John-in-KC

Another day in the neighborhood

Are they current on Scoutmaster Specific and Outdoor Leadership for Scouters? Is their BSA Swim Test current? If they're going to be looking at lifeguarding skills, is their BSA Lifeguard in order? Are they absolutely current on every T-2-1 advancement task? Or even better, LET THE SPL DECIDE (under your mentorship) WHAT YOUTH WILL SIGN OFF ON T-2-1 ADVANCEMENT. ASM's can overwatch for quality control.

My youth troop had the Snowflake, the Ice Cube, and the Raindrop. They were to be sewn onto our neckerchief. Snowflake: For a Southern Californian, this was difficult to get. You had to camp out whilst God made it snow. Ice Cub: Camping below 32F Raindrop: Camping in a rainstorm. Given the California climate, none of these were easy to get.

Oh, why are we here?

Narraticong and I are both members of Missouri parishes. Rest assured, I'd see Matthew 18 so fast it would make my head swim if I told Pastor I'd joined a Masonic Lodge.

Thanks for the online 2008. That'll go in my bookmarks Reading them, the National policy is pretty clear: Any registered Counselor may counsel any youth member. Period. The comment on the National website implies they want the youth member to go through the same procedures as any other Scout when Mom/Dad counsel the badge. EVEN SO, my own experience deems it wise for a parent not to counsel their own child. The natural exception is where the Counselor is the only one in a fairly wide area. A SM may choose. to let a parent counsel their own child. In this case, imo the parent must bend over backwards to ensure his child has at least as much challenge as any other Scout.

The Councils I've seen keep MB patches until inventory runs out. Council Scout Shops also do not stock 10,000 of each item the way Supply Corporation shops do...

Dean, My father, a veteran of Corregidor, Ordealed with me the same weekend. He was off in an adult area that night.

I have my OA handbook from my Ordeal. 1965 edition, 1969 edition. Want to know something? If there was hazing back then, surprise! IT WAS WRONG THEN, TOO The closest thing I remember to hazing was being led out by an Arrowman after the pre-Ordeal to my sleeping site. I was told to keep my eyes shut. OTOH, he had his arm in mine, walked slowly and guided me across a rockfield. When he stopped me he said "bed down here, do not open your eyes, we will wake you in the morning." Fortunately, I'd already been on a LT backback once, and knew where stuff was in my pack. The next morning, I was no more than 100 yards from the camp kitchen PING Trevorum: Did Walika do your Ordeal at Jubilee as well?

I am over 1000 miles from my copy of ACP&P and Requirements. It's an eldercare thing. I've just read the links Ms Jo posted, and she's right, as far as that goes. Can someone please walk the dog as regards what the latest ACP&P says? Those words do not read like I thought they did a few weeks ago.

Too bad, nrp, I wore it on my belt at times when I was a youth member (1970s) and I do so today. Narraticong isn't the only one who thinks that way.

Gwd, It's been worse, far, far worse. Trust me. I went through my Ordeal back in 1970. I was the only Scout from my Troop who went to the Brotherhood. Period. These days there is a deliberate emphasis on going to Brotherhood, part of it is the ethics taught in the two ceremonies. I was 13 not quite 13 when I had my Ordeal. In my little world, 2 years in Scouting is the bare minimum. Of course, the other side of my little world is I've not been eligible to vote for 31+years.

One comment vis a vis the laundry list of programs: It helped that Goodman was National Program Director from 1931 to 1951, including the point where the program was incorporated into the BSA main program and the National Lodge was dissolved. Just a thought for those of us who are from places where other honor organizations still function

Gunny, You're in a direct contact position; that's your call. I'm not direct contact in a Boy Scout unit anymore. Where I am direct contact is a Venuring Crew, and that's the same Honors. This change actually came through both the FY08 and FY09 National Defense Authorization Acts. The FY08 Act was HR 1585, and is PL 110-181: SEC. 594. CONDUCT BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND VETERANS OUT OF UNIFORM DURING HOISTING, LOWERING, OR PASSING OF UNITED STATES FLAG. Section 9 of title 4, United States Code, is amended by striking all persons present and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.. Now for the FY09 Act, found as S 3001 and PL 110-417 SEC. 1081. MILITARY SALUTE FOR THE FLAG DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES NOT IN UNIFORM AND BY VETERANS. Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) through © and inserting the following new subparagraphs: (A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and © all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and. (Note: That last AND refers to the next section of the subtitle). So there is the language.

shortridge, You've not heard some of the Sunday Morning worship services at Ordeal Weekends that I've heard. That's all I'll say.

Ahh, but the FY2009 National Defense Authorization Act gives explicit authority for former members of the Armed Forces, Reservists, Retirees, and Active Duty Soldiers, Sailors, Airmane and Marines to salute in mufti. You will never see me give the Boy Scout salute again. Five fingers, thank you very much I'll post exact details tomorrow.

Of course they're similar to Masonic! Go look at E Urner Goodman's biography. Go look at Carroll Edson's biography. Both were 33d Degree Masons. They had to have some model for their initial ceremonies. I've seen some re-enactments of early Ordeals. Yes, they sound more like Masonic than does the modern Ordeal or Brotherhood. OK. So what? Who cares? This is Scouting, not Masonic, not DeMolay, and not Rainbow. It's our job, as Scouters, to ensure we're not pushing any single faith path. That is the family's duty and responsibility. Next, why are the program materials open to inspection by any concerned teacher, spiritual leader or even parent? Because of the faith matters, in part! I can state reasonably certainly that if the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod assessed the Order as a Masonic spinoff, parishes Nationwide would receive instructions from St Louis to drop charters immediately. Being a member of a Masonic organization as an LCMS member can cause Matt 18 church discipline, up to excommunication to kick in. I'm rather hard over on this. At one point, EagleSon's mother, my former bride, was putting heat on my son as well as on men around him that OA (and Mic-o-Say in my neck of the woods) were Masonic in nature. Further, I was leading him on a path of works righteousness to salvation. Thankfully, several men in my parish are Eagle Scouts and Arrowmen, that got shut down in short order. Let's keep remembering something: OA promotes the CHARACTER AIM through its program use of the Ideals, Personal Growth, and Outdoors Methods. It's our job as Arrowmen Scouters to make sure youth members do not confuse the Order with a religious practice.

What's wrong with going to the beach? What's wrong with a campout at the beach? C'mon, use a little imagination I grew up in Southern California, and an opportunity to go play at the shore was always welcome. You have to be a bit careful in planning safe swim, BSA isn't fond of the strand these days, but that's about it. Ditto the science museum. Go to the place in advance. See what sorts of discovery opportunities there are. Now, there are some science museums that are garbage. There are others which are fantastic. Leverage the good. What's wrong with a Troop/family fun trip to Six Flags? Just tell the PLC it's going to be a SECOND activity that month. I see two good decisions by your PLC and one that can be turned to a win-win.

Let me make sure the message I sent was the one received: - At least four Merit Badges have developmental skills in T-2-1. Don't issue the kids blue cards now. Let Ages and Stages naturally happen, so that when they're First Class, they are naturally ready to earn these MB. Of course, with Swimming MB, the odds are a Tenderfoot today will earn that in due course by the end of his second summer camping season. Keep remembering: Advancement is but 1 of the 8 methods of the Scouting program. It is no more and no less important than Patrols, Adult Association, and uniform.

Let me keep this simple: - When Tenderfeet are working on Swimming as part of T-2-1, they are working towards requirements of Swimming Merit Badge. In fact, proficiency at 2d Class and 1st Class swimming is a mandatory pre-requisite for Swimming MB, to wit: Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete Second Class rank requirements 7a through 7c and First Class rank requirements 9a through 9c. Second Class rank requirements 7a through 7c: (7a) Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe swim. (7b) Demonstrate your ability to jump feetfirst into water over your head in depth, level off and swim 25 feet on the surface, stop, turn sharply, resume swimming, then return to your starting place. (7c) Demonstrate water rescue methods by reaching with your arm or leg, by reaching with a suitable object, and by throwing lines and objects. Explain why swimming rescues should not be attempted when a reaching or throwing rescue is possible, and explain why and how a rescue swimmer should avoid contact with the victim. First Class rank requirements 9a through 9c: (9a) Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe trip afloat. (9b) Before doing the following requirement, successfully complete the BSA swimmer test: Jump feetfirst into water over your head in depth, swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating. (9c) With a helper and a practice victim, show a line rescue both as tender and as rescuer. The practice victim should be approximately 30 feet from shore in deep water. So is T-2-1 proficiency in First Aid a requirement of 1st Aid MB: 1. Satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first-aid requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks. The material in Camping MB is due course of a Scouts' advancement. He should start his camping log immediately. A troop which camps Fri Night/Sat Night 10 months a year, including 1 LT camp, gets requirement 9a knocked out in short order. Let him enjoy the trail, and the learning come by discovery

shortridge, You were paid $80 a week 14 years ago? All but one of our operations starts off 16 year olds in first year employment at $35 a week... Most college student Scouters serving Camp Staffs are, in my experience, 3d or 4th year folk who already have their inventory of summer uniforms.

Rick, OK... another spin on things. There should still be sufficient depth and breadth of folks to get solid merit badge opportunities going. Two things you CAN do: - Train and support your Scoutmasters in their role as gatekeepers. - Go out and visit MB events or mills in your District (even within the Council). Offer friendly, albeit honest feedback to the sponsors, and give feedback on what you see to Scoutmasters.

Nike, The issue isn't Dad, it's Cubbie, for whom mystery, as a program device, should be maintained.

CP, I know that lodge C-teams, being made up of young Thespians, do gather together and see who can enrich the basic ceremony the best. Certainly there's all manner of this kind of competition at NOAC. I'm not surprised there's Regional and sectional events. I do think whoever the Professional or Volunteer Adviser to the event was, should have had a polite, but somewhat strong word with Cubbie's Dad.

Pick your battles wisely . As a SM, you have some small degree of influence over how the PLC elects to use the time of Troop meetings. Choose to use that time wisely! There's nothing wrong with the PLC saying "In October, we want to do a 50 mile bike ride together with a weekend campout", which gets the long ride in for Cycling. There's also, imo, nothing wrong with a spring or summer troop meeting being one of the training rides against the 50 miler. Young people in the outdoors reinforces our Fitness Aim. With that said, you as SM, mentoring the PLC, help regulate how much of that a Troop does or does not do. As far as the Committeewoman who wants to disrupt your meeting plans by teaching MB School? A quiet, friendly cup of coffee with your CC is in order. Get on the same sheet of music, and then quietly, calmly, without fuss or furor, put a practice in place which says MBs are pre-pre-opening time, if at all... I'd not fight the war over camp... just yet. I would fight the war over Mills... after you've assessed the quality of each Mill. Again, quietly talk with the event organizer about your impressions and your decision as a program officer.