John-in-KC

When I was advancement coordinator, I rounded up the books by patrol several times a year, to help manage requirements. Now that I'm a tad wiser, I might help make the Troop more boy led by charging the Scribe with responsibility to send updates to me from the PLs...

Ed, Sorta like BobWhites: Taste filling, less great, eh? John

Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness ... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol... Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol... Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness ... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol. Ed, ya jumped the order ...

While what Lisabob and Scoutldr said is perfectly true, IF THERE IS A TRUSTWORTHINESS CHALLENGE ON THE PART OF LEADERS IN A TROOP, then... 1) Someone needs to report a problem to the District Advancement Chairman. 2) Someone needs to report same problem to the Unit Commmissioner serving this unit. 3) Someone needs to report same problem to the Chartered Organization Representative for the Troop. These folks are the Key 3 overwatching operations of the Troop. Of the 3, the COR, if he/she is proactive, has the authority to lay DIRECTIVE IN NATURE tasks upon the Troop, or remove leaders from it. One such task might be to "Follow and do not deviate from the Scouting advancement plan without mine or the Executive Officers' foreknowledge and approval."

Vicki, As Scoutldr said, I'd touch base with the sylabbus. BUT ... since you will be reaching all levels of leaders, there are substantial differences in uniforms from level to level. There are also differences from Council to Council (my Council encourages adults and youth wearing District patches). I'd keep it relatively simple and not play "stump the chump" unless folks show they already have the concept grasped. I'd also bring in a picture of a Venturer in work clothes on a service project and ask: "Is he/she ok?", knowing full well uniform is not a method of Venturing, and selection of clothes is a Crew decision

Douglas, Welcome to the campfire. Pull up a log As Ed and scoutldr both said, given the info you gave us, our answer is "don't expect a waiver." There is a very definite procedure for waivers involving special needs. The procedure is documented in BSA Requirements. The stock number for it is #33215 at your Scout Shop. An older (probably but not certainly current) version of the procedure is online at: http://www.meritbadge.com/adv/t21-alt.htm The most important point is the disability must be permanent, and must be a medical/educational evaluation by competent authority (physician, educator, etc). Hope we are helping you.

We've been working entirely too hard here recently, solving all kinds of Scouting problems and generally making the world safe for youth Me thinks it's time again to play this tune Wood Badge order, pretty please Here's the template: I used to be a CRITTER and a Good 'ol CRITTER too... And now I'm finished CRITTERING... I don't know what to do... I'm growing old and feable and I can CRITTER no more... So I am going to work my ticket if I can... Back to Gilwell... Happy Land... I'm going to work my ticket if I can... So, now comes the inevitable question: IS THERE A BEAVER IN THE HOUSE?

CS-GS leader, Again, there is a fundamental difference in the business models of the Boy Scouts of American and the Girl Scouts of the USA: - In Boy Scouting, local community groups license (charter) the BSA program from the local council. The community groups are supposed to be (operative words) active in the leadership, management, and operations of their BSA units. Above the unit, at the District level (subdivision of a Council) there are additional volunteers (over and above the unit serving Scouters) who advise and support the units. These are the Commissioner's Service (program side) and the District Committee (support side). The only professional in the whole shooting match is the District Executive. Everyone else is doing it "for only an hour a week!" - If I understand GSUSA at all correctly, the Council and the service unit are the direct owners of the units. While they partner with local community organizations, GSUSA has far tighter control and responsibility over an individual Girl Scout Troop than does District/Council over a Pack, Troop or Crew. Hope this explains why we Boy Scouts aren't so worried about the professional in this thread as you have been YIS JOhn

Fred, WOW! Way cool Just sent it to every Scouter in my address book and placed it on the District list-serv. Knowledge IS power ... but only when it's shared. Thanks for sharing this one John

In my Troop/Crew, the Eagles and their families design and coordinate the Eagle COH. If there is a particular reason a younger Scout gets tapped as MC, great. If not, SM and CC should defer as much as possible to wishes of the Eagles!!! My two cents.

Just checked with my Scout office. They collect the $10 registration fee on each and every adult leader app, except for no fee Executive Officers of Chartered Partners. So, let's conduct inventory: Training: FS+YP+NLE Common core+MB Counselor. Application and BG check: yep Registration: Adult leader app, position code 42. Fees: yep. Seems to me they are Scouters.

I think it's time to cut to the chase. Those who want to go over to the new unit should. Those who are willing should volunteer their services in the new unit, get trained, and help out all . As SA again said, everything else is not worth the time and energy of debate. Go to a pack meeting, bring a youth and an adult leader app along YIS

Scoutldr, One of the things I learned in my trip to PTC was that every Scouter, professional and volunteer alike, is responsible for helping to find and sell Chartered Partners! For CNYScouter: One thing to help sell the yacht club is having the prospective members of your Ship discuss community service for the Chartered Partner. Older teens need service hours too (my son's HS has a 100 hour requirement across the 4 years to graduate!!!). At the end of the day, developing the LT relationship with the Chartered Partner is one of the most important tasks the startup CC and Advisor can do. You want this to be a win-win, and the bigger the win-win, the better the fit will be. Let us know how you decide!

What Eamonn said. There will be time enough to formulate concepts for a ticket. Many of mine came together during the interregnum between weekend one and weekend two (of course, we had a patrol meeting virtually every week!). Enjoy the coming time.

Ms GS-CS leader, YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR SON can change packs at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all. As a parent, your first interest has to be the growth and development of your child! As a Scouter, any movement of a unit requires coordination of the committee members with the Chartered Organziation!! The Chartered Partner OWNS the equipment of your unit. Equally, it OWNS the Treasury. In the dissolution of a unit, the CP can either surrender the equipment and funds to the Council, for redistribution elsewhere, or it can hold both equipment and funds in trust for the re-establishment of a unit at some point in the future. The CC needs to be talking with the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner and the COR, NOT the Unit Commissioner. Commissioner's are the friends of a unit, trying to provide advice and assistance. They do not exercise authority and ownership. That is the function of the Chartered Partner. As I understand Girl Scouting and Boy Scouting, this is a fundamental difference. In Boy Scouting, the local community group is the licensee of the program from the Council, and has ownership rights to the unit. You imply the area has a thin enough youth population that only one Pack is truly supportable. If that be the case, then it makes sense for the CC to sit down with both his own COR and the gaining unit COR, as well as the gaining unit CC and perhaps Cubmaster. Mergers take planning and focus on the youth to make happen. Impatience hurts, not helps, the process. My thoughts. John A Chartered Organization Representative

No sugar soft drinks is NOT NECESSARILY a silly rule. I've seen young folk with bee stings on their lips because the little critter had slid into a sugar heaven, then had only one way out! Again, no sugar soft dringks is not necessarily a silly rule. Sugar soft drinks take lots more body work (kidneys, etc) to process than does good old di-hydrogen oxide (water). On a summer day, water hydrates you, sugar soft drinks do not! No candy can come from multiple reasons, but no soft candy (chocolate bars and such) melt in the summers' heat, unless we're talking Hershey's Tropical Chocolate (do they even still make it?). Again, bees can come calling, as can all manner of other critters. Teaching youth about "smellables" now helps for the day when they go on a high adventure anywhere. The no camp chairs or stools does get a little silly at times, but so does the "It's MINE!" I've seen too many times... Just my thoughts. Others will have different ones.

Given CalicoPenn's and acco40s comments (thank you both!! )... If a SM and CC are willing next year to take on an otherwise eligible 18-20 year old young man as an ASM, who otherwise meets Order membership guidelines, AND ARE NOT WILLING TO CERTIFY HIM FOR ELECTION TO CANDIDACY, something is very, very wrong in that units' leader selection process. As a COR, I would be discussing things with the SM, the CC, and the IH!!!! YIS/ICS/F&W (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

VinceC, I had to go back and make sure which chartered org thread I was replying to There are a couple of these active at the moment. Look, while it isn't the best course of action, it's possible to bypass the secretary of the church. Worship there some Sunday. Get the name of the Pastor and the church President. Call them directly. Explain who you are and what you want to do. Visit with them, and get going on building relationships!!! Remember: You cannot just jump COs. The Chartered Partner is the legal licensee of the Boy Scouting program, and owns the unit. To do it right, they have to release the charter to another community organization. Your DE, UC, and District membership and/or relationships chair can give you more details there. YIS

I'm not at home, so I don't have BSA requiremets at hand. EVERY COUNCIL LEVEL APP I just googled has this, or a very similar phrase on it: "Be registered with the Boy Scouts of America as a merit badge counselor (position code 42)" Looking online at an older copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, #33088B, (1999 edition), here is a quote: "Persons serving as merit badge counselors must be registered as a merit badge counselor with the Boy Scouts of America." Remembering my Venturing leader specific training, one of the DIFFERENCES between a MB Counselor and a Venturing Consultant is the Consultant indeed need not be a registered Scouter. YIS

I'd recommend your unit OATR have a long talk with the Chapter Chief, Chapter Advisor, or Lodge Vice Chief for membership (depending on how your lodge structures itself). While the Lodge itself offers youth membership to age 21, I do not know if a "transitional Scouter" (18-20 year old young man) has to go through election, or if he enters under adult nomination procedures. BTW, he, as well as every adult Candidate, will go through the identical Ordeal as the youth members Knowing the depth and breadth of experience on this board, someone may well chime in with the answer, properly documented for you!!!

Having been a CC, and now being a COR, here is my take: - Quartermaster advisor: Young men need to learn how to keep fabric (tentage) and cast iron (dutch ovens) in top flight condition. The youth quartermasters can do a lot of the work, but they need ongoing guidance. - Treasurer: Thousands of dollars pass through a units fund, year to year. Someone who will keep excellent records is not only a Godsend, but absolutely essential to the unit. - Advancement coordinator: He or she who keeps Troopmaster has the Scouting lives of young men in their hands!!! Frankly, I trust the source records of my units far more than I trust the registrar shop at Council. In an ideal world, this is also the person who helps the SM coordinate SM conferences before advancement, and gets BORs together. - CC him or herself. - Anyone who wishes to be a MB counselor inside the unit, since MB counselors must be Scouters. To me, a big advantage of engaging a parent is avoiding the "baby sitters of America" syndrome. If the parents have some degree of ownership over program support, they have less to comment on ... they're part of the solution

MBscoutmom, To your last: This is where your COR and UC can come into play no matter what. Packs often need a steady flow of leaders ... people who will give of themselves to aid all the young men. If the pipeline falters in adults, sooner or later it will also in youth. Use them to give the talks about the many things Pack leaders do to support all the boys. If your unit has a challenge getting leaders, one way to recruit is to ask for assistance in small steps: Can someone help set up the pack meeting site for meetings every month with the CM and ACMs? Can someone be responsible for refreshments after a Pack meeting for the youth? Once the adults start seeing the smiles and hearing the thank-yous of those young men, sooner or later they will come around when you ask them for the next step up...

eweiss, Welcome to the campfire. Like so many others, I see the friendship you offer your Scoutmaster in helping mourn his daughter. If you can, find a copy of Footsteps of the Founder, a work of quotes by Baden-Powell. There are many excellent quotes here, you will certainly find one which applies to her. Several are specific to the feminine side of the Movement Lady Olave founded, the Girl Guides. If you PM me off list with a couple of topics you'd want to see that would apply to her, I'll send you quotes. May God be with you through all this.

Several things: 1) Shake the trees, through local Scout Troops, for bilingual Boy Scouts to serve as Den Chiefs! 2) Divide up the territory, but have your CM and ACMs (particularly if there is no Pack Trainer) visit the den meetings. Find out if a quality program is in place out there. At the same time, have them (and you) explain that the committee serves to support the line den leaders, and it's a guaranteed time where they will get the Treasurer and the Advancement Coordinators' attention. 3) Have a talk with your advancement coordinator and Treasurer. Is the info getting in? Is the money getting in? If not, there are challenges of the first magnitude. If they are, then relook your own position on how firm you need to be about DLs "being at the meeting." 4) As a last resort, look for new DL/ADLs, and replace these folk come recharter time. DEFINITELY KEEP YOUR COR and UC in the loop if you have to consider that sort of extreme measure! YIS

gwd, From my experience last fall, there is an "optimum" load: 8 patrols of six students per (everyone gets to be PL once). The Council where I attended ran their first 8 patrol operation, and ran 7 patrols of 7 and one of 6. They are still using the 64 student load model. Sometimes, you may get pressure because a Scouting friend is on staff. One of the things I've noticed is Patrol Guides seem to have to get out there and help find candidates. Whenever you take it, you'll enjoy it John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05 Working my ticket...