Basementdweller

I don't view the program as successful. Until my SPL runs the complete meeting and outing for the month it will still be a work in progress. Still a lot of mentoring going on behind the scenes and at the meetings.

Blake, so you never went on a scout outing and participated in the activity????? If I drive the boys to the range to shoot, I will shoot as well, how about rapelling, I don't like heights but I will do it with the boys. Your being ridiculous

Blake.....I am interested in active boys, You know that if you have a troop of 20 with 50% attendance you functionally have one patrol. So instead of having a troop of 70 to have my troop of 35 active boys.......... I remove the dead wood. If your saying that I am cherry picking boys with good attendance than yes your probably right.

I would never base anything on a JTE score. So in your book what is right? I would go with what ever is easiest on your mind. Reregistering them?? Refunding their dues???? dues cover more than just recharter, I would thank them for being a scout and let them know they are welcome back at anytime. end of story.

It took 4 years to bring the program back and it took the Troop committee and the Two adults who had a shared vision as to where they wanted to go and it to be. We are very much still in process. The attendance policy stemmed from a number of discussions here about boys at life disappearing for a couple of years and then reappearing to earn Eagle just under the wire. Being proactive and not gonna be that guy. The committee adopted the policy about a year ago now. The parents are aware of it as are the boys and till now there has been no reason to enforce/remove a lad from membership. We have not rechartered boys who have not been active, the PL call to see if they are interested no response your off the charter. Last year it killed my retention numbers, but this year we lost 2 webelos who filled out the application and came to a couple of meetings to never be seen from again and a football player. but Honestly their attendance has been stellar. We have 100 for most meetings and 80-100% attendance on outings. The program is headed toward a boy led outdoor program. We have multiple events a month outside of meetings from community service, day hikes, orienteering mets, on and on. We camp 10 months a year with December being our Lock in Christmas party and a cabin trip to our local scout camp for scout community service. The program is what ever the boys want it to be.....We shoot, canoe, hike, backpack, rappell, bike, swim, provide service to our community. The big thing is our troop is made up of boys who want to be in scouting, not boys whose parents think it might be a good idea.

Sad a fellow can't even have an opinion and share it any more.

So there is no benefit to mega Troops other that Ego Stroking the adults involved??????

Good thing the rest of the committee is with you on that. I've never seen a troop over 50 that is properly boy-led and not rampant with adult-centric "fixes" to make that size sustainable. 8 troop scribes to give everyone their PoR, and silliness like that. It's simply an ego thing, and most of the time it's a racket from one mega fundraiser to the next for that troop RV with satellite TV and 6-burner range If the CC won't let it go, sock him with Baden-Powell: "The numbers in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many I could deal with - in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two." (Aids to Scoutmastership) Maybe the CC thinks he is 6x better at this than BP, in which case he can make a 100-member troop; or maybe he thinks you're 6x better, in which case he ought to accept your judgement that 38 is enough. If I lived with the lads 24 x 7 I would expect to learn 100 lads names and info. I am not turning away a lad, but sending him to another unit. I believe a lad is better served by a smaller unit.

Bottom line here folks We will take the Web crossovers from Little Brother Pack regardless of troop size, they average 3-6 per year. I will plan the troop looking at the webelo numbers coming up. We will enforce attendance, good riddance to the casual scouts, the ones that cherry pick events or camp only. I have spoken to neighboring SM's to let them know what I am doing and ask permission to refer boys to them. They agree that more units are better than a single mega troop in the area. One expressed concerns about receiving our cast offs the other was glad to have them. I assured both that any contacts would be referred to them without ever meeting or judging the lad, We would not cherry pick boys.

Nice shots Musta been tired yesterday and missed them. Transporting gear to a campout is a problem and we may end up with a trailer. Far as the rest of your list. Not sure why we would ever need a rich businessman, pilot, gun owner or a home schooler. My boys will fund raise if we decide to buy a trailer. We will not ask for donations. We will fly commercial if we need to fly anywhere. We will go to the gun range and pay an instructor if we need to. Home schoolers, mercifully most of them are in the burbs and not in my area. enough said.

In researching your summer temps average only 10 degrees warmer than where I live.

Hit a sore spot......I am sorry you have such a weak dump camping program. So today in Wichita fall's texas it is 44 degrees. Hmmmmmm, far from 100. and looking at the Weather Almanac it looks like only 3 months would be unreasonable to backpack and sleep like us east coasters do. http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USTX1464 So lay off the excuses and get the boys outdoors in a much less equipment ladden manner. The weather from October thru april is the perfect Backpacking temperature. In a brief search here are some backpacking oppurtunities http://www.backpacker.com/october_2001_destinations_best_backpacking_oklahoma/destinations/2587 http://www.backpacker.com/destinations/category/179

Good thing the rest of the committee is with you on that. I've never seen a troop over 50 that is properly boy-led and not rampant with adult-centric "fixes" to make that size sustainable. 8 troop scribes to give everyone their PoR, and silliness like that. It's simply an ego thing, and most of the time it's a racket from one mega fundraiser to the next for that troop RV with satellite TV and 6-burner range If the CC won't let it go, sock him with Baden-Powell: "The numbers in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many I could deal with - in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two." (Aids to Scoutmastership) Maybe the CC thinks he is 6x better at this than BP, in which case he can make a 100-member troop; or maybe he thinks you're 6x better, in which case he ought to accept your judgement that 38 is enough. I think it is an Ego thing with the CC. 4 years ago the troop was dead, 2 boys and 4 ghosts on the charter. I don't care about adult politics and crap......Even at thirty lads I was having a hard time keeping names, parents, home situations, experience straight. How does one actually know his scouts and make a difference. How does one make a SMC meaningful to a lad you don't actually know?

Fred, Unlike brew your language is fine. So I gotta ask, Where do the funds come from to pay registration? If it is through fundraising and the boys participated then they have a right to have their fees paid for by the Pack. If it is by the parents, then it is a wash.....It doesn't cost the Pack anything. Now if the boys didn't participate in any fundraising then No don't pay. bottom line here is what is best for the boy, $24 be damned.

Our attendance policy is a firm 75% activity level. With exception of illness, family issues and school activities, band or sports. We have attendance of 100% at meetings and 90% or better on outings. Generally if a lad misses the PL calls and checks on him.

No interest in splitting the troop. But I would like to encourage the formation of another unit. Seems like we have a lot of troops start then sputter out after a single year. Sad. or we have seen a lot of troops merging. I enjoy knowing each of the lads in my unit. I enjoy my smc's with them and learning who they are even if it makes my stomach turn at times. I just feel something is lost when you have a giant troop. So how does a fellow make a difference in a lads life when he barely knows his name. It was a lot of hard work, growing the troop like we did. When I took over a year ago we were at 12 boys, now we are at 38 and that is with only 6 webelos crossing over. No idea why the success. new boys keep showing up week after week. the next TLT will have 12 lads in attendance.....my first one a year ago had 4. Makes me smile.

Again this has zero effect on 99% of the scouts in the nation. I have yet to see any impact on my program based on issues from these large donors cutting off the funds. So we get rid of a few more DE's or admin support in the office. Explain exactly what they do for me?????? I enter my own charter info, I enter my own advancement info I give my charter money to the District membership chair, a volunteer. I make my reservations by calling the camp directly I never received the books or shirts for the boys in need as promised. I never received the boy talks or flyers for my packs recruitment. Not exactly sure what that big building full of people do.

Well Monday night our unit hit my magic number of 38. 4 patrols of 8 and a green bar patrol of the SPL, 2 ASPL and the troop quartermaster. At this point We are closing the unit and not accepting new members and beginning the attendance policy enforcement. I honestly have no interest in a mega troop. The CC made a statement that he would love to see a troop of 100. I have the support of the rest of the committee to keep the number at 38 and they like my thought and reasoning. So getting past the gear and transportation issues Am I missing a hidden benefit to a mega Troop????? I think we are better off with two units of 30 boys each vs one unit of 60...... We have a couple of younger brothers in the pipe which will bump us slightly over 38, but I expect us to remain between 30 and 45 from this point forward.

Given the Small percentage of the numbers of Scouters there are and the percentage of active posters..nothing on theses forums represent typical scout anything.. In all my Scouting Experience I have never Encountered any Troops like what yall describe yalls as your "typical" Unit Never been to a Camp except Philmont that allowed 300 feet between Patrols, or had enough miles between camp sites for back packing every day. I sure can tell the difference in the East Coast Scouters and the Rest of the Scouters of America. Last Troop we had around here from that area tried Back Packing to Camp...After 2 Miles humping a Ruck sack in 114 weather they gave up..Needless to say they did not hang with our Scouters much during Camp Activities...even in their ultra light weight tents they had trouble sleeping in the 90+ Weather at night on their sleeping Pads, while our Boys enjoyed their Old Baker Tents and Cots. that is why you camp and backpack places other than Scout camps. if you camp at your local camp then you rent multiple sites that are 300 feet apart. If your talking about a summer resident camp situation????? then we sleep in the camp provided tents and on the camp provided cots.

so why then, at northern tier do you sleep on a pad instead of a cot????

I disagree. Once your on the ground on your pad you are insulated from the ground. Pad R values vary too widely to make a blanket statement about which is better. Air mattresses are a huge no no during winter, because of convection, unless you spend the big bucks on a thermarest which has an R value of 5.7. http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/neoair-xtherm/product which is better than their foam pad which is 3.5.. So your cot and all that air flowing underneath it all night has what R value?????? I contend that once your on the ground and you get your insulating layer warmed up you will be warmer. I am colder in my hammock than sleeping on the ground, and I have spent the money on the proper underquilts. So I disagree? So how many boys are in that Mash tent and how much warmer is it than the outside air????

Someone needs to call the SM on his POR opps. His son might be a complete dork and never get elected....Unless he is 16 he has plenty of time.

Thank you for the morning chuckle Never knew that camping on a cot took any skill other than setting it up. The only time our troop uses cots is at summer camp and they provide them.

So who exactly is your unit commisioner and how or where does his or her knowledge come from???? My point is find a SM who you know is running a successful program and ask them questions. A commisioner is a person who can set through a number of classes just like a cub scout den leader and end up with a certificate. I know of several den leaders who have become commissioners, really???? Your going to offer advice to a SM about troop operations or issues when you have never been in his shoes???? Ahhhh, no thanks. Honestly, if you want to find a successful troop in your area, just call your DE and he will steer you who to talk to. His bonus runs hand in hand with the success of your unit.

from what you said you do not need an SPL. I would remove the position and have two PL's who alternate the role when it is required for an event or summer camp. Honestly, rare is the boy who can be an effective patrol leader at 12 even more rare is an effective SPL at 12.