BadenP

Eagle92, I am willing to bet that the only group that will even be given that option is the LDS church. In fact I bet that the option you refer to will be dropped in venturing as well in the near future, mainly because coed means just that, the program is designed for both boys and girls to participate equally. I am sure it will be legally challenged as well if the boy scout troops do indeed go coed. Time will tell, and the only ones who will get rich will be the lawyers,lol.

Maybe it is just me but the supply division selling a $300 book on the history of scouting and a $500 Founders Knife to celebrate scoutings 100th Anniversary just smacks of crass exploitation and commercialism. Now I know that no one is required to buy these items but with the supply division crying financial woe and the raising of uniform prices very soon is this the best way to be spending their financial resources? They could have just as easily produced a $50 book and a $75 knife and probably would have sold thousands of them, instead their warehouse will be sitting on a large supply of these over priced items for many years to come. As a result I just bet supply will find a way to pass this cost on to us with higher priced and cheaper quality supplies.

OGE, Now there you go again feeding those rumor mills and starting the flamers going, lol. But I have to agree with the rumor it is way overdue, especially after spending the last six years with a coed venturing crew.

Hey Broken If you went to National training in 2006 and are a former DE you only stayed in the profession a year or maybe two, not a very long time. Why did you leave?

I have to agree with OGE's post, why reinvent the wheel there are plenty of good exsisting outdoor training programs available. I was recently on a district camporee and witnessed a SM give a boy in his troop a can of lighter fluid to start a campfire, telling hom to drench the wood good then stand back and throw in a lighted match. How the heck this guy ever got to be a SM is beyond me. Later I questioned him about it and he said he didn't like to have his boys waste time with traditional techniques, which he admitted he was not very good with, and lighter fluid was what he liked to use whenever he went camping. Now if this isn't a scream for more outdoor skills training, I don't know what is. It would be interesting to see on a National level just how many SM's and ASM's take training beyond the basics, especially outdoor skills which should be mandatory for EVERY boy scout and venturing leader who take their youth on hiking or camping trips in order to get their their tour permit approved

Broken It would help to read all the prior posts and the topic before you post a bunch of irrelevant information to the topic at hand, just some friendly advice from one former pro to another.

National is just like the government, create a new position on staff rather than looking at the Webelos program itself. Problem #1 - two years is one year too long to expect the boys to stay interested in Webelos, they get bored and drop out, period. Problem #2 - every pack should have a troop or two that the boys participate with, at least in their second year.

Maybe National is hoping that all the computer nerds they want to recruit into scouting will read the handbook online because it's doubtful they would ever buy a paper handbook, not technical enough for them, lol.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Boy oh boy OGE and you accuse me of being too tough on Mazzuca, lol. At least my issues were concerning National policies, and I never called the CSE a fatty boy, unlike some, lol.

Tahawk I hear what you are saying but I think Beavah is dead on in his anaylsis of the current WB. WoodBadge is considered the pinnacle of scoutleader training yet its emphasis seems a little off target. Outdoors is more than a method of scouting it is the centerpiece around which the rest of the program was developed and therefore should be the center of all WB training around which you incorporate the management and relationship pieces. Having been to both WB programs over the years and having two very different style training teams I can relate to those who say not enough of the outdoor skills in the current program. Management styles and relationship methods do vary greatly with different industries, as Beavah stated, but the outdoor method is something all of us in scouting share equally and really should be the focal point around which the WoodBadge program is developed and taught.

OGE I don't care whether you agree with me or not, but the facts are the facts. Benedict just after just being elected pope addressed a group of newly ordained priests and stated this dogma of the Catholic Church that "We are the one true Church, and it is only through the Catholic Church can we hope to obtain true salvation." This speech created quite a scandal it was published on the Vatican website and major newspapers and can still be accessed on the internet and occured right after he made the speech about the Jewish people having to convert and unite with the "mother church" in order to obtain salvation, which I find hilarious because God made his original covenant with the Jews several thousand years before the Roman Catholic Church even exsisted. Right after that speech the head Rabbi in Rome broke off all ecumenical talks with the Vatican, and Israel condemned Benedict for that statement and that is the way it remains today. So OGE, sherm, and Eamonn believe what you like but the facts are the facts and are available to anyone to view. To quote a scripture , "They have ears but they do not hear, and eyes but they do not see." You are welcome to pretend all is perfect and thats fine with me. Heck, I bet if Jesus Christ himself came to you all in person and told you these same facts you would probably try to convince him he was wrong too, lol. So why don't you try to learn more about what your faith truly states as dogma and doctrine, I have and its not all the milk and honey you think it is. Take your potshots at me all you like but none of it will change the facts.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Eamonn & sherm You know the old saying " a liitle bit of knowledge is dangerous", and I see it applies with you two as well. Keep your heads buried in the sand but the truth is out there and you continue to not see. Yes JP II was a great ecumenical pope but the new guy has managed to undermine everything that he had accomplished and is continuing down that dark road, priests are at an all time low and in our archdiocesan paper it recently had an article stating that in the USA 75% of all priests and women religious are over 63 years old. As far as homosexual priests try Catholic Apologetics, Intl website for one. OGE you must not have looked very long, there is another article written by a priest, Fr. Ryan, and many others waiting to be read if you are truly interested. I know you and Eamonn will refute any information that disrupts your belief that priests are speciallly connected to God, which is yet another false teaching so you are both welcome to keep your heads buried in the sand and pretend its not true and stay naive, it is your religious right, however the house of cards is beginning to fall and then how will you deal with it?

erickelly I don't know what you want but you can go to the "Holy See" Vatican City website and find most of any documentation you want as well as on the internet you will have hundreds to choose from and you can pick and choose. As for the dogma of being the only one true church leading to salvation look at any catechism or read any catholic propaganda book and there it will be in black and white or you could even ask your priest. The sad truth is that most CAtholics are truly afraid of asking their priest any question where they might look as if they were challenging a church teaching but that is the only way to expose false teachings for what they are. If you want a good book reference written for the average layperson try The Story of Christian Spirituality, Gordon Mursell, I guarantee it will open your eyes and cause you to question.

sherm For your benefit I have a Masters Degree in Theology from Notre Dame and a PHD from Harvard Divinity School, I worked for the Catholic Church for over ten years and was a Catholic for forty years, now do you still want to discuss what I know about the Catholic faith versus your understanding? Everything I stated in this thread can be substantiated by numerous resources and some personal experiences.

Come on Eamonn are you living in a bubble or what? The Catholic Church has always and still teaches that they are "the one true church and the only road to true salvation." Check you Baltimore Catechism and any encyclical by the current pope. As far as the studies on gay priests research the topic online there are many studies and surveys from a large variety of groups and organizations available. The hypocrisy that has been going on in the Catholic Church is why I chose to leave it after many years Eamonn, I got tired of being an ostrich Catholic (bury my head in the sand, deny what I saw, pretend it was not true,and hope it would go away.) Look at how many large city Archdioceses have gone bankrupt, Boston, Los Angeles,Portland to name just a few. Many Catholics are waking up to the truth as to the falsehood of the Church's infallibility doctrine, which is in direct conflict with the Bible, and are leaving in droves in this country. The Church is in panic, mainly because of the lost revenue. Pope Benedict stated he would rather have a much smaller Church than one filled with those who want the edicts of Vatican II to be followed. Benedict's greatest desire is to return the RC church to its pre 1950 status and get rid of all the teachings and changes of Vatican II, and has stated this publicly and in writing. At least the ELCA is being open about the issue, whereas the Catholic Church threatens their members with eternal damnation if you speak out against them, which is another teaching NOT supported by Scripture. So believe what you want Eamonn, it is a free country.

Every faith faces this dilema with their clergy, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, ELCA, etc., etc., some just hide it or refuse to acknowledge it better than others. For example RC priests are supposed to be celibate however several national studies showed that over 65% of priests interviewed admitted to being openly homosexual, while most of the rest admitted to having homosexual leanings. The abuse scandals in the Catholic church a few years ago and into the present have led to a massive drop in white middle and upper class white parishioners in large urban areas. As to the ELCA at least they are being totally open about the issue, unlike my prior example, and its membership can make their own choice. After all no one religion has an exclusive on getting to heaven, even though the Catholics like to think they do, and people have a right to choose the place where they feel they receive the best spiritual guidance and support.

I too agree with both Beavah and Eamonn, its all about quality not quantity. I have seen more than my fair share of merit badge mill troops and camps during my many years in scouting and the boys learn and retain virtually nothing. So I would rather see a boy have a good solid scouting experience and work on the 21 required Eagle merit badges than be impressed with a sash full of merit badges the boy raced through to get, rather than truly earn. These other achiever scouts remind me of those adults with row after row after row of knots on their uniform, but that's another topic, lol.

Since the amount is less than five dollars I don't know if you want make enemies at the council by pushing too hard, I agree it was wrong if they intentionally did this rather than it being a clerical error. I also agree with others that you either have the cash or council credit card in hand before you buy anything for the council, they know better and so should the volunteers. I however do not see this as some kind of devious plot on the part of council to skirt tax law, that makes no sense business wise or ethically, and those here advocating that need to get a good dose of reality.

Interesting site Buffalo, I did notice that there was no Venturing/Sea Scout Commissioner patch, and I don't think I ever saw any commissioner wearing one in my council. This is probably because they can't find enough commish's to serve the packs and troops, which I think is sad because I think a quality commisioner could be a excellent resource of helpful information and advice to all those struggling leaders and units out there, instead of being looked at as an enemy or spy as many leaders view them. That is one job in scouting that really doesn't get the respect it deserves, and thats why it is so difficult to recruit volunteers to fill it.

Many moons ago when I was a webelos leader we took the boys to talk to the police and fire department behind the scenes, the boys got the experience of being locked in a cell, and at the fire department a chance to see how fast they could put on all that equipment for fighting a fire. More importantly they got some quality talk time with the police and fire guys about what makes a good citizen, also, near the town was a Marine base and they got to see what serving your country in the military was all about. For the finale the den got to do an opening flag ceremony for the city council meeting, received a citation from the mayor, who was also our district chairman, and watch local government in action. The boys seemed to love the experience and in our small town these activities were easy to arrange back then. Keep it light and keep it fun!

SM steve, what SMT224 is saying is what I was trying to say as well, that these courses really are much too involved in their present form to ever become required training, maybe if they are revised somewhat, sorry for the confusion.

Because Brent I still think of it as my council as I only moved 3 months ago. Quit trying to make a melodrama out of this because it makes you sound even more pathetic than you truly are. to quote "It is better to let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Why would I have to hide the story, I left the names out because I wouldn't want a bunch of dimwits, like yourself, writing letters to the council or National trying to stir up trouble for no reason. You are truly a real piece of work Brent, I bet you were the class bully in school, as for me I find you a sad and pathetic soul who has no business being a scouter and influencing boys with your particularly nasty type of venom.

Brent you must be from Dimwitty, GA not Dunwoody, lol. The council this was in was my former council until I moved 3 months ago, okay do you understand now or do you need me to draw you a picture, you really are a piece of work georgia boy, lol. The story is true but I am not going to name names and places on an open internet site for obvious reasons.

Brent read my previous post as it applies especially to you as well, the council was my former council until recently when I moved. As to which council it is NOYDB, nuff said.

Shortridge First of all the council this occured is not the same council as I am in. Secondly, where do you get off acting so high and mighty as some kind of expert, which you are not. Thirdly, why do you even care about this event, its none of your business in the first place. Lastly, I relayed this story because I thought it was a great story and would add to this thread not to have some blowhard pass judgement. You really need to get your priorities straight and grow up a little buddy!