fgoodwin

Insignia Guide http://www.scouting.org/pubs/33066/ The Boy Scouts of America has always been a uniformed body. Its uniforms help to create a sense of belonging. They symbolize character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Wearing a uniform gives youth and adult members a sense of identification and commitment. This insignia guide presents detailed information to enable our members to wear the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions.

As I was reading, then posting this article, a question came to my mind. I understand why the Jewish school chose to relinquish its sponsorship of the unit due to BSA's policy on gay leaders. But I wonder if they are OK with BSA's policy of excluding atheists? I wish the reporter had asked that question -- it would be interesting to hear their views on that policy, and how that might affect their willingness to sponsor a unit (or not).

Community Day backs away from BSA over its gay policy http://www.pittchron.com/topstories.cfm?fullStory=true&articleID=1532 http://tinyurl.com/3cu4l3 By Toby Tabachnick Staff Writer After agreeing last spring to sponsor a Cub Scout pack at its facilities, Community Day has since rescinded its commitment because of the Boy Scouts of America's (BSA) policy barring avowed homosexuals from being scout leaders. BSA believes that homosexual conduct "is not compatible with the aims and purposes of Scouting and that a known or avowed homosexual does not present a desirable role model for the youth in the Scouting program," according to its Web site. "We were approached last spring about having a pack at school," said Avi Baran Munro, head of school. Although leadership at Community Day was aware of the BSA's policy regarding homosexuals at the time, "when we inquired, we understood that wouldn't impact our local experience," she continued. "We probably understood that wrong. We probably should have done more investigating." "[Community Day] was informed of the policy by the Boy Scouts of America with regard to homosexual leaders," said C.W. Kreimer, organizer of the proposed Cub Scout pack, and chair of the Jewish Committee on Scouting, Greater Pittsburgh Council. "I never indicated to Mrs. Munro that this policy would be any different on a local level." Because local scout troops are members of the national organization, they are mandated to follow BSA's national policies, said Mike Surbaugh, scout executive for the Greater Pittsburgh Council. "There is no local policy [on homosexual participation]." The way the policy is employed is "similar to the military: don't ask, don't tell; we don't inquire," he continued. "We respect people's personal privacy. It's not our business. We are not an investigative agency." The restriction on homosexual participation is limited to avowed homosexuals being registered as troop leaders, Surbaugh noted. "We would encourage a gay parent to participate with his son," by joining the troop for meetings and events, he said. "I know of many gay parents who have sons in the program." BSA is a private membership group, and therefore is protected by the Constitution in its rights to establish and maintain standards of membership. Community Day announced the formation of the Cub Scout pack in a flyer to parents in September. It also hosted a sign-up night on Sept. 25. About 10 boys signed up and paid the fees at that time, said Kreimer, and about five additional families expressed interest. "Once we got started," Munro said, "dozens of families were concerned because of the discriminatory policies of the Boy Scouts." Still, Community Day invited the Boy Scouts to set up a climbing wall at a carnival on school grounds on Oct. 7. During the carnival, Mikal Nilsen and his partner Alan Crawford, Community Day parents, distributed flyers reading "National Jewish Committee on Scouting-Boy Scouts of America Discriminate." "We showed her (Munro) the flyer and she said 'You have every right to [distribute it],' " Nilsen said. When he found out that Community Day was sponsoring a Cub Scout pack, Crawford called the district division for BSA. "I asked how would the rules apply to a child who has two dads? How would you feel if my son wanted to be involved?" Crawford said. "I was told he'd be completely welcome." He then inquired if he, an open homosexual, could hold a leadership position in the Cub Scouts. He was told no. "I reported that to the school the Monday or Tuesday after the carnival," Crawford said. Community Day has a policy of nondiscrimination, Munro said. "We learned more about it [the BSA policy] after we agreed to it, and after we got more information, we realized this would be in violation of our nondiscrimination policy." That policy states that Community Day "does not discriminate on the basis of gender, race, color, sexual orientation or national or ethnic origin in the administration of its educational policies ... activities or other school administered programs." "When we learned that a Community Day family would not be able to participate locally in a leadership position, we decided we couldn't continue to sponsor it at our school," Munro said. She made the decision after consulting with Community Day's board president and the administrative team. "A vote wasn't required," she said. Reform Jewish leaders have long recommended that parents withdraw their children from BSA membership, and that congregations end their sponsorship of scout troops. "To my mind, this is a question about Jewish values, and how we will define ourselves in our community," said Rabbi Aaron Bisno, a Community Day board member. "This is not a question about the good works the Boy Scouts provide. It's a question about the type of community we want to create." Not all agree. "I am saddened by the policy decision at Community Day," wrote Rabbi Joseph Prouser, vice chair for programming of the National Jewish Committee on Scouting, in an open letter to the leaders and educators at Community Day. "I am saddened because of the opportunities for Jewish learning, personal growth, and spiritual enrichment which Community Day students have been deprived." While not everyone on the National Jewish Committee on Scouting agrees with the BSA policy regarding homosexuals, said Prouser, "they see a greater good which should not be negated by this one debate. ... Those students would go through scouting and never be touched by this policy." Kriemer saide "What I am most concerned about is the fact that instead of taking a position where [Community Day] could be a voice for change - as many rabbis in the Conservative and Reform movements advocate, [Community Day] has chosen to prevent their students from being enriched by all of the positives that Scouting brings." "This would have been an opportunity for Community Day students to have positive peer pressure," Kreimer said. He is now looking for a new venue for the Cub Scout pack. -- Toby Tabachnick can be reached at ttabachnick@pittchron.com

National Supply used to offer a hat press (that's where I ordered mine, together with a plastic cover for bad weather) but I don't find it listed on their webpage -- you might call them and ask if they still offer one: 800-323-0736

John, I've seen Scouters in my local Council wearing a CO-specific patch in the position above the right pocket normally reserved for Jambo patches. The particular Scouter I'm thinking of is the COR for this unit, sponsored by an American Legion post. According to him, the Legion (maybe just the local post, I don't think he meant to imply it was national Legion policy) has mandated all members of its units wear that patch in that position, regardless of what the Insignia Guide or Inspection Sheet says. And here I thought COs agreed to conduct their Scouting programs in accordance with BSA policy . . .

I've seen many crossovers and AOL presentations that involved an OA dance team. No two dance teams are alike, but I would caution Cub Packs to be sure the dance team understand the time limits you want them to observe. The last AOL I saw involved a dance that part of a huge B&G banquet which included a magic act, den awards, adult awards, etc. The B&G ran almost two hours because they packed too much into the agenda and the OA dance ran far longer than the 5-10 minutes allotted in the program.

Our troop (over 100 families; about 40-50 boys active on any particular troop activity) uses patrol level scribes, QMs and CAs and those positions wear the patch and that duty qualifies for POR for Star, Life & Eagle. Because our troop is so big, if we limited the PORs to a single QM for the entire troop, to a single CA for the entire troop, one scribe, etc. (in addition to the elected offices, of course) some boys might go five years without a POR and thus be disqualified from rank advancement. I'm as much a supporter of following BSA policy to the letter as anybody, but in this case, I think what our troop is doing is in the best interest of the boys.

National Family Week: Nov 18-24 Sam Wiley, an Indianapolis teacher and school administrator, started National Family week in 1968 as a means to provide Americans with an opportunity to promote strong families. Legislation was passed to have the week of Thanksgiving recognized nationwide as National Family Week. Please note that the Boy Scouts of America is listed as an official "National Partner" of NFW: Here is a link to BSA's 2006 press release re: NFW: This November 19 through 25 [those were the 2006 dates; for 2007, the week is Nov 18-24], the Boy Scouts of America will recognize National Family Week by encouraging Scouts and their families to get active in giving back to their community together - as a family. Boy Scout units across the country will incorporate family bonding and community service in the weeks preceding the Thanksgiving holiday. For example, seven councils in southern California have coordinated their annual "Scouting for Food" food drive, collecting canned goods throughout the community to donate to food banks throughout California during a time of critical need. Committed to "helping people at all times," the BSA has provided more than 3.8 million service hours through projects such as Scouting for Food since 2004.

Thanx, John. I''ll be on the lookout.

Sugarcreek Twp. teen gets ''God'' back on certificates http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2007/10/16/ddn101707flagohio.html http://tinyurl.com/2522oe By Whitney Boyd Contributing Writer Wednesday, October 17, 2007 WASHINGTON While many Carroll High School students hustled to classes Tuesday, 17-year-old Andrew Larochelle was in Washington, D.C., celebrating a victory in his battle against government censorship. The controversy started last month when Larochelle requested an inscription on the certificate accompanying a flag he had asked to have flown over the U.S. Capitol with a personal message to his grandfather, an Army veteran and devout Catholic. The high school junior requested that the certificate say, "This flag was flown in honor of Marcel Larochelle, my grandfather, for his dedication and love of God, Country and family." But the acting architect of the Capitol censored "God" from the request, leaving Larochelle and his family confused. "I couldn''t believe that the government would place a ban on religious reference when our nation was founded on Christian values," he said. "It just didn''t make sense." Larochelle of Sugarcreek Twp. and his father contacted U.S. Rep. Mike Turner''s office, pleading for an immediate change to the policy that censored "God" from any certificate request. Turner, R-Centerville, responded to the Larochelles by condemning the Capitol staff for its refusal to print Christian references. "Our nation''s capitol contains many religious references including ''In God We Trust'' inscribed in both the House and State chambers," Turner wrote in a letter of complaint to President Bush. A week later, Turner introduced the "Andrew Larochelle God, family and Country Act of 2007." In response, last Thursday, the acting architect''s office announced it was dropping the policy that prohibited "God" from being inscribed on certificates, leaving the final decision to individual lawmakers. On Tuesday, the Larochelle family traveled to Washington so Turner could present them with the corrected flag certificate. "I''m no one special, I''m just another 17-year-old that saw something that wasn''t right," Larochelle said "This is a big victory for all of us."

I thought I heard several months ago something about OLN (now Versus) running an outdoor series about the Boy Scouts. I''ve searched the channel listings and searched the Versus website but can''t find anything about this. Does anyone know anything about Boy Scouts on Versus?

ditto Joni4TA''s post

Nature brings man closer to God http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-relig_wilderness_07sep07,0,1483586.story http://tinyurl.com/32gkmv A dog-sledding adventure turned into a spiritual one for an Evanston man, and now he leads wilderness excursions for all faiths By Ruth Fuller Special to the Tribune September 7, 2007 Standing on a frozen lake in the Boundary Waters of northern Minnesota, on a February day with temperatures at 25 degrees below zero, John Lionberger couldn''t understand why he suddenly felt like he was being bathed in warmth. The Evanston man was on a weeklong dog-sledding excursion with Outward Bound, a 50th birthday gift from his wife, Jane, in 1995. As a lifelong agnostic, or "borderline atheist who was hedging his bets," Lionberger said he did not want to believe he was feeling God''s presence. Lionberger, then a successful advertising sales executive, would spend the next 18 months denying he had been visited by God. "An agnostic doesn''t give up his disbelief easily," Lionberger said. The thought that he should enroll in a seminary kept creeping into his mind, but he asked himself: What church would have a man who not only did not know what he believed in, but also had a deep distrust, even disdain, for organized religion? Lionberger was sitting in the Evanston Public Library one day in 1997 thinking about the message when he mouthed the words: "What am I going to do with this?" "You idiot, you are going to take people into the wilderness for what you got," Lionberger said God replied. "It was weird but not threatening," Lionberger said, still a bit embarrassed to tell people that he heard God''s voice. "It seemed so absolutely right, I felt it was something I had to do." After a stint at the Chicago Theological Seminary in Hyde Park, Lionberger founded Renewal in the Wilderness, a non-profit, interfaith wilderness ministry that takes men and women out of their normal environments for one to eight days of wilderness travel to experience and discuss their relationships with God. The canoeing and camping trips, he said, are "an intentional blend of the spiritual and the physical, the serious and the fun." Lionberger leads four or five excursions a year to the Boundary Waters in Minnesota, the Kishwaukee River in Illinois, the Wisconsin River in Wisconsin, the Yellowstone River in Montana and the Rio Grande in Texas. "The nice thing about John''s trips is that they are open to people of various faiths," said Rob Davis, 54, a publishing executive from Evanston who took a weekend trip with Lionberger in 2005 on the Wisconsin River. Raised Catholic, Davis said he no longer belongs to an institutional religion but felt he fit in well with the group anyway. "We were able to share our experiences without getting into the nitty-gritty and fighting over religion," he said. Lionberger said his time at the seminary, affiliated with the United Church of Christ, allowed him to ask his questions and address his doubts about religion. As he did so, his wife began studying at Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary in Evanston. Jane Lionberger, who was raised in a devout Presbyterian family, said she struggled with her own faith even before she met her husband. But after the couple had their children, Annie, 27, and Jack, 21, she said she decided it was time to return to God. "I think John witnessed my struggle with spirituality and that really drew him in," she said. Jane Lionberger is now an associate minister at Kenilworth Union Church, a non-denominational Christian church in Kenilworth. But when John Lionberger finished school in 2001, he decided not to become an ordained minister until he could work through his issues about organized religion. "I knew that organized religion does a lot of good, but I chose to focus on the ills of the world brought on by organized religion and I was quite sure I didn''t want to be a part of it," he said. Lionberger is head chaplain at the Three Crowns Park retirement community in Evanston. On Sundays, when he is not preaching there, Lionberger said he attends the First Congregational Church of Wilmette. Though he continues to wrestle with concerns about organized religion, Lionberger said he has concluded that religion was created by humans and is thus understandably flawed. He hopes to be ordained in the United Church of Christ, a denomination he chose in part because of its history of social action, including the ordination of women, African-Americans and homosexuals. Lionberger said he doesn''t regret the years he has spent questioning religion and the existence of God. In fact, if he could counsel his younger, agnostic self, he would tell himself that doubt is good, he said. "Doubt is the platform for faith," he said. "I would tell myself to doubt all you want, but be open to other possibilities. Open your heart, because the heart has a deeper universal knowledge if you listen to it." In June, Lionberger published a book, "Renewal in the Wilderness: A Spiritual Guide to Connecting with God in the Natural World." In it he explores teachings about wilderness in the writings of various religions -- including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism -- and discusses how a person can grow through shared and individual experiences of being present in nature. "Maybe the wilderness experience is one we can all share and speak about without shedding blood," he said. But though he certainly recommends it, Lionberger doesn''t tell people they have to go into the wilderness to commune with God. "You can do this walking around the block or at your neighborhood park," he said. "As long as you go with an open heart and mind, you can connect with God anyplace with nature." For more information, visit http://www.renewalinthewilderness.org

Nick: I''ve been trying to post this article for several days, but the server has been down -- thanx for getting it on the Forums. As in the AHG example, I like the idea of people forming alternative groups, rather than suing BSA to make them change their membership policies. I think this is a much more contructive approach, provides alternatives and choice, and let''s face it, it provides some competition. In my mind, those are all Good Things.

CubScoutMom25, welcome to the Forums. If you plan to march in uniform in the parade, there shouldn''t be an issue. If you plan to be in costumes, I would think there''d be no issues, as long as the costumes are tasteful and appropriate. I don''t recall there being any specific BSA regs covering this situation, but I could be mistaken, and if so, hopefully someone will correct me.

Lisabob, one more thing. Its one thing for a college professor or HS teacher to engage their students in a debate -- its quite another to expect middle school students to be able to hold a position contrary to that being taught by the authority figure in the classroom.(This message has been edited by fgoodwin)

Lisabob, like anyone else, you have a right to your opinions. For me, the issue isn''t that your opinion may be different than mine; the issue is, whether it is "good idea" for a teacher to advocate a particular position with a captive audience. I would hope that you would agree that such advocacy is not a good idea. Alternatively, suppose you had a child in the care of a teacher who held an opinion different than yours -- would you want that teacher advocating their position with your child? I don''t think teachers should advocate any position, regardless of their personal opinion. And of course discussions can occur without teacher advocacy -- it happens everyday in debate.

Pack212Scouter: welcome to the Forums.

This article refers to research by Robert Putnam re: the dwindling levels of public participation in club-type activities like bowling leagues and Scout troops. His research indicates the dwindling membership levels are systemic, and not isolated to any particular kind of group, or because of anything the groups themselves are doing. I thought it was an interesting take, given the many discussions re: BSA membership levels vs. its membership policies. The same thing is happening in Europe and Canada, which can help explain why Scouts Canada is also losing members, even though it doesn''t have the same membership policies as BSA.

In lonely U.S., it''s time to "reinvent" community BY HEATHER A. DAVIS For most of the 20th century, says Bowling Alone author Robert Putnam, America was a nation of joiners. From 1945 to 1965, the Lions and Elks Clubs, the Boy Scouts and bowling leagues nationwide saw a notable increase in membership. That leveled off and began to decline toward the end of the century, when people also started holding fewer dinner parties, eating together less often and getting together for card games and other social activities less frequently. This matters, says Putnam, who was at Penn Feb. 6 to give the Goldstone Forum lecture, because these social networks have great benefits for our health, well-being and communities. Social networks add years to our lives, provide connections for job-hunters and encourage us to bond with those who are like us, or bridge the divide with individuals who are different. Social capital, said Putnam, comprises the collective value of all of these networks and the inclinations that arise from these networks to do things for one another. Places that have social capital are, in general, nicer places to live, said Putnam. They are also more healthy for children. In communities with a great amount of social capital, he said, there are lower rates of teen pregnancy, better education outcomes, lower crime rates and more honest government. Putnam, who is the Peter and Isabel Malkin Professor of Public Policy at Harvard, explained that membership in clubs is a reliable way to estimate the rise and fall of social capital, and this was the approach he used in his landmark book, Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community. In databases of consumer preferences and habits, he discovered that about 23 percent of Americans attended public meetings in 1973; by the end of the century, that number had dropped to 10 to 11 percent. He found similar falloffs for attendance at dinner parties and club meetings. At the Feb 6 event Putnam tested the civic pulse of the room, asking how many in the audience had participated in community meeting or civic activities. When a majority of the audience raised its hands, Putnam joked, This is probably the most civic room in America. At his prompting, audience members suggested culprits that have harmed social capital, including urban sprawl, longer working hours and television. Putnam pointed out that, on average, Americans are actually working fewer hours, though since women entered the workforce in the 1960s men havent picked up the slack. Television, said Putnam, is awful for social connections. Most Americans watch Friends rather than having friends. Audience members asked Putnam about the effect of the iPod on social capital ([it is] technology that allows us to get exactly what we wantalone) and the importance of brick and mortar buildings on communities. Putnam noted the rapid expansion of the media room in home design, as well as the migration of the porch from the front to the back of the house and the virtual abandonment of the living room. What I believe is, it matters a lot, said Putnam. Putnam also discussed some of the social capital success stories included in his latest book, Better Togetherabout organizations that are trying to connect people again. Putnam discovered that people joined Saddleback, the mega-church in Lake Forest, Calif., because of two clear organizing principles: the church has a very low barrier to entry and small niche groups exist within the huge, 30,000 member organization to anchor members in the larger community. We need to reinvent newer forms of connection, said Putnam. Last time, the answer was clubs. [This time] the answer may not be clubs.

I think current events can and should be discussed in class. That''s not the point -- the point is teacher advocacy of one position over another. The students can advocate all they want -- after all, its them whose thinking we want to stimulate. But as an authority figure in the classroom, I don''t think the teacher should show bias for (or against) either side.

Hunt writes: "I tend to discount the third-hand account of the supposedly inflamatory statements by the teacher." And given how the popular press often mangles Scouting terms and how the program is applied, how Scouting is organized, etc., I think you''re properly cautious to take a reporter''s account with a grain of salt. OTOH, when the principal and ass''t superintendent express "shock" at the letter, and assuming they know more about the curriculum & syllabus than we (or the reporter) do, I would say that certainly is reason to ask just what was that teacher thinking?

I thought this was an interesting approach, although I disagree with the teacher''s methods. I''d like to ask that teacher, as an "independent member of the global community", just which government-run school did he propose to work for? Which government-run education system would allow him to send home such an interesting assignment? It would certainly make for an interesting civics lesson (Jay Bennish, anyone?).

Teacher says inflammatory letter was part of lesson plan By GREG WELTER - Staff Writer Chico Enterprise-Record Article Launched:09/13/2007 12:11:43 AM PDT Bidwell Junior High School administrators said a letter sent home with students in an eighth-grade class Tuesday was a good idea for a history lesson, with bad execution. The letter, which appeared to ask parents to renounce their U.S. citizenship, prompted phone calls to the school from several irate recipients. Principal Joanne Parsley said teacher Mike Brooks never intended to have parents sign the letters, or forward them on to President Bush, to whom they are addressed. "It was a well-intended lesson that didn''t shake out too well," she said, adding that Brooks would not be subject to disciplinary action. Reached at home, the teacher said his U.S. History class is studying the Declaration of Independence, and he decided to write a letter putting the document into modern language. His intention, he said, was to send it home for parents to review, and possibly discuss with their children. He concluded the letter with "After careful consideration of the facts of our current situation, I have decided to announce to everyone that I am no longer a citizen of the United States, but a free and independent member of the global community." "The point was, I wanted to ask parents if they would sign such a letter if conditions that existed prior to the Revolution were happening now," he said. "I just wanted to start a discussion." Parsley said Brooks sent the letter out with no explanation or disclaimer, and was relying on students to tell their parents it was part of a lesson plan. She said several parents reacted adversely to the letter, but a few sent them back signed. Chico resident Michael Hill said he was told by his daughter, Kaytlen Hill, 13, that the assignment was to have parents sign the letter and return it to class Wednesday. "The lesson being taught in class was that the U.S. kidnaps innocent people and takes them to Cuba, where they are kept indefinitely and tortured," Hill said he learned through his daughter. When Hill asked her if Brooks mentioned Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. imprisons terrorist suspects, he said his daughter replied "yes." He said his daughter broke into tears when she talked about Brooks mentioning illegal wiretaps and other surveillance directed against innocent people. "I think I was more irritated by the classroom discussion than the letter," he said. Brooks said he was trying to establish a parallel between attitudes during Revolutionary times, and those of today. "When it was written, the Declaration was considered an inflammatory document," Brooks said. "There were a lot of loyalists around then." The teacher said the letter led to some "wonderful discussion" on Wednesday. Parsley and Chico Unified School District Assistant Superintendent Bob Feaster said they were shocked when they first saw the letter, which had gone out with no administrative approval, but wanted to give Brooks a chance to explain. Parsley said he came up with good arguments for the unusual lesson plan, but would do things a little differently next time. Today, Parsley said, the teacher will send another letter home with students, explaining exactly what the first letter was about, and assuring them that it was only for classroom discussion. Parsley said she doesn''t believe Brooks has any political agenda to advance. Hill contended the lesson put forth by the teacher is inappropriate for middle-school students. His daughter reportedly told him the letter was an assignment, and she''d be in trouble if he didn''t sign it. "How many did sign it, maybe without reading or understanding it?" Hill said. On Wednesday, Hill said he requested his daughter be put in another history class, which was done immediately. He said Parsley responded to his phone call promptly Wednesday morning. She promised that Hill, and possibly some other upset parents, would get a personal letter of apology from the school.

gonzo, if you think what eamonn wrote is psychobabble, that''s fine -- I was just asking him to amplify his point. I''d still like to hear from him what he thinks it means to be a boy.