Eamonn

We saw OJ off at 4:30 AM. So if you see the guys from Wagion Lodge 6 tell them that I said Hi. Eamonn

I wish you all the luck in the world and welcome you to the forums. Eamonn,

I own an English Setter, who can point out his chair, his couch, his food bowl. When the property is covered with migrating Canadian snow geese he can point out that they are in his way. Both him and I have always been too busy to give activity uniforms much thought. He is busy sleeping and his chair and his couch are also mine, so I'm busy moving him. Eamonn.

Can't help thinking what a great project for a future Eagle Scout. If the dam is ever rebuilt.I am sorry for your loss. Last time I was home in London, the city park where I spent so many happy hours had changed. There are no kids in the area any more, due to the high cost of housing. So the swings were gone as was the paddling pool and giant slide. When I was a kid there was a group of us and this was our hang out. The park had a park keeper, who gave us heck for swinging to high or riding our bikes in the park or playing soccer on the cricket green. Oh to be a kid again... Eamonn.

While serving as Council Training Chair I went out of my way to promote the idea that people could cross district lines and take the course that they wanted /needed when it best suited them. I really went after some sort of "Standardized" training.The idea being that no matter where a participant took the course it would be the same course. At the start I went and visited each District Cub Scout Training and was I shocked. I have always been one to follow the syllabus and have used the syllabus as the "Only way to go." I didn't add to it or take away from it.I also have to admit that I found that the time alloted for most of the sessions is really tight. Over the course of my little tour I found that many of the districts were using the syllabus as a guide. Some of the districts were adding so much of something that was the trainers pet thing that parts of the syllabus just wasn't being covered. At times this pet thing which might or might not be part of the program acted as a distraction. One Trainer was really in love with "Cub Bucks." She spent over 30 minutes explaining how to make them, how to use them, what she awarded them for, what they might be awarded for and how they were redeemed. In the other thread someone mentioned Den Doodles. I have seen them take up as much time as the darn "Cub Bucks" did. One District had gone as far as making the Cub Scout Specific training into an all day training. Needless to say I wasn't very happy with all these changes and was surprised at how much resistance I met when I asked all the District Cub Scout Training Chairs. To just cover what was in the syllabus. I don't have a problem with a display table being set up with all this stuff on it and the staff explaining how it might work while there is a break. I would much rather see this stuff covered at a Pow Wow or Round Table meeting. These add on's are all well and good, but so many new leaders see this stuff and get the idea that these add on's are a vital and important part of the program. Many of these new leaders are already feeling that they are in above their head and are overwhelmed. Making a big deal about this stuff doesn't help, making a big deal about it and skipping or skimping parts of the syllabus is negligence on the part of the Trainer. Eamonn.

I was wondering why OJ was so keen on Scouting web sites. Eamonn

There can be no reason and there is no reason for holding a Scout back.It is wrong to do so and nothing will ever make it right. I kinda think that most Scoutmasters in their heart of hearts know that. I could be wrong. Why anyone would want to is beyond my comprehension. The goal is for them to stop holding Scouts back. If possible without too much fuss. Bug Old Chap, you are on the troop management committee. You and your fellow committee members really are in charge. If I were in yours shoes, which of course I'm not. Here is how I would play this hand. I would have a word with the committee chairman and suggest that the committee becomes trained. The training takes about three hours and if you contact your District Training Chairman, he or she ought to be able to arrange it. I would also have a word with the Troop Committee Chair about inviting your Unit Commissioner to attend your meetings. Unit Commissioners love to be invited anywhere at times they feel very unloved. They do really like coffee and cookies. I don't know if at your meeting if the troop advancement chair makes a report or not. If he does you might ask why Scouts are being held back? When the Unit Commissioner hears this he will be shocked and say how this can't be. If your advancement guy doesn't give a report it will be up to you to bring it up. I would do it very apologetically, making it sound that I was only bringing it up to save everyone from future embarrassment. To add to the drama I would add that I have heard that some parents now know that holding Scouts back is wrong and they now know that they can appeal this to the Council and even to the National Office.I of course would not mention that the parents that know this are myself and my wife. I would again add that I was only bringing this up for the good of the troop. If that fails, I would roll up a copy of the Scoutmaster Handbook and give the Scoutmaster a couple of good whacks with it.This might not help in reaching the goal. But it would make me feel a lot better. (Just Joking about the whacks - Even if it is a good idea!!) Eamonn.

Thanks KS. This was better then the back pages of Boy's Life. Eamonn.

I'm sorry jkhny you are wrong. Eamonn.

Hi Bug Welcome to the forums. While I agree with just about everything that the three wise men have posted: Get the material, read it and get whatever training is offered. The "That's the way we do it." is a really hard nut to crack. I used to warn people who had attended training's to not try and change everything at once.When I was a young keen and enthusiastic leader (Oh for the good old days) My poor Group Scout Leader (UK) spent half the time at leaders meetings telling me "Slowly, slowly catchee monkey." It used to drive me nuts. Some of these guys have been doing it wrong for so long they believe in their heart of hearts that they are doing it right. Some even believe that the program and the troop is theirs to do what they will with. Of course none of this makes what they are doing right and as OGE has said they are in fact doing the entire program a dis- service. He also said that they are well meaning. No one will ever know how many times I have had to bite my tongue as I travel around the Council and see Leaders who I know that know better doing things "Their Way". I at times drop hints. Rather then getting in their face and telling them outright that they are doing it wrong. More of a gentle nudge. You might do well to meet with the unit commissioner and explain your concerns. Telling him or her that you are not out to rock the boat but that know what is going on is not the way this game ought to be played. It is also important to not dwell on everything that is not working. Take time to look at the things that are working. Heck, we have units in our area that haven't seen a Lad advance in eons. Some Lads have two and three years with the troop and are still Tenderfoot.( Not in the district in which I serve.) Things could be worse. Eamonn.

I have a very good friend Biddle.Biddle and I have served on a few Wood Badge courses as staff members. He is a really great guy who loves to tell jokes and stories. When we are together my sides hurt from laughing so hard. Biddle serves in a very tiny council and is very much the "Outdoor man" He loves the outdoors and loves Scouting outdoors. Over the years he has told me some really funny tales about a Scout called Pletch. Pletch is a nickname for Pletcher. I have no idea how true any of these tales are. There are just too many of them. Many of us have met a kid like Pletch. The Lad that if something is going to happen to someone it is going to happen to him. One Summer Camp, sad to say OJ was "That Kid" He got hit in the eye with a Frisbee,on the way to the first aid station he twisted his ankle in a hole, walked into a tree branch (The other eye) was treated left the first aid station and got stung on the lip by a bee. Back home I had little John Ofen. If something was going to happen it was going to happen to him. One really wet rainy summer camp his patrol leader told him to put water on the fire. The patrol leader was going to make a pot of tea. John put water on the fire and put the fire out. That same camp he sprained his ankle, while skimming stones on the lake he got hit on the head by a stone and needed stitches. The worst one was the Windjammer Competition. This was the Greater London Central big competition. In our District you had to come in the first, second or third in the District Camp-craft competition to be able to enter. We took all three and sent three teams. The competition changed from year to year. This year it was a knowledge of London scavenger hunt. Scouts were all over London. Word gets back that one of my Scouts has been hit by a car. Of course it's John. He has a broken leg. The other patrols keep going and win the competition. The prize is that we have custody of the biggest plaque you have ever seen. It has a big windjammer along with smaller plaques engraved with the names of past winners. A couple of days pass and the winning patrol go to visit John they take the plaque and decide to leave it with him so he can show it to all his visitors. They balance this giant plaque above his bed. It falls - knocks him out and he needs more stitches in his head. Please share your favorite tales about "That Kid" Eamonn

While we all serve one year at a time. From the start of one charter year till the end of the charter year. Many District and Council positions while still year to year do have term limits that are covered by Council bylaws. I am the District Chairman, every year I have to be nominated by the Nominating Committee and approved by the District Committee (COR's and Members of the District at Large) Our Council bylaws state that I can only hold the District Chairman position for 3 years. What I think is odd is that we in our Council don't have term limits on District Commissioners. I never could work that one out. We also have term limits on Council Pesidents, Council Vice Presidents. But again not on the Council Commissioner. Which in our case is good he is a super fellow. Eamonn (In 16 months I'm going to be unemployed !!)

OK, I do not have anything that will back this up. No lost or misunderstood memos, no material from the BSA. In fact nothing. I will try and find out more but at this time I'm unsure where to start looking. I have just returned from a meeting that was supposed to be about a Eagle Dinner. I was only there as our rep is on vacation. This dinner had in the past been held in May. For this dinner each Eagle Scout picks out an area or a career that he might want to pursue. Then the District Advancement Committee is charged with finding sponsors who will take the Scout to work for a day and pay for two dinners and a gift for the Scout $75.00 They of course get to eat one of the dinners. Companies can sponsor a table or whatever at different levels from $250.00 to $5,000.00. It was the feeling of some people in the Council, me included that having this dinner in May was just to close to the FOS campaign. So it was moved to August. Since the move (this is year two) the percentage of Eagle Scouts attending has gone down. A couple of the guys attending tonights meeting feel that this is the end of Scouting as we know it. In fact they let me have it with both barrels tonight. That is fine I'm a big boy and can take it. Also at the meeting were the Council Commissioner and the Vice President for Program. The unhappy guys when they seen that they were not making much in fact no headway with me started saying how it was time for the Scout Exec. To go. Needless to say neither of them are board members and at this time don't have the "Pull" or the support to make this go anywhere. One guy was clever enough to see this and shut up the other guy just kept going on and on and.... He started saying things like we were more interested in money then we are Scouts and that sort of stuff. At this time there is really no harm. He has dug his heels in and no matter what anyone says he isn't going to change his mind. However he says that his next step is to get a petition out to all the Scoutmasters. While I think what he is planning to do is wrong ,I will be meeting with his District Chairman and ask the Chairman to see if he can drum some sense into him. Up till now this is all fact. Now let us pretend that he starts spreading the word that our Council is more interested in money then it is Scouts. What happens if people in the community hear this and stop donating? What would happen if a story slanted this way got in the press? What happens when a parent who was thinking about having their son or daughter join Scouting gets wind of this? I don't know what happens. b But I can imagine that none of it would help us in the work that we are trying to do. I think that the Scout Exec. has the right and can revoke a membership. As I say I don't know the rules that govern this. I have been led to believe that if someone has their membership revoked that they can appeal to the National Office of the Boy Scouts Of America. We have has far as I know in our District revoked the membership of one Scouter. He was at a District Camporee some years back and for some reason "Mooned" a group of Scouts. The District Chair. Was there and seen it all. It went to the Scout Exec. Who revoked his membership. This was about ten years ago. The guy was still a parent, his son went on to become an Eagle Scout. The troop committee, the chartering organization and a good number of the parents in the troop send letters to the National Office asking for him to be reinstated. The National Office considered their request and denied it. Scout Execs. are trained by the BSA, the BSA selects from the hundreds of people who work for them those that are ready for promotion. The Scout Execs are supported by the Regional Staff and Committee. Sure there are times when Scout Execs mess up. Most are willing to stand up and say when they have. But I would hazard a guess when it comes down to taking a side who the BSA will back. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I'm not sure about a stress breaker there are times when I'm under stress that I can't remember What Her That Must Be Obeyed name is - Hang on it's coming to me - Yes Dear I got it. Eamonn.

I'm not sure about a stress breaker there are times when I'm under stress that I can't remember What Her That Must Be Obeyed name is - Hang on it's coming to me - Yes Dear I got it. Eamonn.

I only ever get to sit on Eagle Scout Rank BOR's. Before the review all the paperwork has been checked. I maybe guilty of being too trusting, but I feel if the Scoutmaster has seen fit to send a Lad for his BOR, that the Scoutmaster has covered all the practical stuff that needs covered. I think that the board is a place and time to look back at where we have been. We do this by asking thought provoking questions. Reflecting on the steps that have been taken to get us to where we are today. We also try to look into the future. Trying to see what plans and dreams this young fellow has for the days to come. While the Board is not in any way a "Rubber Stamp" Affair. I think that unless the Scout displayed a total lack of understanding of the Oath and Law I would have a hard time failing a Scout. I have sat in on boards where the Chair has asked each Scout to report in say his name, tell why he is there and then recite the Scout Oath and Law. I don't agree with this. I don't see it as a requirement for the Eagle Scout Rank. It is far more important that the young man understands and is doing his best to live by these standards then being able to recite them off by heart. Many years ago when I was an Alter Boy and the Mass was in Latin, I knew all the responses in Latin, but had no idea what most of them meant. Eamonn.

He was /is a funny little fellow. Gone on now to the ranks of the dearly departed. However parts of his wise words can still be found in the Scouter Forum archives. I was hoping that maybe he would get transfered to my neck of the woods. He was known for his fine needle work ans sewing skills. I was hoping that he would sew the odd patch on for me. Still where ever you are Man Of Steele, know that I wish you well and to this day regret calling you a twit. Of course that was in the days before the forum became a kinder, gentler place. Eamonn.

Hi Cheffy, Maybe I'm wrong? But I kinda get the feeling that you don't like this Dad. I have to admit that I have never heard of a Troop paying for a Dad who isn't a leader to attend camp. To tell the truth I am not in favor of paying the entire amount for a Scout to attend camp. To my way of thinking it goes against "A Scout is thrifty." I believe that we offer enough and at times too many opportunities for Scouts to raise the money or save the money. My Son tells me that I'm cheap. I say that I'm frugal. Still by giving this Lad a free ride he doesn't have any ownership of the camp. It is just a free ride. Most Patrols that I have seen in action have a way of dealing with Patrol members who are not pulling their weight. Normally it starts with the other Patrol members complaining and ends with the Patrol Leader laying down the law. A lot of this hostility can be avoided by having the work/duty roster posted and planned before the camp. Please don't give up on the Lad after all he didn't pick his parents. As for the Dad, I'm surprised that some of the other adults in camp didn't in a very polite way explain to him that there were things that needed to be done and it was time for him to get with the program and get off his duff. I would next time I met with him explain that Scout Camp is not Club Med and if he plans on attending any other camps that he will be expected to pay his way, this is the Boy Scouts Of America and we are not in the habit of subsidizing non-members and he will be expected to help with any and all chores that need to be done. If he does decide to attend another camp and starts to complain I would remind him that A Scout is cheerful and would he kindly put a sock in it as he is setting a poor example for the Scouts. Eamonn.

OK Hotdesk, Let's just for a couple of minutes imagine that you are the Scoutmaster. What action or actions do you think should be taken? Eamonn

Mr Walton does say that Cub Scout Packs can if they choose opt to have all their members wear the tan shirt. I say this is not the case and never has been the case. Mr Walton talks about various memos send out by National Supply. National Supply sends out a lot of memos during the course of a year. I phoned the Cub Scout division and they agree that Cub Scouts wear the Cub Scout shirt which is blue. Webelos Scout may wear the tan shirt. When asked if there was ever a memo from National Supply saying that Packs could wear the tan shirt they have no knowledge of it and question what National Supply has to do with setting the uniform. I have no idea where Mr Walton received his information. I am 100% sure that he had nothing to gain by posting this on the Internet. While I have every reason to admire the good folk who live in Mississippi for their high ethical standards. I fail to see that I have called anyone a lier or have accused anyone of telling lies. I have said that they are wrong and might be the recipient of flawed information. I have also gone on to say that if you want to ensure that the information you are getting about Scouting is correct go to the materials put out by the BSA. Eamonn

Barry, What a great posting. I couldn't agree with you more if I tried. Eamonn.

You don't say if this Lad has taken the JLTC Training? While there are some people that are just natural leaders. People that can lead others to do anything or go anywhere without question. We believe that Leadership can be taught. It is the duty of the Scoutmaster to guide and prepare the SPL. Having an election and giving the Lad the patch is only one very tiny step. While I agree 100% with the wise people who have posted that pushing and hitting are wrong and can not be tolerated. I do question what made this Lad resort to such un Scout like behavior? Of course not knowing the Lad or what led up to his outbursts it is impossible to say that such and such is to blame. I do wonder if he was just in over his head and these outbursts were just him allowing a lot of built up frustration erupt and spew out? The Scoutmaster if he isn't aware that this has happened has to be made aware and he needs to conference with this Lad as soon and as quickly as possible. If any lines were crossed and from what you post it seems to me that they were crossed the Troop committee needs to get involved and take whatever steps they deem necessary, hopefully after they have met with the Scoutmaster and thought long and hard, not just about what he has done, but what led up to him doing it. Eamonn.

No I won't go back and quote from "Hard Times" again. I question if organizations like the Boy Scouts and the Boys Brigade sprung up to keep idle adolescents busy. Looking at the very early days of Scouting in London. I see that the boys formed patrols and tried to organize themselves long before there was any real organization. They were captivated by the books that Baden Powell had written and were looking for adventure. If we look back over history we see a lot of Lads around this age have answered the same call. Eamonn.

As often happens on the Internet with Scouting. People start out with BSA rules and policy and then add their own two cents worth. The case of Cub Scouts being allowed to wear the tan shirt has never ever been allowed. While I have every respect for Mr Walton, you will see that very often he adds his own views on what he thinks. While some of the ideas are good, they are not and should not be confused with the policy's of the BSA. As for the memos about uniform National Supply send out a lot of memos. If you look on the Scout Stuff web page you will have seen the memo sent out about the change in Tiger Uniforms. National Supply has also sent out memos telling people to disregard the last memo. I will not go so far as to call Mr. Walton a lier. I will say that he is wrong. He has in the past been asked to show evidence of this memo and has been unable to do so. There are a lot of good people in this organization who have as much time in serving this organization as Mr Walton, many with a lot more. I know several people who can match his awards in Scouting, several who are active serving on various committees of the National Council. These people know Scouting but do not profess to know all that there is to know. Being employed by the BSA does not make anyone an expert on everything that there is in Scouting. Sure there are people like the Man Of Steele who used to post in these forums, who know more then a lot of DE's. In our Council at this time we don't have any what might be termed "Experts". If they need to know something they ask someone who has the knowledge or they look it up in materials that come from the BSA. A lot of times the people with the knowledge are employed by the National Office. Still even these highly respected people don't know everything. They are human and make mistakes. Sometime back I was talking with a "High Ranking" employee of the National Office about Venturing and he wasn't aware that a parent signature wasn't needed on a Venturing Youth application. To be fair, he doesn't work in the Venturing Division. He did phone the guy in charge and asked. I have no interest what so ever in dueling with anyone. The people who work in the Cub Scout Division at the National Office have no knowledge about any memo. They agree that the tan shirt has only ever been for adults, Boy Scouts and Webelos Scouts. How do I know this? I just got off the phone from talking with them. It would seem that either the girl in the National Office or Mr Walton are suffering from selective memory. Eamonn.

What is your position in the troop? Eamonn.