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ParkMan

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Everything posted by ParkMan

  1. I'd disagree slightly that national is pushing family scouting. Other than this forum, I almost never hear about it. But other than that - you and I agree here. I'd love to help you on that - but don't know how from here. What is it about youth led, patrol method they don't want to implement? @JoeBob I'm curious what you disagree with here.
  2. Family Scouting is nothing more than a marketing concept designed to attract membership. I've yet to see a single BSA guidebook or training updated to reflect any change in program or program mechanics. No offense meant, but I'd argue that a troop that hears "Family Scouting" and then throws patrol method out the window is a troop that doesn't really understand what it is doing. If a troop was correctly implementing the program, they'd figure out how to leverage Family Scouting in delivering the program - not change their program to fit Family Scouting. Nothing in the new YPT rules is
  3. Hah! That's funny. Actually I'm an engineer too. Perhaps because of that, I see Scouting from the BSA as both a set of goals and also a program for individuals to deliver. In the work that I do as an engineer I'm constantly solving problems. If one way doesn't work, I try another. I look at Scouting much the same way. I look at the goals and figure out what we're trying to accomplish in Scouting. I look at the program provided by the BSA and figure out how best use it to accomplish those goals. If the BSA changes the mechanics of the program and throws me a curve ball, I go back
  4. Goodness - this got negative today. I'm sorry to see that we've gotten to the point where you all are so disillusioned. Myself, I choose to keep looking for positives here. At it's core - scouting is still a great, unmatched program. It's still a great way to help our youth grow. I was out socially tonight. One of the troop parents recognized me and shared just how much her son has benefited from Scouting. As long as there are more boys and girls out there like this one - I sure think it's worth finding the good.
  5. I get that you don't like the new rule - but that's pretty melodramatic. Countless troops all over the country implement patrol method fine with some adults hanging around. Sure national threw us a curveball - but it's up to folks like us to make it work.
  6. Call me a dreamer - but I continue to think the future of patrol method is bright. But, those experienced in it have to teach it to the next generation of leaders.
  7. When I was a CM & the CC, we didn't put a lot of energy into popcorn. Our dues were $70 a scout per year. They covered national fees, awards, a new neckerchief for the scouts, meeting supplies, PWD kit, and incidentals. Most of our expenses were passed to parents as the year went on. i.e., if they attend the pack campout it's $25 a person. I'll admit - we never worried much about fundraising. We built our budget assuming we'd get none. I suppose our philosophy was : dues to cover basic expenses & registration pass event fees to families so that they pay for
  8. ParkMan

    YPT

    MB counselor registrations are still free. We discussed this in our Troop Committee meeting last week. Among the 20 adults present, I got very different feedback. (BTW - I'm sharing the number of attendees only to convey it wasn't me and two friends). Here's some quick thoughts on the above from our discussion. 1. Folks seemed generally comfortable that the BSA looked at this and the BSA decided that it would be better to have two adults that have taken YPT to one. Of course, in our troop, the adults are all great and we wouldn't need any YPT training - but we could accept
  9. ParkMan

    YPT

    Seriously - I don't understand the volume of pushback either. So some more folks have to spend an hour or two taking a class and undergo a background check. That really doesn't seem like a big ask.
  10. ParkMan

    YPT

    But parents don't have to be paid & registered to help. Before we had to have one YPT trained and registered (background checked) adult. Now we have to have two YPT trained and registered (background checked) adults. I just see this as the BSA recognizing that it is better to have two people present at events that know the rules. There's lots of good reasons to have two trained people instead of one. You have a backup, have strength in numbers, have someone who can correct foggy memory, etc... Parents can still help till their hears content and not pay or register. The onl
  11. ParkMan

    YPT

    In the GSUSA all adults present on camping trips have to be registered members. It has been that way for at least the 8 years my family has been involved.
  12. I share your sentiment and agree. The BSA is doing this things because it's the obvious path given the rest of our society. As a Scout leader, what I've seen is that relatively few folks actually want us to coddle their kids. It's just it's what parents think is the right way to do things because it's what they see everywhere else. However, when we present them with another way and explain why, they generally agree. Setting up a tent is the classic, albeit simplistic, example. Parents will often go on the first campout with their son after crossing over. They'll see their son
  13. I agree with @Eagledad. I've seen a variety of terms used in planning like this. But, they generally break down into "goals" and "steps you'll take". When folks add a Mission Statement, it's usually a little more general. Most of the rest of what you wrote sound like the short term steps you'll take to get going. What I feel like is missing here is details about where you want to get to and some times and durations. The question I normally get with this is - "this seems to formal for a Scout troop - isn't it obvious we want to do these things? I've found that even in Scouting, havi
  14. I just hope they're beta testing the rules and supporting language with real units. I can deal with rules like "have adults copied". It's just when the rules try to get specific but end up being vague that we seem to run into issues. Stuff like "is email a form of social media?" and "what does public mean?" . These issues seem easily avoidable if they were to roll the rules out for comments and then incorporated comments into the final version. Beyond that though, this all just saddens me for the BSA and the scouts. I'm 100% behind protecting youth - but there has to be another way.
  15. Exactly - which is why I figure we have to apply some common sense here. I'd rather they just write down what they are trying to achieve and let us sort it out. Now, if I was being pedantic I'd argue that email is no more a form of social media than a telephone call. I think most of this boils down to: no one-on-one adult youth interaction. for adult/youth communication - two adults must be present (two way communication like chat or phone) or copied (one way communication like email/facebook/etc.). in a group communication setting (such as email list or facebook), two
  16. The policy as written certainly has quite a few holes. For example - if we cannot have a closed group what about things like email distribution lists which by design are closed systems. We, as adults just have to use common sense as we apply it. My interpretation is that the BSA is trying to 1) avoid small group environments where it is possible to issues to occur and 2) have sufficient adult oversight so that the safety of Scouts is maintained. That's the interpretation I go with. I get the desire to give the Scouts more freedom from adults. I wish the BSA could get ahead of this st
  17. Please don't shoot the messenger, but I think this is the section that requires adults to monitor it. From: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a To help ensure that all communication on social media channels remains positive and safe, these channels must be public, and all communication on or through them must be public. This enables administrators to monitor all communication and help ensure there is no inappropriate communication between adult leaders and Scouts or between Scouts themselves. Therefore, no private channels (e.g., private Facebook groups or invite-only
  18. @Eagle94-A1 I'm sorry to hear about your ongoing frustrations with your troop. I think of you and your troop often when people start to talk about Family Scouting. I wish I had some wisdom from my travels - but do not. I fully understand that unless you are the Scoutmaster or Committee Chair, your hands are tied to the extent upon which you can change the culture. In the absence of this, we get to try to encourage folks to share our views - but it is tough. All my best.
  19. I'm following your point. I do think it would be good for a Troop to apply the same standard to any member. But, I do think folks would look at behavior problems warranting a parent and physically or mentally disabled scout requiring specially trained individuals as unique cases. I don't think being a girl is an exception case like these. A "boys only" troop asking any invited, co-ed dens to provide proper supervision seems like the right way to go. So, in cases like the one in this topic - there is an easy solution with no impact on the troop. I do understand that this specific
  20. Ok - then how about we only let scouts who's parents go attend? Since when has it ever been a requirement that your parents attend? I was never advocated that the BSA had to admit girls. But now that it's happened, we've got to be fair. If a troop invites a den with girls, the troop has to make sure it has the staff to support it. If it doesn't that's the troops fault - don't blame the girl you invited. What kind of example is that?
  21. if the schedule were something like: week 1: co-ed week 2: boys only week 3: girls only week 4: co-ed week 5: co-ed It would seem fair. But, something like: week 1: boys only week 2: boys only week 3: ce-ed week 4: co-ed week 5: boys only Does not.
  22. I'm not trying to force you to cancel. I think you're doing a great thing by trying to someone to attend to make it possible for her to go. Since you feel hamstrung by the threat from your Scouts, let me lay out my thinking: Here we've got a case where a troop has invited a Webelos den to go camporee with you. You are now faced with the prospect of having to tell a member of that den she cannot attend simply because she is a girl. If I recall correctly you've got something like 30 scouts in your troop. That's 20+ moms and/or wives who could attend. But, they choose not to. I'm a
  23. I'd definitely get the pack leadership & COR & perhaps church leadership involved here. I agree to with @qwaze - start running through the list of other Scouting groups that might be able to help. You are trying to do the right thing here by making it possible for her to participate as an equal member. I'm not going to continue to beat the drum of cancel. But, some food for thought from my travels. Because we always want to provide our Scouts the best experience possible, we often perceive things as worse than they are. Yes, it's camporee - but you don't have to g
  24. Yes - the last part (about the new normal) was sarcasm. It was late here and that completely wasn't obvious. I agree with @Eagle94-A1 that the BSA should have allowed adults of whatever gender take Scouts of whatever gender camping. It's ridiculous that in this day and age they added such an old school rule. They missed a golden opportunity to be a leader here. But, due to the rules we have now, I was serious about canceling. The quickest way to start making girls feel like less welcome members is to have the boys go on a trip but say the girls cannot because you don't have a
  25. Agreed - see if her parent can get registered. Pay for the registration for her. But, if not and you can't find one - cancel the campout. A troop camps together. If you don't have sufficient adults for a troop member to go (even a prospective troop member), you don't go. It's not her fault, it's the fault of the adults in the troop. Welcome to the new normal.
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