fred8033

Agreed. ... And I used the wrong number. I thought it was in the 90+ thousand. 98000 was in my head. I agree that insurance companies should not be part of the bankruptcy. Pull out the BSA assets that BSA can survive without. Then, let creditors / lawsuits fight over that amount AND continue insurance claims. I'm not sure it even needs a CSA victim agreement. The question is how much cash can be preserved to pay past liabilities. The sooner done the better. I believe BSA is long-term viable if it can get past historic liabilities. I also believe more cash is available if

I feel for the situation. When you write "we have to be part of the bankruptcy", I see that emotionally and for debate. I just don't see it legally unless your state opens liability before BSA bankruptcy finalizes. IMHO ... this is an frustrating point of law ... I just don't understand how expired liabilities can be legislatively re-created. The Supreme Court has created a really weird situation allowing expired civil SOLs to be re-opened because they are different than criminal SOLs.

"Prosecure all perpetrators." Expired criminal SOLs can't be extended. That's the law. Liquidate LCs ... LCs are not in bankruptcy right now. So, it's not their chapter 11 or chapter 7. Only BSAs. No matter the route this goes, there is no adequate result. Plaintiffs expect millions. It's just not there. BSA does not have the assets. The funds just are not there. Even the LCs don't really have the assets. ... I doubt insurance companies even have enough to give each of the 98,000 plaintiffs a million. ... This whole bankruptcy is arguing over thousands or tens of thou

Thanks. I will have to hunt that sentence down. I've never seen it. ... I'm hunting. I can't find a BSA reference outside COVID protocols. If you can publish a source, I'd really appreciate it. ... I fully accept being wrong. I'd just like a source if I'm wrong.

Really interesting post with interesting details. Your 1st half (befor COVID FAQ) ... I'd argue your CO can require that both supervising adults be members of your CO unit, but the G2SS does not explicitly require that. It's your CO's choice. The G2SS has a vague flip-flop. Rarlier refering to "in a unit serving" and later just refering to registered leaders. The 72 hour paragraph never says "unit" anywhere. It refers only to registered leaders; aka BSA application; BSA background check and not removed from BSA. We've always had trouble differentiating BSA registration ver

Wow. Writing a simple, but precise document is really hard. G2SS seems vague. It's clear, the person must be registered with BSA (aka background checks, etc ... who calls the references on the adult leader app ... the local council? ???) ... But page 1 "Adult Supervision" sometimes refers to "registered in the unit" and sometimes just "registered as leaders". https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf ... numbered page #1 Unless the G2SS is re-written more precisely, I'd interpret the words as written. G2SS Pate 1 ... "All adults accompanying a Scouting

I hear good and bad in your writing. "Grays" ... This whole BSA bankruptcy is because of grays that are now being exploited by a legal system because the words in the charter did not match what everyone expected ... not church leaders ... not scout leaders ... not BSA staff ... not parents. Further, the structure creates problems because of unit leaders seen effectively the same as church staff and BSA staff. ... The fact is words matter. If the charter says XXXX, that XXXX better be happening otherwise there is negligence and liability for damage. The CO is smart to not want to si

Pay down debt? Probably. Also probably because BSA's finances are changed. I doubt they receiving the huge subsidizing donations they had in the past. I've watched price increases for 20 years that I've only been able to reason as correcting for lower donations.

Scouting is best when it's consistent. Schedule. Rules. Permission slips. ... You will have scouts coming and going. Parents coming and going. It's too hard to know if ... when the parents leaves for an afternoon ... if you have a permission slip from the scout to handle an issue. Just get the permission slip up front for all scouts participating.

Absolutely great answer. Great. ... and I only comment ... because I tend to comment ... ... "only go if the weather's nice" ... I would absolutely work toward never canceling. Yes, if the weather is dangerous or not managable, don't go. BUT, if there is a way to moderate the experience, go. Maybe it means, working with the camp ranger to have a roofed shelter. Or, change the plan to do XXXXX. ... Or camp out at your CO's building for the night with an outdoor camp fire. ... A key to success is to keep to your schedule. Too many cancels and scouts / adults find other places to s

Easy to agree with that. I don't agree that you get to choose for other people. Don't hijack district or unit mtgs where other people don't get a choice. A shorter time is acceptable, but don't cross the minute threshold without others having a choice.

I'm just catching up. Glad to read that someone posted it. "Could be filed in federal court" ... refering to requiring events / abuse that cross state boundaries or occurred on federal property (military bases, national parks, etc). Unless federal jurisdiction is triggered, state laws would be in effect with state SOLs. ... really wish I would have studied law ...

CSA is the bankruptcy driver, but I doubt BSA can limit background checks to that. BSA needs to look for criminal records that are kept at national, state and county levels. You also need to handle identity confirmation. This is not a minor challenge. Applications arrive at the registration office from online or via paper. They don't get to see a drivers license or identity card. This was a big expensive challenge in the 1980s. Each decade has introduced improvements. It's much easier now, but it's still not cheap. It costs money especially as you multiple the number by hun

I love that answer. Perhaps it would fit nicely with an OA conclave. WB recipients could be recognized.

Interesting ... Your comment made me search and read. The $5 sounds right for the search of the national sex offender database. Probably does not include identity verification, county(plural??) criminal checks, state criminal checks, national criminal checks, etc. Our school district charges volunteers $11 approx for their background checks. Add cost on top of that to maintain the background check system, paperwork, making sure you have signatures with permission to do the background check, etc. I'd imagine BSA can't administer the background check system for less than $20 pe

The words don't support your interpretation. The first sentence is talking about an activity ... singular ... a camp out, a trip, a high adventure .... Any activity that is 72 hours or more. The second sentence ... "not consecutive" ... exists so that adults don't game the system and leave the camp for two days and then return. If the adult comes and goes from the activity, it's the cumulative time. I've seen zero people apply this across separate different camp outs. I've seen zero people that include each troop meeting to this. This only applies activities that are at least 7

100% agreed. Except I'm more on the mode of 30 to 60 seconds planned with the knowledge that people being told 30 seconds will take two minutes. One of my biggest COH regrets was allowing a person five minutes at our COH thinking they would be done in 3 or 4. Then, they took 25 to 30 minutes. NOW, I would absolutely pulled them when they went over the time I gave. Then, I did not know better. I thought they knew what they were doing.

Yeah. I'm a HUGE BELIEVER in scouting is fun. Hanging with long-term friends. Adventures. Learning things you would not see otherwise. ... It's why I'm so so disappointed in the MB program. I can way more easily accept cooking as a MB than I can several of the others. All my sons have had adventures they will never forget. Sadly, many of the MBs were just a waste and a poor rehash of school. Perhaps, I'd accept the MB program way more if the program was more action oriented. Personally, I wish my sons never saw a MB fill-in-the-blank worksheet. A complete excitement killer.

4 hours ago, qwazse said: Then the worst thing litigants could do for our nation's youth is to discourage duly diligent CO's from engaging with them. It's not blaming survivors. It's a statement about society. Youth need somewhere to spend their time. Youth need opportunities to learn values, responsibility, skills, etc. Scouting has had 100+ million youth. The vast majority have benefited. The statement reflects the belief that a good portion of youth in scouting will be worse off. ... I know for one of my sons that would easily be true. Without the weekends camping,

You may have had due diligence, but prove it. Most of these incidents are from 1980s or earlier. That's effectively 40+ years. The average CO/COR/elder was probably 50+. So, we need to pull these CO/COR/elders out of the nursing home or the grave to testify. Good luck finding the CO records or proof. Zero COs have a way to prove they exercised due diligence or worked hard to keep their scouts safe. Even then, the reality is a perpetrator is not easily identifiable in-advance.

I had long talks with our pastor about that. ... Is scouting core to the CO purpose and would be significantly less without it. Almost always the answer is NO. For our CO church, the church has it's own long standing youth group and it's own long-standing faith formation program. Even more, scouting faith components are generic and not well aligned with the CO. i.e. the church can't use scouting to pass on their personal beliefs and values. So if it's not core, the church members don't invest the time and money to oversee and run the program. That's when negligence and lia

Agreed. If the program ever stabalizes (law suits, finances, membership, woke, etc) ... the MB program will need to be re-organized. In 2022, 14 of the 21 Eagle MBs will be explicitly required. Leaving 7 to be chosen by the scout. Of course the scout can always do more, but I'd really like to see the MB program truely matching the advertisement to explore and discover new skills and new careers. Too much feels like a weak immitation of school. Even the communication MB. Instead of the communication MB, couldn't we have a Life Rank requirement to design and MC a troop COH. Isn't th

"When I said ... the pack bus the advancements", I was referring to this pack's decision. IMHO, if the person is a member of the pack, the pack should not be asking the question as they don't for other members. Treat the dues / fundraising as a membership question, but not a does the pack buy advancements ... unless as you assert ... the pack asks all members to buy their advancements. Pay as you go ... I really like the idea if you can make it work. It is much more work for the treasurer and the pack leaders, but a nice model. I like it because some parents chase bling way out of bal

I was just saying ... don't mix involvement in fundraiser with buying advancement items. The real test is: are they a member of the pack? If yes, the pack buys the advancements ... UNLESS you charge back to each scout their advancement tokens. I've only see that for EXTRA tokens. One pack did it for belt loops. Pack bought rank and core advancement. Other things the pack expected families to purchase as there would always be one or two families running up the costs. The whole idea of fundraisers is to benefit the organization and the organization's goals; not just th

I really find this the most interesting development. City was sued City paid. Paid now because suits against the COs / LCs are not bankruptcy blocked. Shows the deepest possible pockets. Cities, insurers and large institutions. Shows not all paths are blocked now. Why are COs and LCs not being sued? They are not blocked by the bankruptcy case. Seems like BSA bankruptcy is noise blocking progress getting money for victims.