mk9750

As I posted elsewhere, we do a visit to the VA Hospital with gift bags of socks, t-shirts, toiletries and such. The only week of the year we do not have a meeting scheduled is between Christmas and New Year. However, we have traditionally done an "advancement marathon" on New Years Eve. We have the older guys available to meet with the young guys for rank advancement, then we make MB Councelors for the common MBs our guys do available. Plenty of pizza, pop, and other munchies all day long, from about 9:00 to 3:30 or so. We do this at the SM's house to make it more relaxed. My personal philosophy says it's too early to call this the Christmas season, but what the heck - Merry Christmas to all my fellow cyber Scouters! Thank you for the gifts you all have given me over the year. Mark

SM406, My experience with my sons parallels yours. I remember being scheduled to do a school presentation to grade schoolers and suggested to my son that he could help by bringing his Pinewood Derby car in and wearing his uniform. He couldn't wait to show of his car, but would have quit Scouts rather than wear his uniform. Now, both of my sons have no problem making stops in public places with their uniform on. When confronted with a snide comment, both have developed a great canned speach about how wimpy anyone not in Scouts must be. "I'll bet you never rapelled off a 200 foot cliff. And did you ever kayak a class III? How about hiking 113 miles on the Appalacian Trail? Naw, didn't think so. Now, you want to call me a wimp?" Mark

We do a similiar project this time of year for our local VA Hospital. The boys stand in front of Wal MArt to solicit donations of socks, t-shirts, underwear, toiletries, pens, paper, etc. Most people just give money, and we buy these things for the vets. We usually also buy a small gym bag, or other kind of tote to put this stuff in. On the night of our Troop Christmas party, we divvy everything up and put it into the bags. The Friday before Christmas, we all go down to the VA hospital, play bingo with the Vets who can come to the rec room, and then have a Santa who passes out bags to all. Then we take a few of the older Scouts with Santa on a tour of the parapalegic ward, going bed to bed talking to Vets. we usually hand out around 40 bags in all. Two things have struck me since we have been doing this (7 years this year, I think). The first is that it is amazing how abandoned most of these guys are. The only visitors they seem to get are the Marine Corp League and other Veterans groups, and a small number of groups like us. Most say they won't see their family, even over Christmas. It's unbelievably sad. The second is how much more we get out of going than we give. Every year, the new guys in the Troop need to be prodded into going. After they go the first time, you can't keep them away. Boys have made their parents change holiday travel plans in order to make this visit. We never seem to be at a loss for adults to drive, either. If your Troop lacks a service project to do over the holidays, I strongly suggest either helping out with the Walter Reed effort, or starting your own VA hospital visits. My promise - You won't regret it. Mark

I've typed this one out, because I think it's hilarious, but now that I see it in print, it's one of those "I guess you had to be there" kind of things. Or hear the original. It was on an album (the old vinyl things we used to put on record players) by Henry Gibson (of Laugh - In fame). If you get to hear his version, it's really funny, and the kids love it. Here's the words: Once I had a mule, And I called him Sylvester Found him on a Sunday, down on Seven Oaks Road Wasn't much to look at, He just looked like Sylvester Still, he was strong, and could carry my load. Then, one day, he died. Then, one day, he died. He was standin' by a tree, justa munchin' clover. When he rolled his beady eyes, and he plunked right over. Found an empty field, for to bury Sylvester. Dug myself a hole, then I said a little prayer. Filled the hole with flowers, then I filled it with Sylvester. Covered it with dirt, and I left Sylvester there. Never comes a day, I don't think of Sylvester Never comes a Sunday, I don't think of that road. You can bring back a memory, BUT - YOU - CAN'T - BRING - BACK - SYLVESTER. Still I am strong, and I'm carryin', his load. I also love to sing all the patriotic songs. And most everyone either knows the words, or can fake them well enough to get by until they learn them for real. Mark

Laura, When I first got to these forums, I struggled balancing our troop's program with what I thought I was reading from proponents of 1st Class / 1st year. It seemed to me that Bob and others were saying that a Scout MUST make 1st class in 12 months or the program is a failure. While discussing this back and forth, and monitoring the topic in new threads as they've come up, I came to realize that providing the oppurtunity, and, perhaps, helping with some motivation, was the expectation of the FCFY plan. In our Troop, the boys create a program for 16 months out in May. This coincides with the bulk of our new scouts arriving, so this, unofficially, I guess, is the beginning of our program year. We get a few Webelos earlier, but in general these guys do little more than observe and join in games in their first couple weeks, until all of the new Scouts are in the Troop. (I'm not really thrilled with this, but we've not found a better way to get these guys going quickly without starting over 3 - 5 times when new guys get to the Troop. We have the same situation you do - 5 packs tend to cross to our Troop.) Starting with a mid - May campout, the entire program through August of the following year - 16 months - provides at least one, and in some instances, as many as three chances for new Scouts to learn, practice and be tested on Scout skills. If a Scout is not 1st Class by our CoH after summer camp, in September, 16 months after he joined, he didn't utilize the oppurtunities we provided to advance. As Advancment Chair, I studied the reasons behind boys who don't advance "on schedule", and have come to two conclusions, that cover easily 90% (my number, nothing official) of all the boys who don't make it. They either do not participate in enough activities, or they fail to take advantage of the learning and practicing they did to ask to be tested and / or signed off. The first issue is tough to overcome, because it takes the Scout to have the initiative to get to events and / or Troop meetings to advance. Luckily, in 8 years, I'd guess that the number of guys who were really serious about Scouting but did not advance for lack of participation is easily less than 5. The second reason has been adressed countless times, in addresses to the Troop, in Scoutmaster Confereneces and BORs, and in discussions with parents. Somehow, we can't seem to get all of the 11 - 12 year olds comfortable taking credit for work they do. Some do fine, others seem like they are wishing one of the older guys would walk up tothem and offer to sign their books. And sometimes they do. But more often than not, when I review a boy's status with them, they tell me how they built that fire, or demonstrated that rescue, but never got it signed off, and they are waiting for the next chance to do it again. As to the cooking requirements, I think you and I have a different perspective on rotating duties. For some chores(and certainly for summer camp), chores could and should be rotated. Who wants to clean the latrine all week? But for others, especially cooking and QM duties, I don't see anything wrong with the PL rotating these chores on an event by event basis, rather than day by day. And the cooking requirements set up nicely for this: 1st campout, the Troop Guide cooks and the PL acts as assistant. The next campout, the PL acts as the head cook while assigning (or recruiting) the assistant, who will cook the following month, and so on. In a Patrol of 8 guys, it shouldn't take more than 9 months to get everyone through all of the cooking requirements for all three ranks. Of course, if your Troop won't camp in inclement weather, that makes it tougher. But camping 12 months / year is possible almost anywhere. In Cleveland, our weather can't be much better than yours, and we camp 12 months / year plus. The only two requirements we tell Scouts that we won't provide the chance to complete are the Drug and Alchohol program, and meeting with an elected official. Other than those, a Scout who comes to 80% of the meetings and events has every chance to be 1st Class within 16 months. And we stand behind this as meeting the purpose of the program. I argued with Bob and others about this until I realized that our program accomplishes what they say the plan is intended to do: Encourage the Troop to develop an interesting program that provides the Scout plenty of oppurtunites to advance. Could we try to do this in 12 months? Yes, probably. But we insert a lot of non- advancement related activites into our events, and sacrificing these fun things just to get another requirement covered is not what our guys have chosen to do. Do I get anything for having the most words per post? Mark

I agree with OGE. If a boy just decides he likes something more, and is more interested in committing his time there instead of Scouts, I think wishing him well and making sure he knows the door is always open is appropriate. The first question I ask is what the boy plans on doing with his time that used to be spent on Scouting. If he doesn't have an answer, or if it's video games or T.V., I push pretty hard to get down to an answer. I think we have to face facts that Scouting will not interest every boy. And a different Troop might be more interesting to a certain boy than mine. If we can help the right Troop find the right boy, both can benefit. And it just might be that Scouting isn't going to give a guy what he needs to stay interested. If I know a boy is leaving because of another interest, I feel fine. If it looks like it was the program, I start looking very hard at what we are offering. When it's one guy, maybe it isn't us. If it's two or three guys all near the same time, I've got to investigate. We've had two intances where a group of guys quit about the same time. In one, the root cause seemed to be an ASM who was the Den Leader for the entire group that crossed. He insisted on treating this group like Cub Scouts, even after many attempts to get him to stop. Eventually, he took 5 of these guys and went to another Troop. We feel no sense of failure for this group, although it is sad that none of the five are still in Scouting. The other time, we had an SPL that saw the Troop as his own little fifedom, and each of the newest kids as his personal servants. The adults (me included) hadn't been monitoring things closely enough, because all seemed to be going smoothly. A rash of quittings made us check things out and get them corrected. This was a tough time for us, as it meant more direct adult involvement than we usually have. But two of the four kids did come back, and are doing fine now. The other two loses we feel are directly our fault, and feel horrible about them. Mark

In our Troop, the SPL has always been elected from the Venture Patrol. This is where his friends are, so he and the ASPL have always maintained their relationship with their own Patrol. I see the point that Mike F is making: The SPL being "led" by a Patrol Leader. In our Troop, the venture Patrol actually could go without an elected leader and perform just as well. By the time a boy has been invited to be in the Venture Patrol, he seems to understand what is expected of him. At their Patrol meetings, they take 5 minutes (tops) agreeing who will do what for the next campout, or meeting, or whatever, and then start talking about school, sports, girls, etc. We used to overhear them and try to steer them back to discussing Scout stuff, but it never worked. So we decided to see how they performed without more planning, and all was well. The cook cooked, the KP guy KPed, the fire guy made a nice fire, the QM made sure all of the equipment was there and returned, and it all happened without any one person "leading" the effort. Because it's like that, all of the guys in that Patrol act like equals, and each pitch in. The SPL usaully is attending to other things when the Venture Patrol is divvying up tasks, so he rarely has Patrol responsiblities b3ecuae he wasn't there to say "I'll do that", but if he sees something that needs done and he's not otherwise occupied, he's as likely to do it as anyone else. These guys have kind of perfected the theory that the easiest way to be lazy is to do what needs done. And you know what? They're good at it!

We have fought this same myth in our Troop also. It seems like all of the older guys jump on the younger guys when they feel proud enough of their accomplishments to buy and wear a sash. I have had to remind guys a number of times that sashes are permitted with any number of MBs. Mark

ProudEagle, congrats on such a great Troop! May your unit serve youth for another 25 and beyond! mj, For regular Eagle COHs, we send letters to local and national politicians, etc., soliciting proclamations congratulating the Scout's accomplishment. Perhaps your occasion would be one to consider this for, also. Mark

Since each Patrol in our Troop camps differently, I went through my calender to figure out my son's schedule this past year. January - 4 nights - tent February - 2 nights - cabin March - 4 nights - tent April - 6 nights - tent (although one was spent in the car because they arrived so late) May - 2 nights - tent June - 4 nights - tent July - 2 nights + 6 nights summer camp - all tent August - 8 nights - tent September - 2 nights, plus one Patrol campout that got cancelled for lack of interest October - 4 nights - tent November - 2 nights - tent December (planned) 2 nights - cabin total = 43 nights in tents, 4 in cabins and 1 in a car. They also did a week trip to D.C. where they stayed in a hotel. And I get to brag that probably 18 - 20 of these nights were arranged by my son as PL, either of his Patrol or of the temporary crew put together for whitewater, climbing, etc. He also was the one who had the idea for the campout that got cancelled, too. I was really hurt that no one wanted to go, but he finally understood that anyone who has lots of ideas has a bad one once in a while. Mark

I want to try to walk a very fine line here, because SPLT15 is not in my Troop. I'm not sure I am the right person to be giving him guidance. But if he were in my Troop, one of the questions I would ask is what other options has he considered. Rarely is it that a good Eagle Project is the product of the first effort. Either SPLT15 has considered other ideas, in which case I would want to discuss these with him also, or he has yet to put any effort into thinking of alternatives. If it is the latter, I would advise him he spend some time thinking about other possible projects. I would try to get him to come to the realization that there are hundreds, no, thousands of other ideas he could develop into a top notch Eagle Project. Once he had a few alteritives in mind, I would ask him to compare each against his idea to determine how each meet the requirements. If he could do something else that definitely meets all of the requirements for an Eagle Project, I would hope he would consider changing his plans. If not, I'd have to ask him to consider if he was perhaps not ready to tackle an apropriate project. Either way, I would certainly encourage him to set up the blood drive. He's intent on doing this, and it's a great idea for a service project. We should certainly not discourage any youth, especially Scouts, from doing service projects. It's just that this one is not likely to ever meet the requirements of an Eagle Project. SPLT15, good luck to you. Speak with your Scoutmaster, your parents, and the person at the District or Council level who oversees Eagle projects. If your intent is to do a service project that meets the criteria for an Eagle Project, I am sure that all of you together can come to the correct conclusion. Mark

At the camp we go to every other year, there has been a female water skiing instructor there. Being both young, and often in a bathing suit, she often had a similiar type problem. All of the guys tended to hang around her area during free time. She handled it with a great attitude, if you ask me. But, now that I think about it, every guy in our Troop 15 years and older has water skiing MB. HUMMM?!?!? The world will be so much a better place when unimportant aspects of a person - skin color, or their gender - are overlooked when deciding who should get what jobs. Sure, sometimes it's better to have a guy. Sometimes a girl would be better. But not often. In the other, let's see, 99% of the time, why even notice? Hey, this one's not too long! Mark

Two of the funniests lines I ever heard that pertained to age, if applied to me, would go: 1) I'm 44. You're 36? Man, I haven't felt 36 since I was 28! 2) I'm 44, but saying I'm 39 feels SOOO good, I usually tell everyone I'm 29! Mark

Andrew, If you saw a picture of me, you might be sure that I am 53. 90% grey head of hair, more of a fat old guy than FOG is, and my kids say I'm grumpy. But alas, I'm 44. The 9750 is my street adress. OGE, I spent 3 years in Latin during my Seminary years, but other than The Our Father, the Hail Mary, and counting to ten, there isn't anything I could do right now. My oldest took two years of Latin just recently. I tried to help him his first week or so, but gave up. What was it? a, ae, ae, um, a, ae, orum, is, os, is? see, I told you I am clueless! Mark

Andrew, I'd be happy to tell you. But before I do, how about a little fun. How old do you think I am? Mark

I applaud what Judge Moore did. I think it was a tremendous effort at making a point that is important to him, and one I agree with. and regardless of how modern judges have interpretted the Constitution, he did no violate the Establishment Clasue, in my opinion. BUT - Placing the monument where he did was not within his right, whether it was of a religious nature, a pornographic nature, or a political nature. And his "bosses" ordered him to take it down. He refused. Probably knowing what the consequences would be. But refusing to obey your bosses is usually grounds for dismissal. They have the right to do so. I admire him for taking the stand, and for accepting the consequences he had to know were coming. But he no right to place the monument and expect it to stay. Mark

Bob, I ask this seriously, to learn something, not sarcstically. What is the rationale behind the two extra Committee Members? Is it strictly to make a BOR available, or are there other reasons? Not an issue in my Troop, but I'm just curious. Mark

FOG, I'm right with you on this one. In our Troop, car rides include one of two things. Short trips to the Council camp inlcude conversation preparing for the campout and the trip back includes conversation critiquing it. No music at all (sometimes if there is an important sporting event, we might turn the radio on). On longer trips, each person in the car is encouraged to bring one or two of their favorite CDs. In order from highest rank to lowest rank, each guy gets to have his CD played in the car. then the adults get a shot. It's worth listening to "I hit my mom in the forehead with a shovel - It left an impression on her brain" screamed at the top of some transexual's lungs just for the oppurtunity to expose these guys to some classic music, or even classic rock. I remember my first long trip with the Troop. Five cars. We get to the destination, and four other adults are complaining about the splitting headache they had listening to the screaming innaneness some guys brought. My son and his buddies were into the Beattles at the time, so I had to "endure" Abbey road, the White Album, and Yellow Submarine for four hours. The four other adults sounded like Baseball General Mangers trying to make trades for the ride home. It could have been a profitable weekend for me if I wanted it to be. These rides, I think, are best as social events, not catonically listening to individual stereos. Mark

I also wish my post was more timely, but I also offer a very sincere thank you to each of you veterans individually, and the entire US Armed Forces collectively. I count it as perhaps the biggest hole in my life that I did not serve. At the time, I thought I was too good to be in the service. Now I know I wasn't good enough. At our company's staff meeting yesterday, I added a thank you directed at each of the five veterans in the meeting. Everyone seemed shocked that someone made such a big deal out of it being Veteran's Day. But I could tell that each of the men who I thanked appreciated being thought of. It made me wonder if we do enough for people who served. If a thank you is a big deal to them, we are not treating veterans with enough respect. But for now, THANK YOU will have to do. Mark

My son wanted to do this exact thing as an Eagle project. He ran into two problems. The first was the Scoutmaster, who although he is a great guy, has a thing about approving Eagle projects which are "soft": Without an edifice to point to at the end. Second, he couldn't get the school district's OK to permit kids to be out of school to play when needed. I would have gotten him to press the issue of the SM saying no if he could have overcome the school thing, but it didn't make sense to make an issue out of something he coudn't do the way he proposed it. My youngest wants to raise money to purchase install, and train for Automatic External Defibulators on a local golf course (or more). It will be interesting to see the SM's reaction to that one.

boy, it doesn't take much to remind me how computer - dumb I really am. Mark

A few responses wrapped in one post: Neil, I agree 100% with your sentiment that we should not interfere with the operation of another's Troop / Crew from the comfortable confines of an internet forum. However, OGE's response, when taken in the context of how he says almost everything, is easy to understand as helpful insight, not critisism. Perhaps if he had added the line "You should talk to you Advisor", or something along those lines, it may have been more complete. But I think OGE did a great service to both SPLT15 and to other youth who might have stumbled upon us. Without the ability to ask questions or point out issues, this forum has little value. Although some might say it has little value anyway, I disagree. I think SPLT15, Hopscout, and other great young people get great value from the insights of people like OGE. I know I do! SPLT15 - Reagardless of where you actually stand on your efforts, you should be commended. Even the go getter type kids I am fortunate to know can't hold a candle to the traits you are exhibiting by making the effort to do these things. You keep it up. But remember, the real value from your efforts is what you'll learn and experience, not the award or medal when you're done. Don't take shortcuts. Not because if you do you will have cheated the system, but because if you do you will have cheated you. You sound like a tremendous young man! OutdoorThinker - What an advantage you have over many of your peers. You recognize the limitations that youth places on young adults. You are doing plenty to overcome those limitations, and those efforts will have a profound and lasting effect on you, those who know you, and your world, sooner than you might think. You should be proud of yourself. There comes a time in any endevour when a person knows just enough about something to truly be dangerous. This is the phenomonon that makes young people unsafe drivers, that makes kids think they know more than their parents and their teachers, etc. You seem to have the advantage of getting though that stage quickly in your life. You are very fortunate. To all - I want to thank each of you for what you have given me in the almost two years I have visited this forum. I have learned so much. And not just about Scouts. But about people, myself, and how I view the world. THANK YOU! Mark

I ask this question at every BOR - Tenderfoot through Eagle. It is very rewarding hearing both the thought that goes into a Scout's answer, and the growth he shows from Tenderfoot to Eagle. For me, I haven't figured out how to make an adjective out of the word, but I would say a Scout exhibits perserverence. Mark

When I was a boy, we crossed at the Pack meeting during the month of our 11th BD. My BD is in Feb., so I crossed 1 week before our Klondike campout. I had no skills and no equipment to camp in the winter in Ohio, but nothing was going to stop me from going. It was 8 below zero the first night, and 12 below the next. I came home with frostbite on my toes. Almost had to have them amputated. My mom would not let me go back to Scouts again. Said if the SM didn't have enough sense to bring us home in that kind of weather, I couldn't go. So I never even made Scout. My youth Scouting career lasted 11 days. I have been a Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader, Cubmaster, and the Advancement Chair for both the Pack and the Troop. Never made a dime on Scouting, but my pay is better in this great program than anywhere else I've ever worked. And before my sons camped during the winter, they had both the skills and the equipment to do it properly. Mark

I also agree ith KS. we have a number of boys who have phones. We've never discussed the issue, and it's never been an issue or distraction. I wonder what would hapen if we made a rule. I bet we'd have more problems than we do now. Mark