Joni4TA

Yes, bsalegal.org is definitely official. It''s linked right from National''s website as such - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=promox&c=http://www.bsalegal.org On the left side of the main page under "More Scouting Info" in the scroll box, color is tan. I guess there''s been so many legal issues they had to create a whole separate website just for them.

Position of Responsibility - true enough. I suppose all "Positions of Responsibility" aren''t necessarily considered Youth Leadership? Maybe? I don''t know? Because most Scouts who hold a "Position of Responsibility" generally attend the PLC, that would make them part of the Leadership wouldn''t it? Not all appointed youth positions hold votes on the PLC (like the Scribe who just records what happens in the Troop or the Librarian and Historian). This policy sounds ambiguous to me as it relates to the Youth, especially where it says "older" boy as well. As Trevorum pointed out, what if a "younger" boy holds himself out to be homosexual? I totally get the Adult Leader stance - if he/she is "known" or "avowed" - they''re removed from their position. It sounds like if you have a "known" or "avowed" homosexual ASPL, he too is to be removed from his position, only if he''s "older". But then what?

I didn''t want to bring this up to hash it again, I am just curious about something specific and need some clarification. The BSA policy on homosexuality is on this website: http://www.bsalegal.org/morally-straight-cases-225.asp And in regards to Youth, specifically Youth Leadership it says, "In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position." Does this mean that a Boy Scout who is a "known" or "avowed" homosexual can REMAIN a Boy Scout, but can never hold a Youth Leadership position? If so, the obvious issue with this is, every Boy Scout Rank from Star Scout on to Eagle requires a Leadership position to move forward to the next rank. A homosexual Scout would remain no more than a First Class Scout, indefinitely, and never be a Patrol Leader or hold any other leadership positions such as Scribe, Librarian, Quartermaster, etc. I dont know that there would be any incentive for a Boy to stay in a Troop where he can never serve as a Youth Leader nor move forward in rank. Perhaps this is, by design, what this policy effects?

I had several boys this past summer camp earn their "Water Skiing" MB, and our computer program, Troopmaster, doesn''t even have that as an option anymore for a merit badge - it is simply called "Water Sports" already. I checked the Boy Scout Requirements 2007 book and there was no such animal as Water Sports, but they did have Water Skiing. So I emailed Troopmaster Tech Support and they told me, "this past summer, BSA has changed this badge to include a wake boarding option and has renamed the badge to Water Sports. It is the same badge but now has a different name. Since this badge change only took place over the summer, it was not yet listed when the 2007 books were printed at the beginning of the year." I turned in the Advancements Report to Council and District that prints out from Troopmaster. It said "Watersports" and I added a "/ Water Skiing" afterward. On the Boys'' Blue cards it said Water Skiing, so I had to annotate something on the Advancements Report. And on their foofy foofy card that comes with the badge itself, I wrote "Watersports/Water Skiing" because of what their blue cards said! Have to cover all bases until everyone is doing it "the new way."

Yeah, we are doing it (filling in the new apps and what MBs we want to teach in the attaching paperwork). It just sucks. I asked District/Council for a printout of all the local MBCs because I wanted to work from that to contact folks and get them to update their info, and deal with the new application process. They wiped ''em out when the new policy came into effect about requiring dual-applications for currently registered adult leaders who are also MBCs. So it appears we are starting from scratch basically anyway! OH THE FUN!

Honestly I am beginning to think food serving is going to be the way to go for us. A Spaghetti dinner is dirt cheap to make and would net some profit. Exposure could be done in the newspaper and of course selling "plate tickets" - sort of like raffle tickets but you KNOW you''re going to get something out of it. Texas is the BBQ Capitol of the world of course and we''d have too much competition on that front, from the little hole in the wall mom & pop restaurants close by. Texans are dead serious about TWO things for sure - their Football and their BBQ! LOL Bad BBQ is talked about in every social circle, and folks around here are willing to travel far and wide for GOOD BBQ. I wouldn''t want our Troop to be associated with the bad goo-goo of negative BBQ critique We are Chartered by a Baptist church. I, myself am not a Baptist and our family does do Halloween trick-or-treating, but many of our Troop members don''t believe in the whole Halloween scene. They do have other things going on at the church. I think they do something called a "reality house" and have what they call a Fall or Harvest Festival, instead of "Halloween." Personally I would lean towards the spaghetti dinner, but I think I am biased. I am Sicilian and I can help whip up a few huge pots of homemade pasta sauce like it''s nothing. I don''t know yet what the Boys will be interested in doing. (You know pre-teens and teenagers, they don''t really WANT to do ANYTHING unless you are dragging them by the ears) But we''re gathering information from all possible sources to give the boys some ideas. Ultimately they are the ones who need to make a decision on the matter. In the meantime, we are still busting tail trying to sell that Popcorn. We are driving all over with the boys trying to hit the "subdivisions" we do have in the local area (houses are more than 500ft. apart so it''s slow-going). We have like 8 days left for Show & Sell/Deliver and we''ve sold $560 worth of Popcorn (and have over $1300 left to sell). The Scouts, collectively, have put in over 34 hours sales time doing this. Of course, what does the Troop end up getting out of $600? Like $200 dollars - OUCH!

SSScout - It''s a Unit Money-Earning Application! And yep I know we''ll need one of those. We just happen to be in the talking about it phase right now. Wreaths were something one of our lady committee members suggested. While I believe they might be great sales in the northeastern US, New England, and most "cities", I just don''t get the feeling they''ll sell too hot in rural, farm-town South central Texas. I could be wrong.... Plus, I believe just about anything that the boys will have to sell door-to-door is going to give us trouble. Here''s why: Our town has a population of 931. In our town itself there are not that many homes on "regular streets" as in a normal city-type of subdivision. Property around here is in excess of 2 acres per house in most cases. I live on 5 acres in the unincorporated county (5 miles from "town"), and many homes further down the main drag than mine are on 10 acres and more - much more in some cases. When you have that many acres between houses, it''s very time-consuming and very difficult to get sales door-to-door. We do not have any "stores" in the area with the exception of Dollar General, which we have lovingly named our "Town Mall" because it has a little bit of everything inside. We have 3 gas stations (who all serve food like pizza and fried chicken), one Dairy Queen and a Sonic. Generally, we try to set up Popcorn tables at one of the 3 gas stations each year. Those haven''t netted us very well for Popcorn. Not sure how''d they''d do for us on some other product. A Car Wash was brought up once - but our Chartered Org. felt that would be a liability having Scouts wash cars on their property. Not just for what might happen to the Scouts, but what might happen to people''s cars. So we left that one alone. SSScout, all that service you guys did at the County Fair? *Faint* We just did that for FREE! Logged in over 160 Community Service Hours for a Bicycling/Racing event sponsored by our town''s Historical Society. We handled all the trash and emptied the trash cans in the park into big dumpsters, sorted all the recyclables for the day, moved ice from a reefer truck to the various coolers around the city park, handed cold water to bike racers who crossed the finish line, helped direct traffic, cheered on the racers, you name it. No $$$ for that - We worked our tails off! It would have been nice to get a little dough for it, but what can one do? I don''t know - that''s why I came here, to bounce around some ideas. We''ve done a garage/yard sale too - we made $300 over 2 days. It was doable, but a major pain in the rear, and the money we made as profit wasn''t all that great - again - exposure was an issue.

I remember Trails End Popcorn being an exciting time, with plenty of potential opportunity for sales - - - - When my son was a Cub Scout at least. Now that our Troop is having to sell Popcorn and compete with two Packs (one quite sizeable) in a very small rural town - needless to say our Boy Scouts aren''t faring very well at Popcorn sales. It was no different for Girl Scout cookies - our daughters, as Brownies, always sold better than our Juniors and Seniors. We''ve been considering $1 candy bars, wreaths, first aid kits, $1 slim jim type meat sticks, etc. We''ve also tossed around the idea of a big community spaghetti dinner. And of course any sales we do will always fall within a sales time where the school, theater group, football team, cheerleaders, Girl Scouts, etc. are also trying to raise money - plainly said, there is never really a "good time" to sell anything in this town, without some stiff competition. We have done bake sales, rummage sales, can collecting, popcorn. Just curious what other non-city Troops (of less than 15 boys) have done to earn money for their units that''s worked?

I was hoping this thread would give me some insight to the problem, but I still can''t upload anything new to our Troop website. I am so mad at myself for deleting all the files, thinking I could just replace them with the new ones. Had I not deleted everything, our Troop would have at least had a website. Now we get a blank page Any news on how soon we can expect a fix on this? Thank you. Joni

Over and over again, no matter what files I try to upload - I am getting this message: Server object error ''ASP 0177 : 800401f3'' Server.CreateObject Failed /hosting/add_files.asp, line 98 800401f3 -------------------------------- What is going on ?????????? I deleted every single file I had uploaded to the server (the old files) so that I could replace them with updated, new files - an entirely new website. And now I can''t get anything at all to upload. So our Troop has NO WEBSITE at all! Help! Our Troop parents rely on the site for the calendar link and we are in the middle of Trails End Popcorn sales - we''ve told everyone to check out our website for more information!!!!!! What can we do? Who do I have to send email to???? HELP!!!!

I am having the same problem - here is the message I am getting: Server object error ''ASP 0177 : 800401f3'' Server.CreateObject Failed /hosting/add_files.asp, line 98 800401f3 ------------------------------------- I wish I would have known I was going to have a problem uploading changes BEFORE I went and deleted all the old files off the server Now our Troop isn''t going to have a website at all until Scouter.com hosting can iron out the problems.

It does seem silly for extra applications, physicals, etc. - seems to me it could have been "grandfathered" or something, for those already MBC''s. But - I guess there''s no way around it. It''s probably a good time to update our MBC list anyhow, considering it''s been a few years. Some of us might want to be listed to teach more, less or different MB''s since we''ve revised our list. And some requirements have even changed. But UGH the added paperwork - I am dreading it!

I have a question. Prior to the requirement for all MBC''s to register/fill out an application for the local BSA Council, our unit had a list of Unit Leaders who were also MBC''s. Do we all have to fill out NEW applications to remain MBC''s? What have others done?

Very much agreed to CP and Ev, I discussed this with the CC and another committee member, and we''ve all agreed to just go about our scheduling and sell popcorn and forget about the rest. If I catch any flak from the D-Popcorn Chair, I will just tell her how I reflected on the whole idea and decided it was unrealistic. If she pushes it, I will probably take my issue above her, to Council or wherever it needs to go. In the interim, I am not going to let it bother me. Personally, I don''t think she EVER really HAD any plan, and was just trying to stroke the egos of the unit and/or units around ours who complained. Not my problem though! Our Troop has a goal to meet, schedules to make and popcorn to sell! Que Sera Sera! Interestingly enough, I am friends (through Girl Scouts) with the other town Troop''s Popcorn Kernel, and she and I talked about it - she said splitting anything up would be silly since we don''t do that for Girl Scout cookies and there are 5 times as many Girl Scout Troops in this town as there are Boy Scouts! She''s right! And we agreed - to each their own on the Popcorn issue. Ehh, we''re just moving along and forgetting about it! If the D-Popcorn Chair has any sense, she will too!

evmori!! You know they (Council) has already "got you" once you've turned in that "Committment Card" for selling Which I did about 3 days before this whole "sales area division" plan! Yes, Gunny!!! I can and DO track sales from my own Troop, and yes I keep a record of what each individual Scout is doing as well. I don't think I understand your question though. Maybe that's why the answer I gave sounded ambiguous. I can TRY to coordinate what we're doing so as not to step on toes of other units. And I will. I just got the impression that the D-Popcorn Chair/Unit Commissioner intended to micro-manage that part as well. But you're absolutely right - she SHOULDN'T BE! That would be my job. Thanks for reminding me, actually. Maybe the perfect answer was as clear as the nose on my face, and I just didn't want to see it - circumvent the micro-management!

I deleted the old and uploaded new index.html and all the image files to update the website over an hour ago. Does anyone know if something is going on with the Scouter.com webhosting - our Troop's webpage doesn't seem to be updating. I have deleted all my temp internet files, history, and cookies. I restarted my browser. Still nothing. Any ideas? Thanks!

Lead by example, but let them alone to learn by their mistakes? Tough spot. Convincing them to scale back or "try it out "first" sounds the way to go. I would nearly insist/coerce them to take a dry run and do a time-trial. I would hate to see a failure due to lack of proper planning. I would feel bad for the girls running it, but worse for the 40-60 patrols trying to participate in the event. Sometimes we all forget to see the forest through the trees. I hope they open up eyes wide before it's too late!

Gunny, I am not sure exactly how the D-Popcorn Chair is considering tracking sales information for each unit, where they go, when they sell, etc. Her "master plan" has yet to be revealed to our Unit. And here it is, 4 days before Show & Sell orders are due at Trails End. Frankly I don't have time to wait for her to figure out what she's doing, if truth be known. Our Troop has a sales goal, and we want to meet it! That is what I know is certain! And I need to start gathering volunteers and setting up schedules with the who, what, when why and hows of selling popcorn. I, personally, do not have the ability to track the other two units' sales per Scout or anything like that. I assume (and I hate to use this word) that the D-Popcorn Chair believes she will be able to track this type of information. She happens to also be our Unit Commissioner, but I honestly have no idea how she plans to go about it. We're two weeks out from Popcorn kick-off and she hasn't even brought her plan of town division of sales territory to us, except to say it's what she WANTS to do, about 2-3 weeks ago. I drafted an email to the D-Popcorn chair just this week, and requested our Troop preference to handle sales at 3 specific subdivisions - yes ONLY 3 (there's probably a good 30 sub-d's in our local area, PLUS downtown). I also told her if there were no problems with my request, I would begin scheduling my Troop to sell ASAP. Her response was, "I'll take your preferences into consideration and do my utmost to grant your wish!" But that was it! No further elaboration on her plan, nor how she deems it to work. I just don't know... I feel like maybe I jumped the gun agreeing to this blatant micro-management of our unit's annual fundraiser. Our unit's interest is to beat feet and sell popcorn so we can earn money for a new Troop equipment trailer. We honestly can't afford to wait around for the D-Popcorn chair to make up her mind on what she's doing or how she thinks WE should proceed. Does that make sense? I don't want to ruffle her feathers, but I really have an aversion to this plan. Mainly because - A) we have deadlines to meet, and she hasn't produced anything solid for us to go on to plan with, and B) because the Council is expressly against what she's proposing in the first place! I also don't want to go up to Council and "tattle" on her either. I want to handle it quietly/diplomatically, and get on with the business at hand - Getting our Popcorn SOLD!

I wondered what that was!!!! That whole http://www.xvgaoke... thing is happening to me too!

When I was a Den Leader, I kept an advancement chart on the wall at the Den meeting place so our boys could see how their progress was coming along. And I provided updates to the Pack Advancements Chair so she could order the badges, belt-loops, etc. When I was a Pack Advancements Chair, I used PackMaster (unit management software), had Den Leader's keep their information for the den on their own computer and provide me den updates (on disc) a week before Pack meetings, so I could get the new awards in time to present to the boys come Pack meeting night. Now I do Troop Advancements, and I use TroopMaster software. There are far less patches, doo-dads and what nots for Boy Scouts, so it's easier. At this level I am pretty much the lone record keeper for all boy's advancements.

Our Committee consists of a usual 3 folks - the CC, Treasurer and the Advancements chair. We also just recruited a new MC, so that (hopefully) will make 4 steady folks. Makes it hard for BOR's and other important committee functions when you work with a skelton crew. We have 20 Scouts in our Troop, too - so it's not like we're that small. In a way, I don't mind that we have a little committee; it makes decision-making quick and painless. On the other hand, it bites us in the butt when we NEED people. We keep begging, but we can't force volunteers to join up with us. Hopefully we'll be more effective as we plan to do some recruiting soon - new parents = fresh volunteers. LOL However, because we are a small committee, we have a SM and about 5 ASM's as well. We require a LOT of input from them in order to conduct committee business. And we encourage parents to attend our monthly meetings as well. I guess that makes us an OPEN committee.

I have a zealous District Popcorn Chair this year, that apparently heard a complaint from one of the three Scout units (2 troops, 1 pack) in our SMALL rural town (population 2,000 *or less*), regarding last year's popcorn sales. The complaint was from either the Pack or Troop A - something to the effect that "Troop B was "EVERYWHERE" and "cut-in" on our territory." This was probably the excuse they gave for poor sales program management, and not having enough Popcorn sales last year - blame the other local unit! But I digress.... Now the D-Popcorn Chair insists that we need to "share" the city, and she wants to assign areas (specific residential subdivisions) for each unit to sell in this year, and rotate the areas around for years to come. I went to our Council's Popcorn training last night, as I am Troop B's Unit Popcorn Kernal. The Council Fundraising Chair was EXPRESSLY AGAINST dividing any town into Territorial sales areas, and actually encouraged cross-sales of the units. Council felt it was in fact better, to have more than one unit visit a home, knock on a door, approach consumers - basically Council felt that the more exposure a community had to Scouts selling popcorn, the more sales opportunity there would be. In retrospect I have NEVER had any "stepping on toes" kinds of issues with neighboring units regarding popcorn sales, wherever I have lived. With the way we all have different networks, friends, churches, schools, sports teams, etc. that our children are into - there should be cross-sales across the country!!! So this complaining from one (or both possibly) of the other 2 small units in our town, seems kind of silly. With a town of 2,000 people, some businesses, a bunch of churches, 3 gas station/convenience stores etc. - why can't they sell any popcorn? Why blame another unit for their lack of sales? At first I agreed to the D-Popcorn Chair's proposal this year to split up the town areas. I didn't want any "bad-blood" between the units. But it bothered me some to agree to this. For one thing, our Troop wasn't "EVERYWHERE" last year - we handled 4 specific subdivisions (without anyone from District telling us to) for Take Order Sales, and they were the subdivisions our own Scouts happen to live in!! We did do Show & Sell/Deliver, one day - every week - at ONE of the most popular gas station/convenience stores in town (we have 3 gas station/convenience stores). Again, we arranged this without District assistance or interference. We never ONCE saw ANY Scouts from the Pack or Troop A out selling popcorn, ANYWHERE last year. In fact, my Realtor lives in a subdivision that we didn't touch for Take Order (because we didn't have any Scouts living in it and already had enough on our plate), and she complained that she never even SAW a Scout at all last year. So I have to know - is it really OUR fault that either the Pack or Troop A didn't make the sales they had hoped for last year?? We were out there busting our butts to sell popcorn and earn money for our unit. But that's what we were SUPPOSED to be doing!!!! That's the whole reason we DO the Popcorn sale, am I right? And now - some advice please on how to kindly retract my initial offer to cooperate with the D-Popcorn Chair on being assigned subdivisions/gas stations for Take Order and Show & Sell? Should I just not entertain any more discussion/proposals with the subject of popcorn sales territory division or what?

I know our Troop isn't necessarily and completely discounting the possibility of *A* church being our CO. The problem is, we have been chartered by "The Parents" so long, that everyone on the Troop Committee wants this to change. As a result of being chartered by the "The Parents," we haven't had a steady place to a) keep our equipment, and b) to have our meetings. We've had to move our equipment twice, as well as our meeting place - all in the last 7 months or so. We just want some stability - which is why being chartered by the parents just isn't working for the unit anymore, know what I mean? The current church that is allowing us to use their space to meet - also has that building up for sale, and will not allow us to store our equipment there. So it's a pain! They agreed to allow us to meet there, about the same time we approached them to also be our CO and that was SEVEN MONTHS ago! Since then, they have put our request into their church committee meetings, they've talked about being our CO, they keep tabling it and putting it off, pending what I am not sure?? Even our CC and SM aren't totally forthcoming on WHY they're dragging their feet. It's possible there are denominational issues - as the CC and SM are members of the church. But the boys in the Troop are of mixed denomination and half the boys and families do go to their church, but the other half don't? Information at National in regard to chartering is somewhat ambiguous as to the CO's ability to administer youth ministry and/or prostelyze to the youth in the Troop. I think this may be ONE of the issues?? Though I am not totally sure?? According to National "Scouting can be the sleeping giant of outreach as **the church realizes that to have its own Scouting unit means it has ownership and the ability to direct the program** in the best interest of its participants. In other words, the unit is church-owned and church-administered." Also, the CO has the ability to choose its leadership. But how can a church as a CO just implement that with an established unit? We already HAVE leadership.... and our Boys aren't strictly ONE denomination - we are all members of different local churches. I am being careful not to offend anyone on this board, as well as the people of our Troop, and any possible CO by not discussing the exact denominations involved here. But as was already stated by Scouter.com Member "Local1400" - he is Baptist and would never be involved with a Troop that operated under the CO of a Catholic Church - so figure it out for yourselves - we are dealing with a similar (though not the same) issue here. I respect people's beliefs and this adamance may or not be the case here, but clearly SOMETHING is keeping this church from jumping in and agreeing to be our CO. It's just an educated GUESS that this is part of the holdup. And THAT is why I think it would be best for our Troop if we seek a NON-CHURCH affiliated CO, just to avoid ANY possible denominational issues. I don't want to offend or lose boys/Scout families based on who may or may not be the CO. If we go with NO CHURCH - it's got to be a Win-Win! In any case, now that we are getting so close to recharter time, the same church planning committee has decided yet again - to table discussion on chartering our Troop until after January 2007. So we're halfway to nowhere with this church, and it's been 7 months. By January it will be nearly 9 months with our Troop wondering... Nothing against the church, its membership, the members of our Troop who are soliciting the church to be the CO, or anyone else - but as a Troop Committee Member - my concern is the stability of the Troop, and offering the best possible snag-free Program to its Youth. I have NO OTHER motivation here! I just feel like we are barking up the wrong tree, waiting around in the hopes that this church is going to suddenly move in our direction and agree to be our CO. At what point (7-9 months???) do we need to realize it's just NOT going to happen for us with this church? But then we get into the ruralness of our local area - we have NONE of the following organizations locally - Salvation Army American Legion VFW Red Cross Lions Club Moose Lodge Rotary Club Boys and Girls Club Elks Lodge Disabled American Veterans Fraternal Order of Eagles Optimist Club Etc - I could go on and on about what we DON'T have around here LOL, it's a town of less than 2,000 folks! We have at least 4 Baptist churches in the area that I know of (2 are Primitive *not sure what that means actually*, one "Bible" Church, one Catholic church, one Lutheran church and one Methodist church. Other than that, we have a Sonic, a Radio Shack, a Dairy Queen, a Chevy dealer, and some ice houses (gas station/convenience stores), a very small local market, a few other mom & pop stores, small locally-owned restaurants, one Dollar General, one roadhouse/bar - and a partridge in a pear tree TO address some of the questions - scoutldr - Our DE isn't really off the hook, however he's a brand-spankin new DE who just got the DE job - has Scouter experience galore - but new as a DE and new to the area. He inherited basically a nightmare District which is very "poor" (economically) in nature. But it's worse than that, it's also a HUGE District which spans the size of a handful of New England STATES! I know he is doing the very best that he can... I do not even know who our DC is - but I know our UC, and he just stepped into that position about a month ago or so, having only a few years Scouting exp. under his belt. I believe they are hoping since the Troop has better "local contacts" that we'll get with it and find ourselves a CO. Hunt - there is one more Troop in our town (long story - they spun off of our Troop about the same time we were all asked to vacate the first meeting place 7 months ago - I wasn't here with the Troop then but joined at the tail end of all that change so I have no idea why for sure.) and I do not know who charters them. There is also only 1 Pack, and they are chartered by a local Church, though a different church than the one we meet at. As I said, I think it would be better if we step away from a specific denomination or church CO. I sure appreciate being able to bounce all this off you guys. I have always found this site to be a wonderful resource in Scouting. I can get a lot of usually well-educated opinions, from all over the world! Nothing is finer than that. Thank you

There's certainly "nothing on the books" about a resignation, if the situation requires that. Case in point - my own son is the SPL in our Troop. He was nominated and decided to run, won by election and all that jazz. The SM ended up having some personal family problems and was unable to devote the time to work with my son and give him JLT, etc. While this was unfortunate, I do understand it, the husband and I weren't going to jump in and take over as SM, training our own son, but we were at least available to offer advice, should our son need it. Well, realistically our son would rather kiss a snake at the SM's request than ask for OUR help - Ewwww Parent Cooties and all Fast Forward - - - The SM is absolutely available now. My son calls him for questions... and the SM calls my son - but they only communicate the night before or sometimes mere hours before the weekly meeting. Nothing is prepared or planned, the boys are wild and are living at the absolute edge of the planning curve. It's like watching a crazy 8 race on a dirt track, just waiting for that inevitable CRASH!!! lol So I told my son a week or so ago that if he didn't intend to act like an SPL in the full sense of the responsibility that goes along with that position, then he owed to the rest of the boys in his Troop to RESIGN! I told him it appeared that he was too caught up in online video gaming all week long, and that if he was only going to dedicate time to scouting in the weekly meeting and the monthly camping trips, he was doing nothing but selling himself and the entire Troop short. Basically I lit a fire under his rear end and told him to get moving and get with the Program or go jump in a lake and let someone else do the job! I personally see nothing wrong with having that same kind of conversation with any other boy in the Troop, especially your SPL, whoever he is, relative, son, nephew, neighbor - whatever! And if the kid's parents have a problem with you trying to motivate their son to actually be the SPL he agreed to be - then I'd offer them a free ride to the next New Leader Essentials Training, to be followed by Scoutmaster Fundamentals and maybe a sneak preview at a JLT video!! (It's usually the parents who want to tell you how to do things that have never been trained in the first place - sorry for the assumption - bit of humor there ) My own son suddenly started operating a phone tree, went to the next weekly meeting prepared (with a Troop Meeting Plan even - ooooooooh He had called ahead to older boys/PLs and gotten some instruction period set up - stuff like that. So he "got it." Maybe this SPL needs to have it laid out straight for him too - so he can "get it" or "leave it" whichever the case may be. Also - I assume there is an ASPL in the picture? Don't be afraid to utilize him in this situation. If the SPL isn't/can't/won't treat the SPL position with respect, there's no reason not to use the ASPL in the SPL's basic absence. If you can get the ASPL in there doing the right thing - often times the SPL will rethink his current goals and objectives (read: BEHAVIOR) within the Troop. And as far as an all-out SM Veto goes, I would have to say "NO" there's no such thing - but there are other things, like guidance, influence, persuasion..... And that nifty little phrase about how you get more flies with honey than you do with ________ ? Good Luck!

AMEN!!!!! Praise Dan!!! LOL Thank you - IT WORKED! It was a pretty simple thing... and sometimes we just need someone else to point out the obvious Thank you so much Dan, Yours In Scouting