Lisabob

I don't think boys life promotes advancement. It gives the kids some good ideas that might, sometimes, possibly in a tangential way, contribute to advancement. But to say that BL promotes advancement is placing too great an emphasis on the influence the magazine has. One very roundabout example I was aware of: a boy in my son's troop used an idea he got from an old BL to cook a turkey in a mailbox. That was part of a patrol cooking competition and it might have served to help with some of the T-2-1 cooking requirements or possibly cooking MB. But again, that's a pretty thin connection from BL to advancement! The turkey was tasty, though.

Suppose for a moment that the kid was telling the truth - or at least, that he believes what he told was the truth (perceptions matter in situations like this). What would it say about the adults in the room for the committee to bring up this difficult and emotionally fraught issue at his EBOR? I don't think that is trustworthy, loyal, friendly, or kind, to do that to a kid. You, SM and committee, owe this boy more respect than that. To do that to a kid is a betrayal. If what you want to do is truly to help the kid, or the family, then there are better avenues. Be the young man's friend. Let him know he can continue to count on you, and that your support does not end the day he turns 18. Tell his step-dad that you've thought about his off-hand comment, and that you really think (as step-dad's buddy) that the better way to handle this would be for family members to consider talking to a professional about it - but that "consequences" (whatever that means - huge red flag in my mind!) should certainly NOT come from an unrelated youth program, and certainly not from out of left field when the kid is least expecting it (at EBOR). Just don't let this be fodder for EBOR. Totally out of bounds.

Because band is FUN. High School bands around here go places, do things, and offer a sense of belonging and identity to kids from a variety of backgrounds. This is especially appealing to kids who aren't ever going to make the A-string of the football team but still want to be part of something larger than themselves. Aside from group identity, there is a huge sense of accomplishment in mastering the technical skills that good musicians develop. And anyone who has ever gotten lost in a piece of music should understand the joy that comes from that, too. Scouting can, but unfortunately sometimes doesn't, offer similar rewards. And yes, scouting can be quite different in terms of emphasis - but really good bands? I see some overlaps, too. Band section leaders take on responsibilities not so different from patrol leaders. And individual advancement in many bands is closely linked to character traits such as perseverance, commitment, and work ethic, just as is the case to a large degree in scouting. Talent probably plays a larger role in band than in scouting, but a lot of what passes for "talent" at the middle and high school level is actually better attributed to hard work and dedication. And that, I think, is pretty similar to scouting too.

Things may be different elsewhere. But those youth rec leagues end at about 4th grade around here. After age 9, forget it. Either you're "good enough to make the cut" or you don't make the team. And seriously, many of the kids who are "good enough" at age 10? Are either burned out or injured by age 14. Unfortunately, there are few chances for slightly later developers to get in on things by that point, because they didn't have the same intense coaching as the competitive league kids got between ages 10-14. Put in economic terms, the barriers to entry past about age 10 become higher with each season. Thankfully, boy scouts gives slightly older kids many avenues to be physically active just about when "everyone plays" rec leagues start to fall away.

Sailing, the idea that people who use stimulants will be promoted over those who do not, doesn't worry me much. Again, for people who do not have an underlying condition, the stimulant is not going to suddenly allow them to be a different person (failing to straight A) in any long term sense. And it sure isn't going to make them more knowledgeable about their jobs, either. At the end of the day, focus is a wonderful thing. But so are skill, competence, attitude, and a bunch of other things that ritalin does not provide. Besides, I bet these drugs would show up in a urine test. More and more employers are requiring such tests. Then what? Prescription drug abuse is illegal. And employers shouldn't, but many do, have a bias against people who self-identify as being ADHD. Maybe we should be more concerned about negative (social/legal) side effects for those who test positive for these substances, regardless of whether they have a legitimate, prescribed, need for the drug?

I'm ambivalent. Yes, I know tests are very important and all that stuff (heck, I give the tests and of course my tests in my class *are* the most important thing going on at any moment, in any of my students' lives - and I bet Pack will say the same ) But really? So you take ritalin or whatever just before the SAT. First, what are your chances of being so wired you literally can't sit still (I hear it impacts some folks that way) and thus you get a horrible score. Second, suppose it really does cause you to be hyper-focused. It still isn't going to improve your math ability, your writing ability, your vocabulary skills, etc. And honestly, one test, one day of your life, isn't going to drastically alter your future. You might score a couple of points higher than "normal." But for the overwhelming majority of college-bound students, that's not going to make or break your admission. Frankly, most schools aren't competitive enough for it to matter. For those few schools that are, well, you'd better have a good deal more than just a pretty SAT score going for you if you hope to get in. So then you get in to "dream school" based on that amazing SAT score (among other things). You arrive, and discover that guess what, either EVERYONE has a similarly amazing SAT score, or (more likely), NO ONE CARES what your amazing SAT score was. In the former, OMG, now what? Do you have to take ritalin on a daily basis now? What if you can't actually perform at the level of everybody else, even when you're on the stuff (after all, some or all of them actually truly earned those high SAT scores because they know their stuff)? What if people begin to wonder how a dumbo like you made it in? AHCK! Self-doubt! Bad news, but you deserve it, for being a hyper-competitive twit with no sense of proportion. In the latter case, which is far more common when we consider most colleges, well all I can say is, wow. You drugged yourself to get a marginally better score, which you'll never really know if you actually earned, and all for what? Nothing. Feeling that empty space where personal self-worth should be located? That's right, you deserve it too - for being a hyper-competitive twit when it doesn't even matter, with no sense of proportion. So yeah, I'm ambivalent. People will misuse it and do stupid stuff. I hope they are twisted with gnawing anxiety about whether they're actually any good as human beings, if they do that. On the other hand, it is kinda sad that our culture encourages this sort of over-the-top behavior, at all. And please note, I'm referring only to people who do not have a legitimate need for these medications. I recognize the beneficial role that these meds can have, for many people who really do have ADD or ADHD.

Does your school district have a community relations officer assigned to any of its schools? Around here, this is a common thing and I know that many of the officers look for positive ways to connect with the students (rather than being only the "heavy"). Maybe invite that officer to a meeting. The police dogs were a big hit when we did this, except for the fact that a couple of *younger* fellows were afraid of the dog. Might want to make sure parents know in advance so that they don't bring their 3-year-old to the meeting? Do you have an explorer post linked to your police/fire/first responders? Explorers is another BSA program where older youth do some job shadowing and learn about various career areas. We have an explorer post in this area that gets to ride with cops on some calls, attended a couple of days at a police academy, etc. If they exist in your area, this might be a cool way for those kids to lend a hand by coming to a meeting and sharing some of what they're learning, and we know that younger kids will idolize what the older kids are doing. (Call your council to inquire about contact info for any such explorer posts in your area).

Gary writes: "The point I was trying to make is that a YM who is holding a rank above 1st Class, Should be holding a POR, and if they are not holding a POR they should be working on an assigned leadership project." Not sure I agree, Gary. This is most likely true for a lot of boys who are Star, Life, and Eagle rank. But not all boys, all the time. My own son might be a good example. He served as SPL all of last year (while Star rank). While he learned a lot and it was (overall) a worthwhile experience, it was a long, stressful year. He's tired and just wants to have some fun for a bit. He's also in a school program this year that places a lot of serious demands on him. That means prioritizing. It wouldn't be a good year for him to take on a major POR, for sure. If some adult insisted that he have a POR or be working on an assigned leadership project, then soon, that adult might be wondering how come my son was never around at scout events any more. Remember, this is a voluntary activity! Also, advancement is not the be-all, end-all for some boys, especially past 1st class. There are many aspects of scouting that might appeal to (and benefit) a boy that do not require a formal POR.

Welcome! And thank you for stepping up. I hope you have a lot of fun with your Tigers this year. There is a booklet you could buy at your local scout shop, called Cub Scouts Academics and Sports Program, which lists all the requirements. If you don't want to buy the book, you can also find the info online. Here's a very good site that is typically highly reliable, when it comes to stuff like that: http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/a-sindex.asp Scroll down a little bit and you'll find "clickable" lists of all the belt loops/pins. Just note that a couple of them (bb and archery) have restrictions on where/when they can be earned. Also, since the loops are quite expensive ($1.80 each), check in with your pack leadership about how they are paid for before going too much furhter. It is possible to make major dents in the pack advancement budget, if they haven't already planned to cover the costs of loops, in which case, you might want to encourage your den to take a rather leisurely approach to earning them.

Beavah writes: "Despite whatever we fictionalize as "the dominant norms of 21st century society" or try to excuse by social pressure or societal need for quick fixes (which I think is mostly bunk), I think we can expect professionals to act professionally. " Beavah, whether intended or not, I think you dodged my question. So let me clarify, and ask again. You are not in favor of medication, or of counseling. So what do you see as appropriate ways to try to help kids who are having behavioral problems? By telling you not to assume you can change the "dominant norms of 21st century society" I meant that it is unrealistic to say that you'd "solve" the behavioral problems some kids have by single handedly re-ordering society. For example, by saying that school days/years should be shorter, mothers should never work outside the home, or kids shouldn't be exposed to large doses of mass media. While we might argue about the relative influences of any of these factors, reality is that a parent with a child who is exhibiting behavioral issues cannot realistically change the school calendar, we are unlikely to return to a time when most women stayed home, and mass media is an inescapable part of our culture. We could tinker with these things around the edges, but we can't wish them away.

Acco, do you have an expectation that "discuss" will result in "decide?" Maybe that difference is being lost in translation. Try "discuss this with your colleagues and report back to me with your group's analysis or conclusions on Thursday." I'm not a huge fan of conducting business exclusively via email (or other electronic forms), but sometimes it can be very efficient, and sometimes it is the only option in our overloaded, super-busy lives. Also, I really hate going to meetings where things are hashed out ad nauseum, that could have been decided more quickly via email. By the way, expect this to get "worse" acco. Most college students now take at least a few classes where some, or all, of the material (including group discussion and problem solving) occur online. They're used to it - you're probably not.

"Why does a Star Scout not have a POR within the troop? " How about: because he can't get elected to one by his peers, or appointed to one by his youth leaders (perhaps he has a history of not performing/being a jerk when in a POR)? because he can't control his own behavior well enough right now to handle one? (12 and 13 year olds who were lovely 11 year olds, and will eventually be lovely 14-15 year olds, can sometimes be major pills for a little while) because he was recently removed from his POR for gross violations of the scout oath or law? because he hasn't been showing up (for whatever reason) and therefore isn't available to fulfill a POR right now? because he didn't ask for one? because he didn't want the ones that needed doing, only wanted one that someone else currently holds, and so declined to accept the ones that are available right now? because he's tired of holding a POR and just wants to have fun for a while? because he's too busy with school work to shoulder the added responsibility of a POR right now? Gary, I have no idea if any of the above apply to the specific scout acco was referencing. I just want to point out that there can be all sorts of reasons - some better than others, but many/most/all legit, for why a boy might be a Star scout and yet, not be in a POR at a given moment. Let us not jump to conclusions.

Just a remnant of the "old" program, where bobcat was earned before Wolf/Bear/Webelos, but after Tiger. No longer the case as of a couple of years ago. Your son' book is probably a slightly older version that was printed before that change occurred. That's all.

I don't know where your council is getting those "blackout dates" from. Maybe the UW has asked your COUNCIL not to do additional fund raisers during that time. That doesn't mean it necessarily applies to individual units, which are not council-owned, anyway. They're CO-owned (so to speak). I'm with others on this. Turn in the application. Push back, if you get a little grief from your council. But first, be sure your CO is on board with what you want to do and why you want to do it. Prep your CO for council's objection and how the CO should respond. Then, ask your CO to draft a letter to the SE indicating that they are disappointed with council's reluctance to allow them, the CO, to ensure proper funding for troop activities, yada yada yada. You get the picture? Have the CO in the loop, well prepared, and on your side. Now about the fruit - we sold it back when I was in band in high school. It came in just before thanksgiving (I think) and we'd all spend a Saturday morning sorting the fruit into boxes in a big warehouse. That was actually sort of fun. Great fund raiser, product people actually enjoyed. I don't know what the profit margin was, but we all sold enough to fully fund annual band trips all over the country. Only downside was that those darn boxes were heavy! After a few years we had a waiting list of customers who would call US, if we didn't knock on their doors.

Beavah, I'm curious. You're clearly not an advocate of a medication reflex response for kids. Nor are you a fan of counseling. Without a debate on the relative merits of medication or counseling, I would like to know: What do you think would be appropriate responses to kids who are having behavioral problems? Note that I'm talking about responses within the structure and context that we actually find ourselves in - no going and changing the dominant norms of 21st century society (good or ill) to answer this because, like it or not, we don't single-handedly control those norms.

Moosetracker, he's technically still registered with the "former" troop until either recharter, or until we tell the troop where he is moving to - whichever happens first. However, he doesn't intend to be active with that troop. I've written about his experiences last year before - but I think the simplest explanation is that he just wants something different in the remaining two years of his scouting experience than what his former troop is able to offer him at this point in time.

NJ, it is a big tag. Not the actual shirt tag, but a large paper/cardboard tag attached with one of those little plastic thread thingies.

"Depending on the study and which one you believe - some 75% to 80% of the US adult population are walking around sucking down an antidepressant or anxiolytic on a daily basis. If the adults can't deal with life and need to be medicated to function normally, WHY wouldn't they expect the same of their offspring? " Yikes. If true, this is a serious indictment of our culture. Not the psychs' faults, there. They didn't create an unlivable culture. We (collectively) do that to ourselves. And we continue doing it every time we decide that we "have to" do or have something or adopt certain behavioral patterns because "everybody else" does. In actuality, it is possible to opt out of a lot of the craziness, though that, too, can come at some cost. As for teachers and ADD diagnoses, on one hand, teachers have access to a much broader spectrum of developmental experiences for comparison purposes, than a lot of parents do. And in a society where even nuclear families (let alone extended family networks) are so fragmented, it kind of makes sense that a frazzled parent will accept a teacher's word about what's "typical" or "normal." On the other hand, I really and truly wish that someone would ban teachers from telling parents that their kid has ADHD. Maybe the teacher is right, and maybe medication is actually in order. But often, the problem isn't that the kid has ADHD, but rather, that the kid is not developmentally ready for the classroom environment, or there are problems within the family, or the kid is not well suited to that teacher's or that system's style/pace/etc. Drugs do not fix these problems - they merely paper over the problems. That might be necessary sometimes, but it should be recognized for what it is - a "solution" that doesn't adequately "solve" the underlying problem. But when it comes to offering a "critique of the psych profession," I hardly think most of us can offer any sort of valid critique. Most of us don't fully understand what it is we're being invited to critique, and so any analysis will necessarily be seriously flawed. Interesting water cooler topic though, I suppose.

About uniforms - I happened to be standing next to a mother of a new tiger cub at the scout shop the other day. The sales clerk had loaded her up with all the requisite patches (not really that many) and the mom, with a slightly overwhelmed look, says "how do I know where these all go?" To which the clerk had a great answer: on the tags of all the new shirts is a picture of the shirt, complete with patch placement! Smart idea, national supply!

It has been some time since I could honestly say any scouting thing that I've attended was "fun." In fact it had become so "not fun" that I withdrew to the (distant) background of all things scouting for most of last year, and when it got really, really "not fun" I resigned my membership as part of a troop adult leadership. I'm still not registered and will likely stay that way for a while. But, last night, my son attended a court of honor for another troop, just to see what they're like. They aren't located all that near to us and none of the kids are from the same school district. Their SM was also my son's jambo contingent SM though, and so son thought he'd just give the troop a look-see. I went along as Driver Mom and sat in the back. The troop has a lot of young fellows and things were pretty chaotic when we got there. But within 5 minutes, the SPL and ASPL had greeted my son (he knew one of them from jambo) and pulled an extra chair up to where the older boys in the "duct tape" patrol were hanging around. Within 2 or 3 more minutes, my son was laughing and joking around with them, clearly feeling at ease. Stuffed full of CoH goodies, the kids were all a bit hyper. But things got under way and the patrols all congregated in their own areas. PLs got things settled down a bit. The SPL ran the program with help from the duct tapes, who seemed to act as a senior leadership corp. The littler guys clearly looked up to them, the older guys clearly took their responsibility to the younger fellows seriously. Some older boys were wearing OA sashes and mentioned upcoming OA activities. Stories, songs, goofy moments, skits, and fun were in evidence. So was patrol identity and scout spirit and pride in the troop. Achievements and accomplishments were recognized with seriousness and fanfare as appropriate, but it is clear there's more to the troop than an advancement mill. Adult presence was minimal. Usually I dread CoHs because they're BORING. Usually, 3-4 adults plan and run the show (in my son's former troop) and talk far too much. In my experience, the scouts at a CoH are seated in rows to the side of the stage and periodically reminded to be quiet because the adults are saying something important. UGH! I saw nothing like that last night. In fact, although I didn't know a single boy at this event (except my son who was visiting, of course), I found the CoH to be interesting, fun, and a good demo of a troop culture that I think most boys would enjoy being part of. Every troop has flaws. I know that (so does my son). Son is going to visit another troop or two, and a couple of crews. But I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up joining this troop, and I think he'll like it there. Nice to know, that there are other ways of "doing scouting" out there, and to have such a refreshing experience. Job well done, to this troop!

I don't know if a den leader owes an explanation to folks about why he or she isn't able to attend a meeting. A simple "sorry, but I can't be there" should suffice - does it matter why? Would a note from their mother make a difference? (said tongue in cheek so don't take offense) But maybe there is something else to this DL's unwillingness to attend your leader meetings? Honestly, I've thought many times about offering my time as a Tiger den leader to one of our local packs. I really enjoyed working with young fellows (and their families) and now that my son is nearing the end of high school it isn't as though he needs me to be terribly active in his scouting life, so I have some (formerly) "scouting time" to give. Also, packs with a Tiger DL who knows something about the program (as opposed to brand new parents with no idea) tend to do better with retention. But - one thing holding me back from offering - is memory of the many, long, frustrating, poorly run, waste-of-time, leader meetings I have attended. If I could somehow be a Tiger DL without all that hoopla, I'd gladly volunteer again. Call it selfish, but I know lots of other folks who just dread the thought of all those adult meetings. Maybe this fellow feels the same way.

First of all, I would strongly encourage people to take the word "unfair" out of their vocabulary. This is a kids program. Let the kids enjoy it for what it is! When parents start flinging charges of "unfair!" around, things quickly go downhill. Second, the belt loops were a huge hit in all the packs I've seen and been part of. The boys absolutely love them. The pins get less attention but they're nice in that they allow a boy who is excited about a topic to explore in further depth. While most of our guys would have 10-15 loops, they might only have 1-3 pins. Third, Tigers through second year webelos may earn them (in a few cases they are actually part of the webelos activity pin requirements). With a couple of exceptions (shooting sports - make sure you check rules on these loops) they do not need to be earned at pack/den/scouting events. There is no reason why your bears and webelos should feel "cheated" or left out. However, I found that Tigers-Wolves-Bears were more interested in the loops than Webelos. The Webelos activity pins are more in-depth than the loops/pins. Your Webelos also should be doing a variety of other activities that start to distinguish them from your younger scouts in the pack. The loops are not a threat to your Webelos program, unless you have a very lousy Webelos program to begin with. And in that case, maybe the loops/pins could actually enhance the program for your webelos. Benefits to the loops: they're relatively easy, they encourage boys to try new activities, they can be used to get families to do things together, the kids (esp younger ones) are very proud of them. Disadvantages to the loops: they're expensive!, parents sometimes end up competing for who can "get" the most loops, the fastest, they're easy to earn (and sometimes some over-zealous parents will tell you their kid earned 20 of them in the last month - ugh). If your pack decides to start promoting the loops/pins, then you need a clear plan for what the pack will or won't pay for (how many/month, duplicates, etc) so that they don't overwhelm your advancement budget. In turn, that might put the damper on some over competitive parents misusing the program.

I think there are a lot of things the boy can do to be ready for such a trip. The learning curve is less steep for a typical 17 year old, than for a typical 11 year old. By all means, require that the boy do what is needed to be physically and mentally prepared for the trip. Beyond that, telling him he hasn't had enough bench time to be worthy of a spot is a way to ensure that you never recruit any older boys into the troop.

What caught my eye was your recruiting goal. And I get it, because I helped revive a pack that went from a small-ish handful, to about 40 boys in the space of a year. After we moved on to boy scouts, the pack settled in at about 20-25 boys. For a while I felt as though that was a failure. But think about this. A lot of boys who are involved with scouting need some individual attention. The larger the pack gets, the less likely they are to get that. This is not to say that some groups can't do it all, well, with huge numbers. But I don't think I would be happy to have my kid in a pack or troop with 50 or more scouts. Not enough chances for most kids to get the full experience and develop really strong relationships with a few caring adults outside their family structure. In my book, 35-40 is about the upper limit of what most groups can do well. Regarding the summertime award, I also used to think this was a very big deal. We used this as a benchmark of whether the pack was providing "quality program" in the rebuilding years for our pack. Turns out, you can drive people away by asking too much of them, too. Be careful not only about burning out, yourself, but also about putting more pressure on your other adult leaders and even "just" parents, if they don't share a common zeal for tons of summer programming. Finally, about recruiting. You are going to lose some folks no matter what you pull out of the hat. Let them go, with good graces. The boys may come back at some point but even if they do not, they will probably remember their cub scout days with a smile when they are older, and that's important, too. The fact that you had more people trying to talk to you about joining than you really had time to deal with, says a lot about your success. And you might just want to divide up the job of running your first couple of pack meetings each year, from talking to new and potentially-new members and parents. Get a good recruitment and membership person!

Be direct with the boy. "We treat each other with respect here. This is what that means..." Do lots of role playing with the den to help all of them see how they can choose to behave differently. Be very, very intentional about it. 10-11 year olds can get that. Sometimes, in ways adults or even older teens who have entrenched behavioral patterns do not get that. By the way our own scouter.com forum contributor Neil Lupton was quoted in that article. On the whole, I appreciated the article and thought there was a lot of useful material in there, but I thought the actual practical tips for leaders were on the weak side.