JoeBob

I like 441's approach. What can Summer Camp offer that will fill a boy's dreams until next year? Take an HA area and create 3 or 4 levels for boys to move up through. Examples: Shooting; 1- .22 rifle, 2- .223 AR 15, 3- Pistol, 4- High power scoped hunting rifle. Primitive Weapons: 1- Slingshot, 2- Recurve Bow, 3- Spear, knife and tomahawk, 4- Blackpowder rifle and pistol, 5- Trebuchet Climbing: 1- Rappelling, 2- Top-roping, 3- Leading, 4 Teaching. Build it based on "What would this boy like to do next to logically build on his adventure?" Require successful completion of the lower levels in order to participate in the higher. It may take a boy more than one summer to achieve those goals, but that keeps him wanting to come back, and talking it up to his mates!

KDD: Was this guy really an Eagle? Or was he one of those "Navy Seal, Spec OPs, ex-Ranger guys with three Purple Hearts and two Silver Stars" with no paper trail because the government erased it to protect the innocent?

NRA Training for RSO and/or Instructor takes 2 days for competent people. (RSO and Instructor Combo training is 3 days.) National Jamboree could easily have gotten NRA instructors to train on site to fill any open slots. What Jambo couldn't do was convince over 21 year old practical folks that they should pay $850 for the privilege of working for free. Wouldbadge Grads? Anyone?

"So yes Joe Bob your seeing only black & white was very narrow minded and racist.." Excuse me, All. I've been called a racist, so I must be guilty of being a racist. And being a foul racist, I'm not allowed to have a valid opinion. I apologize for imposing my RACIST self on your most thoughtful and truth-seeking forum.

ghjim: I like the way that you casually pronounce this point of view as being 'nonsense'. You sound so certain, that I'm sure you have video tape to share with us??? I strongly encourage you all to listen to the tape of the none-emergency operator talking to Zimmerman. This 4:12 is the tape that the prosecution tried to use as basis for claiming that Zimmerman was ORDERED to stop following Martin. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=zimmerman+following+tape&view=detail&mid=FDD1CF3C249BC1AD216FFDD1CF3C249BC1AD216F&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR

"I would expect a response like that from joebob. again racial lines." Racial lines? You must work for the media if you read anything racial into what I wrote...

Trayvon Martin is dead because he chose to confront a neighborhood watch captain who was keeping an eye on him until police arrived to question his suspicious behavior. Martin had 4 minutes to walk 80 yards to get to his father's girlfriend's home. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CDk6SYyZum8/T3JNkQ84MeI/AAAAAAAAAxg/Hg9HwbXJ4Mo/s1600/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg He chose to use those 4 minutes (the time between his phone being dropped, connection lost, and the time the shot was recorded on the 911 tape) to ambush the person following him. A timid child in an unfamiliar neighborhood in the dark would choose to go home. If confronted, a normal teenager would politely explain who he was and where he was going. A belligerent teenager seeking to boost his 'street cred' (who had bragged about winning a fight the week before) would instigate a fight against a 4 inch shorter unsuspecting victim. George Zimmerman didn't get away with anything. His life is ruined. He will always be hunted by Black activists. The two years it's taken to get to a just verdict have been hell on Zimmerman. All because Zimmerman didn't want to die. Anybody else on the board ever stitch up a scalp would? The scalp is tough. It's hard to push a needle through the human scalp. Trayvon was pounding George's head on the concrete to produce those wounds. When the police that George had called didn't arrive in time, and the neighbors who heard him yelling chose not to help, George chose to use his gun to keep himself alive. Under the same circumstances, every one of us would have acted the same.

I believe you meant the Greater ALABAMA Council. I know, Atlanta has 3 'a's and an 'l' in the same name. We're both from the South. But the 'Greater Alabama Council' and the 'Atlanta Area Council' are not the same.

And can't do any of the activities. No back packs. So, for $35 you get to wander around and look and pay BSA prices for food and water... Anybody?

Elitist much? "Not a gathering of boys trying to dress up like scouts." I guess the rest of us aren't really scouts. Does that mean we can get a refund on our 'Not Really' dues? jr, you sound like you're the type of Scouter who is disappointed that you can only officially wear nine knots. And you have reminded me of the attitude that convinced me to NEVER recommend a Scout go to a national event. If HA ever takes the same tact, we'll be looking for a different annual outing. I just can't believe you actually said it....

SSS, I appreciate the spirit of your response. Thank you. As I was eagerly reading your post, half of my mind was searching for a reason that scored with me. The other half was mentally shooting down the ideas and categorizing them. Categories of rejection: 1- Networking and idea swapping more efficiently handled at RT. (But I do need to go to RT more often.) 2- Better done with my boys in our troop. 3- Silly. 4- Ephemeral spiritual BS that I'd have a hard time holding my tongue through. I'm pretty plain spoken, and I should probably stay away from WouldBadge or risk dampening the experience for the other participants. (I wonder if there has ever been a WouldBadge patrol that rebelled in mass?) I keep worrying at the WouldBadge posts on this forum because I know that there is a need for better woodmanship training in BSA. There have got to be some simple concepts that the boys can implement to better their leadership skills. And some better ways to communicate those skills to young men. But I haven't found it. Yet. I am starting to think that maybe I should give up on a big nationally developed plan and try to put together a small effort at the district level. We have some excellent SMs in our district who have strengths in various aspects of scouting. Is there an existing format for local skills training that others have used? Any suggestions on how I might get this concept past the 'good old beaded boys'?

KDD, I believe most Summer Camp MB classes do have size limits. I know that our camps have early registration that we all rush to sign up for classes that our boys want before the classes fill up. Some subjects have physical limitations, target positions, rifles, bows, canoes; whereas some subjects can always add a few more in the back of the classroom (Environmental Science, Cit in the Whatever) Having 20 in 'swimming' doesn't seem exorbitant. Maybe some of the Aquatics Staffers on the board can tell you what the minimum ratio is for the waterfront. I do feel for a camp wanting to get as many paying clients as possible into a class. And I know that some troops/boys routinely skip classes anyway to hang out, so overbooking a class is understandable.

I'm with you about paperwork. I've submitted 4 applications over 2 years to get legit as an MBC. My pack and troop had good folks on the committee that made it their main focus to deal with the paperwork. They didn't do a lot of front line contact with the boys, but they did an excellent job keeping the bureaucrats off the rear end of the woodsmen. If I had to deal with boys and council idiots, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't still be here. Professional's attitudes: I've seen good and bad. The ones who treat you like a valued resource get unwavering support. I just avoid the ones who treat me like help, and warn away anyone I can. Mid-level staff at camp this year were 90% anal-orifices. I wonder if they are working a staff job at camp because they want to share their Scouting values, or if they view their time at camp as a last resort because they couldn't get a real job...

Since y'all were talking 'Nutters' this is only slightly off topic: Has your family talked about their 'Riot Plan' for when Zimmerman is acquitted? Mrs. JoeBob works at a Country Club 1/4 mile from a heavily Black politically active area. She scoffs, but I'm trying to think ahead;. Be Prepared...

perdidoshas: "JoeBob, Your view is very selfish and short-sighted, IMHO" One of the best tidbits that I ever got from BSA 'Training' as a cub leader was to 'recruit and train your own replacement'. If I can't do that in six years, then I probably shouldn't be SM in the first place. I have to grin when I read BasementDweller on another topic, "Encouraging Volunteers", when he says: "The final problem.....How does one exit the BSA???? So do you just quit and hope someone steps in.....Or do you keep working till your replaced....." What's our motto? Oh yeah, 'Be Prepared!' How do you keep the boys walking through to the end of that ten mile hike? You tell them that there is an end. The same approach works pretty well when you're trying to get an adult male to invest some of his precious free time into something that involves NO football, NO babes, NO automatic weapons and NO beer. (And is guaranteed to piss off the wife.) You tell a recruit: "There is an end to this commitment. If you like where BSA national (or district or council) is at the end of your time, you can stay. But any time that you can give while your son is involved will be greatly appreciated." perdichiolicious (sorry - weird name) I've already given six years as a den leader and CM, and I plan to give six more until JoeyBobby ages out, if he stays active. Yet you call my planned 13 year gift to Scouting 'selfish and short-sighted'. Why is that? Is 13 years not generous? Is planning ahead not being far-sighted? Some of the folks on this forum talk about Scouting as if it was your religion. That attitude worries me, and it clouds your vision. As long as Irving is served by a cadre of slavish volunteers who are addicted to their uniforms.... What are they feeding y'all at WouldBadge? ****** STOP! Insensitive rant follows. I should have quit. ****** Oh yeah, "The Game of Life". You work for BSA for free so that the pros in Irving can keep their pensions fully funded! I'll be 65 when my boy ages out, and I'll be doing the troop a favor to get out of the dang way! If you have an objection to that, I don't care! "Short-sighted and selfish" - Apply oral vacuum to my hairy hiney! And thanks for further encouraging this volunteer. and allowing me to vent.

What the frakkin' frik are you talking about? What you "quote" me as saying cannot be found anyway in what I had posted. That makes you a gorm-darned liar! Would you please attempt to clarify just what the frak you might be talking about? Hey Packsaddle, Got any good pie?

Khalelia: Seriously? "Don't step on that dwarf! Hand me the pliers..."

DW!: "BSA needs to ... imposing more specific religious definitions." For example? (Can you keep it to less that 50 words, so that it'll get read?)

We did escape camp scrutiny this year with medical forms that were not in the mandated bi-lingual format. I kept waiting to for the challenge so that I could counter, "Your medical staff doesn't speak English?" Maybe next year...

BD: I'm not evaporating when my son 'Eagles out'. I'm disappearing when he ages out or quits. He's 12 now, so I'm probably around for 6 more years. I'll be 65, retirement time. I have no desire to hang around as a creepy man-scout. DW1: DO you think that boys running around in the woods with only themselves as leaders give a rats hiney about a charter? Testosterone blindness can be a fun thing! God can help, but I bet that your definition of God isn't the same as 90% of other religious scouters. So why do we need to get more specific?

I'd find the ancient customs of the British Military interesting... But only if you can tie a Turk's Head knot in less than 5 minutes while we watch!

Me too! I need some usable skits/role-plays/games that communicate simple leadership concepts that boys can learn and apply. Here's a link to JLT that I'm trying to distill: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf

BasementDweller, as one of the forum members who has learned to put up with your irascible nature in exchange for the good input that you sometimes provide, may I make a request? Please treat people on the forum, especially tender new folks who come here in search of help, as politely as you would treat a new adult in your troop who just wants to help. In the case of Georgia Mom you may have done some real harm to Scouting with your abrasive responses. Most of us think that the Ga PTA will probably not use this as a tool to drop charters, but if they do; I'm afraid that the responsibility will be as much yours as hers. Instead of politely coaching her (Like mentoring a new SPL) to redirect her question to a more informed tax adviser using the correct parameters, you sided with the council and the DE (unfamiliar ground for you) and sent her running with her tail afire between her legs. And when she attempted to disengage by deleting her posts, you shot gasoline at her by re-posting her comments so that you could gloat some more. Do you you think you improved her opinion of Scouting? I hope that you didn't motivate her to stir up the state PTA even more... For someone who always blasts others for their lack of 'selfless service', you sure blow a self-righteous horn. JoeSpongeBob a 'Self Absorbed Southerner'

Where is my danged Cross?

It's the old 'Lead by Example' thingie: 1- Don't know your audience. 2- Don't respect their time. Your parade is more important. 3- Feed them pablum that they won't understand and that doesn't apply to them.