OzarksOsage

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I agree that the Centennial shirt's collar does not fit well over a neckerchief. But, with the smaller collar, it would be easier to wear a neckerchief OVER the collar, with the collar in the normal position, as many Scout associations around the world wear theirs. With the BSA returning to larger-sized neckers (thank you!) the fit of the even-larger-necker under the smaller collar will become even less desirable. I wonder if the BSA is going to move to neckers over/around the normally-positioned collar? That would be a good thing.

My biggest issue with the new shirt is that the length is too short. If you raise your arms up once or twice, the bottom pulls out. The new pants look OKAY as pants, terrible as shorts--they're too darned long. The bottom of your shorts shouldn't hit you -right at- the knee. Also, with so much elastic in the waist, my pants always feel like they're going to fall down. There aren't enough belt loops, and the loops are tight for a Philmont-sized belt.

I'm not sure when the first Raven patrol became part of Gilwell order in the Greater St. Louis Area Council, but now, when a course has eight full patrols and a Raven is on the course staff, the SM often exercises the option to substitute the Raven patrol for the Antelope patrol. When there's a gathering of Wood Badgers and the Gilwell song is sung, we do nine verses to include both Antelopes and Ravens. OzarksOsage

In my council, a lot of Scouters still wear the red jacket. However, most of those jackets are "vintage." (You can tell by the round-topped buttons.) I've heard lots of folks talk about getting a red jacket--some day--but it's hard to swallow the price. When I got mine, seems like it cost less than $50.00. I also have one of the plaid Boy's Life promotion versions from the 60's, and that gets a lot of attention when I wear it. It's also heavier wool and has slash pockets for my hands in addition to the two patch pockets. OzarksOsage

With the general confusion over the "trained" patch, now might be a good time to do away with it and bring back the short-lived trend from the 70's that designated trained leaders with a fully embroidered POR. OzarksOsage

I just got back from our monthly roundtable meeting, and the new uniforms look so much like the current uniform that it took me a moment to realize that our DE was wearing one. The overall look is VERY much the same. The shorts look nice. The bellows pockets are. . .okay. The "Boy Scouts of America" strip appears to be embroidered directly on the shirt. Our DE said he didn't like the sleeve pocket, and said he had sewn it shut when he put his badge of office on it. Everyone was already joking about the "cigarette pocket." OzarksOsage

FireKat: To answer your questions: What about the boys' parents? How do they feel/act about what has happened? --One family is in denial, the other thinks there is some problem, but not necessarily with their son. Any input from district/council/camp personal? --Last year they asked me (I'm on the district committee) just what the heck was going on with the troop. This year, they've turned the problem back to us to resolve, which I think is standard procedure. Any signs of changing attitue with any of the boys? --None that I can see. What about the new scoutmast

I'm seeking advice here, or perhaps support for my position. Here's the story: Last summer, the troop with the same CO as my pack (and for which Im an ASM) went to an out-of-state summer camp. Four scouts from the troop trespassed on clearly-marked property of a neighboring religious retreat and stole a prayer flag. There were also incidents of destruction of camp property, a search that mobilized the entire camp to find one of the four scouts who was "lost" only to find out later that he was playing a game and was actually evading the searchers, bad attitudes, disrespect, etc. The be

My NCS Day Camp Administration certification, granted in 2006 from the Central Region's NCS is good for five years. My range safety certification must be renewed every two years. OzarksOsage

Thought I might as well throw in my two cents worth as well. I've staffed seven camps, three of those as director. Comparing notes, our council charges $47 for five days of camp. For budget, we are given $9.50 per scout, and not only do we use every nickle, we have to account for it at the end. Only registered Cubs may participate in the daily activities, and we do have a tot lot for the non-scout children of staff and walk-around parents. Aside from the DE who is assigned to our camp as general advisor and gopher, the staff is 100% volunteer. In fact, at minimum, it costs the staff vaca

Proud PPL of Baden's Misbehavin' Ravens C-39-05 OzarksOsage

With the Boy Scout shoulder loops going to green, it would be good to change the Venturing loops to red. Back in the day, red was the "accent" color for Explorers, and green for Boy Scouts on the garter tabs (gold for Cub Scouts when wearing the knee socks). The red would look fine on a dark green shirt. The current green on green for Venturing is nearly pointless because they blend in so well. Webelos and Cub Scouters in the tan shirts would still wear the navy loops. OzarksOsage

For my den, I've always used the toploading sports card holders for awards. The presentation card stays clean and neat, and there's room in the holder for rank patches and arrow points. Anything else is handed out individually. We avoid the baggie and a handshake method whenever possible. OO

Regarding neckerchiefs, they only look too small when worn under the shirt collar. With the collar turned under, the fit is more traditional, but turning the collar under is a bit of a hassle. In the UK, there are both Scout- and Leader-sized neckerchiefs. There are different sizes for OA sashes, so why not different sizes for neckers? OzarksOsage

Interesting discussion. Keep it simple. If a young man cannot pledge on his honor that he will do his duty to God, then that young man shouldn't be a member of the BSA. OzarksOsage

The unearned awards issue is pretty widespread, at least in the cub years. I think it's the fault of pee-wee sports. Honestly. Many parents are accustomed to the idea of signing junior up in whatever sports league, paying the fee, showing up a few times and then collecting a trophy at the end of the season. They feel their family is entitled to something for the fees they paid. I also know that some parents "fudge" on the completion of requirements. One of my former den parents (the family has since left the pack) used to literally make up, on the spot, what it was that junior had complete

I was once at a training event where the question was asked: "Why did you become a leader for the BSA?" Answer: Because I believe in the ideals of the organization. Follow-up question: "Why do you CONTINUE to volunteer as a leader?" Answer: Because it's fun! If you're not having fun, the boys probably will not be having fun. If the boys aren't having fun, they probably won't stick around too long. Being a leader _shouldn't_ be a chore (I know, sometimes it is) and meetings should be something to look forward to. Yes, we do what we do "for the boys," but don't be a martyr.

A commemorative coin for the BSA is a great idea. It will be a huge seller, and I will buy several myself to stash away for presents when my current crop of Cub Scouts reach Eagle. Those who are against commemorating the BSA don't have to buy any. OzarksOsage

DenZero: The initial post indicates that a group of Webelos II's plans to go camping as a den, but not as a "den" to apparently circumvent GTSS rules and avoid paperwork. Anyone is obviously free to camp with anyone they choose, but if the trip is a thinly disguised pack activity, then I think those involved should be more forthcoming and admit that's what it is and follow the guidelines that are designed for their benefit. That's all I'm saying. OO

No one is really fooled by such verbiage. If a disaster happenend, it would still be reported in the news as "a webelos den. . ." However, if you declared on permission slips that some activity was NOT a scout event, I'm sure you'd forfeit any insurance coverage by the BSA. Is that really worth the risk, just to have a cold one by the campfire late one night? OzarksOsage

From what I've seen, the boys who get the most out of scouting are those who reach Eagle around 14 or 15. Earning the rank at that age opens the doors to other opportunities like working on summer camp staff, leadership beyond the troop, and so on. Those who become inactive for a few years then come back to squeak the deadline are most often the guys who are looking for something substantial to put on a scholarship application or are looking forward to building their resume. I would hope that boys would earn Eagle early enough so they can enjoy the privaleges while still scouts. It's a sham

For my two-cent's worth: I'm glad to see the convertable pants in canvas, AND in a style that can be hemmed. I hope knee socks will be available in a solid color as well--I hate the current red-topped socks and often wear my old green knee socks with garters and tabs! (Everytime I do, the older scouters flock to me to see where I got them, hoping they're available again.) Hat is fine. The pockets on the shirt look too funky for me. The pocket on the sleeve seems pointless, and I'm sure I'll sew right through it. The pockets look as if they're placed too high on the front of the shirt, and

I'm in the New Horizons district of the Greater St. Louis Area Council. Our district is huge, with about 9,000 scouts and three or four thousand adults. There are many, many Scouters with years of leadership experience, both in Scouting and in their professional careers--a great bunch of people. Anyway, in our district, it seems that the threshold for working at the district level is Wood Badge training. Working those ticket items gets one's foot in the door. Of course, WB is not required to help out in a program area at a Day Camp or camporee, but to be on the organizing end of such events

Welcome, Brian. The answer is "yes." I know of a troop in Webster Groves that regularly attends Bartle as well as one of our own council camps. Based upon the well-known quality of their program, I'd say attending Bartle has had a very positive impact on the young men in that troop. Having grown up in a council adjacent to Heart of America, Bartle and its Mic-O-Say were viewed with some sense of rivalry and much curiosity. As an adult, now that I know gentlemen who grew up with Mic-O-Say, and see the tremendous impact it has had on their lives, I must say I have newfound respect for t