Eamonn

Cub Scouts wear the blue shirt they do not have the option of wearing the tan shirt with blue loops as is posted on that page. Mr Walton /Black Eagle could have severed in any and many positions, this doesn't make him right. The mention of some memo that could have been wrong to start with doesn't make him right. Even if this was ever true, which I'm sure it never was. It it not the case today. If you want the facts about the BSA there can be no better source then the publications and web site of the BSA. In the past I have found the people who work in the National Office very helpful when I have phoned and asked questions. They have at times not known all the answers immediately, but have never failed to get back to me. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I have just read the page that the link led me to. I see that some of the things that are posted on it are just plain out and out wrong. You would do much better to go to the BSA web sites. Or buy the book. Eamonn

While even the best troops with the best programs will or might lose the odd Scout. The troops with poor and weak programs will lose a lot more. I agree that there are Lads who don't like the outdoor program and might leave Scouting because of this reason.However being as most of our Boy Scout Membership originates from the Cub Scouting program, these Lads have been exposed to the great outdoors. I also question if the troop is holding outdoor events every month, how long does it take a little fellow to work out that he doesn't like it? How often do we meet Lads that went to the troop down the road and didn't like it? They have all sorts of reasons why they didn't like it. I would go back to the idea that you only get one chance to make a first impression. Bring a little fellow into a troop meeting that has a bunch of Merit Badge classes going on, no fun, no plans for the future and I would be surprised if he wants to join. If we are using the New Scout Patrol, we might want to break these guys in slowly. Camping at sites that have flush toilets and so on till they get used to the idea of all the other stuff. Many of our Scouts struggle with having too much to do. I just went over all the application forms for the Lads who are going to attend the Jamboree. Over half of the Scouts are in one kind of band or another. Many are active in their churches, play sports and are involved in other extra curricular activities. Sure we do lose a few of these kind of Scouts. However most of these sorts of Scouts are the type that they aren't happy unless they are rushing from one activity to the next. As Leaders we need to understand that there are times when these Scouts just won't be around. We need to be flexible and understanding. Most of all we have to be ready to welcome them back with open arms when they are done doing whatever it was they were doing.So many adults have this "Them or Us" mentality. They force these Lads to chose. While life would be a lot easier if every Scout attended every meeting and turned up for every activity. We know that this isn't going to happen, so fighting it is not worth while.These Lads are good Scouts, they miss out on a lot of the fun that the troop is having in their absence,maybe they miss out on opportunities to advance which can lead them to become despondent. Surely it is our job to help them get over it and make sure that they feel that the troops is still theirs and the right place to be. The Lads that leave because they state that Scouting is lame or stupid. I think we need to look at the program and see if there is any truth in what they say. I have been around enough troops to know that there is a lot of truth in what they are saying. Very often when a boy quits it is because we haven't laid a good enough foundation. When the Scout joined did someone go and visit him and his parents at home? Do the adult leaders know the family and have they formed a relationship with the family? When the Lad missed a couple of troop meetings, did anyone contact the Scout? Did anyone take the time to revisit the family? I'm sorry I have never to date rejoiced when a Lad has quit Scouting. In fact I feel very hurt and that we have failed him. We are here to serve the kids and hopefully help them become adults who will make good choices over their lifetimes. We can't do that if the boy or girl isn't in our programs. If getting them back into the program means bending over back-wards, then that's what we have to do. There are a few kids that the methods that we use won't work for or with. These are very few. It is one thing if a Lad comes to a few meetings and decides that Scouting is not for him, but when we lose a Lad who has been in the troop for a while we need to look at what we are doing wrong and pull out all the stops to get him back. Eamonn.

I think that I have seen them advertised in the pages at the back of one of the Scouting Magazines. But I might not be right. You could do a Google on head shrinkers, but that sounds as if it might be painful. Also I'm unsure what the BSA policy on head shrinking is. (Joke.) Eamonn

My heart goes out to them poor parents. Over this summer we have lost four local teens to what are supposed to be off road or all terrain vehicles. Our house is out in the sticks, we have a large backyard, a little over seven acres. Next-door we have two museums. One an antique farm equipment museum which isn't open very often. Only a few weekends over the summer. It covers a little over sixty acres. The other is the West Overton museum. Birthplace of Henry Clay Frick. Henry doesn't draw much of a crowd. They have about ten acres. OJ, has wanted one of these vehicles for the longest times. We have the room and it would be OK if he didn't go anywhere that he wasn't supposed to. Of course we don't live anywhere near any of his friends. So the temptation would be there to go and visit them. I offered to buy him a horse, but he turned me down. While as I say my heart really does go out to the parents and I don't think blame of any sort can be attached, I can't help thanking the Big Fellow upstairs for not allowing OJ to have one of these things. I will admit that there were times when I nearly did give in. May this little Lad Rest in peace and may the good Lord comfort his parents and family. Eamonn.

We are still selling Trails End popcorn. But from what I hear they (Trails End) Are very picky about where and when they will deliver. Last year in an effort to save on delivery charges we had all the popcorn delivered to one site and then we took the cases to each district pick-up site. I don't know but maybe this has something to do with it? Service as well as profitability counts. Eamonn.

Recruiting Boy Scouts is tough. Boys of this age have far more say in what activities they want to be involved in and in some cases parents set a limit on how many activities a boy can be involved in. By far the best way to get new boys to join a troop is peer to peer recruiting. Which in most cases is a result of a healthy program that the Lad who is the Scout wants to share with his pals. We used to hold a Scout Fair in a local hall. All the troops gave a demonstration of some sort and Lads of Scout age were invited. As Fog has posted the attendance wasn't that great. We have asked Scoutmasters to go into the 5th and 6th Grades and do a boy talk and then invite the Boys to an open house. Much as I hate to be pessimistic, I think that at times the goals set for membership chairpersons are a little high. Sure we can do a School Sign up for Cub Scouts and come away with several hundred Cub Scouts. But it this is not the case in Boy Scouts. Most troops will only get two or three Scouts. This lack of numbers leads to the Scout Leadership thinking "Is it worth it?" Still this is not a good enough reason not to give it a whirl. Getting the Troops to buy into the idea? We start by telling the troops that Flyer's and people are going into the Schools at the same time asking if they want to go into the school that feeds their troop. We ask them for the date of their Open House and make them aware that tapes about high adventure facilities the summer camp promotion video are available. Working with the Commissioner Staff we get them to "Work On" the Troop Leadership and let them know that the Unit Commissioner and some of the "District Types" would really appreciate an invite to the open house. At times we have taken the Scout Exec. with us. All of this is to let everyone know that we are taking this very seriously and we want it to work. We have also had prizes for the Scouts that bring a pal along with special patches and hats. If this fails we look to the Membership Chair and pray that they keep having boys!! - Good Luck with the new little one. (I nearly posted little fellow.) Eamonn

Ditto to what FScouter posted. Eamonn.

Any song that the "Black Eyed Peas" have recorded would seem to suit. Unless they wanted dessert then it would have to be something the Bananarama had done. Of course if those wanting seconds were adults they could sing "Come And Get It."(Either the Badfinger or Beatles version.) Eamonn.

As I have posted before back home summer camp was a two week summer experience. We camped all over England and Wales. Had a really good Summer camp in Ireland, camping near the Lakes of Killarney. We spent all winter making Fiberglass Kayaks. We camped at the International Scout Center at Kandersteg. We used the Scout Center just outside Rotterdam a lot. That is neat as you are camping at 55 feet below sea level. There was a troop from the Council that made the cover of the US Scouting Magazine a couple of years back they camped on the beach. They said dealing with the sand which got into everything was a real pain. Eamonn.

Hey if we let all the Scouts tie dye their shirts and paint the bus, the 2005 Jamboree could be a real Happening. Think a real psychedelic paint job for the bus with Eamonn and the Merrymakers on the side with Further as the destination. Heck we could have hip poetry reading on the trip. A real cool trip man. Eamonn

Councils can be put on probation for a period of time or until they can correct what was wrong or reach certain goals. While this doesn't happen everyday it is not unheard of. I would warn you that posting here-say or rumors on the world wide web is not such a good idea.Especially looking at the last paragraph that you posted. What you are doing might be seen as un scout-like behavior and could be grounds for the Scout Exec. Or the Regional Staff to remove you from Scouting. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

At one time in England the nickname for most Scoutmasters was Skip or Skipper.Many an upset Scout changed it to Kipper. Eamonn

I know at times I allow my feels to get in the way of being Political Correct. I am not sure what the difference between a Hispanic and a Latino is. I have no idea what the difference between being black and being colored is.Most of this is ignorance on my part. I have often wondered why in the USA we have Afro-Americans, but back home I have yet to meet an Afro-Anglo. I do however respect all of these different peoples and I think that the diversity of the USA is one of its biggest strengths. I hope that some of the stuff that they bring to us and I include myself with them will never be lost. I love the smell and taste of a good curry. Spending a Sunday with a Portuguese family when one of their kids is making their first holy communion is a Sunday well spent. A Saturday morning in the Strip District of Pittsburgh with stores and foods from every corner of the world is hard on the wallet but Oh the taste. I worked my way through college working in a hardware store owned by a little Jewish fellow. A nicer man I never met. I agree with the Gentleman from New Jersey and what he has posted. PC may now be old hat, but respect will never go out of style. Eamonn.

Scoutmaster to SPL: "I have to see the Ranger, will you guys be all right putting up the tents?" SPL to Scoutmaster: "Sure." The SPL sees that all the tents are erected correctly and in a timely manner. The Scoutmaster returns and thinks: 1/ Isn't it nice that I can Trust these Scouts to do the job. 2/ The Scouts managed to get all these tents up followed the leave no trace idea, they didn't waste time or damage the tents. Boy these Scouts are Thrifty. 3/ The Scouts are all happy to have worked as teams and got the job done. They really are a Cheerful group. 4/ The area is so neat and tidy. These Lads could be hanging out at the Mall with bad company. These Lads are a Clean cut group.It takes a lot of guts for them to not hang out with them other Lads they sure are Brave. 5/ Isn't it wonderful that I ask these Scouts to put up the tents and they do it. This a a group of Obedient Scouts. 6/ They really worked as teams and helped each other. 7/ The SPL even stopped to help the new Scout Patrol get their tents up. Isn't he a Kind Scout. I could go on. Eamonn

I happen to like nicknames a lot. I answer to a lot of different names. Both my brother and I call each other Mick. We have done so for as long as I can remember. His real name is John. OJ is OJ at home, his Grandmother does call him Oliver. (Named after Saint Oliver Plunket.) He gets Ollie, Ooge, Juice. When we named him we thought that when he got older he could choose if he wanted to be Oliver or be James. So far OJ seems OK with him. Finding out someones old nickname can be a lot of fun. My best friend who isn't a relation but OJ calls Uncle Mike and I normally call him by his last name confessed a year or so back that at school he was known as Bozo. He said it has something to do with football?? My Mother was always called Babs her real name was Mary-Alice and very often in Ireland the youngest child is called Babs or Babby she was the oldest. One that does puzzle me on this side of the pond is why John is Jack? Eamonn.

I am with OGE on this hazing thing. As I read this I couldn't help but think of Opera Man from Saturday Night Live and what he might sing? Some stuff is just fun and is a vital part of what we do. Sure there are groups of kids that would think nothing about singing "Food Glorious Food" in order to secure an extra helping of Jello. Done right this can be a lot of fun. Asking a Lad to sing as an act of penance is not fun for the Lad. Is asking him to sing as bad as other activities that an evil minded SPL or misguided Scoutmaster could inflict upon him? No, I feel sure that there are some really big nitwits out there. Many years back in the troop we went through a thing about nick-names. I got stuck with Big A, there was at the time a little Lad Amin he got stuck with Little A. There was also a real big Lad who got Podge. Podge loved his name and to this day still signs himself Podge when he writes to me. Sad to say there was a very small Lad who got Titch, he didn't like it, so we went back to calling him Jim (His name was James.) At no time was there ever any intent to hurt anyone or cause them any harm. If they said stop please don't do that, we stopped. Eamonn.

At first I thought that I would steer clear of this thread. Mainly because we have been there, done that and been there again. However in my opinion the BSA has a very clear policy on this, just like two deep leadership. I at this time do not see the policy being changed and would much rather spend my time discussing other topics. Eamonn.

Silver-Shark, I hear what you are saying and think I can see where you are coming from. I would hope that we as Leaders know the Scouts that we are leading.As such we have a good idea of the risk involved in whatever activity the group is attempting. Even when the group may be all for doing something, we can guide the Patrol leaders council into looking at the worst case scenario. If this is presented as a game it is different then the sing for the return of your property as the intend is to have fun. The singing thing is just a way of humiliating and the intent is to cause discomfort or embarrassment. We are no way in the business of making our youth feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. Even when the need to discipline a Scout is needed we go out of our way to look for positive reenforcement. Even a game of dodge ball has the poor guy who is hit first or most often, thats part of the game unless everyone gangs up on one player then the game stops being a game. Eamonn

No Dan I find that hard to believe. But if you say so I will take your word for it. My little Sister is big on causes. One of them there veggie munching left wingers. I will have to ask her if there is a BKTTC (Be Kind To Trash Campaign.) Out there somewhere. I am shocked to think that some bat swinging person is bashing the heck out of this poor harmless trash that until it became trash never done anyone any harm. Yes Sir it is time for the Trash Lovers of the World to Unite. Eamonn. (Sorry Dan.)

There has been in the past some discussion about Scouting being a safe haven. I like the idea that it is. Scouts and Scouting should be a place where no one gets harmed in body or in spirit. I have been informed by other wiser men then I that Scouting is no longer a Safe Haven and the new term is Controlled Risk. Much as I prefer the Safe Haven, in this case both will work. If everyone knows all the rules of the game and agree to play by these rules, and the information includes the consequences.The game should be OK. However they should be allowed to opt out if they don't agree. Many of us have been around the Little Lad who gets knocked out in the Pinewood Derby race and gets upset. For many of these little fellows it is their first taste of ever not winning.Many Packs are now not running a Tiger Cub race with winners and losers, and are giving all these little fellows a participation prize of some sort. As adults we know that we can never be winners all the time and we can't be good at everything. Many of the activities we offer all of our youth members have some element of risk. We as adults do at times have to decide if the youth we have with us at that meeting or that camp are ready for that activity. I have been with a group of Scouts who would go out of their way to be caught with "Suzzie." They would relish the idea of wearing their shirts back-wards or walking he plank. I have also been with a group of Scouts who would be mortified if they were caught with "Suzzie." I would hope that as a Scoutmaster the Patrol Leaders would really know the Scouts in their Patrol and working through the PLC, this information would guide the troops decision as to if we wanted to play the game or not. If they decide not to play there should be no ill consequences from anyone. Eamonn

I have never had a problem with a thread finding its own course. We all seen a very good example of that happening in the thread about name tags on personal gear leading into a discussion on hazing. The ideas for the most part were real and the people had feelings on both sides. It is however a shame when the thread gets lost because someone has started a discussion about something in which there was and is no truth in from the get go. Eamonn.

I have never seen the Muppet movie. I have seen the original Disney The Jungle Book. In this movie there is a scene with three or maybe four vultures? On a tree. These birds sound like they come from Liverpool and a very famous band that came from that neck of the woods. The dialog goes something like: Vulture #1 "What shall we do?" Vulture #2 "I don't know." Vulture #3 "What do you want to do?" Vulture #4 "I don't know." Vulture #1 "What shall we do?" And so it goes on. I love this movie and have used this clip in the past in training Patrol Leaders. There are times when we all hit this wall of not knowing what to do next. The danger is that we turn left when we should have gone right worse still we just keep going when we should use the time for taking stock and reflecting on where we have been. Eamonn.

Sounds as if there is going to be a lot of people from the forums at the Jambo. While due to people working different shifts in different areas we may not be able to all be at the same place at the same time. It would be nice if most of us could try and be in the same place at the same time, if only to put faces to the names, while others could just try and pop in at sometime for a chat. As yet I don't know our troop number, but I will be there with the troops from the Northeast Region. I'm thinking of maybe one evening when there isn't much going on. Eamonn.

I have no idea how we got to talking about the Guide lines for Web Sites. http://www.scouting.org/webmasters/faq/guidelines/#uws I will leave you to read it for yourself. But feel sure that when you do, you will find that yet again this is a storm in a teacup. I have to go now and sign the form from NOAC that gives my permission for the BSA to use images of my little cherub on the BSA web site or where ever. I have to sign it as he is not yet 18. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)