mk9750

Yeah, that's kind of how I was thinking. I'm sure it's got to be tough in that environment to get role models, to find money, etc. But I wouldn't have thought that the program itself changes. But I want to keep an open mind, so I'm going to wait for Ed, or any one else who has experience working specifically in that setting, to set me straight. Mark

There once was a man who was in a horrible train accident. He had to have his entire left side amputated. He's all right now. Everything I do physically is left handed except mouse. Everything I do mentally is right. And don't forget it! OGE, I'm kind of disappointed. This is probably the first thing we've not had in common! Fun facts: There is a higher percentage of left handers in MENSA than right handers. In that I was born in Feb., I take pride in the fact that there is a higher percentage of Feb. birthdays in MENSA than any other month. Doesn't mean I'

Ed, I've lived in comfortable suburbia all my life, so I truly am ignorant here. Is there a difference between my Scouting experience and the urban Scouting experience? I'm not trying to be flip here, I'm serious. From my perspective, I can't imagine much of a difference. But I've got a very one - sided perspective. I'll agree that Scouting may be more difficult in the city, although that I don't even know for sure, because I've never tried to do it. But I'm struggling to see how it would be different. Mark

KS, Again, I wasn't clear enough to be understood. If the boys set this up on their own, with no Troop involvement at all, I don't see it as a Scout activity. Saying it isn't allowed to be done by Scouts is like saying they can't go 4 wheeling. Of course they can't as a Scout activity. But if a group of people get together to do so, there isn't anything wrong with it. Just because a kid's friends happen to all be Scouts doesn't mean they can't do something the Scouts saay is illegal. In your scenario, I agree with you. Allowing the announcement to be made at a meeting is easily

The only MBs we have any luck at all doing en masse are Rifle and Shotgun, and then only the demonstration of the parts of a rifle and rifle safety. This is basically a canned NRA presentation expanded to about four times their depth because we don't think that their safety program is detailed enough (interestingly, we find the BSA's program even LESS detailed). After this demo, all requirments are done individually. We've tried to do many MBs in groups, in and out of Troop meetings. We can't make them work. My suspicion has always been that that's why BSA discourages the idea: It doesn'

Boy Scouts do plenty of activities, in and out of Scouting. Some of these, they do with all of their friends, some they do with just their Scouting buddies. Our guys do laser tag and paint ball on a semi regular basis. Most of the time, it is with a mixed bunch of Scouts and non Scouts. Sometimes, it's just Scouts that go. But as these are unauthorized activities, when they do them, they are NEVER Scout events. I think if they are defined specifically as non Scouting, and everyone understands it that way, you should have no problem. I'd guess you might run into trouble though if you had a

NJ, Your post hit home a little with me. Before the summer camp we do in PA, we also have a meeting with each of the Scouts to arrange a schedule for completing the badges on which they want to work. I spend some time counseling each Scout on what seems an appropriate badge, so that 11 year olds aren't working on lifesaving without having swimming, and 15 year olds challenge themselves with badges tougher than Basketry. But the real reason for this meeting is so I can write out blue cards for the guys to take to camp. this saves time for everyone at camp (actually, now the Scribe doe

OXCOPS, Welcome back! I like the idea that you're actually planning how to go about this, rather than going at it half baked. You're already halfway to success! I like the idea of involving a college marketing class. I think that sounds like win - win. My only criticism is the initial mailing. Although less expensive than the other tiers, it is VERY expensive per response for the results you'll get. You could probably reduce the cost per hit by having the marketing class do some target marketing to limit who gets your mailing to those who, for instance, are known to spend

This is especially for Bob, but I'd sure like to hear other's comments as well. Eamonn's description of advancement dominating some Troops' program is true, I am sure. But I don't think it is all Troops. I think plenty of Troops keep advancement in it's place: one of the Methods to attain the Aims of Scouting. But I do believe that for a very large majority of Troops the Merit Badge mill at summer camp is accurate. I say this knowing that this is accurate even for my Troop at least every other year. So a few questions: Is hunting Merit Badges at summer camp wrong? Is it st

Bob, Say it ain't so! You weren't perfect? Git outta here! (Please note the tongue wedged with great pain deeply in the cheek.) Mark

We treat JASMs as something between SPL Emeritus and Assistant Scoutmasters when we have them. We don't always fill the position, but when we do, that person (or people) is responsible for all Troop level boy traing. They do Troop JLT, Den Chief training, and they are responsible for following up to make sure boys who have been given presentation assignments are on schedule, and assist them if they need help. I don't think we do this intentionally, but all of our past JASMs have been 17 years old. Coincidence? I'm not sure. Mark

Laura, I think you've got it right. Now all you need is half the committee to agree with you, and regardless what the icon says, you can make the program work. Keep working on the folks on the committee. Either get them trained, or unofficially "train" them yourself. Almost all of the program, when described properly and supported with the "why" makes sense. People of intelligence will understand if you lead them there. Good luck! Mark

We have had two boys who over the course of two or three years, just could not get themselves elected or appointed to POS. I don't mean to sound judgemental, but it was understandable. The SM used this option to provide an oppurtunity for both boys to advance. They were both given younger boys who were struggling to advance, and were basically appointed to be individual Troop guides for these younger Scouts, guiding them to advancement. One had to get a kid from just short of Tenderfoot to 2nd class in order to make Star, and the other had to get a kid who had been stuck on Tenderfoot a long t

Rooster, Although I suspect you're right about parents not being too keen on th idea, (and everyone please try to take this the right way) we don't care. It's a great idea, the boys had it, and I think there is a whole heck of a lot of reason to do it to support the Aims. If they decided they want to do it, it's valuable, and it's done within some framework so that it remains civil, it's going to happen. Parents can decide to keep their kids home that night if they want them to miss a great educational event. We don't much care. I was the one who suggested to them that they include a

After thinking about it, I worry all I've done here is create open season for each side of the "aisle" in our little campfire to take pot shots at each other. I hope we can refrain from that. This was not intended to move the debate over which party is better to this forum. I'd love to leave it in our kid's hands. Mark

It never ceases to amaze me what this program provides our boys. After the monthly PLC on Tuesday, one of the boys was assigned to sending an e mail and following it up phone calls to advise everyone in the Troop that Troop elections were scheduled for the last meeting in Sept. At the bottom of his e mail, he added a blurb about thanking a Democrat if we saw one for a whole litany of things that this boy found wonderful about Democrats. One of the other boys responded with all of the things that are bad about Demograts, and all of the great things about Republicans. It went back and

Rooster, If I indicated my son thought the money was tacky, or that he didn't appreciate it, I'm sorry. That wasn't what I meant. I was very proud of his reaction: Appreciation and a sense of humility. I was the one who thought that giving money was not in the spirit of the event, which I phrased as tacky. Hopefully, you'll let me get away without explaining my reasons for feeling this way, because I don't think I have any reasons. It's just the way I feel about it. Mark

Sorry NJ, but I have to disagree. There IS value in teaching boys how to cook using a recipe and not premade ingredients. There IS value in teaching the proper uses for even those things that can become evil (and there is a place for it in Scouting). There IS value in using the oppurtunity to discuss how the difference of opinion between the SM and the campmaster could have been resolved better (I'm not suggesting that we should bring alchohol just to provide a reason for these two guys to argue!). And lastly, I don't think there is much difference whether the bottle was c

Here's what my oldest son did in the same circumstance, although you've got to be careful, because there's a fine line: It became very apparent to our oldest son, the SM and I that my younger son felt "overshadowed" by his older brother, the SPL, the guy closing in on Eagle, the "star" of the venture Patrol outings. We all agreed that the younger son needed to find something that he could "star" in. Both were taking kayaking through the American Red Cross in preparation for a spring outing. My oldest son arranged to have to work the weekend of the planned outing, leaving his younger

In the past, core adult leaders in our Troop presented the new Eagle with something special. One of our ASMs is a tremendous wood carver and wood burner, and he has gotten in the habit of wood burning canoe paddles for each Eagle Scout that are just unbelievably beautiful. I usually give each new Eagle Scout a Good Turn Coin. Our SM usually identifies one trait or experience that stands out in his mind about the Scout's career and makes a presentation of something related to that. The 1st Eagle COH I attended was for a boy who, on the SM's first campout, brought along a lounge chair. This happ

Ed, You're right, it was your post that prompted the memory. It's obviously not been a pressing issue for a year, so it really isn't a big deal now. Just thought I'd ask since I was thinking about it. Mark

Thanks, great reply. I hesitated asking anyone from Council, figuring I might be stepping on someone's toe. I was particularly glad to see a couple of sugestions that included the potential Den Chief's participation. I have a real aversion to doing presentations that involve all lecture, but I had almost no ideas myself for trying to make this more hands on. The time frame that your ideas need might be longer than I have been given, but that may just mean I have to ask for more time. but in the meantime, any other ideas, anyone? Thanks so much. Mark

And again, great responses show me I've left a few points unclear. It was the campmaster who had the problem with the sherry being at his camp (there's an endorsement for disallowing possesive words in Scouting!). This happened over a year ago, and although we didn't make it a big issue, none of our parents had any complaints. One commented that they were suprised that the adults don't bring a bottle of wine to share with some of the gourmet meals the boys prepare. It is the practice of the boys in our Troop to make things "from scratch" at the campsite. If a meal of this magnitude w

Does anyone have material they would be willing to share covering Den Chief Training? We had an adult who was going to do a Troop version of this (our Council's DC training never seems to coincide with our need to train Den Chiefs in the late summer / early fall). but she has unfortunately let us down and I have been asked to do this training. I only have 8 days to prepare. I could probably come up with something from my experience as a Den Leader, but I'd rather use real information than stuff I make up. Our Council office just confirmed that they either never had, or no longer have, vid

In another thread, mention was made of marinading in wine. It reminded me of a bit of a controversy our Troop found itself in a few years ago. We tend to cook in one of two manners: Very simple (hot dogs on a stick), or very elaborate (smoked pork roast, veal parmesean). Every elaborate meal our guys cook comes from either our Troop cookbook, or from a recipe they bring from home (which, once a year, we vote whether to add to the Troop cookbook). For one campout, one Scout brought a recipe for a meat based Spagetti sauce that included cooking sherry. While packing for camp, the Quart