Rick_in_CA

Unfortunately, that may have already happened. At my last college reunion, I was with a group of alums and university folks, one of which worked in the admissions office. She said that mentioning you were an Eagle Scout on the application was a negative because of the association with bigotry. She recommended leaving any reference to the BSA off any application. Very sad. I didn't follow up, so I don't know if she was just giving her personal opinion, or the official opinion of the admissions office.

What on earth do you think the Dale case was? Before then, the largest single group of charter partners were public schools, not any more. How is that for transformational? The US military used to be something like the sixth (I can't remember at the moment) largest group of COs, now it's zero. How is that for transformational? When I was a kid and a boy scout, the BSA was primarily a patriotic organization, then it got hijacked by the right-wing. That was transformational! Before Dale being gay or not was a unit issue, then the BSA chose to make it a national one. How many public school and military units did we loose? So a group forced transformational change to the BSA in the 90s (I don't remember any surveys or votes on the change - just national imposing it) and that was OK? But try to change it back to what it should be and it's "how dare you!" or "you have no right!" and "you hate the BSA and are trying to destroy it!". Really? I'm sorry, but that all sounds pretty disingenuous to me. I agree the BSA shouldn't be a political weapon. Unfortunately in the 90s the right chose to make it one, and we are stuck dealing with that.

But it is the place for right wing idea-logs to promote their agenda? Why is that?

I agree that this is a very interesting result. I would really like to see the actual question (or questions) asked that produced this result. Any one know where these questions can be found? Unfortunately I have seen even professional pollsters produce bad questions that skewed the results of surveys. Especially when they are outsiders trying to ask questions about processes and or institutions they are not familiar with. I hope that isn't what happened here.

Of course it's bigotry. Unfortunately it's a rather common one. Many of those same moms would happily send their teenage boys into the wilderness for ten days with two strait female leaders.

I agree this will be huge, but only if it passes. We still have the vote in May and I hear this is not a done deal. The conservatives are putting on a full court press to stop it. They did a much better job of getting people on their side to get involved and fill out the survey, send letters and emails, etc.. I saw flyers passed out at round table for example. I didn't see any flyers or emails from the progressive side. I thought about handing out a flyer at round table making sure people knew about the survey, but decided it wasn't appropriate. Maybe I was wrong and I should have.

I agree, a completely absurd resolution. Written by total cowards. Why not give the delegates a resolution worth voting on? Maybe because they knew it would pass and anger the conservatives? I was afraid that the resolution would be a complete cop out. Cowards.

I think some people are misunderstanding my question. I am actually asking a question. I have had several discussions with scouters about the nonsectarian stance of the BSA, and had several scouters tell me that the BSA is a Christian organization, and that nonsectarian means the same as nondenominational. I understand even the BSA's Religious Relationships Committee referred to the BSA as a Christian ecumenical organization (in a letter to the UUA back in the late 90s). This differs from my understanding of what a nonsectarian BSA is. So I am asking, what does "nonsectarian" (in the BSA context) mean to you?

Very true, but what does that have to do with Buddhism being atheist? Nothing. Or are you arguing that because Buddhism is about spirituality, faith, etc., it can’t be atheist? That is not what the word “atheist†means.

I disagree that "atheism is more often anti-theism". The "in your face" anti-theists just get the most press. Most atheist are like most people, just interested in getting along without a lot of fuss. An atheist that calls a scout that believes in God a fool, is just as bad as a Christian that tells a Hindu scout that he is going to hell (something I have witnessed an adult scouting doing). Both are showing disrespect for someone of a different faith, and are behaving in a non-scout like and unacceptable way.

A question for everyone (I’d start a new pole on this if I could): The BSA’s bylaws state that the BSA is “completely nonsectarianâ€Â. What does that mean to you: A) People of all religious faiths are equally welcome, and the BSA shouldn’t favor on faith over another. B) The BSA is primarily a Christian organization and it’s core beliefs are based on Christian values. Others may join, but they must conform to those values.

Actually it was the BSA in front of the supreme court that said that the rule applies to both youth and adults. It was later that thy tried to spin it by saying "leaders only".

I'm going to echo the calls here to dump vBulletin 5 and either try vBulletin 4 (which I believe Terry got with the vB5 beta), or try a different software entirely. Do any of the users here have experience with other packages that can give recommendations to Terry? Has anyone any experience with migrating a vBulletin site to one of these packages? How about rolling a vB5 site back to vB4 (does vBulletin provide support for that? Or do they just say sorry, restore to the backup)? Unfortunately, I have no experience with vBulletin or other forum software as anything other than a user. Remember, this is a labor of love by Terry, and I think we should give him any help we can.

This is not directly on topic, but as we can't create new topics yet, I thought this was a good place to put it. It looks like some Republicans lawmakers in N.C. really don't believe in the fundamental American value of Freedom of Religion. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/03/17584491-first-amendment-doesnt-apply-here-nc-lawmakers-push-bill-for-state-religion Perhaps if in their youth they were part of a patriotic program that help instill a respect for American values, they wouldn't be this un-American. Like the BSA? Unfortunately the right has tried to move the BSA away from the American values of non-sectarianism and freedom of religion to a conservative Christian world view. The N.C. lawmakers are simply part of the same movement. It's bad for our country, and bad for the BSA. Hence the current fight. And I wonder how many of the people that are screaming about the BSA letting in gays, would look at the above and ask "what is the big deal?". Hopefully only a few, but I am ready to be disappointed.

That should have been: "force their values on unit B over there even though they DON"T agree with them." I wish we could edit our posts.