BadenP

emb021 It must be nice to see all things as either black or white with no shades of gray. The fraternization policy you throw around is a guideline aimed at Venturing to mainly prevent things like a 20yo dating a 14yo crew member, or a 22yo assoc advisor dating a 15yo youth. A 19 or 20 yo crew member dating a 22yo assoc advisor is a whole other matter, legally they are both consenting adults, and as long as they leave their relationship at the door at meetings and curb it on trips it does not have to be a problem. The BSA can not mandate what two adults can or can not do especially during their time away from crew functions. YPT is there to protect the youth of the crew from being exploited by adults and to protect the adults as well.

Vigil I agree with you about going to a UC, the problem is in many cases this kind of stuff happens because there are no UC's visiting the units. This is a huge problem in my council where almost all the commisioners, save RT, are in name only and totally inactive. The council commish keeps crying there are no volunteers who want to be commishes, but since he is a close and personal friend of the SE it is impossible to get rid of him. The result is a lot of this kind of nonsense is going on on the unit level with no one to go to for help. So when they go to the DE its all about numbers and money.

Scoutbox, I had that happen in my crew, an assoc. advisor dating a crew member. He knew it was against BSA policy but she was almost 19 and he was 22 and rather than lose both of them they agreed that at meetings and outings there was to be no physical contact and that proper protocol was to be followed. They lived up to their words and there was no problem for the entire year. The next year they got married and she dropped out of the crew, when she turned 21 she rejoined as an assoc advisor and both are doing excellent jobs for the crew. You can't stop human nature, but you can curb it a bit, lol.

Did any of you really think that just because a National rep said something that it would become a reality? The truth is that National is so disorganized since the restructure that no one seems to know what is going on anymore, not even the CSE. A friend of mine at National told me that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing anymore,very little inner office communication going on compared to the past, and a general lack of focus and direction by the powers that be.

I would have to agree with Beavah's last post. Councils do not like to get involved with unit problems unless the kids are being put in harms way. Usually if someone comes to a DE complaining the usual response is either, "let me help you find another troop", or if the DE finds out that a number of the parents and scouts are upset the answer might be, "have you thought about the idea of forming a new troop?" Bottom line, in the councils viewpoint a troubled unit is the ideal situation for the DE to start a new unit.

The terms cool and rad have been obsolete now for quite a few years. The in term now is tight, if it is tight it is fun and cool for all you old timers out there, lol. However scouting will never be cool or rad or tight, it never was intended to be and not every teen will ever be attracted to scouting period. Even Mazzuca's ridiculous ideas to transform scouting into some type of futuristic computer online oriented program will be doomed to FAIL. Why, because those, youth and adult, who love scouting truly know what it is all about and no one wants to see it change into some form of geek space camp.

emb021 To answer your question even National doesn't even know what Venturing is supposed to be about. In 1998 they came up with a great new approach to scouting for older coed teens, where advancement is not part of the program, then Mazzuca took over reorganized the entire National structure and the original Venturing program fell into a great black hole never to be seen again. By the way I still disagree with you about bronze, gold, and silver being advancements and not recognition awards, which was their original purpose in spite of what some recent Venturing pub's may call them. Venturing is suffering because National is trying to pull it in all directions and has their heads up their collective asses in the process.

You can't go wrong with a DO if you know what you are doing, I have a new one and a 50+ year old one. Sad to say the old one cooks better and more evenly than the new one. Took the DO Cooking Experience class in our council years back, and some DO classes at the UofS, it was the most fun and best scout training I ever received. I use coal and/or wood on mine, depends what you are cooking.

To all you Bear fans out there did you see the critics review of his show today on the net? They panned his show as where nothing ever really happens to him or on his show saying it was all a cheap and dull theatrical series of stunts. I have only seen it once myself but I was rather unimpressed. Is this the kind of guy you really want as scoutings spokesman? Just curious what you all think.

uz2 You seemed to have missed the point, the booing was an unscoutlike and disrespectful response to the office of the President first and foremost. This behavior runs contrary to what all scouters should be teaching their youth about being good citizens. And yes I would demand the same respect for any President, Bush included. IMHO your condoning this behavior does make you a bad or irresponsible scouter, not a bad person, since it runs contrary to the scout oath and law.

The sad part is fglover that this kind of crap is still going on in some seminaries world wide, especially in Mexico, Latin America, some parts of Europe, even in the USA. The best solution IMO is to have priest candidates go to mainstream coed Catholic theology schools instead of these closed seminaries, this would be a great way to start the elimination of this problem. In addition I think it would also give these priest candidates a much better and more informed view of the world and the people they would be helping.Pope Benedict however is against this proposal saying that these priest candidates are special and holy and should be kept seperate from the lay people, which is why this problem will continue to crop up now and in the future. My answer to Benedict is hogwash.

I agree with Tokala, except for Mike Rowe's talk I was unimpressed with the show that should have been showcasing a major milestone in BSA history. Instead the show, and the jamboree as a whole, was a bunch of cheap poorly done theatrics and crass commercialism. Even the CSE with his own stage fraud stunt did little more than cheapen even further the whole event. IMHO National once again screwed up what should have been one of the youths greatest scouting memories into something amateurish and ridiculous. Did you noticed just how little press coverage there was of the jamboree nationally this time around? My crew were not too impressed either. Sad, sad, sad.

fglover I have been an ordained minister for over 12 years now I am also a licensed pastoral counselor. Several of my clients are priests who have been referred to me by the local bishop, or ex priests trying to pull their lives back together. These are their experiences and stories. I was also a RC for much of my life and have had experiences with pedophile priests. Like it or not the Catholic church clergy is seriously in trouble, the laity has little knowledge about how deep this problem is within the church. Respecting a faith does NOT mean ignoring a deeply rooted problem within the clergy that people put their trust in.

What is missed here is that RC priests are both predators and homosexuals based on the environment of the seminary high schools and seminaries, not their sexuality, where young boys are assigned to older classmates as a sort of servant and is where the abuse begins in many seminaries, especially in the 70's and before. The older priests prey on the boys convincing them this deviant behavior is somehow holy. The saddest part of all is that these boys become men are ordained and take this deviant behavior with them to their parishes. In the case of the RC church this is more of an institutional problem than anything else.

Gern In the area I was in I did speak out, especially to the leaders who started to calm down and shushing others. Then my crew officers started reciting the scout law getting louder and louder until other youth joined in. I was never more proud of those kids, and in our immediate area the booing stopped. "And the youth will lead them." I saw some of the scouts actually apologizing to my crew members for their behavior. A small victory in a sea of scouts but a victory none the less.

Listen I was there and heard and saw it all, and all I can say that there were a number of scouts and scouters who acted very unscoutlike, period. You here defending or rationalizing the action are being unscoutlike as well. Look, I agree that Obama should have been there or at least done a live two way feed, but he still is the President and all that action did was to put the BSA in a very bad public light. The BSA as we all know has been declining as of late and all this did was to give the BSA critics even more ammo to discredit the organization. Any scout leader condoning this action or allowing their youth to participate IMHO should resign their membership immediately. This event was yet another very embarrassing moment for the BSA, and one that we will have to live down for a long time to come.

I have to agree with Scoutnut, this is not as big a deal as you all are making it out to be, and if it really is that important an issue to you vote him out in 2012. The BSA is at a milestone which is very true, but it is equally true that the organization is not as prevalent, mainstream, or as relevant in todays society as it once was. I agree that Obama is making a huge mistake not going to jambo but that is his decision and scouters should not be so full of themselves as to think that they deserve special attention. As far as the View interview is concerned, it is much easier to control the situation in a studio then in an open air arena. Besides as we have seen in this forum most scouters are not big supporters of Obama anyway. The boys will still have a great time at jambo and that is the most important thing. Writing you Live from the Jamboree I can tell you my crew, staff and I are having a blast visiting today. Wish you could all be here.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

evry Yes scouts own is supposed to be completely nondenominational which many scouters do not seem to understand in this forum. It is not a Judeo Christian Muslim Jewish hodgepodge of ideas or theology. In the true sense it is supposed to be a way to hear some positive uplfting stories, not from any religious text, and to then quietly reflect on your own individual image of the divine. Scouts Own is NOT supposed to be a worship service or a replacement for any worship service, which many here also don't seem to get. What Scouts Own allows is for a group of scouts from a wide variety of different faiths to all show and feel a sense of reverence for what they hold to be the divine, without being subjected to preaching or indoctrinal messages of ANY individual religious tradition. After the 9/11 bombing this entire country came together in a way unpresidented way, that day everyone of us were Americans first and only. I was in NYC when it happened and watched, and experienced firsthand as complete strangers came together hugged, cried, and prayed for hours together. That experience was more powerful and more spiritual than any religious service I have ever been to in my entire life. Sometimes what we view as sacred can be found in the most unlikely situations and places.

Gern I guess this a case where the badger took your stick away and starting poking you back, lol. Still I am going to miss you around here when you are BANNED FOR LIFE, lmao. So buck up, I hear that Beck is looking for interns, good luck.

Anyone who believes the trash that spews from Glen Becks mouth is even dumber than he is. (if that is even possible, lol) Frank, this hoax demands you close this thread, it is a disservice to the BSA and its entire membership. Gern IMHO you should be banned from this site permanently.

Beav Your argument is treading water at best, you seem to want your cake and eat it too,can't happen here dude, you are either one school of thought or the other. As far as your advice at the end it would be nice if you heeded it yourself, you start out punching and hostile, spouting your own version of theology and worship then accuse others of taking it too deep into theolology when you and John have already done so. Too little too late Beav, you may be able to argue legal matters but your theology leaves a lot to be desired, no offense intended.

To John and his crew Gentlemen, I have two graduate degrees in Theology and Religious Studies as well as being an ordained Christian minister with a church of over 600 families. I have studied and analyzed scripture probably more than all of you put together. All that aside what John stated in his last post was nothing short of Christian bigotry, superiority, and arrogance. The Bible was never meant to be used as a weapon to denigrate others which is what John did. Taking scripture out of context, in that last post which he did, and then claiming to be able to speak for God and knowing how and what God thinks is in theological terms Apostacy. Christian prejudice, superiority, and political agressiveness seen in the last decade plus has been nothing short of self serving hate mongering. Jesus said himself to the people, "Give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and to God that which is God's." Many modern day Christians have tried to influence both and failed. Christ did not start a new religion, he brought a new way for us to live our lives in peace and harmony with one another. Humanity took these teachings and turned them into a myriad of faith traditions which often ran contrary to the original message, and then took the scriptures and used them as a weapon to conquer, denigrate, and kill others who did not agree with them, even among their fellow Christians. Your attitudes about Scouts Own mirror that same attitude, even if you disagree with it none of you have the right to try to dismantle it or deprive others from using it. Your attitudes remind me of the hypocrisy seen in many of the Christian churchs today.

Gee John I didn't know that you can speak for God or advise us what he considers to be an abomination? Are you omnipotent as well? The worse kind of bigots I have come across were always the religious ones. God is not an entity with such a small focus as your religious views seem to be. Do you really think you are doing God's work with your unfounded accusations and condemnations? And please do not quote bible passages taken out of context to defend your precarious position.

Whoaa Eagle92, I don't know where you get your information but you are incorrect. Venturing Awards are restricted items just like scout ranks and merit badges, you do need to fill out an advancement award sheet to purchase them. This is stated very clearly in the Venturing Leaders Manual and Venturing Handbook written by National. Boy scouts can not earn Venturing awards unless they are also dual registered in a Venturing crew, each is a unique program. That is the correct answer.

I can understand why some of you diehard Christians do not like Scouts Own because it is not Christian oriented enough or puts Christianity on par with others. Let me let you in on a little secret, God is not a Christian only God, he has exsisted long before the birth of Christianity and will be around long after Christianity is gone. Nor does God have an exclusive pathway to heaven for Christians only. God is the creator of all living things and as Genesis states when God created the world "he looked out and saw that it was good." You know the Catholic Church states unconditonally that they are the only true way to salvation, as do many other Christian faiths. We as a people have become so ethnocentric in our faith traditions that we have to denigrate other faiths, even among Christian groups, to justify the superiority of our own. That is not Gods way, or the way of Jesus, or the Buddah, etc. so it really amazes me that we humans claim we can speak for God, that is the true apostacy. "They have eyes yet they do not see and ears but they do not hear." Peace!(This message has been edited by BadenP)