Stosh

I wonder how many soldiers in the US army feel they were a failure because they didn't reach the rank of general?

Yeah, but one could be the first and get 5 minutes of fame on national news.

4 hours ago, EmberMike said:

Do a Google Image search for "scout uniform display" or something similar and you'll find tons of ideas for displaying an old uniform and badges. 

Just my 2¢, if you want to display the whole shirt, you need a pretty big frame for that. And depending on how much space you have in your home/office/room where you want to display it, these frames can end up taking up some serious wall space. Especially if you find any other memorabilia that you want to add to it. I've seen frames that include everything, Cub and BS uniforms, books, even pinewood derby cars. In my opinion, it's a bit much. And I think a lot of times those giant frames are gifted to young adults by their parents who dig all of that stuff out of the closet while Jr. is away at college. Except how many 20-somethings want a 4-foot by 4-foot by 4" deep frame of all of that stuff. 

Before you decide what to do with your uniform, maybe just consider where it will end up after it is framed or preserved, and choose options that best fit your desired wall space and display area. 

Maybe a glass trophy case is in order here to handle all the bling collected.  A small one would only displace a sofa in the living room.

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Again this is where we part ways.

Firstly, I've never met a Venturer - at least one who was never a Boy Scout - who would want to work toward Eagle. The lion share don't want to work toward any recognition - a big problem with the program. The ones who do want to be recognized, want to be recognized for earning their award (be it Silver or Summit)  that already has an Eagle on the device. IMHO, NESA needs to either broaden its scope or go away. We have created an class of boys who are actually deluded into thinking that their rank is better than Venturing and Sea Scout awards -- (pardon the report from boots on the ground).

I would not ask anyone to join a troop merely for rank advancement. I certainly would not give any venturer of mine up to a troop so they can earn an award attained by 7% of Boy Scouts instead of an award attained by mere fractions of a percent of Venturers. And I certainly would not approve the application of any Venturing female who things that by signing on this year she may count it as tenure in a troop next year!

We are not talking about the general populace here, we are talking about the rare exceptions that are sure to come along looking for special considerations.

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Simple answer: over the years BSA has crafted its advancement requirements so that much of their completion is contingent on homage to the BSA. (E.g., Boy Scout camping nights.) So, no, transferring "credit" would be an exersize in futility.

More complex answer (via rhetorical question): why  would any Gold Award recipient want Eagle?

Also, the Gold Award project may be for its own organization. (E.g., one of my Venturers organized and directed a GS camporee.)

So the college resume has both Eagle and Gold listed on it.... that's why.

Dump NYLT and go back to GBB Patrol Method training.

Take care of your boys IS servant leadership.   It's a phrase ID of Robert Greenleaf adopted in the late 1970's long after the Golden Age of scouting.  It does the same things as countering the managerial directive style of being the boss in charge.

Ya, but you're standing on "hallowed" ground.

Keep it in mind one will lose this scouter and he will never be able to work with kids for the rest of his life.  I surely hope he's not a school teacher.  It will cost him his ability to earn a living.

I think with the bunch here, we'd have to take applications for that position, I don't know if I could pick just one.  @HelpfulTracks, are you applying?

That works for me, great idea @Eagle94-A1

I think if it was me, I'd put a note in the Virtual Campfire letting everyone there know I was starting a separate thread because the conversation got interesting and would be good to share outside of I&P.

I slept on this issue and @eagle90 beat me to it.  I would be very careful with this in that it will make this person's life hell.  Yes, I've done the 1 big room thingy and the boys & men/girls & women, two room thingy as well.  I would talk to the fella, make him do YPT over, discuss options in the future and then forget about it.  

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

The problem is it makes SEARCH a bear down the road.  If Topic A morphs into Topic Q, Q responses are harder to find.

The search should bring up both the regular thread and the Virtual Campfire starter idea.  If no regular thread is started and the searcher is interested more than the Virtual Campfire discussed, he/she can start a thread then.

I think the "regulars" here might not find the Virtual Campfire to their liking, but I also hope some of the new/old lurkers out there might pop in for some quick answers to something that is bugging them at the moment.  Jump in, ask a question, and then get a quick answer without having a big deal made out of it.

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Thread hijacking is not good internet decorum.  IT IS SIMILAR TO NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME.  It is a consistent and common rule across nearly all forums.  I know I violate it from time to time and have no problem when called out.  It is simple enough to create a new topic.  

And that option is still there for those who wish to use it.  I think it's cleaner an easier to follow, but as one knows, getting off-topic is always a problem.  If there is something that is mentioned that would be of concern to all, there's nothing that says one can't jump the conversation into a category and discuss it in greater detail.

Many times I like some of the hijacking comments because they often come from "outside the box" and deserve another thread of their own.  The Virtual Campfire provides and encourages that kind of exploration into new ideas.  If it gets some traction, then yes, make a topic thread on it.

And yes thread hijacking is not good internet decorum, the Virtual Campfire cannot be hijacked because it has no thread to hijack.

As an alternative, there should be some place on the forum to just "hang out" and talk about whatever might be of interest to others that day.  If one wishes to have a topic they wish the members to stay with, they have that option of just posting in that category on the forum.  

I started this thread to just allow the off-hand comments to go unchecked to see where they lead.  This also offers the opportunity to see if there are other categories of interest that aren't listed in the regular threads.

Like: last night we hosted one new Webelos boy in our troop.  He had a great time making rope and then learning new knots with it.  The PL was being punished because his grades were dropping in school and couldn't attend.  The other boys picked up the slack and did a nice job while my ASM and I visited with the parent.  So, how many potential threads could be had with that.  Recruiting, scouts being punished by keeping them out of the program, doing crafty scoutwork, rope making, knot tying, whipping and fusing, other boys picking up the slack and leading the program for the evening, teaching skills development for older scouts.  The boys made the potential new member a 2 color para-cord knot combo to practice his knots, and they finished out the evening playing the game Duck Wars, of which the Webelos, being the smallest won every time.

I dunno, I just think it's a good place to just jaw-jack about whatever is on your mind.

Yes, it is still very important to start one's own topic when it is appropriate to do so.

If the mods want to move this to a different category, they may do so while maintaining the off-thread possibilities.  I know there are some on the forum that avoid the I&P section for good reasons, but It is a bit less moderated than the rest.  I like the place where it is because as long as everyone stays on or off topic and maintains a scout-like attitude, it has the potential of finding new areas that if some interest is shown can be made into a regular thread in the appropriate category.

The other glaring omission is the PL handbook in the opening chapter alludes to servant leadership and yet spends it's time describing managerial directives and organization.  That one always bothered me as well.  It's no wonder there's so much confusion in how to operate a troop.

So this whole issue begs the question:  If a GS/USA Gold Awardee were to join BSA4G, would see qualify for the eagle?

18 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

HT,

A local SM was "Scoutmaster of the Year" for 2011.  "His" troop led the Council in FOS and popcorn sales.  Six Eagles given (slightly above average for a year in this unit).  Gold Journey to "Excellence" every year.

"Best"?  Should be pretty good, right?  Scoutmaster of the Year.

There were five Patrol Leaders.  They could not tell me the names of the respective patrols of which they were "Leader." (I asked because I saw the green bars but no patrol medallions.)

Stand outside the door and listen during the troop meeting.  Whom do you suppose you hear?

SM: "Have the patrols breakout during the meeting?  Why, the patrol leaders would be in charge."

Separate patrol activities during the year was equal to the number of patrol flags at the meetings.  Nada.

When playing games at the troop meetings, it was 1s vs 2s.

35 pp of troop bylaws drafted by the SM

The UC "knew" only that he was "the best Scoutmaster in the Council."

Scout training completed by the SM = ______________________________("You only need to like boys.").

 

 

This is why I left the first troop I was associated with as an ASM became a SM of a troop that drove hard on the PM.  I was asked to leave that second troop because I expected "too much leadership from the boys".  It was ironic that I was asked to leave the third week of GBB Patrol Method training.   The boys grew from 5 scouts to 28 in 3 years.  I know for a fact that those numbers have dropped back down since I left. 

I seriously believe the vast majority of adults do not wish to see their boys using the PM as the leadership it develops is a threat to their control over their "children".

I paid my way to WB, but after a year, I was reimbursed by the troop for the cost.  Over the years I have donated the money back to the boys.

We had a tag-a-long last summer at summer camp.  The boys unanimously agreed that if it happened again, they would go home on Monday.  I couldn't make it to summer camp, but heard nothing else but the problems she caused in the troop.  The boys did not have a good experience from what they relayed to me.  I don't see this as a good sign for my troop.

Early Scout literature, including the SBHB used knighthood chivalry as a means to teach the Scout Law.  Something could be done to adopt some form of historical knighthood ceremony instead.  Boys love swords and lances....  Knights of the Roundtable would not interfere with any ethnic issues.

A Scout is Courteous,  Kind, kinda thingy.  Each "lodge" or whatever they would call it could have it's own coat-of-arms instead of American Indian logos. 

Roman Empire is also a possibility.

Vikings might be to ethnic to consider as would the Mongol Hordes.

I think other possibilities on the table would not be the end of the world.

I totally understand where this gentleman was coming from.  I went to a seminar and there were about 15 of us in one room.  One of the guys snored so loud that he was the only one that got any sleep.  This seminar was to last a whole week!  The second night one of the guys brought a large glass of water into the dorm room and put it on the night stand.  The guy who snored asked what that was for.  He said, "If you snore again tonight I'm going to pour the whole glass down your throat.  The rest of us said that if he didn't we would.  That gentleman didn't snore for the rest of the week.

If it had been me, I'd have packed up and left a note saying I would return in the morning and then headed out to some place quiet. 

1) the gentleman did not go into the other bedroom, but went into the main area.  I don't know where in the room, but did he attempt to find a place away from the boys?

2) The second night I would have put the gentleman who snored in one of the bedrooms and had all the boys sleep in the main area, asked him to find somewhere else to sleep, or got a  glass of water and set it next to my bed.

People CPAP machines make arrangements for consideration of others.  People who snore don't always know they  do it.

Who's to fault?  What up-front precautions were addressed for such a situation?  None?  At 1:OO am, what options are open?  I would just let the gentleman know his snoring is an issue and he needs to take appropriate steps to deal with it or overnights won't be on the agenda for him.

Did any of the boys make any comments on this situation?  If any did, I would hold a private SMC with anyone who did.  I'm thinking in the middle of the night, none of them may have even noticed unless a YPT issue was present.

If none of that satisfies your "gut" go with reporting it.

As UC going around to the various units, I have found that the "good" units are well indoctrinated with adult led.  Of course the adults can run the show better.  Patrol Method?  Those that try get frustrated easily and abandon the process even before it has a chance to get a foothold.

All the dynamics of today's society run counter to the patrol method.  Home? Parents run the show at home and they have no intention of budging "as long as that kid is under my roof".  Schools?  Yeah, right, no teacher is going to turn over the class to total anarchy, they will lose their jobs! Churches?  most of the youth programs are centered around trying to keep the kids in an entertainment program so they keep coming back, not about any leadership or mission focus.  That is a lot more difficult than playing games and heating up pizza.  Sports?  Like the captain of the team is anything more than a title?  Coaches still run the drill for the program. Neighborhood gangs?  Yes, they have a draw and will continue to do so as long as there is a void of more constructive endeavors for the boys to be involved in.

Other than chores, homework, and playtime on a team, what is there for today's youth?  BSA is playing right into the same forces and is going to try and compete without a "gimmic" other than going outside in the weather, bugs and have a sleepover in the woods.  Right, that's gonna sell.  So the adults run the show trying to guess one step ahead of the rest of the adults out there and no one is ever asking what the kids really want.  There's a smorgasbord of activity and nothing of any substance.  Patrol Method is about the only structure where boys today can do something entirely different, and that's been swept under the rug over time by the BSA.