BadenP

regi First of all I was not attacking Crew21, your initial post was not at all clear what exactly you were trying to uncover. I quoted you from Hillcourts book on BP that the original group disbanded shortly thereafter so this new group had no affiliation with BP's group at all or the BSA. Your first post "does anyone know about a group called the Scout Order of Druids" is erroneous to start with, there never has been such an organization that has had anything at all to do with scouting, even BP's group plain and simple, including this group you are alluding to, which I seriously doubt even exsists. In any case Crew21 decided to attack me and I responded that is all it was, and that is between Crew and I anyway.

One more time for the hard headed(Crew21, this is not a scouting group by any stretch of the imagination, even if they are trying to recruit scouts it still does not make it a scouting organization or an affiliate of it. If they wear a scouting uniform while attending or performing any function of this whackadoo club that is a violation of official BSA policy. This is one of those groups that wants to return to the good old days of scouting with I am sure some further motives. So regi forget this group,its an insignificant group at best, and if they start infringing on BSA's trademark for their own promotion Nationals legal office will make short work of it. Crew21- get a life already.

Crew21 For pete sake, what have you been reading or do you pretend to know regis thoughts. He never said ANYTHING about being contacted by any group but rather he came across some information about the order. So once again Crewman you know not of what you speak, so maybe it would be best if you keep your own interpretations out of this. Maybe find yourself a good mystery book to read where you can try to insert your own erroneous conclusions, lol.

Crew021, no insult intended just facts and observation based on your post so please quit your crying, than you. There is no scout group officially sanctioned by the BSA called the order of the druids operating currently and that was my point and I was quoting BAdenPowell himself regarding the group. Second point even if there was a group like this operating today, which is extremely doubtful it has nothing to do with BSA. Crew021 why don't you try staying on topic for a change instead of complaining and whining, lol.

vol scouter don't try to mince words here, your feelings about the left wing politicals are well known in this forum as in the tone of your posts here. So tell me vol where do you stand on this issue, which will I am sure confirm my post is correct.

Sorry emb021 I meant to say Crew21Adv, similiar usernames, you are druid free, lol.

Broken and Eagle, There will always be a small percentage of those volunteers and pros who may not like you in any council, the trick is how to turn them to your side. Remember your training at National? We learned how to find that right spot for that problem volunteer in district to make them feel part of the team they had been bashing. As far as pro staff I had three SE's come and go during the almost five years I was there, but I had two districts, was OA Staff Advisor, JLT Staff Advisor, and Asst. Camp Director, so I was pretty busy most of the time. For me making friends was a lot easier than fighting with problem people.

vol scouter, This is not a case of left wing versus right wing it is a case of having class and respecting the dead versus showing no class and a total lack of respect for the dead. From your comments I see you chose the later position, you and Rush to name just two.

vol-scouter I agree with Gern all you are doing now is acting malicious against someone who served his country for a long time, not to mention you are not being very scoutlike with your unsubstantiated rumor mongering. Get over it already.

emb021 Man you love to nit pick, they are garden gnomes, and while you might not put them outside someone else might, and where do you see them to be limited editions? Designed by an artist yes but all they really are is more overpriced made in china junk. By the way do you work for National Supply?, lol

Now I have seen everything! National Supply is now offering scout garden gnomes starting at $200 to $300 each, wow what a deal, lol, made in China too no doubt.

Lisa I have to agree with Hal, for me these online trainings leave a whole lot to be desired. Maybe you should talk to your council training committee if your trainings have been so bad about improving the quality, sounds like a Train the Trainer class is in order. Truth of the matter is that most scout training, except for Philmont Training Center, live or online are insufficent in delivery or information to deal with the needs and demands of being todays scout leaders. However I will never see the logic in online over in person training for scout training since so much of it is hands on, except for the fact it probably makes the councils trained leader stats look better.

First of all it was not a scout group but "a group of 12 upper classmen" from BP's school called Charterhouse, "they called it the Druids after the name of the first president WW Drew.", " the club died a lingering death two years later as the interests of the members drifted elsewhere." pg 28 Baden Powell, the two lives of a hero. So don't go getting all excited everyone, it doesn't sound like this club ever amounted to anything much, so emb021 your iconic imagery of Baden Powell can remain intact, lol.

Ok everyone knows Teddy was no saint and he himself was haunted by his own past. This story is so ludricous that it is funny. But how many of you realize the tremendous record he had in the Senate getting bipartisan bills passed one after another to help the less fortunate and the average Joe, no other senator comes close to his record and isn't that what we elect our legislature to do? But the guy is dead and any kind of divine retribution due will be handled by a higher source, not us, so let the guy rest in peace whether you liked him or hated him. I have never been a Teddy fan but I do respect the work he did in the senate and the way he raised his own and his brothers children. The old legacy has passed away now it will be interesting to see how the next generations of Kennedy's will make their mark. OGE, I stand corrected on your take, sorry, mea culpa.

Broken I find it hard to believe that all or most of your people were there to cut you down as a DE, unless you maybe weren't doing your job. All of my volunteers in both of my districts and I had great respect for each other, even when we disagreed, same is true for the council staff and board. Yea you work your butt off but most of the time it was well worth it. Sounds like you weren't tuned in very well to the needs of your district and your volunteers, just an observation from your comments.

OGE Do you work for the tabloid press or what? What a load of BS, I guess deep down you want to go to work for TMZ, time to come back to reality dude, lol.

Twocub, now you know how it works in the world of professional scouting, it is a whole other world from volunteer scouting. Money talks and enough money reaps ample rewards. Eamonn, you know I read your post three times and I really think you hit on something. Those of us over 40 remember the scouting of our youth being so much more easy going, not worrying about YP but instead using common sense and having a lot of fun. Nowadays its all about money, money , money,more and more rules and regulations. You are so right those guys who really cared about scouting, were scouts themselves, and kept our councils going are mostly all gone. Nowadays I don't know if even the volunteer scouters can keep the program alive with little to no help they receive from the council these days. Ah! for the good old days, lol.

dc Your example of luxury cars just proves my point, if National wants to make money on the centinnel thats fine, if they want to make some high price items to award big donors, then great, but to put in the supply division catalog and online a $300 book(worth about $50), and a $500 knife (worth about $75)is nothing more than taking financial advantage of the volunteers who really want a keepsake for the anniversary. I bet both items were manufactured in China as well. Good ole boy Mazzuca.

Look this topic comes up every few years, and as early as 20 years ago, and nothing has happened yet so don't sweat it. National would never and could never afford to lose more than 50% of their units for noncompliance, the whole program would fold up like a tent. As far as those online trainings, a good PR move on Nationals part but the quality and retention is a joke. You can skip the entire YPT presentation to the end, take the test, pass it and not learn a darn thing. The same is true for all the other online trainings, at least in a class setting there are verbal exchanges so the instructor knows who and who hasn't got a grasp of the material. So you watch if ever National makes any training mandatory it will be offered online and made easy to become "certified".

No sherm a floundering council should first be analyzed as to why its not doing well financially, usually it is due to poor management by the SE. and many times it could be saved with new and competent management. The sad fact is that once a professional is made an SE National allows them to move from council to council, even if they are incompetent instead of firing them as a corporation would do. This results in allowing them to financially bankrupt one council after another, that is what happened in both merger cases I experienced personally. In one case the SE got the council in massive debt with a large balloon payment they could not make, the result was the scout camp, scout office and all councils assets were liquidated in bankruptcy and the council was merged with one fifty miles away. If National doesn't hold the SE's accountable for their actions then who will? Sometimes it does makes sense to merge two councils, but most of the time it is due to plain mismanagement.

sherm The problem with your theory is that rarely if ever does the merger of two councils benefit the boys. After going through two mergers myself what it mostly creates is much greater frustration in getting assistance, adequate training classes, and even greater inconvienence in obtaining supplies necessary to run your unit as the scout store is always out of stock. The only positive is that it cuts down on overhead expenses, but that also means cutbacks in camps and services to the units.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Tex Mex I saw a 50 year Philmont patch on ebay today, with the gold border, it was only $5.99, buy it now option. This is the only one of these I have seen in a while, better hurry if you want it.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Tahawk I don't disagree with you, I was talking about the average scout leader who is in it only as long as their son is, or even less. The type of vounteer you are speaking about are getting to be a rare species. Somewhere between 1910 and today National created even more layers of professional scouting, like regional offices, special interest groups, etc, and like the government before long created the huge bureaucracy that exsists today each with their own special mission, and few if any of them supporting the volunteers. Bottom line National is in it to raise enough money to support this huge complex of professional scouting and when times get tough they fold or merge councils that are supposed to be directly serving the volunteers. Why not start at the top, do we really need to have an Assistant Chief Scout Executive? There are many other top spots and departments that could be eliminated as well.

Thanks OGE I forgot about those items. I was talking mainly about the stuff being sold right out of the BSA supply directly. emb21 I have seen that $300 book with its reproductions and it is not worth a third of that cost by any comparison you want to make. I have similiar books on the Civil War and WWII same style reproduction documents and both were priced well under $100. My point is that a $300 book and a "choke" $500 knife are a little over the top and I will bet you that they produced many many more then they will ever sell. I am with scoutldr, if you are going to collect scout memorabilia stick to the real thing, it will be cheaper than the book or the knife, lol.

Direct to the topic, as a former pro and a long time volunteer I can tell you from experience that both entities are needed even though the relationship is sometimes adversarial. Councils deal with a lot of behind the scenes minutia that volunteers do not have the time to handle, camps, paperwork, reports etc. Another sad truth is that many volunteers come and go, and the chaos you hear about in other units is usually caused by a lack of consistent long term leadership. Now the question does the council really look out for the best interests of the unit? In theory the answer is supposed to be yes, but the reality is not really. The National BSA is nothing more than a corporation, and the council pros are salesmen whose job it is to sell as many of the companies program products as possible to maximize membership and money being brought into the council. That concept is automatically at odds with the units needs for support, training, and resources necessary for them to deliver a quality program to their youth. The professionals goals are to create more units to increase their numbers and have more contributors for FOS,and to buy BSA products, once a unit has been created they are kind of left on their own to fend for themselves.