John-in-KC

BACK TO THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!! Not quite... Does anyone else here remember when WeBeLoS meant: WOLF...Bear...Lion...Scout??? I proudly have my Lion rank patch on my Cub Class A uniform. I earned it in 1966-67! At the time it was the top of the Cubbing food chain

In reading through Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, #33088B, revised 1999, I find these words: " ... and recognized as having the skills and education in the subjects for which they are to serve as merit badge counselors, ... " It seems to me that a staff of 10 experienced ADULTS would be challenged to support the twenty-two merit badges in this camps list, LET ALONE a mixed staff of youth, young adults, and mature citizens. I went and looked at my Councils guide. We are a 300 series Council ... each camp of our primary reservation will support 500 Scouts/Scouters per session for six 9 day sessions. Our NATURE LODGE supports: Geology, Oceanography, Mammals, Nature, Reptile & Amphibian Study, Bird Study, Astronomy Our CONSERVATION LODGE supports: Environmental Science, Fish & Wildlife Management, Forestry, Soil & Water Conservation, Weather Each staff is about the size of what Mr ScoutingCamp proposes for his ONE lodge. So, with six times the staff, and almost twice as many campers, and 1/3 again as much time, we think we deliver the promise TO STANDARD on 2/3 as many merit badges. I know some of the professional educators who help our Council advancement committee and camping committee make curriculum decisions for camp. IMO they are making a good call. What am I missing here?

LongHaul and I are in violent agreement!!!! An internet bulletin board is not the place to make decisions. It's a place to get both input and feedback on processes and procedures. It's also a place to borrow good ideas for use elsewhere :) As an operating practice, the SM and CC should regularly get together and discuss how the unit is doing and where it should go in the future. As an equal practice, the CC should provide input and feedback to the COR regularly. Both the SM and CC should bounce ideas of the Unit Commissioner for "have you seen this before? Does it work?" Good, open, caring two-way communication keeps crises from happening.

Great comments all. Do remember, when drafting a policy on allocation of funds, to show it to your Chartered Partner by way of the COR. - Chartered Partner owns the unit, to include all funds. - Chartered Partner's parent organization (national church body for a religious institution as an example) may have funds accountability mandates. - NEVER EVER RISK your Chartered Organizations IRS 501©(3) status if they are a non-profit! Stay inside the limits of their acceptable operations practices.

Bottom lines up front: 1) CC should be talking, now, with the COR and the serving unit commissioner if program execution is off task. The COR and the IH are the agents of change. 2) If the CC assesses unfair and/or undeserved treatment of a Scouts advancement, then the CC needs to talk with the UC, the COR, and the District Advancement Chairman. There are remedies. Above is the short version. The longer version is: 1) Unit Committees do not get a "vote" in hiring/firing anyone. The Committee Chairman nominates people using the adult leader application to be Scouters. The Chartered Organization Representative approves those people at the community level. The Council, through the background check, does due diligence on those people in support of Scouting and the Chartered Partner. If there are performance issues (as opposed to personality issues), the COR, as the representative of the Chartered Organization, is the decisionmaker. The Committee Chair needs ongoing communication with the his/her COR!!! At the same time, disinterested feedback on issues at hand is a must have. That's where the unit commissioner, his/her ADC, and the District Commissioner come in. Even at this hour, they can help diagnose problems and describe remedies for all, both program and support side. 2) If there is a Life Scout who is not being allowed advancement to Eagle, then the Scoutmaster needs to be talking to both his/her Committee Chair AND the District Advancement Chairman. There had best be a very good reason. My District Advancement Chair was training a new Eagle guest at one of our young men's Eagle BOR last week. AN INTERESTING FACT HE TOLD ME: The District Advancement Chair has the authority to intervene in a Scouts advancement process. At its most extreme, he can remove a Scouts' advancement process from unit hands if the Scout is getting the shaft by unit leaders. This is an authority not used lightly! Generally, my advancement chairman will be asking the unit commssioner to look at facts and circumstances in the unit before making such a drastic intervention.

From experience: Buying a kit in a bag COSTS MONEY!!! Buy your own hides for leather projects. Amazing things can be done with a template and a sharp knife. Buy 4x8 plywood (or whatever dimension lumber is needed) for your wood projects. Cut the parts yourself. In our district, the local hospital loaned us access to their facility operations shop! See if a local restaurant will order food on their account for you. Cost of food from the restaurant supply companies is even less than Sam's Club. The more donations you can get, the better. We made First Aid kits for the youth one year: We got plastic 35mm film canisters from the drugstores (instead of them throwing those away as film gets processed), another drugstore donated boxes of bandaids and towelettes, and one of the staff with a xerox machine made the "how to bandage a cut finger instructions that went in the canister. It takes work to stay in budget for Day Camp.

Welcome to the forums. Since you are placing what is essentially a National "Help Wanted" ad, may I wonder if you are underwriting travel costs? What is salary? You're asking for experienced over-21 Scouters here, not new 16 year olds. My council set its camps area heads weeks ago. New hires are getting their contracts as we speak. This is the time for incentives, not a generic ad. YIS

A SM I know had a local embroiderer add info to patches ... such as the word CAMP for our annual Camp Scoutmaster, or the tenure in office for a departing SPL. Is it "regulation"? No. Are we the Armed Forces? Equally, no. There are uniform police who would scream bloody murder about an altered SM patch. I'd rather be concerned the Troop is planning great outings that meet the intent of G2SS and isn't sod surfing... Somedays, things just have to be in perspective.

Let's take equipment separate from uniforms. With few exceptions, Supply Division no longer has equipment made for Scouts... such as backpacks, frames, and sleeping bags. They offer opportunities for the major makers to sell one or two of their wares. If you, or a knowledgable Scouter in your area, knows a fair bit about outdoor gear, you can get better bargains for quality gear outside the Scout system. Uniforms? I have not had the problems you describe. If you search my posts in the Uniforms thread you will find messages where I have gripes, but they are to the fabrics Supply Division chooses, as well as fit and finish of the trousers in particular. I've not encountered construction problems such as you describe. Many units work hard to help their Scouts get a good uniform for less. Many units have an experienced uniform closet. Leaders go out to thrift stores and scrounge uniform articles to help their Scouts. While my son was growing, I malice aforethought bought bigger than he was at the moment, knowing full well he'd grow into the item. At the same time, I've dropped $500 for a tuba for him. It was almost fabricated, rather than built. The guts of the instrument may be as much as 70 years old, while some of the other pieces are rather newer (this from the local instrument repair specialist). Other band parents blanch at the price of quality instruments as their children show their skill. I know HS football parents who rent their kids gear, season by season, for $300 a pop. Let's be blunt: Providing a child quality equipment for the activities he pursues just isn't inexpensive anymore. Just some thoughts. I hope they help put things in perspective.

Part of this depends on the Pack and Troops supply of "experienced uniforms." I know the growth I allowed for my son when I put him in a Cub blue shirt. He made it to bridging in Blue. He shot up in his first two years as a Boy Scout; I had to place him in adult Large for height when he was 14. Leaders have to apply empathy and understanding of family finances to the "which Class A uniform" question for a Webelo. A leader inistent on the de la Renta shirt MUST HAVE a Plan B for those who are in financial straits, especially if the current Blue shirt fits well. My thoughts. Others will disagree, that's ok.

This actually was a timely thread. Last night, I sat two Boards of Review for Star---> Life. A common answer of the "what can we do to change?" question to both young men was "we don't have young Scouts." This led to a discussion of how they could help the recruiting effort, by serving in a Pack as Den Chief, by serving Cub Day Camp as J-Staff, and by inviting their peers to join. Along the way: Middle Schoolers and 9th/10th graders seem to be busier in the schoolhouse today than I was 30-odd years ago. Scoutmasters may have to plan allowances for a Den Chief operating somewhat independently of the Troop; making sure the SPL and the Scribe keep him in the loop. Just because WE GROWNUPS can have multiple "one hours a week" DOES NOT MEAN we can impose that on our youth. Another along the way comment: The "feeder relationship" implies symbiosis: The Troop has to furnish program support (within reasonably coordinated limits) to the Pack. When the Pack is getting support, their leaders should reasonably then encourage due migration to the Troop.

Old Mr Getzloff (Gizmo of Gizmo's Backpacking Store), Reseda/Van Nuys, CA told my Troop about using nylons as part of a shoe/sock system back in 1969. Longhaul has it right, this is a technique that works. Thanks for renewing a proven technique, LH!

One comment to MN_Scout: As I understand the Philmont lottery software, if BSA Troop A of Council B wins a slot for Philmont in year 200x, then the software rejects that units' application for year 200(x+1). The software uses the local number AND the Council number. Again, from my understanding of the old "call-in" day (prior to 2004 season), PSR tried, but could not guarantee, a good cull of units which had gone in year x from the year (x+1) list. My last question: Do you have a fairer way for BSA to allocate a scarce resource?

To me, you have to look at the three aims of the Scouting movement: Character Development Citizenship Training Personal Fitness before you look at the 10 purposes of Cub Scouting. From my own experience, Cub Scouting never was designed to fit in a vacuum and be a be-all/end all program. It starts a process. Properly done, it meets all 10 purposes. Eight of those purposes feed from "Family Understanding." (Parents are the first Akela, if the Den and Pack are BabySitters of America and first Akela, there are deeper problems). Now, as to the tenth purpose, I bring my own experience as a Cub, my days as a Den Chief, and my experience as a Scouter to the table. A maturing young man being entrusted to develop and execute specific events within a Dens program helps HIS growth and development, shifts burden from the Den Leader, and should help the Cubs have fun. Who is this maturing young man? The Den Chief. What is the obligation of the Den Leader to this young man? MENTORSHIP. Notice above I said burden SHIFT, not burden RELEASE, at least not intially. The DL has to invest time with his/her Den Chief, away from the Den meeting. The classic 4 box model of leadership applies. Over time, as the Den Chief learns and grows, the DL will be able to release burden. The Den Chief, should participate fully in the life of his Den. This includes Day Camp, family overnights, and Webelos Camp. Employed properly, he is the best single tool in the box to achieve that 10th purpose of Cubbing. One last point: I was at a B/G last Sunday. I saw a Tiger with 8 belt loops already. While recognition is essential, the advancement program is, in and of itself, a retention tool. Leaders need to look at all the opportunities of Cubbing across the (now) 4 year program, and not spend the advancement resources before the young man has completed Bear. Of course, there is always going from the "belt loop" to the "activity pin," and the difference in levels of effort to achieve those!

Mr CalicoPenn, Every function (save water carrier) you mentioned can be done by a BOONIE HAT ... and guess what: A BOONIE HAT also keeps your ears from a crisping sunburn... which a beret doesn't Here's a boonie hat from a commercial site: http://www.copquest.com/45-2900.jpg and here's one from BSA Supply Corporation: Tiny url first: http://tinyurl.com/krpqe long url second: https://scoutnet.scouting.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=APPAREL&C3=AHATS&C4=&LV=3&item=500FBH DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD...THE BERET IS DEAD...THE BERET IS DEAD

Mr packsaddly, Sir, rest assured I AM NOT SNICKERING when I said that. I did not spend over a quarter century in battle dress, voluntarily surrendering some of my free speech rights, to ever say something like that without a straight face. One of the "gut-check" reasons I counsel Cit in Nation is the kids need to understand the process of citizenship!!!! I agree, it may not go very far ... now. Who knows what will come to public light next? Opinions in the district do shift over time. BTW, I grew up in California: The story of how Nixon defeated Helen Gehagen Douglas is an old story in my family; he was distrusted since four years before I was born!!! FWIW, I was taking AP US History and Government in my 11th and 12th grade years (SY 72-73 and Fall 73 semester). The classroom was a constant lab in the process, thanks to the hearings and the onward slide of the Administration. YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

From what I am told by my friendly neighborhood Official Distributor... BSA Supply Corporation Scout Shops are also area warehouses for Supply Division. They "must ship" product to Distributors before retaining it for themselves. Reason is: Distributors pay for their merchandise at wholesale rates up front. Distributors include "Acme Sales Company" who sell uniform parts, books and accessories (but not rank and MBs) as well as Council owned and operated Scout Shops who sell an inventory they select of BSA merchandise, but especially including rank/MBs etc. Money talks. This is what I was told. Will be interesting to hear other versions of the story.

Sometimes balancing competing personal interests makes for the toughest choices imaginable. You WANT(!!!) to do something, but it's below other things you MUST do, or WANT to and NEED to do. I'm giving you feedback, Eamonn, because it reinforces the same lesson in my own life.

To packsaddle: If I am reading you, you report your belief that the incumbent Administration is committing criminal acts. There is a solution for you: Advocate your Representative introduce a Bill of Impeachment. To all: I see, this morning (2/27/06) on google news, way of Reuters, that the Dubai Ports World Company is willing to accept another full 45 day statutory review of the contract and their operations. IMO, they are doing the right thing to help make this go away.

I would rate my conservatism level as "O'Reilly is comfortable, Hannity and Limbaugh are pedants." I'll say it; I gave him my vote in Y2K and in 2004. Bush DESERVES this particular round of bashing. DON'T SURPRISE YOUR FELLOW PARTY MEMBERS IN CONGRESS!!! Is that really a tough rule of thumb to remember? Bush has DeLay and Frist lined up against him on this issue, in part because they can make political hay of it, in part because they were blindsided. Don't blindside your own party in Congress. Sheesh!

The patches you describe are what BSA calls Temporary patches. You can place one of them on the right pocket of the uniform shirt, or any number of them anywhere on the brag vest.

If no one has welcomed you to the Forums, WELCOME!! Actually, your question is one the Advisor should put to the Crew, either through the officers or to the Crew as a whole. If you can, let them brainstorm without any constraints. If reality (costs) must be a constraint, give them the minimum number of limits, then let them go for it! Sit back as a fly on the wall and watch them make good choices!

Mr Uz2bnowl, Thank you for your many years of service to our Nation! Hillis, I'm just an old Army artilleryman ... we did more riding than walking (I listened to Dad's advice from his service... never walk when you can ride ... but that's another story). I can tell you categorically: Read and heed Mr Uz2bnowl recommendations to you. The words are true, and come from wisdom gained the hard way. Your feet are the last place to skimp money on when going into the backcountry!

Lisa, An outdoor supplier I've used for many years (since my own time in Scouting in the 60s/70s) is Recreational Equipment Incorporated of Seattle WA. They are a cooperative. Invest $10 in a lifetime membership, get an annual dividend on your purchases. I just went to their website: Youth boots run in a price range of $26 - $60 (today is 2/25/06). At the bottom end of the adult scale, boots run from $50 up. The url is www.rei.com Now, that said, I didn't get really good boots until I started training for my first 50 mile backpack trip. A pair of Sears mens' boots stood me pretty well for weekend camps, the annual trip to Scout Camp, and some five mile hikes. You might even check Wally World. Talk to the sporting goods guys about boots ... they often know quite a bit!

OGE: Backpacker: Each of us has to make his own calls. If your read of George W Bushs' actions is that they are outside the law, ask your Congresscritter to initiate a Bill of Impeachment That is truly and wholly within your 1st amendment rights 2 B/G banquets and an FOS presentation this weekend. Outta here!