ParkMan

I would gather that there has to be a written record of this meeting and vote. Who has standing to request that information?

@skeptic, as you know well, Scouting is a youth development activity. Because it's a youth development activity, Scouting is designed to put youth into new and challenging situations in a safe environment. Because these situations are challenging, Scouts often try them, struggle, fail, and then try them again. Along the way, youth oftern have to assume more responsibility then they are accustomed to. This kind of challenging environment is often difficult for parents to watch. A great many parents cannot resist the temptation to intervene. That intervention can eliminate the benefit

I've not seen this month's issue yet - so I'm hesitant to comment too much. I do not mind a reminder that there is a role for families in Scouting. But I fear that either: national continues to misunderstand the cause/effect relationship here. national understands it, but is confusing the volunteers with the terminology Some slick messaging around families will not get families to participate. Great programming will get families to participate.

Ok - I can get behind that - to a point. I do think we have to be very upfront that this is what we're talking about. JTE is a pretty mediocre tool, but it is a tool. So leveraging the tools we have to the best of their potential is good. Yet, I think we have to be careful that we don't continue to further the belief that JTE is the desired way to accomplish these goals.

Ok - I'll take your word on it. I actually find the evolution of this topic kind of odd. We started out going through all the limitations of JTE and are now discussing how if we made it a competition, people would participate more. Guess I'm more interested in really addressing the issue that JTE is designed for than trying to find ways to promote it. I'm reminded that JTE feels a lot to me like other BSA initiatives. That the BSA needs to find a way to manage units. We see it from national, I see it from the council professionals too. But, in reality this is all backwards - the

When I saw "we", I didn't so much mean that our troop is the largest in the district. I meant that within districts, there is an inherent understanding of who the big troops are and who the small troops are. Who the active troops are and the inactive troops. We as Scouters don't so much need another plaque to tell us who the best troop is - we generally know that stuff.

Honestly - I seriously doubt anyone would even bother with a JTE competition. We already have a JTE competition - it's called being the largest, most active troop in the district.

For YPT to work, you have to be willing to report if there is an issue. But, there's a difference between a "one time mistake that is clearly a mistake". For example, two Scouters are together to provide two deep leadership with a single scout. One realizes he left something in the car and runs to grab it. It creates a moment where the other Scouter is in violation of YPT. Scouter alone with the Scout recognizes the mistake and excuses himself from the situation. Technically there is a violation there - but it's clear to all that it was a mistake. But, beyond that you really need

As I see it, there are really only a few constituencies that matter: the Scouts, the parents, the volunteers, and the chartered org. I expect that none of them care about JTE. So, for a great many Scouters, there's a big question of why even bother? So you recharter but don't do JTE - so what? It's a truism that a unit that sets some goals and works at them will improve. As JTE is a way to help set goals, then it has value. But, experience has shown that relatively few units really use it to set any goals. It's written for people who are comfortable bringing some organization and pl

If I read through the entire JTE list and extract all the program items, it looks something like: 1. Planning and Budgeting: Have a planning meeting involving youth 2. Building Scouting: no program items 3. Retention: no program items 4. Webelos-to-Scout: no program items (OK, you have to encourage someone to be a den chief) 5. Advancement: Scouts advance in rank every year. 6. Short-term camping: Hold 9 short term camping trips 7. Long-term camping: Encourage scouts to attend a council summer camp or national HA base 8. Service projects: Add service projects to your progra

It's the targets. In short - JTE in is present form is too quantitative. Recruit N new scouts, send Y scouts to summer camp. It almost entirely ignore methods like Scout led & patrol method. This in turn creates a perception that adult led troops that are focused on numbers and metrics are more important than the quality of the program in those troops. This all creates a perception of what a quality troop is that runs contrary to why most people became volunteers. Most of us didn't become volunteers to worry about growth charts and retention rates. We became volunteers to

If I may... I read lots of topics of the form [district folks, Wood Badge cult members, professionals, or council folks] drive me nuts when they keep pushing [roundtables, JTE, Wood Badge, membership drives, popcorn, training, ...] That's fine and all that, but I get the sense that people get themselves pretty worked up over it. I find the various conversations like those in turn get people frustrated and demoralized. i.e "the Wood Badge cult people in our council are a clique that are destroying Scouting because they keep forcing me to go to Roundtables where they force us all to hear

My encouragement to you would be to find your fun. Don't feel pressured into the lie that you need to care about all this stuff. We are all different and have different interests. That's what makes this all so wonderful. There is a home in Scouting for all kinds of volunteers. Those who love helping a 7 year old build a Pinewood Derby Car, those who love helping a 12 year old discover that he can camp independently, those who love helping a 15 year old be a great Senior Patrol Leader, and many, many more things. We are all different and care about different things - and that's OK.

Holy cow! What lunacy.

Huh? We ask adults directly to volunteer all the time in our district.

My sense is that the drop is largely due to a decline in adult enthusiasm coupled with the recognition that Scout BSA was coming. These units may have been youth led, but the energy to keep them moving year after year comes from adults. I think Venturing has suffered from an identity problem which has led to an adult enthusiasm problem.

This is something that gets repeated a lot, but not really true. The point of YPT is to put in place processes and culture to make abuse significantly less likely to occur. Further, if it does occur, YPT should give us the tools to recognize it and stop it as quickly as possible. I'm not saying that YPT really achieves this things - but that's the purpose as I see it.

We shouldn't keep passing the buck for things like this on to district or council Scouters. If the unit leadership doesn't take some ownership and show it's important, then the unit Scouters won't see it as important. Yes, no-one likes taking a course on YPT, but the unit leadership should be out there advocating that folks get it done. Also - I don't see any real value in having district Scouters police this. Our district training team consists of a small number of very seasoned Scouters. They've all been through packs and troops and have had kids that have aged out. They all know t

Great list! I think this is just the kind of proactive thinking that will help the BSA become more interesting to kids.

Who's trivializing it? It's probably a pretty good idea for a volunteer entrusted with the safety of people's kids to have to sit down once a year and go over the rules again. It keeps the concepts and materials fresh in everyone's mind. Of course I don't "need" it. But, it does help serve as a reminder. Even those somber videos with the stories about people who have been victimized serve as a refresher. For work I have to yearly take all kinds of refresher trainings which are nothing more than last year's material rehashed. It's done on purpose. Let's be honest - the only reason c

I certainly agree that the mindset is wrong at national and in the council staffs. It feels to me like they think of units and unit volunteers as entities to managed. Your YPT percentage isn't 100%, you're not advancing enough, you're not recruiting enough. I believe it would do the BSA well to adopt much more of a service mentality than a management mentality. Yet, on this specific YPT issue I can't get too worked up. I too have chased volunteers to get this done. It's a royal pain. The BSA could simplify this immensely by adopting a policy of: - YPT certification is good for

Even when we forgive, there are still consequences.

This is my take too. That he could have a impulse to swat a female he doesn't know on the bottom certainly suggests that he has some inappropriate views towards women. What gets lost here is the enormity of what he did. Cat calls, sexist remarks, swats on the rear end. Yes, the physical impact is minor - but what they mean is the big deal. That this man felt so empowered to assert himself on this woman is the big deal. Any offense of this magnitude needs some response beyond "it's okay because he said sorry."

Hi @hertfordnc I hear you! The BSA is a very weird organization. The arguments you're making and frustrations you're describing are the same as the a great many of us have too. What I've come to reluctantly understand is that the BSA unit/council/national relationship is pretty strained. This YPT business is a great example. National setup this YPT rule that YPT needs to be current in order to volunteer. Unit volunteers ignore this constantly. Council and district volunteers are put in the position of having to deal with that. So - what is a council volunteer to do? Ignor

I understand the desire of councils to make sure that volunteers will be considered trained during the duration of their registration. Councils have just about zero leverage to get volunteers to take YPT at any time other than registration. My suggestion - make this a national rule, but also extend YPT certification to last for 27 months. Councils get what they want, volunteers get what they want. National needs to look for smart solutions to cases like this- not more arbitrary rules.