Gunny2862

I don't know much about the OA! In fact I was just tapped, "called out" on Saturday. Purple diamond. There was some discussion about a member of the "Key 3" who was supposed to show up to do the actual "sign off"? on adult prospects. None of whom were there but apparently one or more of them phoned in(or showed up and immediately departed) an assent for myself and a couple of others. What positions are these Key 3 people? If that can be told to an as yet non member. Lisabob - has a lottery OR an future contribution ranking been considered? If the latter I would think that only current OA members who may have a better understanding of what is really going to help the Chapter and thus be best for the Troop should do that ranking. Then maybe you could say that that would be the criteria from now on - since in my limited knowledge that seems to be what the OA actually is supposed to use in determining candidates OR that if everyone stays active that you might clear that list of current prospects before adding any others but even that assumes that they WOULD all be selected which may not be the case.

You know Eamonn, I agree. However some decisions are circumstancial - i.e. when dressing for a military uniform inspection that didn't involve the utility uniform we were taught to put the shoes on before the trousers so we could have our: socks, shirt-garters, t-shirt and uniform shirt properly placed. If you bent over to put on the shoes and tie them you could very easily knock everything else out of alignment. But not utilizing shirt-garters anymore and not being inspected by Marines I don't usually do everything their way anymore. And in the Scout world as in the Marines no one I know of would put on their boots before their trousers unless they had those zip open cuffs on the trousers. But, there may be an exception out there. For some reason I'm a left sock first guy - I think it may be possible that Senior Drill Instructor Staff Sergeant Ryan my have done his job a little too well on that one, I'm not sure....

I once tried a buckle w/o a belt. I found it to be so distracting I was unable to be successful in any other concurrent endeavor. The Scouting way with a belt and a buckle is much superior. I find it nearly impossible to reconcile the idea of it taking someone more than 60 days to be able to increase their pullups by one without some underlying medical condition. Unless they weren't really dedicated to doing it. That said, Congratulations Kittle!, and tell the boy he did good to finally PULL it out! Good Job!

I've used alternate methods at times which are especially appropriate when people are only doing one or two pullups. For instance, pushups are great for pullups especially if you vary your hand placement and do very close or "diamond"pushups and wide hand pushups. Two chairs with a broom handle is also good, takes off some of the weight, can progress from the seat portion up to the high back portion and develop muscles along the entire back. It does have the flaw of not being specific to the "full"pullup actually being tested but if done daily or every other day should result in an increase of the specific pullup being tested.

Hi Dawn, I don't have a direct answer to your question and am not aware of a Five year plan other than the Four years offered in "Program helps" (may not be the correct name)which I don't think applies to your question. But, there is another thread called "New Troop" in Todays active topics you might be interested in! There are many here who are more qualified than I am but for my two cents: Get ALL of the adults to training. SET the expectation that any new adults will do as you have done and will all get their training. FILL the Committee. Then, Get OUT of the boys way and ensure that you give them the support they need while encouraging them to run as much of it as possible, then encourage them to do more. Or, do this last thing first and then do all of the rest. GET the Position holders trained in their respective positions - if the money is there then expect that higher ranking Scouts will go to Philmont get additional training and then be expected to come back and help lead the troop with their new knowledge. Let your vision be of a troop where none of the adults actually work more than an hour a week - because the boys CAN do more than most adults think they can. Let the boys OWN the program. Now, Expect that it all happens and guide it in that direction. Let us know how it goes!(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

As to two POR's at one time - I don't know about Margaret's issue but I also have an APL who is a DC also. In his case, his Father is the CM and his littlest brother is a Webelos I. He does a great job in both positions and like most adults is another example of "if you want something done find the busy person and ask them." He would have been there helping anyway and just chose to make it official.

It also tends to squash discussion/learning from the very people who need it most - the new Scouter. 13 months of Career Scouting, no time as a youth. 4 as ASM, 9 as SM and I've been lurking rather than posting recently because it feels like SOME of my fellow Scouters would rather SPORT than be helpful. It's not much Sport when you smack down a newbie though (it should seem to easy)- how about saving that for the experts? And assume that newer Scouters actually want to know and either don't have or don't know about the source you are going to cheerfully inform them about? I may have missed John's posts in which he claims he may have been less than well-behaved but I've never read him that way.

It was everything I could do not to bid on it! Please don't post anymore like it! Now if I had some paper, red marker, a black pen, and a pin maybe I could make my own SUPER THRIFTY AMAZINGLY LUCKY LOSING RAFFLE TICKETS!

jblake47, just as a Whisperlight isn't the only petro-fuels stove out there I used the littlbug purely as an example of type - not saying there aren't better, cheaper ways to go. For my Personal(non-Scout) camping I'm now on Alcohol stoves (Homemade)and candles, with an Indian (small) wood fire for cooking without using the alcohol when I can. But I'd like to see a gear list from a Troop that is successfully avoiding the heavy lift(Trailer) style of camping.

Here we go into opinion and part of the world info. Lets say for the sake of the discussion that the same impact was felt to build a chemical stove(Whisperlite e.g.) and for a reusable woodburner, (http://www.littlbug.com/). In the examples given I don't think that would be true but... Is a downed tree and its wood less of an impact whether it burns or if it decomposes more slowly? Does the manufacturing of the fuel for the stove have a larger or lesser impact, how about the fuel's packaging cycle? Around here there are parts of the back woods where you can't travel(with a pack and in some areas without one) because of all of the fuel down by ice storms over the last two years. There is plenty of natural fuel(wood) available it is primarily a matter of how to use it safely without sending up the whole forest. I know people think that a whole ecosystem could be lost for want of a single tree in some areas and I'm not in those areas and won't disagree. I also would be more than willing to modify my habits to travel thru their habitats. But here there really isn't much of an argument that burning a little wood wouldn't be a bad thing - unless we are also willing to wait for natures correction - a really really big fire - in which case the wood burns anyway.

How about this then? Gern. http://www.eurekacampingctr.com/eureka/product.asp?s_id=0&prod_name=ZEUS+2+EXO&pf_id=PAAAAAEGMPGHHDCN&dept_id=3049 Zeus 2 EXO by Eureka(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I would much rather go into the woods with someone who was smart enough to realize that something was bothering them than some of the oblivious people I do deal with. "Oh those black clouds are moving right towards us, how pretty!" Okay at some parts of the year in Missouri just time to hole up, at others, like right now it may be time to activate the escape plan. Tornadoes and Boy Scouts do not mix. Although a Tornado might mix them up! Pay attention,and heed your instincts but don't go overactive with the imagination either.

Gern, have you seen this? http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/The_One.html or this? http://www.backpacker.com/june_2005_gear_review_tent_cloudburst/article/8926 The one you gave the link for seems to not have as much floor space as I might want for the weight. But does look like a good option.

Scoutnut1019, Rule 1 - Never do ANYTHING a Scout can do. Rule 2 - Get Trained - then train the Scouts Rule 3 - See rule 1. GOOD LUCK! Lauwit, you've gotten good advice. One additional piece that I'm going to borrow/paraphrase from John... If you are asked to be the next Scoutmaster and that is what this question is in preparation for then: You never again will have the power you have in that moment - That is when you make the case that if the COR hires you as the Scoutmaster that you will be doing things differently - and if they won't agree to the specifics you lay out then they shouldn't hire you. In order for this to work at its best it would be a good idea if you had all of your required training and any supplemental training you can get and had your "Trained" patch on. This will help you develop your specific items you intend to change. Use the Eight methods of Scouting - thus far in my limited experience (I'm only at this a year myself) a troop that doesn't have a good outdoor program doesn't have a program. The more of the rest of the methods you use the better. Good Luck!

I had a lot to say but it's largely been covered already. If cheap is a priority in the equation you can also usually make a fleece or even sweatshirt material liner (just don't use a full zipper that can eat up the whole $20) for less than 20 bucks if you can find enough material in a remnant sale. This as mentioned above is often all one needs for a summer bag and will easily add 10 - 20 degrees to your regular bags rating for winter use.

John-in-KC, absolutely - sometimes your civvie gear just doesn't stay where you can get it or you might get a fast turnaround and not be able to draw it and so, travel regulations have been generally relaxed to and from this theatre. acco40, I think I'm tracking on this one. What the undercurrent of what I actually wrote was supposed to convey would have been along the lines of : Unless the military person was performing assigned work duties with a military purpose(which could include community service or a recruiting function - but it must have been assigned by a person in the military hierarchy) which could be reasonable expected to ruin one of the other uniform options he shouldn't be visiting the Troop in a BDU uniform. This fits both the BSA's desire to not be seen as paramilitary by avoiding the camouflage issue and following appropriate military regulations. If the visitor is in the appropriate uniform for a visit, then no problem either way - at least not for me.

IMHo, Shadowrider is correct, that an appropriate uniform for the venue and activity would be in order. I don't know the regs for the other services and so will leave those for someone else to give... For a Marine: The thing is, for a Marine that unless the regs have changed neither Cammies = "BDU's, a Charlie, or a Bravo uniform is authorized for leave or liberty leaving one with the option to wear either Alphas or Blues. Which would lead one to believe that wearing said "A" or "B" uniform to a Court of Honor or to address a Troop or Patrol meeting might be appropriate. Leave is with orders, Liberty is anytime one is not considered to be on duty and has been "released" for the day. Liberty is usually less than 24 hours and rarely exceeds 72(occasionally up to 96) hours without having converted to a Leave status with the appropriate paperwork. BDU's or any other uniform could be worn if the Marine were there as part of his official duties and the uniform was appropriate to those duties. My understanding for all services is that while in most instances it is desired that BDU's NOT be worn while not on duty while in contact with the civilian populace, that if you need gas and must procure it on the way home then that would be okay. Stopping at the Mega-store, not usually okay. Stopping at the Boy Scout meeting - probably not okay in BDU's in most instances.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

uh, question. Bobwhite said, "There is nothing in the policies of the BSA that keeps a unit from setting their own rerquirements for a POR. Setting requirements for a POR is not the same as adding or deleting requirements for a rank." Question is, If a POR is required for advancement to a rank AND additional requirements are added by the Troop to be allowed to hold a POR, THEN isn't that adding requirements for the rank? Or do I not understand the main point again.?

Pack212Scouter, I realize that it is the adults that need the training to qualify under this program. I even said so, "we get people(Scouters) trained", (the following is for clarification) the rest of the statement/question referred to the boys pushing their Scouter parents to get trained in order to raise the percentages for following years - like this one, 2008. I think we'll make this one,'08, too.

I concur with AnneinMpls on this one, if you would like some advice on this one you need to give us a little direction. I think I may be wearing your SM's shoes except I am trying to actively grow the boys into their Leadership positions. Have held a TLT - to the best of my ability. And am breaking out the TLT syllabus again because the SPL called me and said he's calling a PLC for one of our upcoming School release days. He says the PLC members still don't understand what they should be doing and he wants to go over it again. (Theres finally some momentum - the rock moved...) The difference I see is that I have a vision, and you have a vision - the thing is to get your SM, that direct contact leader, to get the vision. Let us know how we can help you.

If other Scouters won't believe that we aren't trying to be the best leaders we can be then why would we expect the general public to think so? Does anyone on this forum really believe that the Scouters who volunteer to give up their own time to be Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters, Various Committee members, various Commissioner posts are not trying to do their best? And included in that are not wholly ignorant or grossly incompetent? That the majority of those on this forum(if clearly not those in Scouting as a whole by Nationals own numbers) are seeking and completing BSA training and via this forum trying to find out what works for others or get access to perspectives we may never get from our immediate associates. If we do believe others are trying to do their best then why do some of us spend so much time insulting our fellow Scouters and impugning their motives or training instead of giving usable advice the occasional kind word after a tough problem, or giving resource information? Even if one chooses to quote a resource it can be done without implying that the Scouter has been willfully violating it. I can certainly be accused of ignorance of things in the BSA, but I'm not usually stupid. (Not saying that can't occur )

Perhaps one could ask questions of knowledgeable Scouters, possibly find out what(if anything) and why, they would do things differently? Perhaps be "mentored" a little by those older, wiser Scouts? Of course I prefer my mentoring with the assumption that I didn't purposely mess up any prior actions.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Oh Ed, if only it were so. You wouldn't believe how hard I've had to work to FIND training, much more the training I needed for any position I held at the time. Still not "Trained". Although if it's not delayed, postponed or canceled AGAIN, maybe I will be by the end of the month.

Well as to pressure from above... I've not had any on THIS issue. The boys got used to wearing Quality unit awards, they kicked our tushies until we got up and did the paperwork for this new one. Fortunately we were already doing the source record keeping, and I in my newbie enthusiasm had talked the former SM into submitting goals before that deadline date. The question is; as we get people(Scouters) trained are they going to be able to push their parents into joining us so the percentages can continue to rise for the '08 and subsequent awards?

I tried that approach in a job interview but haven't done it in a Scouting venue. The fellow didn't get the job - he chose not to use his second bite at the apple. It was a shame he was by far the best candidate, on paper. I think it might work though, might even be a good discriminator on those who care v. those who don't.