Lisabob

If you are considering taking wb through a neighboring council then you'll probably meet some folks from your own council too, esp. since your council's class didn't meet enrollment last year so there are probably several people who would've taken it in council last year, who will now be considering the neighboring council's program this year. Around here, we've got three councils that work together. They rotate courses so that each year it is in a different council, but participants come from all three (and elsewhere). If your council offers wb every other year then they may have a similar

We typically have a dinner event (BBQ chicken in the late spring) once a year and people pay out of pocket. Otherwise refreshments aren't usually offered at rt. Lisa'bob

gwd, that's an interesting point regarding the history of the pledge. Let's add that in the Barnette case it was a religious group (Jehova's Witnesses) who opposed mandatory recitation of pledge in public schools. It is also worth noting that, among those who objected to a mandatory salute (right arm extended, palm upward) to the flag while reciting the pledge (which was required under WV law at the time) were the Boy and Girl Scouts of America, and the Red Cross. After this case, this was pretty much a dead issue (at least, legally speaking) until after 9/11 when several states sta

Funscout, I apologize if what I said came across wrong. You're right, it would be incorrect to characterize your post as suggesting that liberals all *hate* scouts. Let me try to re-phrase what I was trying to say. I think it is more accurate to put it this way: while many liberals don't agree with some specific BSA policies, many of us *do* still value the larger ideals and lessons that scouting teaches. This difference gets overlooked a lot of times and many people seem to assume that liberals are all out to get the BSA. Happily, I have noticed that matters of interpretation and

BrentAllen, I don't have a problem with your political views, I just probably won't ever agree with you. Well hey, that's ok, you probably aren't going to agree with me either. And I do have strongly held views. But I also have family members whom I adore, who fall on all sides of the political fence (including under and over it) so over the years I've found it is far better to keep the polemics turned way, way down. At least - if I want to have a serious conversation or share thanksgiving dinner with the family. I think, though, that there's an assumption out there (look at the fir

BrentAllen, I don't have a problem with your political views, I just probably won't ever agree with you. Well hey, that's ok, you probably aren't going to agree with me either. And I do have strongly held views. But I also have family members whom I adore, who fall on all sides of the political fence (including under and over it) so over the years I've found it is far better to keep the polemics turned way, way down. At least - if I want to have a serious conversation or share thanksgiving dinner with the family. I think, though, that there's an assumption out there (look at the fir

Oh dear BrentAllen, I should've known that would touch off a screed. Look, I understand that there are people out there who treat the BSA poorly and label this "liberalism." This is a very unfortunate mis-use of what it means to be a liberal though. I also understand that there are people out there who call themselves "conservatives" who take actions that a great many people find either dunderheaded or offensive too. Thank goodness I know that "conservative" is not necessarily synynomous with "horrible person." To me, being liberal means standing up for core freedoms listed in t

Well no, I don't think you can rightfully insist on one job-one family. Who are you going to exclude? Mom? or Dad? If the pack we were part of had done this I'd have been royally cheesed off, either way. Besides, who are you (as an outsider to the family) to determine what this family can or can't handle? And you may be unwittingly inserting yourself into a contentious marital debate or power struggle here too. Do you really want to go there? I know that's probably not what you meant at all. But, that's how it may be perceived. OK, so what to do? Just like with ANY volunt

I don't see anything wrong with visiting the webelos (upon invitation by the webelos DL, of course), along with your scouts. I would, of course, want to make sure that the scouts are on the same page as you in terms of the kind of message you want to deliver and the ways in which you'll deliver it. And I'd be real sure to make it fun for the audience (boys) and not just more adult blathering. In terms of contacting other troops: yes, if you contact the SM and committee first and explain what you are trying to do. I've met very, very few scouters who want to see another unit fold and

"republican" can mean those who support a republic-style of government, where people choose representatives to make decisions on their behalf. In that sense, we're all republicans, even those of us who are also liberal Democrats. Scoutingagain I'll admit: you hit on one of my hot buttons. Why is it that people assume liberals are necessarily anti-scouting? Yup, as a liberal I admit it...I disagree with certain policies of the BSA (3 guesses as to which ones). But you know what, we liberals can also see the tremendous value that scouting offers to our kids too. I'm willing to balanc

This council is pipe dreaming if they think their existing scouts are all going to roll over and pay the $52/yr additional fee, or that they'll manage to attract many new scouts with this new fee and the added negative publicity that the council is receiving. Just from personal experience: the packs and troops we've been affiliated with have charged anywhere from $30/yr to $70/yr in dues. Of this, it is true that $10 goes to national and about another $12 goes for Boys Life, and our council gets zip. And even at $70/yr scouting is a tremendous value, given what the scouts (and often,

uz2bnowl...we birds must stick together in this fox & bear infested world, so welcome to the nest. I think the answer to your question depends very much on the strengths and weaknesses of the troop you are joining. As an example, my son crossed over last year at this time. He joined a troop that has about 18 ASMs and they all have far better outdoor skills than I do. I'm no slouch but these people are serious; one guy leads wilderness expeditions for a living. I found there wasn't a lot I could add there. So I joined the committee, where I discovered that there was a serious n

I have a question about how/when/where you wear your wb beads. Are there some unspoken rules of bead etiquette? For example: do you wear them every time you put on the uniform? How about to troop meetings? Court of Honor? Roundtable? District meetings? Just wb events? I got my beads in June last year. I'm proud of what they represent and I can imagine that they'd serve as a conversation starter and recruitment tool among those who haven't gone to wb yet. But I don't want to appear to be showing off either. Also I'm in a troop now where there are a lot of very experienced scout

I meant to add: We never ran a regular den program during summer months and did not try at all to get a new tiger den up and running until after our fall round up. At most, we had a few very simple pack events. So I don't think it is necessary to try and get the whole tiger program started in order for spring recruitment to be a successful recruitment and retention tool. In fact this might have backfired, as people around here are so busy in the summer and the new den might have fallen apart due to low attendance. Lisa'bob

We have recruited new tigers specifically for day camp every spring, except for last year. In a pack of approx 30-40 boys we typically got anywhere from 7-12 new tigers who signed up and went to camp. Of those, some parents were very clear that they simply wanted a cheap, accessible introductory day camp experience and that's ok with me. However, probably 70% of the boys who signed up and went to camp with us came back in the fall as part of our pack's regular program. Also, the parents of these boys tended to be fairly willing to get involved as volunteers, once they saw how the cub pack

No no ozemu, you've got it backwards: they should separate them *until* they reach 12 years. OK I'm joking. But...if we were going to introduce co-ed scouting further into the BSA I actually think it makes more sense to have co-ed troops and leave the cub program alone. At least by the time they're 12 or so boys appear to begin viewing girls as part of the human species again. I can't say the same for many 6-10 year olds. I even remember, as a cub leader, that one particular 8 year old boy paid me the highest of compliments. He said I had come up with a really cool idea for a

I have this conversation with my son on occasion regarding school projects that require any kind of artistic endeavor (which he just despises - I don't know why, since he's actually pretty good). They tend to go like this. Son: OK I'm done. Me: Great, can I have a look? Son: mdhgjsmmmbd (non-commital mumbling) Me: Hmm, tell me about this. Son: well I had to (draw/color/paint/make a collage/etc) so I did. Me: I see. You've got one small (whatever type of art is required here) thing on the paper. Do you think that's what your teacher is looking for? Son: I met the exac

My husband and I did this for a while. He was a den leader while I wore a variety of other hats. On one hand, we're both glad that we were involved with our son and his friends, and I like to think we did a good job. Also it was easy to coordinate activities since I knew I'd see him every day at the dinner table to discuss upcoming plans. On the other hand...we got to a point where we felt like all we ever talked about with each other was scouting. And we were both getting kind of burned out. Also we were both deeply involved in keeping the pack going. Negative sides to th

Personally, among the most useful things I got from wb are the network of scouters and the exchange of ideas/views/skills. Any scouting issue I'm working on, I know for a fact that I can contact any of my fellow woodbadgers and they won't hesitate to help out or offer feedback, or whatever I may need. You're right, there are many excellent leaders out there who have not done wb. But I'll tell you, I have yet to meet a lousy leader who *has* done woodbadge! Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too!

Setting aside the question of whether there *ought* to be female leaders in the BSA for a moment...From a purely pragmatic view I submit that a good number of units would fold if there weren't women involved because women frequently make up a majority of the adult leaders - especially in cub scouts. Going back to women's involvement: personally I think it makes sense to have dedicated adults, regardless of gender, involved in the program in as many ways as possible. I don't buy the argument that women will coddle the boys more than men (I've seen as many dads do this as moms). I also

And I wouldn't have a problem with this latest version of the song either. Here's what I don't care for in the original poster's version though: "We have no use for your bull now" is close enough to encouraging swearing to be out of bounds in my book, especially for little kids. It would be better (in my view anyway) if we were talking about older kids where ambiguity is better understood. But I can just imagine some 6 or 7 yr. old not understanding why it is ok to say "your bull..." and not "your bull---t" or when even the first one is unacceptable. Suppose that some cub scout inform

I read an article in the NY Times today about how some people are now marking the end of adolesence as being in the early 30s. Yes, THIRTIES. The basic point: Young people are being ever more "groomed" with music lessons, sports, tutors, and other after school activities, but that when it comes right down to it, they are not well prepared to contribute to real life in a meaningful way, for all their education and enrichment, and that's why adolesence keeps stretching further and further. Given the extent to which life is "managed" for young people these days, they hardly have a chance

We have several young men in the troop who have turned 18 in the last six months or so. Most express an initial desire to stay on as new leaders. Seems like those who actually do stay are those who have specific, defined roles to play. Those who don't have specific roles seem kind of lost and don't stick around for very long. So maybe this is something to discuss - how to carve out a specific role to play in the troop. Lisa'bob

Some boys have "fun" kicking and punching each other too but we wouldn't let them do that at cub scouts (I hope). So no, I don't think that's a good enough standard. I don't mean this in a nasty way Scotteng; I just think this gets to the main point of the discussion. I wouldn't have any problem with the song jtea describes in the previous post, either in terms of lyrics or how it is used. I would have a problem with the original poster's version. I don't let my child talk to or about other people like that at home and I wouldn't expect him to be encouraged to do so at cub scouts.

Here are the potential down sides that I see; tell me what you think: 1. I think leadership ought to come from families with boys who are currently in the pack. If these families care enough to have their boys involved, then they should figure out how to get involved. If an answer to their leadership needs just seems to fall into their laps they'll never really get involved themselves. 2. I'm concerned that one person might end up doing the bulk of the work and others will feel they can free ride on that person's efforts. The potential returning leader in question has been kno