Laurie

I'm really finding that when it comes down to it - I like the program but I don't like the organizational structure. Does anybody else feel that way? Even in a small pack, it is possible to split the program/working directly with the boys from the paperwork/planning. There needs to be some overlap, but it's doable. Our den leaders want to be part of planning and of all committee meetings because they want to be actively involved. However, the committee members (we recruited 2 new people recently who don't mind paperwork and in fact prefer it to working with the boys) fill out the local tour permits, keep minutes, keep the financial records, and the like. If you are having trouble having enough den leaders in addition to having enough committee membes, or if the den paperwork (tracking advancements and dues for instance) is something that a den leader dreads, then invite a parent to help with this during each meeting. This has been very effective for us. But I have to confess: I happen to look at all aspects, even the paperwork, as a way to build up the program, which in turns make for fun for me and the boys, my son included.

The troop my son is lists a tent as personal gear needed when joining. I believe my son is the only boy of the six who bridged last year to have his own tent (one my husband purchased to share with him). For Christmas our son received a brand new tent--same kind. We anticipate adding a third of the same tent this winter when our next son bridges. It's an Eddie Bauer 3-person tent with rain fly--they love it. It is usually the only tent that stays completely dry. My nephew received one prior to his winter survival, and he had the only dry tent. It's a good tent.

Bob, excellent point. Who would do this review? This may sound like a dumb question, but we've rebuilt ourselves with no help from the CO. A lot of untrained, stressed leaders who were doing the job because noone else would held things together for awhile, but barely. There was no "real" COR, just a name. So, now that we have a real person, how would the unit begin this review process? It makes so much sense to have an annual review, and I would hate to see our unit head into trouble again.

I agree with this. I was chairman of the board for a local non-profit, and one of things we did was to take a class on how to run a board for charitable non-profits. A 3-year term limit was recommended, and at the end of the term, a 1-year break was recommended before the person would apply to the board again. This was good advice that we found to be practical. The concern was that we'd not have enough people. Not only did I not share that concern, but I called a meeting with each individual on the board. I asked each why they wanted to serve. Most were not serving in the capacity for which they felt suited. That changed. Some were serving but did not want to; they left guilt-free. I took a lot of heat for that, but I didn't care. What we ended up with was those who were tired, stressed, not interested leaving by their choice and quietly as I took their resignations and presented them to the board if they wanted. Those remaining ended up in positions suited to them. We became more efficient and that appealed to others, and that grew the board. This seems like something that would be beneficial to Scouting too. Some time off for those who long-term doesn't seem a bad idea. That said, I'm not sure I could step away--though if asked to, I would.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I'll second Bob on going to the Scout Executive immediately. This is an area that is taken seriously and needs to be treated seriously. It is possible that you won't know what the council does, but once it's reported, you do need to learn how to prevent future incidents and then how to response in the event of another incident or suspected incident.

I think I'll do just that. I guess I just don't understand--without seeing the older issues--how this particular book is lacking as a reference (with the exception of what KS pointed out). We all seem to be saying the same thing--that the handbook doesn't teach--but we have different views of the importance of the handbook.

Eamonn writes: "Like it or not the Scouts who use the book are being taught in a different way then I was and many of us were." This particular aspect seems to get overlooked in other threads. When the boys are working with the troop leadership, they are learning by doing not by relying on the handbook alone. It would seem to me that the handbook is a listing of the requirements with some supplemental information and that the rest of the program comes from troop leadership. That is why when I first heard boys complaining about the book I was puzzled; I didn't see a problem with it. To me, it had plenty of info, but the leaders had even more, and that was far more fun that reading the book (and I love to read, but reading about building a campfire doesn't begin to compare to the actual building of it ) From my years as a Girl Scout, I can not tell you about the books, but I can vividly remember what I learned by doing. That is how I look at the handbook issue today.

I've nothing to compare the current Boy Scout Handbook to, but I do know that my husband and I have supplemented it with field guides, the first aid merit badge book, and the Field Book. This is to fill in what we felt was missing as we read it, and when our son is not clear on something, we refer him to these other books. He does read the others far more than his handbook. That said, I still think the handbook is useful as is, but I can see where it might need improvements. The older boys in the troop prefer the older editions, by the way; they thought they were easier to use and more informative. Does anyone know why the handbook was changed? Now, when it comes to Cubs, I happen to like the new edition over the last edition--1998 I believe. There is more information and they are more user friendly.

Thanks FOG

I have the Oscar de la Renta (sp?) signature on my scarf, the only item that has a designer signature. All others are simply "BSA Official...". What are spats?

Oops--afraid I wasn't clear. For those who already have some involvement and would be interested in leading but either don't know how to or aren't sure of the time commitment or are nervous in front of groups--things like this--how do those people get our support in leading? The word leader can be an intimidating word. Our leaders now spend very little time preparing, and as we attend training or share what some of us learn during supplemental trainings and roundtables, we reduce the amount of time we spend in preparations. It gets easier. I met with the Scout RT Commissioner for our district, and he said he has taught troop leaders how to reduce their amount of time in preparing programs to less than half an hour. He gave me some ideas, and they are so practical and easy, that it's basically a matter of being organized. Now, for those who aren't interested in leading, that's a different story. I personally am not into arm twisting or guilt trips.

This thread is spun from a thread where leaders were discussing the resistance of active adults who like the program and are active in BUT won't become leaders. When I first became part of leadership in the pack I serve, a little over a year ago, there were few active parents. Not just few leaders, but few parents involved at all. Then I learned that this pack did not all know one another, and one thing led to another, and I spent several months getting to know the program, the leaders, the Cubs, the families. As I got to know them and their level of involvement versus interest, I recruited some new leaders. Five brand-new leaders in fact--not exactly a small number for a pack of 20. Two who were leaders but were tired and considered leaving, I helped out in one way or another, and they not only stayed, but they had fun. All this to say that in my opinion one very significant key to getting involvement is building relationships. I had an ulterior motive. My son in entrusted to the care of some of these leaders; I want to know who they are. What other obstacles do parents name? What objections, concerns, fears, etc., and how we can help to take the fear from leading? Quite frankly, with the exceptions of health and/or family concerns, I've not yet met with an obstacle that can't be overcome if one cares about the program his/her son is involved in. And though some have some rather odd ideas about the program (we've all heard that we're not the Baby Sitters of America and that type of thing), I have not met a parent who truly doesn't care about how the program effects his/her son. Some pay for their boys and drop them off/pick them up, but that is a level of involvement--at least IMO.

I'd love to go, but this is one of those things that may have to wait a bit. In addition to our boys involved in Cubs and Scouts, we have a toddler to care for, and that's my primary responsibility. I'm trying to talk my husband into going. Our dates were moved from spring to fall--Oct 2004. Two weekends. By the way, that's the problem for me--one weekend I'd consider, but two is too hard on the family. We sure do have a lot of staff represented on the forums!

Thanks again. Your sharing in my happy news just makes it nicer and nicer Eamonn, congratulations!! That is wonderful news, and from your posts and e-mails off the list, and from all that you have shared, I can't help but think you are very deserving of a special recognition. Who wonderful for you! By the way, I'm a real shutterbug, so I'm sure to have photos--and I'll pass the camera to someone else so I can get in them too

Thank you all! NJ, I don't know yet who the corporate sponsors are, but I certainly hope to learn that. A thank you note from the unit is very much in order, and unless it's one of those corporations that prefers to donate something quietly, I'll post a very public thank you too. This is generous indeed.

Cub Reading Ideas: Magic Tree House books are an easy read and full of adventure. However, by the end of 2nd grade, my sons were done with them, but they're a great introduction to chapter books as well as to history, science, and so much more. My youngest would devour these books and then ask the most interesting questions; I liked them because they kept him reading and thinking about what he read. We have lots of classics, and early on our boys were reading C.S. Lewis' Chronicle of Narnia on their own; they now are into Tolkien. Oldest son loves Hardy Boys and a variety of classics. A recent read of his that he liked a lot was Johnny Tremain. Our bookshelves contain many of the books FOG named.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I received an e-mail from my DE that I am one of three Cub Scout leaders who is being recognized "for making significant contributions to Cub Scouting" per our phone call follow up. What an honor this is, and what a surprise! There are corporate sponsors who are sending three units, one of them the pack I serve, to the Kimmel Center. Tickets are provided for each registered leader and Cub in the unit. This is so exciting to me. Nice things like this are special and don't happen a whole lot, so I wanted to share. I hope you don't think I'm bragging, for the reality is that I can't think of what I could have contributed. I simply love doing what I do...most days Thanks for letting me share my happy news!

Wow, Eamonn, we knew you were special but didn't know you were that special I got a copy of the fieldbook yesterday. I LOVE it. The illustrations are fabulous. Last year I purchased a fieldbook. It has good info, but it doesn't begin to have the appeal to it that this does. I've a feeling there will be more copies of this book in our home--all the family love it, and though we share, I got the soft cover, and those just don't last on trips.

Thanks for sharing more details

I don't know who does here. It hasn't been an issue, well, until *I* brought it up, that is. The SM keeps a list of merit badge counselors, and he assigns the Scout to a merit badge counselor. So far as I know, at the council noone checks this until a boy goes for Eagle. And then, I don't know who checks it. At the last roundtable, the district stressed that good penmanship is a must, for many blue card signatures cannot be read when reviewing them. My husband serves as advancement chair, and he double checks blue cards before sending them to the council to buy advancements.

Congratulations! That's super news. You have me interested to hear more though, so if you'd care to tell more, please do. What were the t-shirts for? Is your area typically difficulty to hold blood drives in (you mentioned 15 as the norm)? Is there something in particular that motivated you to do this particular project? Good news!!! Thanks for sharing

Oh Eamonn, it is not possible to read this and not laugh!

Still very impressive. I wonder if this wasn't deliberately done in order to show everything on the uniform--since the article does tell about how very many badges he has earned. It doesn't look like 120 merit badges can fit on that sash though, does it?

Wipe the slate clean? Not a bad idea--IMO anyway. However, it would be nice to pull some of the really positive stuff that is in these threads, some of the things that aren't exactly political but very scouting-oriented. Just a thought. Unless we, the posters, can move a few things--only those NOT political, controversial--to the proper forums?? Just a thought, and if a bad one, I'm ok with doing nothing and would accept a clean slate. Regardless of what comes next, THANK YOU TERRY! We posted at the same time NJCubscouter--excellent points. I'm glad this is not my call to make I'm happy just to try to get along with everyone and utilize these boards as intended, which seems to be to better understand Scouting and all that is related to it. Now, time to get back out of this forum so it can truly be at rest (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Fotoscout, I'm often accused of asking the big questions There are excellent points offered by all, and Marty is right about my intent. What else do we need to know? One thing is clear: BALOO offers different things depending upon the trainer. When I took it, it covered some different things than those fotoscout mentions. As we went through the material, here is the conclusion I reached upon completion of this particular training: * I need a first aid course ASAP * I need to be confident of my own camping skills first, so I need to get out and camp w/my family before taking the Cubs tent camping (amazing what just a little refresher can do) * I need to think of the camping trip from the view of a young boy and then look hard at the site through "his" eyes Training of any sort is an interesting thing, for every time I learn something it leads me to learn even more still. BALOO left me wanting more camping knowledge (current knowledge that is of boys and camping) and more training. Yet I highly recommend it for this very reason; it makes one think hard about planning and preparing.(This message has been edited by Laurie)