Laurie

Adrianvs -- I can not figure out the spell check and I just knew I spelled that wrong. I wonder what kind of people the "desent" people are that I named

Jumping back into this discussion Guess what arrived today? My husband got his Wood Badge invitation! He didn't tell me had sent an application in, but we agreed that it's better for him to go now as it's harder for me to leave the kids. I'm so excited for him. He was torn about going, not sure if he should go or not, but well I can arm twist rather well, you know. Now I feel just a little jealous because, like I said, I'd love to go. The timing isn't right though. As to money--good point that I overlooked. We don't have it, plain and simple. How we'll do this is yet to be determined. However, because it matters to both of us, because we want to do what we feel is best able to help each of us serve in our units, we'll find a way to work it out. Just like with summer camp, uniforms, and all the other costs related to Scouting. One of our sons came home with a cut knee in need of stitches, so my husband still doesn't know he got his invitation as he ran him to the hospital so I could stay home and handle homework battles and the little one trying to snag the homework away! He should like receiving this news when he arrives home

In an ideal world, sure it would be nice to be around desent people. However, Scouters and non-Scouters alike vary. I will admit here that some of the toughest times with other people ended up being the times that taught me the most. I think it comes down to what we each practice, for we cannot control others' actions or words. You said it well: Scouting has taught me values that I live by everyday from the moment I wake up until I go to sleep at night. What you do matters, and it sounds as though you doing just fine Your example may very well catch on too; never underestimate that. People watch and learn, and you don't know who might be watching you, whose life you might touch. As for the vent part: I have and will continue to confront fellow Scouters who act in a way that is unbecoming to Scouting. To remain quiet is to endorse their behavior, at least IMO. It is how we confront others that makes a difference too. To say, "wow, you were such a jerk to do that" would be quite counterproductive. However, to ask, "could we talk; something's been on my mind that I'd like to discuss with you...you know, as adults we may not think much of certain words, but I have noticed that some of the boys are cursing a lot. Do you think we could work together to help them by setting a stronger example for them?"

Gossips (paid gossips at that!) Gazette / gazatteers Givers of news Zahnada, do any of these work?

OGE asks: "ASM1 and Laurie, may we agree that one can be trained, although not be WoodBadge trained? Whether its New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster Specific, or COmmitee Challenge, etc. you can be trained but not WoodBasge trained and while I agree that WoodBadge training is the most desirable, the other training is adequate to communicate the program to those who will run it?" To which ASM1 replies in part: "It was never my intention to suggest you are untrained because you have not attended Wood Badge. But if you think you are trained without attending Wood Badge you are very mistaken indeed." To which I reply: OGE, well said, and I agree. ASM1, that's a contradiction: you say you did not intend to suggest that I was untrained without Wood Badge but follow up with stating that I am mistaken in thinking that one could be trained without attending Wood Badge. Not only am I not hostile toward Wood Badge, I highly recommend it. I recommend that untrained leaders (those with no training) become trained. In fact, I'm such an advocate of BSA training that one year ago no leaders in the pack were trained with the exception of the CM. He moved on when his son bridged, which would have left no trained leaders. I sought out--and I do mean sought out--training, for it was not easy to find a training course that was not cancelled due to lack of attendance. Last night I presented the charter paperwork and Quality Unit ribbon to the pack leadership, and we reviewed the year. All leaders are now trained. Why? I personally encouraged each to go, set the example by going first myself, and we continue to attend training courses as they are held. Now, this brings me to the part of that other conversation (parts of it quoted above) that bothers me. If anyone were to tell these leaders they were not trained, though they are fully trained for the positions they hold plus have assorted other trainings IN LESS THAN A YEAR, they would be hurt and discouraged. They made a commitment to serving the boys, and to do that, they went to training. They are proud of the training--I am too--and rightfully so. We have seen results in this unit by taking the basic training needed for the positions held. Results that have been noticed by other units, have been acknowledged at Roundtables, have been held up as an example throughout the district, and have caught the attention of the council as well. With a council of 100,000 that's no small accomplishment. Was it our goal to get noticed? No. Our goal was to learn to provide the best possible program to the boys we serve. Apparently we've done that. Next for many is Wood Badge. Not all will go, and of those who want to, not all may go now. It requires two weekends away from home. I won't speak for others, but I'll give my reason for not going this year. I have children ages 2 through 12 who are my top priority, but I have encouraged my husband to go this year. We cannot both go at the same time, and I'm not wild about leaving my little one right now. If this makes me a less committed leader, than I think that's a very sad commentary on how training is viewed by some. All training matters. It makes serving the units easier. It eliminates--or at least helps to eliminate--the personal agendas one might have by bringing each leader's attention to the methods, aims, and purpose of the BSA. It leads to results--happier boys and families, and therefore recruiting gets easier. It leads to happier leaders as the stress is lessened and the goals and how-tos are made clearer. I will promote and encourage Wood Badge, but along the way I will continue to encourage every leader I meet to become trained (starting whereever he may need to), and I will continue to applaud the commitment shown when training has been taken. To do anything less seems rather less than Scout-like to me. Discussion anyone? What have you seen in your units in respect to the various trainings and the benefits from them? (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Twocubdad & Packsaddle: Thanks! You know, we missed an obvious solution--store them in my closet Seriously now (yeah, that was a joke), thanks for the ideas. Twocubdad, looks like I've another expense to have approved. I like that, have seem them, and it would make our flag look nicer. Right now the ribbons just hang at the top of the pole. Packsaddle, maybe in trying to work out a solution for the units I serve, I'll come across something that will help you too. One idea I have is this: scrapbook the ribbons. They'd need to be folded, which I would not be wild about doing, but it could work. You wouldn't believe the stuff that is getting sent to me lately: old insignia, slides, neckerchiefs, awards earned by leaders in the pack now deceased, some photos, old pinewood derby cars and what look like eskimos and turtles on rope (must be 2 types of the turtle race), and even old programs. It all started with our UC asking me if I was interested in some old insignia. I said yes, but that I'd like to scrapbook them or put them in display cases (light enough to carry) to share with the units I serve and visit. He thought that sounded like a neat idea, for he was giving me the stuff--just because he knew I liked this sort of thing (think packrat!). Well, he talked to others, and I've met some others during events, and the results is 3 boxes of things that I've got to figure out how to organize, store, and display so they can be shared. Wow, what a haul! And I never know when more might come my way--it's fun. We came across Blue and Gold programs for the boys turning 18 in the troop--how cool is that?! (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Bob, a belated thank you on telling me how the review process should work from now on. I have it on paper, but hearing it from someone experienced helps make it clearer. Training courses assumed we had been approved prior to filling a role and training for it. Thanks!!

Sorry--I hit post twice.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

ASM1, for someone who claims to be so well trained, I'm puzzled at how you can ask Eamonn this question. It is the role he has been asked to serve in. His qualifications would have been considered by those who appointed him to his current position. Just as he meets with, works with, builds up, and sometimes needs to suggest moving on to leaders, he also has those doing that above him. If he were to think too highly of himself and therefore not do his job well, he'd not have it any longer. You seem to be just insulting Eamonn, but just in case I read that wrong, maybe you want to become a District Chairman and are asking what qualifies him so you know if you qualify?

Packsaddle: do you have a place in the CO where you may keep the ribbons? The pack ribbons are currently on the flag, but I anticipate seeing the number of them increase pretty dramatically this year. However, other than the flag, we may not store or display anything at the CO. Anyone have suggestions for those ribbons that won't all continue to fit on the flag?? Also, the ribbons currently on the flag look to be 10 or more years old (we go back almost 50 years now). They are dusty looking. Is there a recommended way to clean them? And I'm guessing maybe the flag too? If those ribbons are dusty, the flag beneath probably is too. Neither can be replaced; the ribbons are our history; the flag has the old spelling of our community so it too is a piece of history. It looks like the packrat community is growing (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Are you looking for ideas to present at Roundtable? The Cub unit I serve is having an end-of-year family picnic with a Cub-annapolis, campfire graduation ceremony, and lots of outdoor games (with a Plan B of indoor games just in case of rain). Day camp, family one-night overnighter, and family two-night overnighter are planned. Conservation projects are planned: creek clean up, CO grounds clean up, and maybe a project/hike at a local wildlife refuge. Raingutter regatta and kite derby are also on the list, but they're tentative. The Troop I serve is holding all troop meetings outdoors all summer long. Camping continues. Not very much changes other than meeting more outdoors. Does this help? Summer's goal for both units is to spend as much time outside as possible.

Wow, that's super! I haven't seen posts from Outdoor Thinker recently, so please extend my congratulations to her. You sound quite proud of her; what a great support person you must be to her!

I am not untrained, but I have not attended Wood Badge. I will respectfully disagree with you that Wood Badge is not the only way to deliver the program as it's intended to be delivered. This is turning into an argument, and it was not my intent. If you prefer to consider me untrained because I've not yet attended Wood Badge, then you're welcome to your opinion and I'm bowing out of this discussion on that note.

"I have started a Blog about the problems in todays Scouting and how to fix them, or to suggest things to address. First let me say I have no clue what a Blog is, but it seems to be the rage nowadays." You are asking for team members for a Blog, though you don't know what it is? After reading the link, I have one thing to say: It does not take Wood Badge to obtain leaders committed to keeping Scouting a youth program. Though I've nothing against Wood Badge and hope to one day take part in it, I am one of many leaders who care deeply about carrying the program out as it's intended to be carried out.

ASM1, I am fully aware of that, and I even said it's not mine. I'm not sure what other thread you are referring to. My point, since it was missed, is that I just love working with the unit and am thrilled that we earned this ribbon as it took hard work to accomplish and feels just plain good. Eamonn, it is far too late for me as I am a packrat, and I am the daughter of a packrat who married a cleaning queen. Seems I got only the packrat gene! I can clean just fine, but my husband laughs when I start on closets because I usually disappear for hours...only to be found going through the boxes of photos and memoribilia I've collected instead of doing the actual clean up. That is so much more fun. Thanks for the warning, though sad to say, it came too late

EagleInKY: I have no less respect for you now than prior to this exchange, and I would hope that others would read what each person has to say and then judge (hate that word in this context) accordingly. I am right now on the receiving end of false accusations, and it is quite possible they will hurt my reputation. However, I know I have not done what I was accused of, and when I contacted the person named in this mess face to face, this person had no clue what I was speaking of and offered to help me out where possible. What it boils down to is this: my reputation really can only be tarnished by what I do. Yes, what others say can effect it but mostly to those who don't know me, and if I can stand before them with a clean conscience, having done nothing deserving of blame, then it is that same reputation that will actually help me through this mess. I hear what you are saying, and I think carefully about what I say of others, for I don't want to hurt or offend or to do harm to someone else's reputation. I love your example of how to approach an issue, but do you know I've been called a manipulator for using that very approach? Honestly, people see what they see--we just have to do our very best to do what we believe to be right, and to apply correction where and when necessary. Hopping off my soapbox now--and talking to myself here as much as to you

Thanks for confirming that Twocubdad What a great idea you've shared. We haven't received ribbons for anything for awhile, so this is new to the current leadership. We've a huge bunch on the flag already. The boys putting the ribbon on--I love that. Thank you!

I was presented with the 2004 Quality Unit ribbon yesterday during an emergency meeting out at council, and it is sitting here by my computer (aka Scout Central ), and I'm not so sure I want to give it up. Oh, I know, it's not mine--I have the patch for my uniform, the pin for my civilian clothing--but I like the ribbon too. The FOS ribbon is still here too. Good thing they didn't send the popcorn ribbon my way, although, like the popcorn itself, I might have tried to get rid of this one! Anyway, just curious: anyone else ever feel the desire to hang onto a unit award? Or am I truly nutty?

Oh no, Ed, you mentioned that name! I have to disagree with you on him having some good posts. He had posts that might have been good, but his attacks on others, on the BSA in general, combined with his refusal to consider any other opinion just tarnished everything he posted. That is the problem with continual nastiness or stubbornness: when one just wants to attack a person rather than an opinion, it devalues the posts IMO. When one is refusing to show that he is listening to other opinions/ideas, that also devalues future comments from that person. Around this campfire, like others, discussion is give and take. Without listening to you, I cannot intelligently respond to you. Of course, I may choose who to listen to, but I'm afraid I'll miss too much if I don't listen to all

For the longest time, in spite of asking, we had no clue in one unit that help was available. District, council--they seemed so far off and unknown--pretty much a separate entity rather than something we were part of. The DE and our former UC actually admitted to me that since the unit had "continued to continue on", it didn't need any help. I asked what about 75% of the pack youth being lost? Not a concern? No, it didn't get attention. I asked what about leaders who were frustrated, tired, untrained, and ready to leave? As in most leaders? No, it didn't get attention. I asked what about missing reports--no accountability fiscally and no apps for instance. No, it didn't get a attention either. We got attention in a way that seems quite backwards to me. We did get a new UC (nothing wrong with the other one--he simply was away too much and we needed him), did get training (though this was far harder than it should have been to do), did begin attending roundtables and taking part in district and council activities, began to send thank you and holiday notes to our UC and DE, and THEN we got attention. Privately, I had asked if we were folding and was told I was overreacting and dramatic when I listed the above. Then we were recognized at roundtable as a success story. During this roundtable, an announcement was made that three of four units labeled as folding were indeed folding. Then the unit I serve was named as a success story. Now we get help. We get offers of help, not just a willingness to help. What bothers me is that we at the unit level felt we needed to somehow prove we were worthy of the help. Isn't it the sick/failing units that need the help rather than those that are on track and growing? All that said, I like all that I've met in the district and council, found them to be truly devoted to Scouting, but remain at a loss as to why we'd be left to flounder, then suddenly get help when we built ourselves up.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

We have not recruited at any time but in the fall. Our pack is gaining a good reputation, the DE would like to promote it, and recruiting is beginning. I received a call today that alerted me to an area that is new and unfamiliar to us: the cost of the program when not registering during roundup. Giving the BSA membership fee was easy; I have the chart with pro-rated costs. However, how do you handle prices for those who come into a unit late in the year? We are pretty much wrapping up most of the advancements, getting ready for summer activities and the beginning of new ranks, but we work with a September to August fee calendar. Guidance from those with experience should would be appreciated. TIA!

How did the leaders meeting go? If you cannot get support from the CM, who should be thrilled that the boys are earning their badge of rank (and I speak as a CM), then please seek committee or unit commissioner or district executive assistance. There is no reason to deny a boy his badge if he worked on and completed the requirements. We register boys in September, usually don't settle into den meetings until early October, and by February most boys have earned their badges of rank. Six months is often doable, though there is no need to hurry to get done in that time frame, and there is certainly no reason to say it's too fast unless you are putting pressure on the boys (and it does not sound that way). If six months were too soon to earn the badge, 100% of the Cubs in the pack I serve are wearing badges they earned too soon this year. This type of thing just makes me mad--it's not serving the boys. Hang in there, and keep on having fun with the boys!

Also in the article: "The Scouts have leased the aquatics center land since November 1987 at no charge. They have spent $2 million to build the center. The city requires them to pay the cost of operation and maintenance. The lease expires in 2012." They may have leased it at no cost, but they sure put plenty of money into building the center, and then they maintained it. They also, in looking up more info on this center, did not use if for the BSA alone: "San Diego Youth Aquatic Center The San Diego Youth Aquatic Center officially opened its doors in 1992 to all youth organizations and is Desert Pacific Councils newest facility. The Youth Aquatic Center offers one of the nations finest aquatic and outdoor programs to youth in the Southwestern region of the United States. Located on Fiesta Island in the heart of beautiful Mission Bay Park, and adjacent to the newly renovated city operated Youth Campgrounds, the Youth Aquatic Center is home of "Camp Fiesta Island" Scout Camp, an accredited long term resident camp. San Diegos hospitable climate makes year round use of the Aquatic Center for large or small events and activities popular with youth groups and their leaders. Year Round at the Youth Aquatic Center Activities and special event usage for youth organizations up to 500 are available most weekends at the Aquatic Center, September through June. Youth groups such as Boys & Girls Clubs, Boy Scouts, Campfire Boys & Girls, Church youth groups, Girl Scouts, Sea Camp, YMCA Indian Guides and Princesss are welcome to enjoy activities like boating, meeting, picnics, safety education, training, and service projects, youth groups may also hold special events like camporees or regattas. Contact the Aquatic Center for reservations and assistance in planning your activity or event." Now the city has spent close to a million dollars in legal fees: "The city as part of that settlement agreed to pay the ACLU $790,000 in legal fees and $160,000 in court costs and step aside from any further litigation." Money that could have been far better spent, at least IMO. What I don't get is that this center was built by the BSA council, maintained by the BSA council, and then opened to other groups to use. Certain people were excluded from membership in the BSA due to not meeting membership criteria, but they were not denied access/use of the aquatics center. This seems to be just an expensive payback, but those legal fees sure won't benefit the community--the aquatics center could.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Accounting practices relative to Scouting (think of the scouting account conversation here as well as the many questions and issues that come up over the funds just on these forums.) First aid. I took this when council added it to Pow Wow. It was a full course, very much in demand, and it covered the basics--would LOVE to have more of this one. Leadership survival was the name of a course I took, but it dealt with recruiting--I was hoping for some tips on managing time, dealing with conflicts, and things of this nature from more experienced leaders. I like what you have so far--it sounds very different from what I took part in. We had Magic, Rockets, Camping, Cooking Outside, Native American Crafting and Lore (LOVED this course!), Whittling, and then some of what you named.

I'm really sorry to hear this happened. Regardless of circumstances, it is a sad situation. I know of a unit that recently did something similar, but it bypassed the person being removed--no private conversation was held with that person to my knowledge. That seems wrong IMO, and I said so, and I fought what was coming. Were the concerns valid? Yes, they were, though I don't know that any of the suspicions were ever validated; it is the method that bothered me. I sincerely hope this move that has been made was worthwhile for the unit you serve. By the way, don't be surprised if this leads to people being afraid they might be next to be removed. Best wishes to the unit you serve.