permission slips anyways if for no other reason,I have a head count and a good idea of how many scouts to plan for, worry about feeding and misc supplies, correct number of adults, etc... (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I can'timagine it would be any different than women in Kuwait/ Afghanistan / Itag or any other Islamic country that thinks women should be behind men, out of sight, uneducated and sub serviant. Couldn't be much different how we acted to our Navajo soldiers during WWI, our ANMERICAN citizens soldierr of Asian persuasion during WWII or any other non caucasion American soldier's treatment by us. Thing is, we didn't suddenly drop women during Iraq or Kuwait. Besides that, since I don't see us outlawing homosexuality in general every days laws, then that signifies to those countries that America is generally okay with it. Add in that those soldier won't have pink cammies or BDU, not have a sexual oriented unit patch ot what not, I can't see how thosr guys could tell who is who.

Yeah, some positions do have the respect already. Takea SM or CM for example. I'd assume that the person has a certain amout of respect due because they are in that position. But at the same time, if the only reason they are in that position is politics, popularity or butt kissing, they they themselves wil; surely lose the respct of the "office". That make sense? My boss has my respect as he is my boss. But he also has it because he truely earned the right to be there through knowledge, experience and hard work. HIs replacement will start out with the same respect too due to the "office" held. but that replacement could wquickly loose that respect if it turns out he got the position due to friendship, nepitism( I spell that right?) or playing good ole boys politics. If the replacement is a total idiot who does not know the job, he couldn't lose respect faster if he tried!

Correct me if I am wrong, and I do not mean to be only "technical" about it, but isn't the whole point of "review" being to go over stuff? If it comes down to a scout being absolutely done, finished and having met all of "X" requirements..wouldn't that be a "checkoff board" instead of a board of review? And in that same case, couldn't a SM or ASM do the same job and just sign off the paperwork as is? Granted,I have not one minute in Boy Scouts, but some day I might. Hopefully my son will. I am trying to learn this stuff either way. It would seem to me that a BOR would be a place to talk to a scout about what he has achieved so far, what he hasn't,and recommendations about what direction he might want to put more or less emphasis on and then checking back in at a later date to see how he is progressing. I mean, point blank..if you wait til he has done everything..including crossing all his "T's" and dotting all his "I's"...then it's not "reviewing" it's just "finishing". Besides that, if the scout has shown that he can do all that without ANY guidance from a BOR, it seems that the BOR has just outlived it's justifiable need to exist. Not trying to be insulting , mind you, but making an honest observation. Please feel free to correct any and all misunderstandings I have. I encourage it!

David, Thing is this: While I am positive that your case is a part of a very , very small and far and few in between exception..I can imagine that the all too often reality is this: A CO has decided that they are going to dump a bunch of kids and the program that went with them in the trash. They don't care if the unit finds another CO or not. Basically, it's like breaking up with a girlfriend....who cares what she does..you are done with her! Good luck and good bye! Hasta la Vista baby! Just saying, when the CO suddenly decided on ( what appears to be a yearly whim) dropping a unit..there doesn't seem to be much concern for all the time, hard work and volunteering that went on by the leaders . That's not even counting the kids. Basically, the Co is saying: We don't care about you any more. If they hold onto the unit #'s issued by council..they are doing so for spite! So your unit did an honorable thing. That's awesome, but don't expect to see that as a common occurance.

kay, if you look in the G2SS you have a nice fancy chart showing what is considered council or distric events only. Or rather, stuff that can't be held at the pack/ troop level. But how about having the council or distric sanction the event? Now, this is just a hypothetical situation, so the exact details are more for you to just assume have all been worked out. Lets say my pack wanted to teach canoeing in a big ole pond on a private property that my pack just happened to be having a pack family campout on. Or maybe archery or BB guns, sling shots, flat water rowing. NOw I am not, nor do I want to go through a NRA rifle instructor couse or do all that is necessary to be compatable..but supposing I did- could my council or distric consider that event at my campout to be an allowable event? Better yet, if I met all safety requiremnts and could show BSA, my council or district that all the proper things were in place..could they consider it a sanctionable event? NO, I do not have plans to do this. Just my mind wondering. Basically, define sanctioned. If council is okay with you doing something at a troop or pack event...would that not make it sanctioned? Again, I do not have any covert plans or ideas to do something I shouldn't...I'm just asking for curiousity's sake. That and maybe even as more justification to not do something we shouldn't do..in the future..IF it comes up that is! But since I brought it up, and I have NO IDEA of what is involved.....how hard would it be to be certified to be able to teach BB gun shooting? I'm only asking because I am under the impression that there is quite a bit to do to be able to do it.

Another thing to consider... Filling out a tour permit when it's not needed is alot better than not filling one out when you should have. If nothing else, filling out the tour permit also serves as a pre trip check list too. You know you have the right people in place when filling it out.

Home base could be your meeting place..wether a specific building, a public area, or even your town. While BSA has set and established pretty much all the rules and guidelines...local councils may stiffen SOME requirements as they see fit or feel the need to do. Just realize this isn't about control so much as implimenting extra safety precautions for the kids as well as adult leaders. WEll, not really. G2SS sets the minimum standards. Insurance is what kicks in when something happens despite following G2SS.

Gern, Then lets just say that BSA is NOT excluding athiests or gays, but instead - BSA is just targeting it's services to God believeing heterosexuals. Well, we are good to go now! I guess it's time to tell all the courts to toss out all the lawsuits and tell Merlyn it's time to chase after somebody else...right? Problem is that patient cinfidentiality say they cannot even tell your husband unless he IS THE patient, which he is not. But let's follow that logic shall we: The clinic still does not offer any treatment to the husband ( AKA men), They would only be explaining treatment options that the wife ( AKA a woman) could/is recieving. The man himself cannot get or recieve any treatment. Again, following that example. we do not have to actually allow anybody into scouting that isn't our "TARGET POPULATION" . All we have to do is tell them about what the scouts are doing. BTW, I think the military ban on gays is just flat out stupid. I have yet to see any reason why sexual orientation should/could/would affect ability to fight in a war.

Yeah, That's exactly what I meant! Some positions kinda already have the respect, but you can loose it quickly by your attitude and actions.

Well....It could be a buck-toothed hermit crab.

John, Re-read my post. I did not in any way condone anything remotely close to corporal punishmemnt. What I did say was if you took the mother's post, but read it as if the Adult leader/ SM/CC/M/DL or whoever you want it to be wrote it ... Then it would come out sounding like: "How do I MAKE scouts respect me, and how do I punish them if they don't?" See. the mother wrote about a son being disciplined for not respecting an adult leader. But what if THAT adult leader wrote that same letting and asked: "How do I MAKE scouts respect me, and how do I punish them if they don't?" How differently would we have replied to him? What would we have said to him? Would we have even said anything at all other than to take him to task right then and there and tell him to get his egotistical head out of his butt? Would we pointed outtrhe power trip he was going on and let him know that he absolutely had missed the whole point of the program? John , Like I said, we gave the mom some pretty good suggestions and laid out our thoughts..but how differentluy would we have acted if HE asked us the same thing?