Gunny2862

Below is the Link to the 100% Boys Life Quality unit award we earned this year. If you did it the way you were supposed to there WAS some record keeping involved but it wasn't particularly hard. http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=INSIGNIA&C4=&LV=3&item=18023&prodid=18023^8^01RTL&

I may be wrong, but I think it has to do with the number of people stepping in the exact same place within a certain amount of time. If you have the smaller groups with some separation the ground cover has a chance to recover - if you are all in a group together you may compress or tear up the ground cover, damaging it. It is really more of a concern at altitude or in areas with sparser vegetation - where we are at it is NOT a concern.

GW is referring to ed saying(above) " but never with Scouts!" - one shouldn't drink in front of Scouts, which one would most likely be doing in Uniform(a brown/tan shirt.)

GW, I am in no way saying you were't factually correct about the uniform. I don't own an insignia guide yet. But probably wouldn't be able to dispute your facts. Did you take the challenge? Did you re-read those posts? In what way do they follow the Scout Oath or Law? Someone comes to a forum for advice and you gloat about chasing them off!? And when called on it, divert the subject? And claim that "we" did it. OKAY! 1)Anyone who will claim to have enjoyed chasing off the original poster. 2)And additionally admit they did it on purpose. Admit it. Even if you wind up with accomplices it was still completely unscoutlike to act that way. If you are a Scouter I was under the impression that you/we were supposed to set the example. That's a fine one there.

GW, Do you think you scared them off? You seem proud of it. Did you want to help or WIN. I challenge you to go back and re-read your posts. Do they look (in tone of voice) like the way you'd like to be spoken to, or for your wife to be spoken to, or for that matter how you'd like your Scouts to respond. To me it read not of frustration but of calculated meanness. I apologize in advance if I'm wrong, but your posts and the most recent one make me think I'm not.

I don't know but until today, the thought hadn't occurred. My preffered method would be to find a Troop and "associate/partner" with them directly.

Merlyn, I'm sorry, what I meant was more along the line of how could it be bad if "for instance" everyone followed the Scout Oath and Law. Not necessarily referring to any discriminatory policies. The religious or atheist or sexual preference/identity arguments aside was more of the idea I was thinking. Or allowing the perceived Religious(or other but I wasn't thinking that at the time) differences to sublimate somewhat in the context of the Scouting relationship. Sort of a "Why can't we all just get along?" approach with in the framework of Scouting.

Hot Foot Eagle, True. Even today, the Military provided issue prescription glasses are the only authorized uniform prescription eyewear. Most of the time you can wear what you want(eyewear) as long as it isn't overly eccentric out of formation but in formation its either the issue glasses or take your personal ones off and be blind until the formation is over, at least in CONUS.

BW, 1)the thread originator has chimed in on the direction he intended for the thread. 2)Context driven argument, You are thinking only of the clothing as the uniform, in fact every item of equipment from Boot to Sleeping bag, to Sunglasses, to Umbrella to Purse or Backpack and LBE(Load Bearing Equipment) even to the way they are carried and by either male or female falls under uniform regulations in the military. If I were in the Marine Corps and told you to bring your issue flashlight then I better see a GI green or black angle headed flashlight with filters red, blue, clear or yellow and "polarizing". If you had a Surefire with red and blue filters you may or you may not get into trouble - mostly depending on whether or not I wanted to accomplish a function or wanted obedience to orders - remember Criminal jeopardy or an a** kicking may apply. In this case it is not personal gear. Same thing goes for underwear/base layers the mission Commander may not have given you all of the information about why there will be no synthetics and prescribed cotton for a reason - or perhaps purely on a whim - in either case once prescribed it is a lawful order to have it and not personal gear. And again Criminal jeopardy may be attached. In fact, any item that can be seen through or under (think long johns showing at the collar of your BDU blouse) that is not an issue item or has been proscribed(not misspelled) COULD be reason to charge one with being out of uniform. When you try to make the comparison the context has to come in. Uniform articles specifically mentioned in the article include:Oakley Protective Sunglasses, Thinsulate Boots, Socks, Ammo Pouches, (by construction Gore-tex garments vice cotton long johns... I don't think they even make these), flame retardant shirts, Tactical Tailor (Good stuff by the way.)packs and pouches, Helmet pads - I like Oregon Aero stuff but they aren't specifically mentioned but the fellow and his organization who is mentioned buys a lot of their stuff. Flak jackets - what the guys are really buying aren't flak Jackets(mentioned in article) but Bullet?proof? vests and/or trauma plates(not mentioned in article). So as you can see uniform may mean entirely different things to a civilian and to a military member. BW, I think we would agree that someone not wearing BSA green socks with the red rim at the top would be out of uniform - But would we agree that If you were wearing a Coat/Jacket other than the ones sold by BSA that one was out of uniform. Pedantically, only the Red Jac-shirt and possibly the nylon windbreaker would be approved for uniform wear - everyone else wearing a coat, jacket or sweater is out of uniform.

Semper Fi, coffee goat. BTDT2 Tabasco in the eye? Now theres a wake me up. Ruins your Marksmanship though...

Merlyn, I'm open to education. But I thought that was the point. What they could do. Am I in this instance confusing it with a slippery slope argument/camels nose under the tent argument then? There's definitely a fallacy somewhere in that argument.

Merlyn, Straw-man, I expect better from you. Scoutldr, feel your pain. But not a Scoutlike sentiment, but this is issues and politics. Calico-Penn, other than a portion of one of mine(if you take it other than how I meant it), where are you getting misogyny? And how is anything I've said anti-Islam? One point of possible incongruity/sexisim but not anti-/Islam.

True, BSA does exclude some. My question is whether Muslims are likewise excluded? I don't think so. I thought they were starting Muslim Troops in Baghdad. And if they actually buy into the Scout Oath and Law, how can that be bad?

I haven't yet canceled an outing. But, I have canceled a Troop meeting. Under conditions such as you mention, your CC and ASM's are valuable resources assuming they go with you on most outings. I'd look for a consensus opinion from them reserving the final Go/noGo for myself. And I agree, the Campout itself may be quite a fun little adventure(I'd have a hard time canceling due to this) - in my opinion - it would be the travel out and back that would be my concern. If you decide to cancel, you can assure yourself with this, no one ever really blamed the leader for his choice when the child came home safe. It's one thing to take a risk for yourself, it's another to put the boys at risk.

acco40, In response to that view. Does BSA pay for an initial uniform issue? Can BSA refer subject a Scout or Scouter to the criminal justice system in order to, restrict their movement, reduce their income, indeed incarcerate the Scout for failure to follow it's uniforming guidelines? The military can. And could be one reason why there is such adherence in the military and why the news article in question, is news.

In my most humble of opinions, It is my belief that the person completes the mission, in the Military and in Scouting. The Gear is there to help you. I think the thread is about using what the Organization prescribes v. using what works - as long as it doesn't directly offend the Organization. The basic gear is good enough, but I was also an early adopter of non-standard glasses and sunglasses (before I had Lasik). I also used makes of Diving lights or Streamlights well before I was aware that the SureFire brand hit the market - they are great by the way, currently own two. I owned synthetic base layers at a time when you could only get them from Specialty catalog outfits or Running stores. I had and used in the field a Gore-Tex tent when I had never met anyone who owned a Gore-Tex Jacket. Sometimes good enough just isn't what is called for - a tarp is good enough but when there is a foot of snow on the ground isn't a tent better? As to clothing in Scouting, for what it costs, in this area WE (my Troop) will probably never be fully uniformed during outings. We have never been all together in the same place in the SAME uniform(even all in bluejeans, or all in shorts) in almost a year. Part of it is that the parents don't see the benefit of uniforming and Catch-22, won't until they try it or support it. And unless I as the Scoutmaster buy it, as someone else has pointed out, am not in charge of what motivations or(by extension)clothing parents put in the Scouts possession. As a matter of fact as of this moment I have NEVER seen ANY Troop all in the correct uniform at the same time. The same, yes, correct, NO. And wouldn't BSA be concerned with any item that showed under the uniform, Or covered it up? I.E the Sweater discussion currently(or that just took) taking place on this forum? So, for me, using alternate items, especially for outings, isn't a big deal at all. Although, I have stuck to my guns and am only wearing Switchbacks, but don't have enough "scouting" T-shirts to say I am staying in an Activity uniform 100%.

I really think it's interesting that the Male Muslims don't request a similar "male-only" time so they aren't distracted by all of the Non-Muslim women working out in their "immodest" apparel. And, that now that they've got the time slot approved,(from the article) that an observer has noted that it's not being used during the time it is reserved. "An Associated Press reporter who went to the gym Monday did not see any Muslim women entering. Efforts to reach some of the women who requested the policy through the Women's Center were unsuccessful." Of course the question could be asked "Did he see any women entering the gym, and if so how could he know if they were Muslim or not? Just because they don't wear the hijab doesn't mean they aren't Muslim and might still want to work out in less clothing than they would wear in front of men. Or, "Was there a Muslim holy day that precluded their work out that day?" It wouldn't be Ramadan, that's not until September-October this year.

Ensure you've taken care of Food storage, Ice, critter protection, etc. Have water available on site or potable water & storage you are taking with you, you'll need more than you think. Make sure if you are using public land that all your ducks are covered there. Your local contact for Eastern Carolina Conservation lands should be... http://www.ctnc.org/landtrusts/coastal.htm National Park lands at nps.gov. We've encountered the need for special use permits for groups as small as six depending on where we were going. Check the weather immediately prior to departure. Make sure someone knows where you actually will be the route you are taking to get there and return and estimated time of return and time to start worrying when late.(Council isn't coming to look for you ) Do all of the boys have the ten essentials?

Okay, as for Reheating and serve stories. The story as told to me during my 1987 deployment on the USS Sumpter, LST 1181, a Newport class Landing Ship Tanks. Is that from her Commissioning Date: 20 June 1970 to the date we left (16-17 years) once the first pot of coffee was made the Big Bunn coffee urns in the main mess deck were NEVER cleaned. They may have scraped out enough to lower the coffee filter carrier down into the water but they never cleaned out the pot. Having done my turn as a messman for the embarked troops I can verify that when I was there, there was at least a 1.25 inch thick layer of "seasoning" around the edge of the pot. Now that was coffee.... http://www.usssumter.org/

Yes, they're much better than just dipping the grounds. If the ASM brings them then that's what we use.

Thanks for the input! Anyone else want to chime in?

Instant! Auugh! You know you're desperate when you'll drink instant or dip grounds. And when you'll dip instant it's really time to see the Doctor(Psy.), again. BTDT.

We have one of those and love it at summer camp and trailer camps.

gwd-scouter, Congratulations, way to go! We are still in the process of trying to get our older Scouts (mostly Eagles or right on the cusp) to stay involved and mentor the middle Scouts as they assume more responsibility. Our middle level Scouts are doing a great job of mentoring the First and Second years. Hope we can get to where you are! Although it may be by training the current middle group to keep mentoring the next set rather than by changing the actions of the older Scouts. It is hard to change things, when they have happened in a certain way before.

LongHaul, Hey, I agree fully with that approach! I just want to note that we ALSO need to educate the parents as to why it is that way. Since we do need their involvement to (at a minimum) register the boys regardless of how they want to do it.