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fred8033

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Everything posted by fred8033

  1. fred8033
    Doesn't it depend on the incorporation of the fire department. Did the city run the fire department? Provide training? Own the building? Provide oversight? ... That's the whole volunteer scouter issue. BSA liable for volunteer actions. If a city fire department failed to oversee a scouting unit, then the city should be liable for damages. I'm also betting there is a paid staffer somewhere in the volunteer fire department chain. Even if paid a token amount. Similar can be argued for elementary school chartered packs. Or even for schools that allowed recruitment in the e
  2. fred8033
    Pack fundraisers are to help everyone in the pack. You can give them 20% (or similar) of their sales as an incentive, but the fundraiser's whole purpose is to reduce the cost for everyone doing work in the pack. The whole fundraiser / dues / cost is something that's been discussed ad nauseum. Key point is non-profit fundraising serves the purpose of the non-profit. Individual sales can benefit individual, but then there is a different question. Generally, pack sales are usually smaller than IRS noise level. I mention as charge dues is fine. But don't consider fundraiser sales as
  3. fred8033
    Extreme examples are often useful in debates. Many view him has an upstander. Others don't. But, I can accept your point. It's too inflammatory example for now. ... It's just the one I was reading about in the news today. ... It came to mind because he clearly stood up for what he believed was the right thing to do. He did not want to be the guy sitting 20 miles away doing nothing but watch a city burn. ... but you are right ... probably too inflammatory for now. ... I'll remove that sentence.
  4. fred8033
    I'm familiar with the word. It's a relatively new word introduced as many words are by inverting another word; bystander. The idea / concept is great. We want our scouts to have backbone to confront wrong. My issue is it started as a linguistic play-on-words and smells like a design-by-committee word. Too forced. Like Unobtanium from Avatar. Plus, I question whether it's a real opposite of bystander. A bystander is a person who does nothing when faced with a traffic accident; a crime; a wrong or a crime. We're often talking about dangerous situations. Or are we talking mo
  5. fred8033
    All things aside ... just a verbage issue ... the term Upstander is junk. Shakespeare would weep. ... It sounds like a committee met repeatedly to pick a rallying word, but had to pick something. So, they chose upstander.
  6. fred8033
    #1 Purpose of MBs ??? ... Going tangential. Not directly on this MB. I agree with "...there is a ton..." ... I fear this is yet another where BSA does a light weight, cheap, shallow introduction to a topic done much better in school and church. ... Scouting has historically been reactionary to society trends. Think STEM. Think the 1970s new scouting program that moved away from outdoors. At this point, I'm a bit lost on purposes of rank requirements versus MBs. I used to think MBs were about either skills development or career exploration. Now, MBs seem like a disorganized dumping
  7. fred8033
    Ok. Thank you. No need for words such as "If you don't get it, you probably won't." Those words are ugly and mean. I understand your point. It's the personal connection of a heart felt apology. The human expression. ... I know I saw that during our SE's discussion and the discussion that followed between the SE and district leaders / unit leaders / CORs. He expressed everything you could express in a personal, heartfelt apology. It was painful. ... I'm sure other scout leader have experienced similar. In my post ... last night I asked the moderators to remove as it wasn
  8. fred8033
    It is a gambling game. I've read on SOLs to try to understand reasoning and laws. Some will open. Others, maybe in the longer term. Some will never open. Pennsylvania? ... Penn State abuse cases. I'm not sure they could honestly re-open SOLs without opening up for Penn State / government liability for most government institutions. I'm not sure the state would want to do that. Utah with LDS? Texas being very conservative? Other states that had open SOLs that expired years ago. Will they want to re-open yet again? I think it's a longer path to re-open SOLs.
  9. fred8033
    I understand and sympathize. "Voluntary" / "involuntary" is who filed the bankruptcy. It says debt can't be paid. It is not an easy or arbitrary business strategy. ... The current mess is a chicken and egg thing. Lawsuits pulled BSA into bankruptcy. Bankruptcy pulled more victims in. It's a mess. The trouble is viewing it as denying a day in court. BSA is speeding into a financial wreck, but others are asking to be heard before the course is changed. It doesn't work that way. The goal is to get cash into a trust for victim's benefit. I'm not sure another six mont
  10. fred8033
    "I'd be tempted to say then" ... that you also know the other adult lives in the same house and provides common care for the children. Most importantly, the mom knows this and has chosen this. ... Perhaps just ask for a simple handle written note from the mom. I'm flipping back and forth on this one.
  11. fred8033
    I'm not sure that is useful in this specific situation. I'd only ask him if you are asking the other parents. I really seems you need some simple guardianship form signed by the mother indicating she is granting the adult temporary guardianship of the child. There are web sites that can be used. Keep it simple. Most importantly, be open with the mom. You're not a business and you don't have your own lawyers. You are only trying to do right by the child and by the organization. The more I think about this ... I'm betting ... the mom has had to deal with this for other r
  12. fred8033
    Agreed. I really don't think there is a better side for most victims though. Some yes. Most no.
  13. fred8033
    Does anyone doubt this is a real bankruptcy? It will exit chapter 11 (reorg) or chapter 7 (liquidation). The pending legal fees alone are massive before even considering settlements and judgements. I truly believe a failed chapter 11 bankruptcy means liquidation. Liquidation means less for most survivors because of debt priorty. "Some" in open states may get more, but most just won.t Plus, lawsuits will restart and continue for years and be extremely expensive for all parties. It seems the best exit is a BSA only chapter 11 and soon. It reserves the most cash for victims; p
  14. fred8033
    This is a common challenge for many youth serving organizations. I volunteer at another (non-scouting) family based service program. When I started 15 years ago, family was defined by the mom and her kids; and a married husband if they had one. About ten year ago, it switched to more of a common law rule. If it was long-term, then it was family and this was for sheltering and parental oversight. So, my heart goes out to scouters answering this questions. Even married step-parents are not automatically legal guardians. Long-term married boy friends? It's almost like when ne
  15. fred8033
    At low levels. If the contribution amounts are kicked up, those without current or probably liability, ... would they stay in the agreement? I did not think all 250+ had agreed to contribute.
  16. fred8033
    Wow. Thank you. That is very helpful. Please forgive this view as it's just my thoughts. A great evil was done before. Now, we are doing another evil (charging future kids more) to pay for a past evil. This is just ugliness on top of ugliness. I guess it's like the old saying that when things get dirty, no one comes out clean.
  17. fred8033
    Good point LDS left. So Utah probably doesn't need as many camps. ... The question is whether the LCs in Utah have signed up for the agreement as I bet their SOLs won't re-open. That probably explains what I'm seeing in my state. Camps were less busy, but not way, way, way less. Camp usage by LDS in my state was far less than 10% of the campers. Far less. I'm betting it was between 2% and 5% at best. So it does not affect our state much. So, our council still needs the local camps and potentially could see a recovery in the coming future.
  18. fred8033
    Thank you. Wow. I did not make that connection. I still agree with my thoughts. I just did not think that future kids will be paying for this settlement. Wow. I really did not make that connection. I'm used to bankruptcy cases and income projects etc. I can see if more business comes that a bankruptcy agreement would adjust for that to avoid hiding probable future earnings. ... I just did not make the connection that the trust explicitly was funded by future kids signing up. ... Legally it sounds normal, but it just sounds wrong that a non-profit with a good cause would be penalized
  19. fred8033
    It is intellectually dishonest to argue 900,000 as the long term membership numbers. We just had a PANDEMIC. I remember. We had funerals this last year. We buried our friends. 2019 ... After 20 years of bad press and continual court battles and membership battles and recruiting challenges, etc, etc, etc, etc), 2019 was still 2 million members and 700,000+ volunteers. It is very conceivable if BSA can get past this final ugly hurdle and get past THIS CURRENT PANDEMIC, the program will recover. It is conceivable if BSA can fix it's marketing too, that it can successfully market
  20. fred8033
    Isn't that the negligence of the claimants lawyers? The victims should be pissed at their own lawyers too. So ... Which lawyer met the victim? Which lawyer invested time with the victim? Which lawyer incurred cost working with that SPECIFIC victim? (versus the overall case)
  21. fred8033
    Some posts are appearing with a red x in the lower right corner. Has a pull down with Hide All Signatures and Hide <user> Signatures. What does that mean? What is the effect?
  22. fred8033
    Ahhh ... Good point. My apologies. This question started a while ago. I should have re-read the original post. My apologies. The best you can do is make the issue known to your own unit and the district. Beyond that, there must be a reason for the other scout leader to brag. You could also make the council advancement director aware. It does seem strange to have a SM from another unit sign Eagle requirements for a scout in your troop. That is highly irregular. Not much you can do for the past. Not much you can do about the other scout leader's registration. BUT, you
  23. fred8033
    Public schools ... 15,000 in one year. 2018. https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/10/15/sexual-assault-k-12-schools/ Interesting ... we have the data because there is a governmental organization collecting the data. Go figure. https://ocrdata.ed.gov/ Sports sexual abuse https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6204631/ I'm trying to find the link to the numbers and the details. NPR had a great article earlier this year about coaches and sexual abuse. ... Including coaches IN THE LAST DECADE minimizing penetration incidents as boys will be boys
  24. fred8033
    Just wrong. Wrong.
  25. fred8033
    Yeah. Umm ... Can you provide a parallel example from other youth serving organizations? So BSA is hiding? ... show me youth serving organizations that are posting those numbers on their home page? Big Brothers and Big Sister has been used as an example. Send me their page doing this as an example. Or Newart, NY YMCA page showing the numbers. ??? ... or ... ??? This is not about YPT. This is about punishment and shaming and humiliation. This is an attempt to kill a program. Perhaps Ford dealership should list number of highway deaths and injuries. Heck, they made th
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