AvidSM

A agree with Bob White - you are way too involved. You make no mention of the District Advancement Committee or the benefiting organization's involvement with this scout's project. The project should not have started without the approval of both these parties. I would assume since you approved the project that you had reviewed it and it met all the guidelines, including the need for the scout to demonstrate leadership. The fact that the scout conducted the project without using any volunteers from your troop does not mean that it failed, as you have stated. If the scout had all the right approvals, completed the project to the satisfaction of the benefiting organization and he demonstrated leadership while doing so, then he has met the requirement. You can confirm the leadership part with the volunteers who were there. If they tell you that the scout did not show adequate leadership and was not in charge, then you can withhold your approval. Otherwise, the requirement has been met. It sounds like both you and this scout have some confusion as to the Eagle Project process. I suggest you contact your District Advancement Chair and get his or her advice. Then do the right thing as far as this scout is concerned.

How is Wood Badge not a National course? The Scoutmaster of a Wood Badge course has to sign a statement saying he/she will follow the syllabus EXACTLY and not make any "local" changes. I would assume the Scoutmaster for NYLT is also required to follow the course syllabus. I am sure that there is some leeway in the outline, like playing a team builing game of your own choosing or have each patrol conduct a one-hour conservation project. I think there is no harm in keeping the old traditional name, as long as you add the "-NYLT" as per the syllabus and you don't customize it to the point where it no longer meets the goals of the course.

To me, taking ownership of anything means you care about it. It's like the difference between owning a car and rening one. If you own a car, you take good care of it: you maintain it well and don't abuse it. A rental car is something you don't care as much about or even maintain. So it goes with any scouting position. You have to care about what you do - make sure the program happens the way it should - get the right training so you know what your job is and how to do it right. And, you don't abuse or overstep your authority.

I don't know if it's dictated by National, but a plain or scout related T-shirt policy for Class B's has been in my troop as long as I can remember. It makes sense because some T-shirts can be quite offensive or erotic. If you are ever in New Jersey, just visit the boardwalk in Wildwood and you will see. Even with this policy in place, I have seen some of my boys push the limit with some of their T-shirts they wear. I have seen the beer shirts, like Rolling Rock and Heineken. I have also seen the "tour shirts" for bands like Grateful Dead and Ozzy Ozborne. The words and images printed on these shirt are contrary to the scout oath and law. How can you teach a boy to be mentally awake while he is wearing a tee shirt with the symbol of a pot leaf on it?

Because I can either sit in front of the TV and watch all the bad that is happening in this world, or I can get out and do something about it.

I can see National's point of view about Tiger Cub leaders in that if you force them to lead themselves, you are creating a new batch of adult leaders, who if they stick with it, will eventually replace the current leaders with the experience. Retaining Tiger Cubs and their leaders should have the highest priority in the district. If they can't get to the training, the training should come to them. Also, what about a "Pack Guide" position - someone with experience who can coach and advise these new Tiger Cub leaders? This position would be like the Troop Guide, who's job is to help the new scout patrol leader(s). UC's and other District types should be focused on doing everything they can to help out these new leaders instead of blaming them.

I have hiked the Billy Yank twice. The second time I took a GPS unit and I can say for sure that it is more that the nine miles as it states in the old trail guide. It's more like twelve. Plan on it taking all day. Both times we had lunch at the crest of Little Roundtop near the 140th NY Regiment Monument. This made sense because it is about the halfway point for the hike. There is a parking lot nearby, so we had a vehicle meet us there with cold water and our lunches.

I've heard a statistic used about Cub Scouting retention - that 75% that started as Tigers are lost by the time they get to Webelos. I don't know what can be done about this. Another statistic, which is my own observation from ten years in a troop is that 40% to 50% of the crossed over Webelos are lost after one year in the program. Some join without knowing what Boy Scouting is all about and find out they don't like the program for a host of reasons - one of which could be they don't like to camp. In some cases the parents are too overprotective and don't trust the leaders to keep their sons safe. A lot of boys are not used to spending an extended period outdoors. Look at the number that don't wear coats or jackets - even in the winter. They are used to being driven in SUVs everywhere they go - school, the movies, the mall and aren't outside long enough to need one. The other reason I see for scouts dropping in the first year is they get overloaded with too much homework and other activities. When this happends, parents will set a limit on the number of activities and make them choose the ones to keep - and they don't choose scouting. What's worse is the one's who stay on the troop roster, but miss meeting after meeting because every week there is something else that is more of a priority to them. I've new scouts that have signed up and paid for weekend camping and then not show up. I also don't know what can be done about this. Our troop schedules really cool campouts - we launched model rockets at a navy base at our last one. And, our meeting are focused on perparing for the next campout with skills instructions, patrol meetings, etc. All the campouts have a theme which the boys select. I guess we live in different times now. Boys are spoon-fed everything they need to know and are not taught to take on responsibility. I see this more and more with the new scouts coming in. I read that more adult sons are still living at home well past the age of 21. Not getting married - not getting an apartment. I couldn't wait to get out on my own!

I agree with all of you so far: #1 - Scouting has an image/branding problem. Most boys do not like the unform, and the new one coming out is not much different. Some of the scouts in my troop have told me outright that their friend do not know that they are scouts - because they do not want them to know. #2 - Scouting is a volunteer organization - mostly parents who are doing their best with the training that they can get. #3 - Scouting does not effectively market itself to its target audience. #1 and #3 are issues for national to solve. Nothing can be done to improve #2. Tigers feed into Cub Scouts, which feed into Boys Scouts. Very few non-Cubs join scouting (I've only seen one in ten years that stayed). The best thing we can do to improve the Boy Scout numbers is to improve Tiger/Cub Scout recruitment and retention.

I agree with evmori in that a SM conference is a chat with a scout. To answer your specific questions: 1. There is really no set standard of what needs to be covered - it's not a "Scoutmaster's Reveiw". Use the conference to touch base with the scout. Find out what he thinks about scouting and the troop. Get to know the boy better - get him to talk about his family, school, church and other activities. Review the needed requirement(s) for his next rank and get him to set goals on what he needs to get there. 2. Ask the questions that will facilitate what needs to be covered in 1. above. Try to put the boy at ease and get him to open up to you. If the boy goes off in a certain direction - let him go. You may be one of the only adults in his life that takes time to really listen to what he has to say. 3. ASMs can conduct scoutmaster's conferences. A good Scoutmaster will encourage them to do so. Good ASMs make good SMs. Also, see ScoutNut's very good link to BSA's web page on the subject.

I would guess for the same reason they are changing it again - it probably looked outdated. Boys are more likely to wear the uniform if it is more in line with their current concept of fashion. For example, they don't like shorts if they are cut above the knees. One boy actually told me if they are too short, it is considered "gay".

Scoutingagain stated, "Conditions this spring turned out to be more dangerous than they had encountered in the past and I suspect they were not aware of how bad the conditions were until they got on the river." I would suspect the same thing, and ask if any of us had a canoe trip planned for this weekend, how would we check the condition of the river? Who would we call or what web site would we go on? And where specifically in our training or the Guide to Safe Scouting does it tell us to do this? At what point do we change our plans or call off the trip? The only general guidance I could find in the G2SS is the statement, "All participants in activity afloat must be trained and experienced in watercraft handling skills, safety, and emergency procedures." Does this mean I must know enough about the handling skills of a canoe to know its limits in certain river conditions? That when conditions exceed the craft and handling limits the trip should be postponed? I ask these questions that we all might learn from this tragedy.

I see what you mean - the past few years of Cub Scout decreases affected the Boy Scout numbers downstream. The opposite affect will happen if the Cub Scout numbers increase in this and the next few years. Let's hope that happens.

By the time I was awarded my beads, I did not care for them as much as an object, as I cared about the things I accomplished in order to earn them. They became a symbol for what I did and inspired me to continue to do more. That's what is meant by an annual ticket.

Stosh, I see your point in that its hard to teach servant leadership to scouts who don't care. But that is not a good reason to throw your hands up and not teach it at all. I have seen one or two scouts in my own troop who I know don't care about the people they lead. This I know by their actions. They are told to call their patrol members to make sure they know about the next campout - only to find out that they didn't and now your are rushing to get the word out. This is the type of poor leader who does not get reelected. So I would think that a true boy-lead troop can self-correct when a non-caring leader gets elected. Scout Oath and Law - Servant Ledership - these are standards that we hold out to the boys in the hopes that they may, by being active scouts, learn to uphold themselves. We don't teach them - we teach the object lesson called scouting. It is the means by which they learn to be responsible people. Perhaps we all learn by parroting first, and then we actually apply it to real-life. Scouting is not real-life, but a sandbox of it - I've heard it called a "safe place". Do the boys who don't care realize this? Is it not real enough for them? Or are they so used to having someone else do everything for them that they don't know how to take only any level of responsibility.

As I said, TLT is very dependent on the Scoutmaster. This could be a good or a bad thing. TLT in the hands of a new or untrained Scoutmaster could be taught poorly, like a three-hour-long classroom lecture. If done right, it engages the scouts and allows them to become part of it. For example, in module I - Introduction to Troop Leadership, I start it off with a question posed to the boys, "What parts of the troop organization make it boy-lead?". This gets them thinking and talking right off the bat. I only moderate the discussions that follow and do not lecture or dictate the correct answer. They usually come up with that on their own fairly quickly. I use PowerPoint and only reveal the question at hand. Each slide, or group of slides, follows the TLT outline. I've sat through and given many presentations at work and know all about "death by PowerPoint" - this is not like that. The way I run it, its more like a team meeting - especially during the Stop, Start, Continue Assessment Tool in Module II. I reserve a big chunk of time for that. As I said before the boys get really engaged in it and its no longer a training course then, but a full-fledged PLC meeting. Many good PLC program ideas and decisions about troop policy, which have actually been instituted, have come out of this. I run TLT every time a new PLC is elected, which is twice a year in my troop. I encourge all PLC members to take it, even if they have had it before - mostly because of what I have explained above. Other non-PLC scouts are invited, but don't need to retake. Many boys choose to sign up for it multiple times. I had one boy attend three times - he just likes it. No doubt, boys learn the majority of what they need to know by doing it. But, they have to have some basic knowledge of how the troop works and what is expected of them. Sure, you could throw them in the deep end and let them learn this on their own. But, I believe that takes more time and causes more frustration then if you just sat them down for three hours and led them in meaningful discussions about it. A contractor would not want to run a job site with carpenters who don't know which end of a hammer to hold, or electricians who never wired a box before. Perhaps the people who don't like TLT never figured out how to make it work effectively. As I see it, its a whole lot better then the old course with its outdated videos and games. The only fault I see in TLT is that it too flexible and relies too much on the Scoutmaster.

If the SPL and ASPL are parroting gobbledy gook from TLT training, then it came from the person leading the training and not the course. TLT only has a very thin outline of what you should teach - the majority of the course material is made up by the instructor. I have taught TLT several times, and it works for our troop. I focus the boys on what their job is and how they should be working togehter as a team. They really like the Start, Stop, Continue exercise as it gives them a chance to speak up and be heard - even the quietest boys start talking. They also like the discussion about the goods and bads of boy-lead and patrol method. I always say, If you don't tell them - they don't know. In other words, if you never told them what their job was and who they should be working with, how do they know? Should you let them find out through trail and error? TLT should not be a long lecture from the Scoutmaster. It should be an oppportunity to get the boys talking and thinking about how youth leadership works in a troop and what role the adults play in it. TLT provides the basic foundation for their leadership training. The rest they have to learn by doing. Heap on the encouragement and praise when they do something right. Give constructive critisism when they do something wrong.

I do the same as Trevorum. I even go so far as to give the new parents a handout which gives them guidelines for parents camping with the troop. I list both good and bad reasons why a parent would want to go. Here is what it says: " Some parents are curious as to what camping with a scout troop is all about and would like observe it for themselves. Others are thinking of becoming an adult leader in the troop and would like to start learning about the program first hand. Some just love to camp and will take any opportunity to enjoy the outdoors and the fellowship of other adults. These are some of the right reasons why a parent would want to camp with the troop. Unfortunately, there are some parents who want to camp for the wrong reasons - without even realizing it. Dont go if you feel your son will spend more time with you than with his fellow scouts. He must learn to rely on them and his Scoutmaster instead of you. Dont go if you know you are the kind of person who must be in control of things to maintain order or you get frustrated when you see others not performing to your standards. Your son and the rest of the scouts need every opportunity to make decisions on their own and practice their leadership skills. Dont go if your son says hell only attend if you go too. You must foster your sons self reliance so he can take his first steps towards adulthood. Give your son the courage to take that first step. Dont go because you are uncomfortable leaving your son with strangers. Take the time to get to know the troops leaders beforehand. You must place your trust in their years of experience and training. You must realize that from the adult leaders perspective, you are the stranger. Being allowed to camp with the troop is a privilege which they extend to you - one which can be revoked if you fail to follow the BSA rules and troop guidelines."

Yes, most of my outdoor play time was undirected and usupervised. But, if I did anything wrong, my mother knew about it before I got home. Somebody was always watching us... My son aged out before I took over as Scoutmaster three years ago. As to BrotherhoodWWW's comment about those without boys in the program - it's a two edged sword. I can't be accused of playing favorites and care about every boy equally, but I miss not having my son in the troop. I missed him the most at summer camp.

$25 per person for a weekend Council cub scout event may be reasonable, depending on what you are getting. Food costs have gone up and the fee for renting portajohns has also gone up in one year. If you don't think you are getting your money's worth, you don't have to go to events like these. The only problem is that you can't shoot BB guns unless you have someone trained certified to run a range. Popcorn sales are a source of funding for Council - that's why they push it so much. The money that Council gets from these sales does not pay for events like Cub-World, which is self funded. It pays for the operation of the Council office - the salaries of the professionals, rent, heat, supplies, etc. The problem with not participating in popcorn sales (or FOS) is that it increases the burden on the units that do. It also forces the scouting professionals to focus on raising money instead of supporting their units.

Beans, beans, there good for your heart ...

Being a Roman Catholic myself, I sometimes do things which make me feel guilty about doing them, like not attending mass on Sundays. But, I know that it's something that is not that big of a sin and can be forgiven. If you read the G2SS, and then go do something stupid while scouting, you should at least be thinking to yourself, "gee that was really stupid, I could have hurt someone, I better not do that again!" The dangerous people in scouting are the one's who have no clue if what they are doing is safe or not. If there was a web site where Adult Leaders could post stupid ways in which their scouts got hurt while camping, whould you heed their advice? Would you care if some of the post were in bold lettering or not? Where do you think the rules in the G2SS came from? A persons animosity towards authority should not prevent them from learning from other peoples mistakes.

As a scoutmaster, I have seen various degrees of over-involved Dad's in my troop. Some don't interfere with the program, some do. One Dad interfered so much that we had to pull him aside and give him a talking to. By we, I mean me the CC and one of my SA's. I talked to him several times before this to get him to back off, with no effect. After we all talked to him, he backed off, but was in a sore mood. After a while he slowly lightened up and started helping out at the committee level. I have another Dad that goes on every campout his son goes on. This Dad does not interfere with the program at all and is a real nice person to have around. However, several times during the day his son will come over to him and ask for something or ask him a question. I've asked him if he would like to be an assistant SM, but he says he doesn't have the time. It's really not an ideal situation for his son, as he is not learning to rely on himself or his felow scouts for help and he's not gaining self confidence. I don't think he gets to spend much time with his Dad other than campouts. I've learned over the years to really stress the personal growth benefit of scouting with the new parents. I give them a handout which gives them the guidlines for camping with our troop. I make sure to mention these guidlines at our WEBELOS open house and new parent's meeting. It helps nip it in the bud to some degree, but I still get that one Dad who wants to do too much. I call it "New Parent's Syndrome" - just another thing a scoutmaster has to deal with.

Yes - our Council is going from 6 districts to 4. Two district are to be merged this year. Three will be reorganized into two next year. The reason given is there is not enough money to pay for 6 separate DE's. And, it is hard for the DE's that are covering two districts to attend two roundtables, committee meetings, etc. The fact these reorganized districts will not be getting better service does not matter. The only thing that matters is the money. So, when a scout's parent asks you why they should give to FOS, there's a good reason why.

We sell food also, soda, donuts and coffee on a table with a tin can to collect donations. We also made up a patch and sell that as well. Our roundtable really does not need a lot of funding to operate. Most of what we earn goes towards our sunshine fund. All of our district evnets, Klondike, camporees, merit badge fairs, are self funded.