Kahuna

A'ole pilikia! (You're welcome)

I just remembered that in the early days, these things were called Associate Membership Enrollment (AME). Later, in some councils, they were called Family Enrollment.

I can tell you a little, maybe others can fill in the gaps. I know that in the early 1970s, a lot of councils were doing what is now called FOS. It had different names in different councils, but the object was to get donations from people close to Scouting. In South Florida, we had district "clubs" for people to enroll in. I don't know, but I doubt that there is a national mandate for it. A council is pretty much responsible for its own finances and if they could do without it, I don't think BSA would require it.

San Francisco has a port museum authority set up that was funded to accept the ship, at least partly with private contributions (and, I think some state funds). The organization was very anxious to have the ship there, as were a lot of citizens. The city officials were quoted as saying that the ship represented war and was connected, somehow, with the war in Iraq. Odd, since the ship has been mothballed since about 1990. It was definitely political correctness, not money or space. Stockton will apparently have no problem in creating a non-profit to operate the ship as a memorial.

I could not support either party as it is today. I always register Libertarian and usually vote Republican. Voting Libertarian (which is pretty much my philosophy) means throwing away my vote, so I don't do that. I will give money to a party to oppose someone I fear on the other side or to a candidate. People who are active members of either party will usually tell you that you can only make changes by working within the system. That sounds reasonable, but judging the actions of the leadership of both parties, it doesn't appear that they are responsible to their constituancies. It is also true that if you don't register as a Democrat or a Republican, you are excluded from voting in the primaries and therefore have no say in who actually runs in the main election. I agree with Scoutldr, it's better to vote the issues and the candidates, not the party.

>>I'll bet they'll be sorry next time some foreign power tries to invade

Alas, Semper, she's already up the river, so she'll probably just be towed on up to Stockton.

In their typical wacky fashion the city government of San Francisco has decided that the USS Iowa is too warlike for their taste and somehow connected with the war in Iraq, so they have decided to decline the honor of hosting it as a museum and memorial. The good news is that the ship will very likely go to Stockton, a much more conservative area upriver, which will be very happy to have it. Sea Scouting is quite active in that area, too, so it's very possible that Sea Scouts will have some presence aboard the "Big Stick."

Yes, a Sea Scout Skipper is eligible for any Venturing awards that are available to an Advisor.

Aloha fgoodwin, The reason gay Scouts haven't been causing problems is because they would be kicked out the unit for sexual behavior which isn't allowed. Of course, there is sexual behavior among Scouts, most of whom are not gay, but they keep it quiet for the same reason. I also think that, until being gay is completely acceptable among boys or girls of this age, they would just as soon it not be known. Which is why I don't think you would see a lot of open gays in Scouting, even if it was allowed. >>And once gays can openly tent and shower with straights, then we should also remove the ban on males and females tenting and showering together

Aloha funscout, Adults require a lot of things. Some are essential, like medical exams, others less so. Boy leaders don't set advancement requirements or summer camp rules. The uniform is part of the program. If you go to a Jamboree, you must have a uniform. Doesn't mean the program isn't boy run, it just means the adult leaders set some of the big rules. It's up to the adults to decide if they think the uniform is a big deal and how they want to proceed. If they do think it is (and I would be one of those) you can either dictate or you can use leadership. Thru leadership, you can influence the boy leaders and convince them it is a big deal, then let them take care of it.

>>What would they apologize for?>It was clearly meant as a jab at one person and no thought was given that it could possibly offend other purple heart veterans (many of whom earned the award with the same kinds of wounds as Kerry - the military admits that during the Vietnam War, these awards were given out by the bucketload).

I still think we're worrying about things that may or may not ever become issues. A couple of thoughts pass thru my mind. Of course, you have to honor a request from parents that their son not tent with a gay Scout. As a practical matter, in troops I've associated with, the boys work out their own sleeping arrangements and it probably won't be much of a problem. Presumably, since COs can make policy decisions about things like mixed gender leaders or youth members in Venturing, they can also exclude gay kids if they want to do so. I also think you will not have many gays that will "out" themselves, so most of them will be, as they are now, unknown. If you think you don't have, or will have, gay kids in your troop today, you are deluding yourself. In most cases, they don't cause problems now and probably won't in the future. It also strikes me that this issue will turn out differently than we think. There were dire predictions about bringing women in as leaders and girls in as youth members, most of which have proved wrong.

>>they were just mocking a highly decorated Purple Heart veteran who chose to enlist rather avoid the draft like many of the leaders of their party

>>I mean, mocking an award given to our fighting men and women injured in battle especially in wartime was just over the top.

I think some of you are waaaay overthinking this. The Venturing program, by and large, manages to handle the boy/girl thing without major problems. As to the gay issue, I have seen it come up so seldom that I can't imagine it being a big issue. The most egregious case I was aware of was young teen Boy Scout, so it isn't just the older ones. Seems to me that, as happened in that case, you deal with it when it happens. If a gay kid is "out," you have to deal with that issue according to your own beliefs. Sexual behavior among kids in Scouting is just not tolerated. We have enough trouble figuring out how to manage to get the kids and the adults showered and take care of other bathroom functions without mixing.

I was on staff at Philmont in 1965 during the great flood of that year. Philmont actually shut down for a couple of days, fortunately, there were no campers on the ranch yet. We sang a different version of the hymn: Philmont here's to thee Scouting misery Underneath the sea Tonight

>>As a matter of fact, the Woodbadge Course Director Kahuna mentioned was violating BSA policy and was clearly discriminatory.

This is a fascinating issue. Educators, after years of assuming that boys are just being intentionally obnoxious, are finally realizing they really aren't just like girls. I hope the trend continues. Too many boys are on Ritalin and other behavior modification drugs to keep them under control.

Thanks for posting that link. I have the original record, but no longer have a turntable to play it on. It will be nice to have it available. My copy dates from about 40 years ago, but it's still almost pristine.

To be fair, there are some LDS units that are well experienced. We took a group from South Florida on our bus to camp years ago. They were a great group of kids. They melded with another LDS group at camp and then came back home with us. They had some kind of dispensation to allow them to travel on Sunday and not attend regular church. We got very close with them and were invited to a couple of their Eagle ceremonies later. My dentist in Florida was an LDS Scoutmaster who went through all the training and eventually became a great district chairman. He had seven boys, so I guess he was stuck in it for a lot years anyway. Another interesting issue Greying Beaver omitted is temple underwear. Has nothing to do with safety, as far as I know, but once an LDS achieves the priesthood and admitted to the Temple, he thereafter wears a special type of one-piece underwear. It's quite long in the legs and prevents wearing normal shorts. I believe they have modified it somehow in recent years, but way back you would never see Mormon adults in shorts. Only reason I know about is a local Woodbadge course some years ago had a staffer that was LDS and wasn't going to wear shorts. The Course Director gave him an ultimatum and (I don't know how he worked it out) the guy wore shorts the rest of the course week.

My sympathies, Eamonn. I have three schnauzers waiting for me at the Rainbow Bridge. The loss of every one of them was like a child to me. In each case, I have gotten another one asap. They don't replace the one that's lost, but they add a lot to my life. I'm glad you have other dogs to share your grief and your life.

Wow, Skipper, you are obviously doing a great job! That's a really impressive number of kids. My guess is that you'll find more of the boys will drop out of their troops, at least as far as activity goes, over time. The ship is a new thing and new to them. Once it's an established ship more boys will probably see they can get Eagle there and stay in OA and not have to hang out with the little guys. Bravo Zulu!

Merlyn, Now that I've apologized for my discourtesy in misspelling your screen name, let me respond to just one of your points and then lapse into silence. When you say you want to have a discussion on a subject, you state the impossible. You do not discuss. You do not argue. You simply badger. In a discussion, one does not: Ridicule or dismiss the point of view of the other party. SCREAM at them repeatedly in posts. Retaliate in juvenile fashion to an obvious misspell by deliberately misspelling the other party's screen name. One does: Acknowledge the point of view of the other person. Use polite language, even if you think he is an idiot. No charge for the advice (it's usually $125 an hour), Merlyn and good luck in your efforts. Kahoona

I spelled it Kahoona in reply to your post that spelled my nickname "Merlin" Merlyn, My abject apology.