lrsap

It's good to hear the replies so far. And I should also add that the situations I describe are from an extremely small amount of Scouters. We really have some great leaders in our area. Just one of those things that the actions of an unfortunate few can overshadow a lot of great work by the many, and it's the negatives that leave a mark. And that is a great observation about the collection of many youth and leaders from different units working together can lead to some misunderstandings. We just have to remember the adults need to act like adults when that happens.

The thread about how Council/District events are run got me thinking of an issue regarding these events. When an event, such as a Cub Scout event is staffed by adults and youth, do you find the youth being treated with a different level of respect then they would if they were just scouting? It's just that during my observations at these events, something happens to some adults when they have youth that "work" for them instead of youth they are leading. The shouting and disrespect I see directed at some youth makes me cringe. Now please do not get me wrong. I have also learned that when you employ young teenagers, you have to be on them. Some more than others. But it seems to me if you have a youth that is staffing, you have two options on how to treat them. 1) As you would if it was any other Scout/Scouter environment, or 2) As you would any co-worker (possible better option with older youth). It seems to me some people go for option 3) Treat them like the rented mule they are and guarantee they will never staff again.

Our Cub Scout events are adult led, adult and youth staffed. Boy Scout events are adult led and staffed. One day I would love to have a Cub event led and executed by the lodge. Something tells me it would be great, especially for the Webelos.

So far not too great of an impact other than to give the drivers a little break on activity costs where it applies. Thankfully we haven't had to change any plans because of the cost. But I can see when it comes to annual budget time this being it's own category instead of an "other" type expense.

We recently had a camping trip where my PL son, who is really working hard to get FC by Summer Camp, wanted to work on some of his requirements that he has left. I told him fine, but as a leader he has to remember it's not all about him. I told him like I will all my PLs that I can offer guidance in his advancement if he takes the lead in helping his patrol advance as well. He took to this well. A couple of things he has left to work on are his cooking requirements and his lashings to make a useful camp gadget. In the kitchen, he did a good job of making sure the boys that needed certain TF or 2C requirements assisted him accordingly. Those guys did pretty well as I expected. The actual running of the kitchen, however, was not a smoothly run operation at all. Kind of a "Ok, I lit the stove, now where are the eggs?" sort of thing. It was pretty easy for me and the 16 year-old that serves as our main trainer to agree he did not do the job well enough to get the requirement signed. But it did lead to great troop meeting conversations about camp kitchen organization the next few weeks, and a PL determined to redeem (his words, not mine) himself. The lashings and camp gadget are what I found most interesting and eye-opening for me, and the inspiration for the thread title. He worked on his lashings for two weeks before the trip, and put together a tripod lashing with shear lashing flag pole. With this, he was going to have his patrol members needing TF work on their flag raising and lowering requirements while earning his FC ones as well. So here I am, all puffed up dad and SM, thinking how fantastic this was. Along comes the 16 year-old before the flag work starts. "That tripod could be more sturdy. And the shear lashing is a little too floppy. Try that again." So here goes PL son, undoing and starting the two from the beginning without a complaint. And guess what? He could do better. And he did do better. I learned a lot in a short amount of time. Basically, if I can acquire the resilience of a 13 year-old Patrol Leader and the tough, uncompromising standards of a 16 year-old Trainer, I might make a somewhat decent Scoutmaster one day. And the 16 year-old did sign off on the camp gadget, the old softy!

OGE, nope, Gulf Ridge. But we are doing summer camp at La No Che. The vegetarian angle is interesting. One good thing about it I would think is at least you know the menu will have vegetables!

OGE, we're hanging out in Central Florida. I'll be easy to recognize. I'm the guy with the dazed look on his face trying to figure this whole thing out! MIB, so true about the low/no skill meals. That's where I need to be a little more on top of my game. Maybe a walk-by during the patrol's planning meeting with a "You guys can do better than that, can't you?". I just got a present in the mail for them, a really cool foil cooking cookbook.

Had an interesting moment at a camp-o-ree event recently. It was the first multi-troop, scheduled event camping for almost all the guys in the troop. The guys are still working on developing their cooking skills, so the experienced guys told the young guns to think about quick meals so they aren't late for flag ceremonies, activities, etc. I liked the advice, but admittedly should have paid more attention to the menu, or lack of a menu, they planned for themselves. Long story short, dinner on Saturday wound up being hot dogs and chips. Lesson learned. At this point, an SM from another troop comes by and asks what we are doing for dinner. I actually felt kind of bad when I said the guys were cooking hot dogs for themselves. That's because I kind of got a condescending tone from this guy as he talked about the beef, potatoes and other things his boys would be eating. I felt a little better when, as my guys were cleaning up after their frankfurter feast, I hear this guy from his troop's area yell "Hey guys, get your plates! Dinner is ready". I felt even better the next morning when the young guys in the troop were making their bacon and eggs while Mr. Beef & Potatoes had the boys in his troop lined up with plates as he is making pancakes.

The noble and honorable BEAVER

Tonight I'm about to do my first Scoutmaster's Conference with a boy that will be earning his Star rank. Funny, the honor of our troop's first one was given to my ASM, since it was my son. Anyway, I've been reading up on what some good questions to ask will be and I think I'll do ok. I definitely want to come through for the Scout with this. But I got to thinking, I have learned quite a few things from the experienced Scouters on these forums (Gold Bond at Summer Camp! ). I would love to hear from some of the veterans here as to some of their tried and true SM Conference questions that you just don't find on Google.

Eagle92, the minor cut is a great example of things that people like me (a CS Leader) had to deprogram myself of when I made the jump. A lot of things are easy to recognize and let go. The QM does his, the Scribe does that, etc. But giving a kid a hand with a small cut on the finger, that's just being nice. Heck, it can be friendly, courteous and kind, not to mention just the normal reaction of what anybody would do in a normal situation. Once I started to recognize and let go of those type of circumstances is when I really started to learn what it meant to make the transition.

First of all, BD got me and appropriately so. In an attempt to come up with an attempted humorous reply in support of the OP I totally glossed over the most important point. While mistakes were made that can be evaluated and corrected, this troop is obviously doing something right. Four boys, alone in the woods did not panic and did everything right. And that above all should be the what we take from this story. The one thing I have to take exception to is from Beavah (whom I have taken and applied many things from on these forums). Beav, the comment " Four well-equipped and experienced scouts being out for a night perhaps doesn't constitute an emergency, eh?" is one that most certainly can be in the eye of the beholder. When you take the same situation and describe it as "Well Mr & Mrs A,B,C & D, we really don't have any idea where your boys are on this river, but they know how to build a fire so I'm sure they're ok". I fear the governor's red phone will be ringing off the hook to dispatch the National Guard.

Just to make sure I'm on the same page, there is no reason a Patrol Scribe can't wear the patch, correct?

I fall in line mostly with drmbear. If this is a WS outing or activity, then it should be planned as what scenario would YOU be in when you needed these skills. Are you a troop heavily into canoeing? What do you take away from base camp when you hit the river? That's what you've got. Are you lost on a patrol hike? What you would normally take from camp is what you've got. To me that is how you make the most of the WS skill development. This does not mean the plane crash or big list of WS supplies can't be a great event with lots of teaching opportunity. It just seems to me to be a role playing type game instead of a WS exercise. I do find it interesting that some Scouters that allow cell phones would take them away as they went on the outing. I would treat them as any other item in the backpack. If it's normally there, it goes. If not, it stays. This is because it would be interesting to see their reaction when the battery dies.

But...but...but....Baden Powell didn't have a cell phone! I know it can be pure folly for one to say "This is what BP would say about this!". However, this is the man who said to be prepared "..for any old thing". I could just see him saying "Let me get this straight. One of the most valuable pieces of wilderness survival equipment was on the person of these young lads, and you took them from them because you were afraid they would get wet? How about we stop molly-coddling them and teach them waterproofing techniques and responsibility?". The thing about this specific situation is it really isn't about the typical "Scouts & cell phones" debate that many good, heck great Scouters find themselves on opposite sides. Since they were left at the campsite, that decision was already made.

Really! Good to know. For some reason they didn't have that on the website. It will come in handy for the one boy I have doing his Wilderness Survival MB, as well as the boys who want to do that swamp hike thing.

I know there are more than a few of my fellow Floridians on these forums. My new troop is going to Camp La-No-Che for our very first Summer Camp. Any sage insider advice?

By talking to them? Perhaps in the spirit of an older brother? I think I heard that somewhere. I probably will never be the SM of a troop larger than 20-25 boys, because I don't want to become an unreachable CEO of a youth group. My question would be, why in the world would only interacting with one boy in the entire troop be ideal? I fully fall in line with the thought that Scouts should be teaching Scouts. But if I happen to be on a camping trip one day and a young scout and I happen to be standing in the same place staring at the Big Dipper, there's a good chance I'm going to show him the North Star.

I have to be honest, the thread about an SPL inviting himself of a Patrol Outing makes me think about how much Kudu's theory of not needing an SPL makes more and more sense. When I started posting about my new troop, one of the most frequent pieces of advice I received was "Don't worry about an SPL for a while". I wish I had listened. Oh well, live and learn. But if good, experienced Scouters of this forum think an SPL is a luxury for a new troop, then how does it all of a sudden become a necessity? In the specific example, based of only what I read of course, it seems you have a boy who wants to lead. For that I congratulate him. The problem is where the mid-management positions of SPL and ASPL leave a boy. When the supreme goal is the Patrol Method, where we encourage yells, flags, spirit and individual identity, how can the boys in SPL/ASPL positions feel anything more than left out. If this SPL were instead a PL of his own patrol, he wouldn't feel the need to hitch onto another patrol's outing. I'm just trying to think why is an SPL any more necessary to a well run troop than say, a Historian? Not saying it doesn't have more responsibility, just why is the separate position necessary. There isn't anything an SPL can do that 3 or 4 PLs can't. And don't worry. If you just do Patrol Leaders and need a boy to take point for the troop, you'll find him. He will already be there with the rest of his patrol.

My personal goal for our new troop is a minimum of 8 this year, and hopefully 10. At this point, the schedule the we worked out with the boys has us on track. Funny thing, that was two moths ago and they have gotten to the point now where I would involve myself a lot less if we did it today (but I digress). I would have to differ from Beavah ever so slightly on this one, though. When the boys are working on the next calendar and they are adamant about this one really cool thing they really want to do really really bad, and it's indoors, I wouldn't have a problem being convinced. If I see the next few events that hit the calendar all include HVAC, then we need to talk.

"If we're goin' to talk BS, let's make it Boy Scouting". Oh my Lord Beavah, that may be the greatest thing I have ever read here! When I use it, I will be sure to give proper credit where due. Roundtable is coming up, so I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity.

" But yeh hit a certain size, and then a quiet, more shy boy gets lost in the shuffle with so many things goin' on. Having a set of "requests for SM conferences" or other such tracking efforts helps bigger units to make sure lads don't get lost and adult time gets used effectively." Beavah, I concur completely. But I must say that if your unit is so big you loose the connection with the boys and you have to invent too many processes just to keep up, your troop could just be too large.

Congratulations! I just wanted to say that this is a fantastic idea. You may think you are just doing what is nice, but you are about to create a very special moment in someone's life. Great job. Without really knowing any detail, perhaps also sharing a memento that represents the relationship might be nice, if appropriate. My son already has planned to give his first Den Leader a framed certificate that he earned at a Tiger Cub event.

We have seven in our 6 month old troop right now, with some heavy recruiting coming up. As far as what I would like to see, I think 24-32 would be just about right for me. Of course, I would never tell a boy we have reached our limit, but that doesn't seem like an issue I will need to deal with for a while. If you can effectively run a unit with anything over 50 youth, I will not only applaud you but also ask you for organizational and time management skills. But for me Scouting is something I do for enjoyment and running a small corporation does not sound fun to me.

Kudu, You would be happy to hear that we had a great camping trip this weekend, and what made it great was what I was able to learn from the absence of one specific Scout. Our 13 y.o. PL was unable to make the trip. Totally planned, sometimes you just can't make it. Anyway, he worked with his patrol in getting ready for the trip without him and I thought he did a good job. But when it came right down to it, the young guns just weren't up to it at this point in time. A lot of deviation from the plan if you get my drift. I was getting close to my "I have to do something here" point, and the two older boys must have sensed it. Without me saying anything they flew in and got them on point, organized and doing what they knew they should be doing if they weren't, well, 11 year-olds. For the rest of the weekend they assumed the natural leadership positions of sort of a co-PL, working together in providing leadership in different aspects of the trip. The better cook showed the boys some kitchen skills, the other organizing clean up, etc. This is all to say when we get our new patrol in, the plan you described sounds like it will work perfectly for my guys. The normal 13y.o. PL has shown in his absence how much his guys rely on him. And running a bunch of fresh faces sounds not only what the 16 y.o.s should be doing, my eyes have no been opened to the fact that this is what they will enjoy much more than I thought. And as someone who was never a Boy Scout, and just a "Cub Scout Survivor" leader, it's one thing to read about this stuff. To actually see it in action is an amazing sight indeed.