RememberSchiff

Camp Augustine near Grand Island, Nebraska has tornado shelters. They were built back in the 80's in the aftermath of tornado destruction. The nearby Girl Scout Camp Cosmopolitan does as well. Both camps have shelters built into hillsides.

The Omaha World Herald http://www.omaha.com/ has detailed coverage including several eyewitness text accounts, a log of update reports from yesterday, and a gripping 14 sec video of tornado - you hear the warning siren and 'There ain't no scouts up there.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25107608/ LITTLE SIOUX, Iowa - An apparent tornado struck a Boy Scout camp in western Iowa on Wednesday, and local media reported four deaths at the camp, as well as many injuries. A dispatch operator with the Harrison County Sheriff's Office said first responders were at the camp site and more were en route to the camp, located about one hour north of Omaha. Arli Hasbrouck, a spokeswoman for the Boy Scouts of America's Mid-American Council in Omaha, confirmed for the Des Moines Register that four Scouts were killed in the tornado, but she had no numbers of how many were injured. "That's all we know at this point," she told the Register. "We've got lots of Scouters on their way to help." Terry Landsvork, a meteorologist in Valley, Neb., said law enforcement officials had called the weather service Wednesday evening and reported the deaths and injuries at the Little Sioux Scout Ranch in Iowa's Loess Hills. "Last we heard, hospitals in Omaha had an alert for 40 inbound injuries," Landsvork said. David Hunt, chairman of the Mid-America Boy Scout Council's Goldenrod District, which covers several eastern Nebraska counties, said the camp was hosting a leadership development course for boys. Hunt said he didn't know specifically where the boys were from but thought they would have come from eastern Nebraska and western Iowa. The 1,800-acre ranch is about 15 minutes east of Interstate 29, near Little Sioux. Its amenities include hiking trails through narrow valleys and over steep hills, a 15-acre lake and a rifle range. The tornado touched down as Iowa's eastern half grappled with flood conditions in several of its major cities. The storm threatened to stretch Iowa's emergency response teams even further. A meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Omaha also told the Des Moines Register that the tornado went through at about 6:35 p.m., about 12 minutes after the warning went out. This breaking news story will be updated.

Hi AhoyDave. Here are some changes I would like to see, I would be interested in your take. Make scout advancement and leadership tracks separate again (as they used to be!). It's great that scouting teaching leadership skills but not all scouts will be or can be leaders. This can be particularly hard for autistic scouts who have difficulty staying on task and making eye contact, but it can also be hard for neuro-typicals too. "But Leaderhip Development is a method of Scouting", yeah so is Uniform and uniforms are optional. As you note, require that a parent of a special need scout be a registered "one scout" leader who is only responsible to deliver the program to his scout. He or she will not have other special need scouts dumped on them, similarly, other leaders will not have special needs scouts dumped on them WITHOUT that "one scout" parent leader being present. Also "one scout" leaders will not be part of a leader headcount for two-deep leadership etc. It is definitely true, that a special needs scout needs a "champion" in Scouting just as he needs an "advocate" in the school system. The disabled do not need to be reminded at every advancement turn that they are disabled; most join scouting in the hope NOT to be reminded. At present, the scout has to submit a request for alternate requirements to the Council Advancement committee at every rank step when most unit leaders can handle the matter without compromising advancement integrity. Patrol competitions are a big challenge. At a Klondike Derby, we had a PL in tears. He wanted to win, but his patrol spent their energies keeping a special needs scout from wandering off. What can be done here? Does Special Olympics handling of competitive team events have some advice here? Disabilities Merit Badge needs a rewrite - no Talk, no Discuss, no Googling, no Observing...DO! Learn by working with disabled, e.g., Work with a special needs scout to advance a rank, Volunteer with ..., raise service dogs,... I wish I could counter your experiences with some success stories of my own but I cannot, not yet anyway. If you had it to do over, how would you have better spent your time to meet your son's needs? Thank you for your candor and your service to Scouting. I encourage you to write more on the subject as God knows the uninformed certainly do. I hope your son finds happiness as he makes his place in the world.

Odd that John Glenn was never a Scout.

If you feel your Pack will not deliver the scouting program, then it would not hurt to look at other Packs. Attend other Pack meetings and outings with your son/den. You and the Mrs. should attend a Committee Meeting or two see if the Tiger, Wolf, and Bear parents are actively and cooperatively involved in delivering a scouting program. Look at their pack by-laws, budget. fundraising, and program calendar. Talk to members. Relay your findings to your den parents. If things do not improve with your current Pack and you find a better Pack, transfer over and take as many of your den that want to go with you. Worked for me, your mileage may vary. I moved my scouts to a better Pack and spent my time and energy on my scouts and not on trying to change City Hall. Happy ending.

Good questions Wilton125, maybe you can appreciate the irony...Back in the 70's, the Natick Army Labs asked me to evaluate some new cold weather gear even though I have never been a member or employee of the military, just an outdoor guy. Now I have been a member of the BSA for a longer than that, but the BSA seems uninterested in my letters. Luckily, there are a number of outdoor websites and magazine, interested in feedback from novice and expert alike, so we can pass on what we've learned. Neckerchiefs are part of our scout heritage and universally identify us as scouts, why even those WB21ers wear them, a special one I think? Neckerchiefs are multi-purpose like duct tape. Neckers are our bandanas, cravats, slings, signal flags, water filters, dust mask, handkerchief (when wearing short sleeves), troop identifier (color, design), hobo bag... Neckers fell out of favor here when they were downsized to the point of being useless, hell I need two for a single cravat around my leg. That fact was successfully used by my PLC in their argument to switch to baseball caps. Great decision too, no neckerchiefs means no slides to whittle so our scouts don't know how to whittle; no one earning Woodcarving mb either.

Good point about the internet being available today as a feedback mechanism. Has me wondering... Was a survey done on scouting.org? Scouting magazine? Was there any postings at council offices? I have not seen any. Has any forum member participated in this evaluation or even know someone who did? I asked around council and have not found anyone. I would think with the summer camps starting, that it would be an opportune time for staff to showcase the new functional, outdoor uniform, but I had heard nothing along those lines. Will the evaluation results and a FAQ be published on scouting.org or elsewhere? How large was the survey group? How diverse by age, size, gender? Were they all scouts and scouters? How large was the field evaluation group? How long did the evaluation go on (interested in the weather and geography) as well as age, size, activity,..? How well did they do around a sparky campfire? Did the more stout scout need suspenders to keep pants from, well migrating south? Why wasn't the neckerchief made functional to fit with a new functional uniform? I had hoped that shortcoming would be fixed in time for the 100th. What attempts were made to find a US manufacturer? Is there a US manufacturer licensed to make special order uniforms. I think these are fair and valid questions/concerns. Other forum members have also expressed fair and valid questions/concerns.

He's right about the name "Community strip", but the "community" was the location of your unit. So in the 60's, you could be a member of Troop 154 with community strips (two one town and one state) "Pennsauken" and "N.J.". Councils in my area were organized by counties. In this example Camden County Council, no council designation was worn then. With scouting on the decline today, I think it is now the South Jersey Council which covers multiple counties. I think more are interested in what town and state you are from than what council, much better conversation starters. For me, the council patches after awhile seem generic and there is always someone who is pushing a NEW council patch, because newer is better.

Yeah and bring back the City/Town and State strips! Too bad they did not take the 60's style and color, use the wicking fabrics, and manufacture in the US. But then I want full size square neckerchief, over the collar, with a scout-carved slide too. Think I will stick with my old uniform. As to the shirt-tail problem, here's a solution, though gender specific I think, that airs next week http://www.nbc.com/Deal_or_No_Deal/video/#mea=257423 Maybe that's a new format for Round Table too?

I don't recall a horse. Probably too big and heavy to fit in his Cessna , besides he didn't seem to need a horse as the bad guys were always a short walk from the airstrip.

What I've read, #2 HDPE plastic (milk bottles) are though to be the safest plastic, while #1 (typical convenience store water bottles) is only recommended for short, single use water storage. I have noticed my area supermarkets are cutting back on those #1 bottles, of course, there is also a green issue does it make sense to truck water bottles when tap water has equal or better quality. Another brief informative article http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2007/03/29/plastic_water_bottles I wonder what I did with my old scout aluminum canteen. It held water and I could use it to signal Sky King.

I think Canada's decision to declare B.P.A a toxic chemical forced the product withdrawal decision. Too bad Canada was not as vigilant about their own Menu Foods dog food, eh? Ok, we share blame too. http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/105 with a followup in June Backpacker magazine. I think it is prudent NOT to heat plastics (hot water, microwave) due to concerns of toxins being released, but then I don't use teflon coated cookware and am a firm believer in glass baby bottles and glass lined thermos. Anyway speaking of bottles, I think we will be left holding ours. I have seen no consumer recalls or trade-in offers.

So can this be wrapped up? I think Ed wants pie. It has been shown that - Scouts may wear their uniform during their Eagle Scout project which was the original question. - Scouts are not restricted to wearing their uniforms to just scout activities. - An Eagle Scout service project is a scout activity. - Some councils require local tour permits for parts of the Eagle Scout service project. No official BSA documents were presented that explicitly stated that the above practices are incorrect. Many examples were cited that the above have been common practices in the field for a considerable time. If in doubt, check with your Eagle Board.

Well good thing the Eagle service project is a scout activity, otherwise YP, a BSA policy, would not apply.

Not my rules, I cited examples of councils that require local tour permits for Eagle Scout service projects. No one was talking about other scout activities you mentioned - OA or Jamboree. Sounds like you are advising Eagle candidates in those councils to ignore their council rules as they work on their Eagle projects.

As eagle90 mentioned, some councils do require local tour permit for parts of an Eagle service project. Some reasons include documenting that youth protection guidelines are being followed or as a service tracking log as councils did before the National Good Turn website started. Here's one: http://wm.ppbsa.org/Advancement/Eagle_Scout_Elements.pdf " Funding b. Fund raising projects require a tour permit, detailed plan and an approved BSA fund raising permit." " ADULT INVOVEMENT: a. BSA policy requires 2 adults (Youth Protection Trained) to be present at any BSA activity." Here's another http://www.monvalleyboyscouts.org/upldDocuments/ Unit461/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Eagle%20Scout%20 Project%20Guidelines%20for%20Scouts.pdf "If you are transporting Scouts make file a Local Tour Permit." Here's another http://www.frenchcreek-bsa.org/wtd/advancement/ life_to_eagle/project_safety.pdf Reminds Eagle candidates that the Sweet 16 Safety points including #12 Permits applies to all activities. http://www.pioneeringprojects.org/resources/ebooks/ LeaderTrainingConference.pdf Eagle Project Q & A "IS A TOUR PERMIT REQUIRED? Yes. A tour permit is required any time a Scout activity takes place outside the normal meeting location" Local scout council set local tour permit policies.

NO BSA documents explicitly state that a scout cannot wear his uniform during his Eagle Scout project. There is also no rule explicitly stating that a scout can only wear his uniform at a scout activity. And there is no official policy explicitly stating that an Eagle Scout service project is not a scout activity. If those did exist, then the sources would have been produced by now. These unique interpretations of policy for Eagle service project remains an opinion and is not a fact supported by official documents or policy practices. Eagle candidates may wear their uniform during their Eagle Scout project as they have done in the past. We cannot add our own advancement requirements. My advice, if a purported policy, rule, guideline seems not quite right, ask that person, "Show me where it is written." If they cannot, then it is only their opinion.

Amazing how complicated Cub Scout camping is. We used to camp in our backyards by ourselves as our first Cub Scout campout - no can do today. There are "temporary guardians" which can be established by the biological parents, or child custodian, or legal guardian, or court to "temporarily" assume the duties same for specific purposes and/or time period. A common example in medical forms, scout leaders are assigned temporary guardianship for the purpose of seeking and receiving emergency medical care for a scout. A babysitter would be another example. We had one Cub share a tent with his grandfather, another with his uncle, both had written consent of the respective Cub's mother (single mom) - temporary guardianship for camping trip. Worked well, all had fun though grandpa shook the trees at night with his snoring. Now to add to the silliness, both Wolf scouts had attended resident camp the summer before with the Pack but without parent or guardian (perfectly BSA legal). The rule says "When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian." It does not explicitly say legal guardian. I am a stickler for safety, but these rules and guidelines (often thought to be all rules) produce an atmosphere where some third party always comes up with a "reason" why we cannot enjoy an activity in scouting - why a scout should not go out. Might skip Cub Scouting for my youngest and just take him camping with old dad, I think we both will have more fun. 'I can bring my squirt gun dad?' No problem.

Ironically at these courses, you should be taught that before an activity, an outdoor activity leader should ask or have a copy of your medical form and provide to you an equipment list or reference an existing one, say 'Use equipment list on page 224 of Scout handbook' as you might want to bring a water bottle and sleeping bag. Before departure, the outdoor leader reviews medical form (would be nice to know of any food allergies before ordering food) and often checks a new person's equipment. My unit only takes Class A uniforms if the campout is a district camporee or scout summer camp, as there is other clothing more functional for outdoor activity.

I offer this conspiracy theory The policy originally said something to the effect. 'While a Life Scout plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to a religious organization, school, or your community. < The project should benefit an organization other than the BSA >.' But that was too clear so it was changed to allow for misinterpretation. "The Eagle Scout service project provides the opportunity for the Eagle Scout Candidate to demonstrate his leadership skills that he has learned in Scouting. < He does the project outside the sphere of Scouting. >" So "does the project outside the sphere of Scouting" just means a Scout can't build a brick outhouse at Scout camp but he can build one at town hall. No more no less.

Teach scouts to swim. Too many Cub Scout waterfronts have become Camp Splash - alot of fun but scouts end the week no better swimmers or should I say nonswimmers than when they arrived. One camp that I attend had two dozen kickboards (used to teach leg strokes) and never used them. No swim instruction was attempted.

OGE, Yes in my troop, scouts are recruited to help with Eagle projects, in fact, I have yet to see any non-scouts at any of our project. Attendance is taken at activity; hours recorded in Troopmaster towards their Star or Life service requirements, troop hours credited on national Good Turn website. Publicity photos taken and submitted to local paper. The other intended benefit for these younger scouts is to learn how-to plan and organize an Eagle project. No small coincidence, that those scouts volunteering are likely future Eagles. Sure seems like a scout activity to me. Eagle candidate wears Class A except during the physical labor when all, depending on weather, wear Class B. This however, is not required; Scouts have found this works the best and is practical. No complaints from scouts, CO, Council. My $0.02 - I teach my scouts to follow the Scout Oath and Law everyday, to act as scouts always whether they are wearing the uniform or not. This concept of "outside the sphere of scouting" drives me nuts. If you want the BSA, Council, and the insurance carrier to not be liable then so state - require an insurance waiver for participants and tell them 'as always if any of your scouts are hurt or killed the BSA will disavow any knowledge...Good luck Jim'. But don't try to sell this nonsense that an Eagle Scout service project approved by SM, Troop Committee, District Eagle Board with scout manpower is "outside the sphere of scouting". Now suppose an Eagle candidate came up for his EBOR and it was public knowledge that he had committed some foolish act - involved in a cheating scandal at school, set a brush fire with fireworks,...and this is questioned by reviewers. His response, "Sir, that occurred outside the sphere of scouting." Oh right, okay next question ...I don't think so.

reducing National executive and legal staff or compensation, cutback paper and paperwork (imagine if we adult leaders filled out that multi-sheet adult leader application ONCE to National instead of filling out a new application whenever we change or add a leadership position or change units or councils),... I will pay a premium to buy an American made product. I will not buy an American flag or a "Boy Scouts Of America" shirt or handbook not manufactured by Americans. According to my local Scout Shop, scout office and rank patches are no longer American made - great.

"Shouldn't we be building a culture in our Troops that community service is something the Scouts ought to do rather than something they have to do for rank " It used to be this way - "Do a good turn daily" was expected and there were no service project requirements or hours minimums for ranks (except Eagle), let alone a web site to tally hours and brag about it. Scouts were expected to show Scout Spirit by serving others either by themselves or participating in patrol and troop service projects. I am trying to correct this mentality at the patrol level by having patrols work on the National Honor Patrol Award. Hopefully scouts will start thinking about this - seeing needs themselves and stepping in to help without a thought given to award or recognition like that unknown British scout who helped that American businessman in the London fog? You're right.