Rick_in_CA

The problem with swimming at the beach is (emphases are mine): How do you rope off areas in the surf??? When I asked the council about how to deal with those requirements at the beach, the answer was "you can't".

Our cub pack usually leaves three day weekends alone, with the exception of Memorial Day, when we place flags on the graves of veterans at a local veterans cemetery.

I agree wholeheartedly with this! The BSA was created to be the American version of scouting, reflecting American values. It's why William D. Boyce directed that the BSA "was open to all boys, regardless of race or creed". We live in a country that claims to be open to all, regardless of race, religious faith, national origin, etc. The BSA should be too.

There are ordained Unitarian ministers that are atheists. I have met devout Buddhists that call themselves atheists, yet we have Buddhists military chaplains. So no, it isn't ridiculous or absurd to have explicitly atheist chaplains as we have them already in the US military. And yes, not all Buddhists are atheists. It is a rich and diverse faith tradition. The word "atheism" covers many modes of thought and belief. Too many people narrowly define it as the loud mouth in the corner shouting at people: "If you believe in God, you are an idiot!". That's like defining all Baptists by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Maybe because the damage caused by raising children in miserable, abusive, hateful homes can be worse? Sometimes divorce is the best of a bad set of options.

You guys are right about the importance of community in helping families stay together. However the biggest drivers in dismantling our neighborhood communities were economic (NOT the selfishness of the "Me generation"). Stosh hit it on the head when he pointed out "mobility". Fifty years ago Dad probably had a job with a pension, and a reasonable expectation that he would work at the same place till he retired. Mom was probably a stay-at-home Mom who was active in various official and unofficial community based groups (PTA, volunteering at the local school, den mother, church, etc.). They got to know all their neighbors because the neighbors were involved with the same activities, their children played together, and the neighbors didn't change too often. Now days, companies treat employees as commodities, they lay them off at the drop of the hat. Pensions are gone. Both parents often need to work full time. If you stay more than ten years with the same company that is very unusual. I've had managers say they won't hire someone that doesn't change jobs every five years because that shows they "don't have any drive". I've been living at my current home for six years. I only have one neighbor that was here when I moved in. Every other place has turned over at least once (a couple twice). Also the kids don't play with the neighbor kids anymore. They instead are driven by their parents to scheduled activities, and "play dates" with the children of the parent's friends. So another mechanism by which we got to know our neighbors is gone (you are going to play over at Billy's house? I better get to know his parents.).

Our council uses the camp cards as Scout-O-Rama tickets.

I was commenting on the idea that the registered sex offender lists are a problem. NOT the idea that this offender was some sort of misunderstood victim.

If you plan on doing any cooking on camp stoves, non-stick is a bad idea. Small camp stoves tend to produce hot spots on cookware, and if Teflon gets too hot, that is bad. For a decent mess kit cheap, look for US Army mess kits at surplus stores.

I doubt the ACLU would waste their time when they have real tyranny to fight against: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/negreet-high-louisiana-christianity-order

jc2008 wrote: How does our Council still give us camp cards to sell if no Scout Accounts? If you read the BSA presentation on camp cards found at: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/Camp_Card_Presentation-National_Meeting.pdf You will see this section: Private Benefit Considerations Councils should make sure that any sales materials, instructions, and support information do not make reference to individual scouts earning money for their own participation in Scouting activities. When the council is remitting proceeds, from any sale, back to units, provide guidance on distribution of funds. Encourage units to develop fund distribution plans that include other criteria than sale of items. These might include: 1. Participation in the camp card sale 2. Participation in the program 3. Leadership 4. Scout Spirit 5. Advancement A portion of the proceeds from any sale or activity should be set aside for general unit expenses and could include funds used for assistance to members with financial need.

"I'm going to delete this topic next week, since its a bit personal and I don't want it google-able." A bit of advice. Never post something to a public forum that you don't want to be "google-able". You can delete it, but it will never really go away.

I've found a few places that sell reproduction M1911 campaign hats (rather pricy though). Does anyone know if the early BSA campaign hats were the same as the military ones? I think the soft campaign hats are much more functional than the stiff - need a hat press - campaign hats of today. I'm a scouter, not a DI.

One of the problems with the no-phones policy is that they aren't just phones anymore. We have several families in our pack where the only camera they own are in their phones. Is it OK for the scouts to want to take photos of the fun they are having? Then they need access to their "phones". I was told about a scout in a troop that had a dozen nature and history books on his phone and used them to identify plants, animals and read up on the history of the area they are in. When you say "no-phones", to many scouts you are also saying "no cameras" and to some "no books". Like any tool, cell phones can be used improperly. I think the trick is to find a balance, not just say "no". What that balance is depends on your unit and scouts.

jblack47: Correct about the trenches of WW1. However, my understanding is that the US Army didn't have steel helmets until the troops arrived in Europe (that being the M1917 Helmet - and I understand to troops only in Europe). In fact, the Army bought the first helmets from the British (the M1917 is a copy of the British Brodie helmet which was designed in 1915). The US only started manufacturing the M1917 in enough quantities to issue them to troops in 1918. Note, it was the switch to helmets in Europe that caused the switch from campaign hats to overseas caps because it was easy to store when wearing the helmet. Outside of the trenches of Europe, the campaign hat still ruled (in addition to the punitive expedition, look at the photos of the "Banana Wars" and you will still see lots of campaign hats. OK, many of those troops are actually US Marines, not US Army - but you will see mostly hats, not helmets). Some interesting photos from the 1918 Siberian Expedition: The first clearly shows campaign hats, the second I'm not so sure: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/American_troops_in_Vladivostok_1918_HD-SN-99-02013.JPEG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:31st_Infantry_in_the_field_near_Vladivostok.jpg I love this history stuff!

"He violates the the scout and religious definition the promise is based on to be morally straight." You do know that the BSA is NOT a conservative Christian only organization, but one that welcomes people of all faiths? That a part of "A Scout is Reverent" is showing respect for people with different faiths than yours (including those that do not consider being gay a sin)? Perhaps if the Scout Law is so difficult for you to follow, you should consider a different organization than the BSA (perhaps Trail Life as they are Christian only)?

Personally I hope any amendment written like this would fail. It's unfair to all the other non-profits. Either change it for all of them, or none of them.

Actually you do see the campaign hat in the field. Go look at photographs from the Punitive Expedition into Mexico. You will see lots of campaign hats.

I agree with Old Eagle. It doesn't matter if you are in uniform or not, if it's a scout function and youth are participating then it's against BSA policy. jblake: great phrase! I'm going to steal it!

I just watched the Disney film "Follow Me, Boys!" Most of the film is set in the 30s and 40s, and you see lots of campaign hats. What is interesting is that are all kind of floppy and look crushable. I wonder if those were original BSA hats? The film was made in the mid 60s, so the original hats would probably be pretty easy to find.

So if the ban on gay leaders is in violation of my religious beliefs, and I believe it's incompatible with the Scout Law and BSA's stated position of "completely nonsectarian", I should be quiet and just go away? Way to live "A Scout is Reverent". If you don't want to be in a completely nonsectarian group like the BSA, you can move to Trail Life or some such group that isn't (see I too can say if you don't agree with me, go away - see how productive that is?).