Kahuna

As I was thinking about what to say to Boys' Life, I refined some of my points and came up with the following: My friend's ten year old is a Buddhist boy. Buddhism has no concept of a god like the Old Testament God. Also, no concept of divine punishment for offending a higher being. And certainly, while there are Buddhist masters who have what could be considered divine qualities (eg, the Dalai Lama), there are none who would call down droughts, plagues or other punishment. So what would his reaction be to reading this story about Elijah calling down a drought on Israel? I assume most of the posters here are Christian. How would you feel about a story of a whole kingdom of people who became so enlightened that they dematerialized and are now in a celestial plane, without the aid of a supernatural being? And whose kings now sit in eternal watchfulness, protecting the enlightened (or those struggling to become enlightened) people down on Earth. Would that give rise to a lot questions from Christian boys? Would you be happy to see that appear in Boys' Life as a comic with the title "Shambala Stories," for it is indeed the story of the Kingdom of Shambala as believed by many Buddhists all over the world. Probably as many people believe that as believe that Jesus was the son of God. Do you see the problem here? There are many non Christian or Jewish boys (I'm not sure what the Muslem take on Elijah is) who read Boys' Life. What's the point of causing them problems? In fact, what's the point of the Bible Stories in general? Is it religious education? If so, why one religion? Is it historical, as suggested above? If so, why not the histories of other religions? If you cannot answer that you would support the Shambala Story I reference above, and I know some who couldn't, then how do you support Bible Stories being in Boys' Life at all?

I had no problem reaching the pic. Maybe you should copy and paste the URL in your browser. Great old pic, btw. Reminds me of my old days.

Alito is doing pretty well, I think. The Dems are going to get increasingly nasty as they try to shake him up. I don't think it's going to work.

Listening to Teddy always has that effect on me. Of course, all those guys really love to listen to themselves talk. Teddy took his entire time just to beat up on George Bush and his fear that Alito (who he once called "Alioto") might ever take his side on some issue. Joe Biden is another one that's fun to listen to. He spends most of his questioning time, making speeches. Works to Alito's advantage, since he doesn't have to answer as many questions from Joe.

Cubs, that was exactly my point. I wouldn't be offended by stories of Greek gods, Hindu traditions, or the story of the Kingdom of Shambala, a more or less legendary Tibetan kingdom that gave rise to the story of Shangri-la. Neither, probably, would most others. While I agree that stories from the Bible are part of our heritage as a nation, so are many other bits of history and legend. It just seems to me that BL should expand its story base somewhat. I intend to send them a suggestion similar to that of Trevorum.

The BSA is filled with professionals that don't really know what they are talking about, and it is best to be armed with the correct information before you meet with someone whose first impulse may be to say "no." They would know a heck of a lot more if they got out of their air-conditioned offices and had to run a summer camp. Having said that, some of the worst camp directors I ever encountered were DE's. Back in ancient times when I was camp staffer, we had a volunteer run council camp, but they sent out one of the DE's every week to represent the council. Some of them were a real pain and wanted to change everything we'd been doing all summer. Then, there was this DE camp director at Camp Daniel Boone . . . But, that's a story for another time. I don't know of any reason a troop can't run its own summer camp. We used to do a fifty miler every summer which featured all the aspects of running summer camp and then some (I know more about treating blisters and foot problems than a podiatrist). As to all the requirements, if you get a tour permit you should be covered, yes?

My Vigil name is Anhoktonhen, The Interpreter. I had to look up the spelling after almost forty years.

Sorry to be confusing. The stories don't offend me. The fact that they are in Boys' Life Magazine without any corresponding stories from other religious settings offends me.

To answer some of these points in no particular order: I don't think BL can assume that the stories are historical and actually happened. An Old Testament prophet causes a drought because Ahab doesn't do what he (or God) wants? Certainly believing or disbelieving that is a matter of faith, not history. Cancel your subscription? Yes, you could leave the BSA, too, but as I understand it, the BSA is not for Christian boys and Jewish boys, but for boys who subscribe to its principles. BL is not some independent magazine, like Scouters Journal. It is the voice of the BSA, which is its publisher. It should be inclusive of all boys, not just the majority religions. Bible stories are not the same as putting as the Ten Commandments on a public building. The Ten Commandments are part of our legal and national heritage. The story of Elijah is not. Both my friend and I are Eagle Scouts of a long ago era. Neither one of us has been reading BL for many years. As I said earlier, Bible stories would not have raised anybody's antenna 50 years ago. I certainly have not been aware of this feature and would have thought it faded away, along with many other examples of how "mainstream" religions were previously taken for granted. I don't think Bible Stories is the same as ads. Yes, I would wonder, too, about some of the ads found in BL. But, an ad is an ad. A feature like Bible Stories is a feature. It has the same presumption of endorsement as would the cover story of the issue I saw about Killer Drugs. You would not expect that article to endorse the use of Xanax or Ambien by Scouts. While adding feature items, like Quran Stories or Dharma Stories, might be more fair to minority religions, it also would present some difficulties to the editors. Yes, what about polygamy? I am sure BL would have no difficulty in finding responsible cartoonists to do age-appropriate strips, depicting other religions, if they sought them out. I doubt that they do. I'm sure BSA is not promoting a particular religion, they are just running a feature that may be of interest to kids. But, I return to my original question: What's it doing in there in the 21st Century. Scouting does have a religious component, of course, but what purpose does it serve for kids to read (if they do read) stories from a particular religious slant? While Scouting has a religious component, it puts itself in the position of appearing to push one point of view. I just do not see BL as a proper forum for religious comic strips. Personally, I don't find the stories offensive, but some would. It just doesn't strike me as a good idea.

I haven't been reading BL, that's for sure. I did read it back in the 60's, but Bible stories wouldn't have raised my antenna (or most people's) in those days. This is not then. My question remains: what are they doing in there and does BL feature Quran stories or Book of Mormon stories? I can pretty much guarantee BL has lost one subscriber on this one and am amazed it hasn't become controversial.(This message has been edited by Kahuna)

A friend from the Sangha today handed me a copy of Boys' Life from November. It was his son's, a ten year old Webelos. My friend is an Eagle Scout and has been very active with Cubs. I very seldom see BL and then only to look at a specific item. In there was a page titled Bible Stories and featured a story about the Prophet Elijah. Had to do with a drought brought on by Elijah, with God's permission. My questions are: first, what is this doing in there? Is Boys' Life a religious magazine? Second, does BL feature stories from the Quran? From writings of Buddah? From the Book of Mormon? I know some of you will probably support those stories. They are non-Christian, per se, and could apply to Jewish, LDS or Christian Scouts, but why does BL see fit to put religious stuff in it? I have been one of those who has supported the religious requirements and entanglements of the BSA, but I find this offensive. I also find it ill advised. With the kind of enemies the BSA faces, they don't need trouble in this quarter.

Wow, that's a tough one. Thoughts are with you and his family.

Thanks for posting that bit of history. I have long thought our founders would be rolling over in their graves if they could see a typical BSA operation, like a camporee or FOS of today. I've done a lot of reading on B-P, James West and Bill Hillcourt, but very little on Seton and some of the others. I'll have to correct that deficiency in the coming year.

I'm not especially interested in discussing evolution and certainly don't want any nonscientific theories taught as science in the public schools. However, I am curious as to whether any of the posters on this thread have seen the movie What The Bleep Do We Know?, which was in theaters earlier this year and now is out on DVD. It features interviews with physicists and others in science who discuss the ways in which human thought affects the quantum field in ways that are not entirely understood. There have been a series of conferences at which some of the presenters expand on their views and findings. Some of things they discuss are scientifically provable, others are not. Some Christians consider the movie anti-Christian, because it pretty much assumes that a non-Christian or even an atheist could affect the universe in the same way as religions view prayers that are answered. I didn't see it that way. Anyway, I would be interested if anyone who saw it has any thoughts in light of the discussions here. There's a website if you aren't familiar with the movie: http://www.whatthebleep.com/

Those old dress uniforms with the collar insignia were a very cool uniform. Always thought it was a mistake to do away with it when they went to the Hart Schafner Marx monstrosity. I went to camp about 15 years ago with a group from another council. One of their ASMs, who was probably in his late forties, put on his old Explorer uniform: green pants and shirt, brown tie, green overseas cap. He had the whole uniform from his teenage days and could still get into it.

>>Of course first the monopoly has to be broken. Watch the battle between Pan Am and TWA in The Aviator, then multiply that by the "religious war" factor to get an idea of just how nasty this is going to be!

If you read the news, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that: 1)Christmas is under attack from the liberal media, the ACLU and other groups who merely wish to destroy our society for reasons I don't fully understand. 2)That Christians and other reasonable people are getting fed up with it, are coming out in force to say "enough is enough." I'm a Buddhist and therefore have no dog in this fight, but I can see the forces at work. BTW, I would like to point out that Buddha's birthday and the person of Buddha per se are not a big deal in Buddhism. Nor are there any significant universal Buddhist celebrations that would be the equivalent of Christmas. Merry Christmas to all.

Thanks for posting that link, Mike. I couldn't find anything with a Google search earlier.

I just saw an item on Fox News about a 14 year old Boy Scout who ended up with a knife stuck into his head directly above and between his eyes. It took several hours of surgery to remove it. Fox had a pic of the xray showing the blade sticking into his head. It seems that another scout was using the knife for some purpose and tried to catch someone or something that was falling, throwing away the knife as he went. Through Murphy's Law, there was a scout right where he threw it. Million to one odds I guess that it didn't miss everyone altogether, go into one of the kids eyes or penetrate far enough into the brain to do serious damage. Apparently, the kid is just fine. The news bit didn't mention when this happened, but I got the impression it has been some time. I wonder if the knife wielding scout lost his toten' chip?

I don't know what thread count, etc, cotton the old ones were made of. I have four of them from the 1935 and 1937 jamborees that were pretty well worn at time (although not at the '35 jambo of course). They are still in good shape and would have been very comfortable to wear.

Seems to me the real question is, why are they putting up tents in a line, like a military boot camp exercise? Doesn't make much sense from an outdoor standpoint or from a patrol method standpoint. The harrassment is a more or less natural outgrowth of the method they are using. Doesn't make it right, but it is natural. Seems to me the Scout should be asking if we can't do it the way it shows in the camping books, where each patrol is together.

What? You don't have their IM addresses, too?

I went to a wedding on the mainland last summer and wore a tie then. Shoes, too. First time in probably five years (well, I do wear shoes occasionally out here).

I guess I must be just a little less than prescient. More than 30 years ago, I said what the BSA should do to raise money is sell custom designed uniforms based on donation level. If you gave a couple of thousand (in those days) you would get a dress uniform with gold braid and epaulets like Navy admirals used to wear. A little more and you could carry a dress sword. I only missed it by a little. You can't buy a dress sword uniform but you can buy an award for yourself. James E. West, Baden-Powell Fellowships and other awards for dumping out some bucks and, best of all, making your council beneficiary of your life insurance. I used to think I was safe by contributing only to capital campaigns that went to build camps. Then they sold one of "my" camps!

I continue to be amazed that camps cannot be made to be profitable, or at least no cost. I realize not every council is as lucky as Central Florida, where they can get "tourist" troops to come spend time while they visit Disney, but even there the South Florida Council camp just a short distance away was sold because it wasn't profitable. I admit I have no idea of operating costs for camps these days and I'm sure they are astronomical compared to what they were in my days of camp management. I do know that volunteers are available to work on and at camps and I wonder how much effort is really made to utilize their skills.