Gonzo1

OGE, Sorry to break the bad news, but it makes you an Anti Brusselite.

Merlyn, So, it's not about becoming a scout leader (by creating your own scout type organization) it's more about being an agitator to those of us who have what we have (BSA) which is something you cna't have (membership in our private organization). Hmmm, sums it up a little better. .......... Merlyn is an agitator. I just heard that court ruling referenced on TV last night. The the SCOTUS once ruled that atheism is a religion and in a separate ruling that the United States is a "Christian Nation". Merlyn, I ain't going anywhere. We're private and that's that.

I think if you're more informal, the better, but still have a format. Pass out the agenda at the begining and perhaps the upcoming calendar. Start by opening the meeting perhaps with the Pledge and Oath. Have the secretary read the minutes and move along. When a key person makes a report, ask them to take a minute or so to make the report. Close with a benediction. Just a few thoughts. Simple is better, less is more.

Well now, since you helped BSA to stop schools from chartering BSA units, it's time to go away. By the way, why don't you start your own group. I've suggested it, but why don't you do it?

OGE, I get it. I understand the difference between the CO and where units meet. It's also important to point out, especially to Merlyn, that as far as i know, BSA doesn't charter units to public entities anymore, about 4 or 5 years now. There may be a straggler or two, but overall, not anymore. Merlyn, as far as I know, like I just mentioned and has been mentioned before, BSA no longer charters units to public schools. Maybe "friends of PS 19" or some such thing.

Food (munchies) and coffee or bug juice seem to bring people to gether. Rotate the responsiblity of who brings what. I agree with most of the others, keep the meeting moving, no griping.

MichaelOA, As you can see, some of us get pretty passionate about this topic. What if it were to do with Duty to Country instead? What if some people believed that selfless service to others is overrated? What if some people said the country is ______ and I'm just in this boy scout thing for me, forget the other guy? The BSA has a declaration that the BSA believes no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. I don't think a youth may be agnostic or atheist. Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle is true, I suppose some will slip through

GW, Please explain further. Can't you be served anywhere? Can't you attend you church of choice? Can't you sit anywhere on the bus? I'll conceed now that you must pay the bus fare, maybe be appropriately dressed for some restaurants and have the money to pay.

That's right. Mil-spec means kinda like the military issue, but not quite. Good enough to go hunting or camping with, but not the actual real deal. In the military, officer have to buy their own uniforms, enlisted personnel are given an initial set and an allowance to update their clothing. But, they are cautioned to only purchase from the military clothing sales store on post. Honestly, you could "get away" with buying gloves, a poncho or poncho liner, maybe a beret off post, but some things just don't hold up well. It's a waste of time. Besides, some unauthorized manufacturers ma

I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how anyone's civil rights were ever violated because someone couldn't join a private club? Start your own, if I can't join YOUR club, would you be violating MY civil rights? I think whether someone joins a club or group or BSA is more a PRIVILEDGE, not a right. Edited part: You have the right to be served in a restaurant, sit where you want on the bus, go to school, attend a place of worship of your choice. You don't have the right to join a private organization. Meet the joining requirements, then join.(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

GW, Military issure compasses and other gear are the real deal. Unfortunately, I've found that "milspec" is not the same. It will look very very similar, but will not perform the same way. The milspec compasses look "real" but the needle moves around too much, it doesn't settle down quickly and stop wiggling. For example, milspec gloves are fine, but milspec uniform pieces are not. They look good until you wash them, then they fade quickly as though they were 20 years old after 2 washes.

ASM915, I would be glad to help, but, it would be easier to teach this kind of stuff in person. Amost any recruiting station or reserve center or national guard armory can gladly provide a soldier to help. They'll find an Eagle Scout or someone about to go off to a leadership course to help out. Hi to Mrs. 915! JG

Yeah, I like Walmart gear too, but i only use Silva system compasses or military issue lensatic, not milspec.

The signing of a chartering agreement is SECRET? It's a part of the congressional record. Public document, not secret. Congress can charter just about anything. Why not ask your congressman to charter your atheist group? I bet that with some effort, you could charter your own atheist scout type group. Oh wait, there already is one, I think it's Scouting for All, maybe Spiral Scouts too. Start another, you can be Grand Poobah!

Gern writes: "Yet the LDS make up about 1.8% of the population and have the majority of power in how the BSA operates." Gern, I really don't know how the LDS church has a majority power in how BSA operates, please explain.

Merlyn, after I had my morning cup of coffee, I realized that I didn't care much for the tone of your last post in this thread and I decided to respond again. Can YOU even follow a conversation? Seriously, we have told you that atheists are not allowed in the BSA. The courts have upheld our position. We are a private organization and atheists are not allowed to join. Want to go camping and wear a uniform, start your own group.

I hope you're attempts are a waste of time and lots of money. It's private. You can't join. Unless of course, wait a minute, you can join. All you have to do is meet the requirements for membership. You already know what they are, then you can join. It will also cost about $15 or something. My arguemt isn't with Bob White, it's with you, sometimes I disagree with others, but mainly I disagree with you. Skeptic, you can't be kinda gay or kinda atheist. You either are, or are not. No real gray area here.(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Acco40 writes: "Okay, let's say I'm Mr. Athiest. Me and the little women raise up a few kids. One day, my oldest asks - "Dad, why does the president always end his public speeches with God bless America?" Well, son, I answer, he believes in God and he is expressing his belief something that most Americans, including your mother and I believe in." First, let's start by saying that you either made a typo or you're a "fundamentalist" atheist with multiple wives (women). I say YES, it is freedon FROM religion as well. You don't have to listen to Presidential speeches, turn it off. Our

Gern, Without the rule and standards, we would have a good ol' boys camping club. Maybe 4H, Sierra Club or the National Wild Turkey Federation or some other outdoors oriented group can take the atheist and gays and teach 'em about the outdoors. As to why the whole DRP isn't on the form, I can't answer that, I didn't desgn the form. I suppose to make an educated guess, I'd say the reason would be to save paper, why don't you ask national and let us know. (This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Gern, I think you ask a loaded question, but, yes, because while I'm no geologist, I believe that the rock walls of the Grand Canyon could not be made by receding waters from the Great Flood. I suppose you're going to tell me that's what park rangers tell people. C'mon, everyone knows the Grand Canyon was made by Paul Bunyan dragging his axe behind him.

BDPT00, I'm merely saying that if a tour guide is hired by a company to give tours, the public has a reasonable expectation that the information the public receives is factual, not made up like Benjamin Franklin had 69 illegitimate children and that three-time widow Betsy Ross killed her husbands. I realize people make mistakes, but I think its' wrong to make stuff up if the tour guide is employed by a company to give tours. Otherwise, the guide could open their own business and let the market decide. Word will get out that XYZ company has bogus guides, but boy, they sure tell a tale.

Packsaddle, Indeed, dissent is acceptable, for conversation, debate, but not to admit atheists since the rules are clear, but the discussion is fine. I don't agree with other rules BSA has, but I'll support them. Of course, I hope you know that I wasn't trying to 'argue' with you. Thanks for the PM. Gern, I didn't say that homosexuals are more likely to be pedaphiles, I said I'm not sending my kid camping with a homosexual or to any scout activity. In another thread, I mentioned that a "big wig" from national had spoke to out commissioners college and said that rather than adm

Packsaddle, My friend, to paraphrase Beavah's way of typing, da rules is da rules, eh? (though not actually paraphrasing Beavah's comments or beliefs) Whether you signed an original application before the DRP comment was on it or not, you still agreed to live by the Scout Oath and Law. I will concede that closeted homosexuals and atheists are in deed members of the BSA. I believe thse folks are not being honest and forthright in their membership BECAUSE they joined fraudulently. In the military, before the days of "dont ask, don't tell", service members were discharged for "

Any recriuting station should be able to provide assistance. Area reserve centers or National Guard armories too. Plus, the military personnel can almost always be allowed to do volunteer work, and, your unit may get a new committee member or ASM.

Merlyn write: "The only relevant factors are what BSA officials have said regarding whether belief in god is a membership requirement. They have; it is." Put a fork in it, you're done. Stop trying to change the BSA requirements for membership, belief in God IS A REQUIREMENT FOR MEMBERSHIP. Bye bye.