Eamonn

Wood Badge tickets should be written for the area in which the person holds their primary registration. If they hold two they should choose one. So if a person is a member of a training team he or she can write their ticket on training. If they are a Scoutmaster their ticket should be about what their vision is for the troop. Eamonn.

Sorry Fuzzy Old Chap now I have to diagree with you. Just as in any other ad when we try to sell the program we sell it at it's best. Toyota doesn't show a broken down car and the cost of imported parts in their ads. We sell the Scouting as it should be. At Training we do our best to train leaders how to do things the right way. But once they get back to the troop setting what they chose to do is up to them. Of course recruiting is a lot easier when you can hold up the local troops that are doing things well. Eamonn

In another thread I said some things about Commissioner Service, which were not very nice. I spent about six years as a Commissioner. The Commissioner Staff were for the most part elderly people. Most were and are very kind hearted but didn't have very much zip. It seems that things in our District have gone from not great to really bad. I was talking to our Council Commissioner he had just returned from some meeting where the new National Commissioner gave a speech. I asked if there was anything new coming up. He said that there wasn't. How good of a job are the Commissioners doing in your area? Eamonn

Fuzzy In your long posting that followed my long posting you bring up and cover a lot of ideas that are worth exploring. You are right when you say in your other shorter posting about the quality of the program. Scouting to a young Scout is what happens in his troop. Sad as it may seem the guys who serve on the district can not do very much about what is happening at the weekly troop meeting. Sure we can provide training and a happy talented Commissioner. But we didn't select the leadership we are just there to support them. It is their choice as what they do with our support. We at the District level are faced with goals for membership that being so, we will keep working on recruiting youth into our programs. We are taking steps to get Lads that have left to think again and give Scouting another chance. 18 Scouts may only be a baby step, but it is heading in the right direction. Eamonn.

You have hit on a very soft spot. Of course every Council will have its own way of doing things. So you need to meet with your Council Training Chair and the Staff Advisor. I have to admit that I am very surprised that your District doesn't have a Training Committee. You will find that a lot of the materials that you need can only be ordered through the Council. Most Councils I know, have no problem ordering the stuff once. I used to make copies of all the video tapes and keep the originals. Members of the Training Team had the option of either buying a copy of the syalabuss or borrowing one, which they had to return when the course was over. Keeping track of who has what is a real chore. But one that needs to be done. Our Council pays for all that and if there is a need for extras we ask the Training Committee to see if more can be made available.There are good times and bad times to ask. Now is a bad time in our Council as money will be tight until the popcorn money starts to come in. The Council does have some AV equipment, but we found that picking it up and getting back was a pain. We found a hospital that was replacing all the TVs, so a few of us bought and donated cheap VCR's. I bought my own overhead projector and LCD projector, the Council does have this stuff but I like to see how things look when they are projected sometimes how they look on a laptop and how they look when they are projected is very different. The can be money spent out of the trainers pockets. We have never paid for Flip Chart pads or paper. If someone is near the Council Service Center and copies handouts that is fine.If not they are on their own. Most people do it at work. I would hope with the OK from the boss!! We do charge for training and do sell soda pop and refreshments. Eamonn.

Great Stuff. It is so nice to see not only that Scouts are doing such good works, but also it is in the paper. You can't buy a better ad !! Eamonn

I wondered what that stuff in them little cans was. A few years back the council was holding a Council Event, we have one every four years. I went down to help set it up, along with OJ who was only a little fellow then and my best friend Mike. OJ calls him uncle Mike. Mike loves to tease me about how cheap I am. He really enjoys when he can tease me in front of OJ. We worked really hard on Friday night. Every time I seen OJ he was drinking a can of Mountain Dew. Or Mike was giving him yet another dollar for the pop machine. That night we all went into one of the buildings to sleep. There was the Council key 3, Mike OJ and myself. Soon the sound of snores filled the cabin. I tossed and turned but soon fell into a sound sleep. I felt myself being shaken and I woke up -it was OJ. I don't like being woken in the middle of the night and was not my cheerful self "What DO you want?" I snapped at this poor kid."Dad I peed the bed" He said. Needless to say we didn't have a spare sleeping bag. So I gave him mine while I hiked across the campsite in search of a blanket. The next day Mike thought that this was the funniest thing ever. I wanted to string him up. I asked OJ how many cans of pop did you drink? "Only six!" With Pals like Mike I never need any enemies. Eamonn

I would hope that every course would do whatever it takes to accommodate people who have difficulties. The Course is a Leadership Course. While spending a few nights in a tent is the norm. Even that can if the facilities allow be changed. At the course we hosted last year we made sure that everyone with "Bad knees" Were in a site that was close to the action and the bathrooms. We transported those with "Really Bad Knees," To where they needed to be. It is however a very good idea to talk to the Course Director and let him know what help that you are going to need. Back in the day... There used to be a 30 day meeting before the course and it gave everyone a chance to discuss this sort of thing. I wish that when the tweak the course that the 30 day meeting comes back. I was talking with a Course Director who said that everything was set up for the Course and this Scouter arrived who was legally blind. He hadn't informed anyone. They found a way of making the Course work for him. But life would have been a lot easier if they had been warned. Please don't tell anyone but the part of your anatomy that gets the most use (Not counting your brain) Is not your knees. You might want to bring a cushion!! Don't let them there whippersnappers have all the fun. Do as Mr. Bob White says and sign up!! Eamonn.

It is late and I know that I'm missing something. The list that you posted isn't helping. The list has things that in a troop setting are things that an adult leader should be doing. The Venture Patrol is still part of the troop. As such they still work within the framework of the Troop. The Troop Committee is still there and is still the management body. It seems that what you are doing is trying to set up a unit that is apart from the troop. The role of the Patrol Leader in a Venture Patrol is the same as in the other Patrols. I can't help wondering what happened to the Scouts that you took out!! You don't say what age the Scouts are in this Venture Patrol. I only ask as in some Troops Scouts aged 12 are considered older Scouts. It is hard to answer what does the Patrol do? A lot depends on what they want to do? How skilled are they in the areas that they want to pursue? In many Troops the Venture Patrol working with the Troop Leadership will set their sights on doing something and then work on the things they need to do to get ready or good at what their goal was. For example they might decide that they want to do the trek at Philmont. As they prepare for the trek they would do some hikes, practice cooking on backpacking stoves and that sort of thing. Much of the stuff can be looked at and gone over at the weekly troop meetings. While keeping within a theme. Maybe the troop is doing something with First Aid, the Venture Patrol could still be doing First Aid, but First Aid with a slant that has more to do with Hiking or New Mexico. Maybe you all need to meet and have a brainstorming session, writing all the ideas down and then working with the adult leadership present the ideas that seem to fit best to the PLC. So it can be included in the annual plan. Eamonn.

I kinda think that we are having a slight communication problem. We all (Well me anyway!!) seem to have a different idea what program is. Please feel free to correct me if I am way of course. I see the program as the stuff that goes on in the troop.The weekly meetings, the camp-outs, the little fellow working his way through the requirements in the Scout Handbook (change what you need to for Cub Scouts or Venturers.) The high point is normally some sort of summer activity. In many cases the Troop going to camp. This is the really important program. The delivery of this program lies in the hands of the leaders and the committee members. We also should not forget the chartered partners. I'm trying hard not to use the word program!! We at the unit level are an extension of that organization. At the District level program can take on a new or different meaning. For the most part we have very little interaction with the youth. When I look at the District Chairman Highlights book and my job description, if I'm remembering correctly (No I don't have one in front of me!!)It makes no mention of doing anything with our youth members. Sure we have committees that have a voice on other committees. Our camping committee doesn't go camping with the Scouts, but they have a voice as to how much camp will cost and what improvements need to be done. We do have an activities committee to organize district events.In our District three Camporees and a mall show. Attendance at these is up to the unit. If they like what we are offering they come if they don't like it they are free to do their own thing. The Commissioner Staff are viewed by the District as being program guys. They are the support guys for the units. I served as a commissioner for a good many years and never received a phone call from a youth member. So while this group is viewed as being a program group. In the book of Eamonn, they really aren't. When we go up to the Council level program can take on an entire new meaning. Please don't think that I'm putting our pros down. But some Board members see DE's as the guys who ensure the delivery of the program.Some Board members believe that if we had more DE's in the field that the program would improve. Sad to say these guys and girls like to eat and have other needs which makes them a very expensive tool. Camps and camp management can be viewed as program items. Sad to say we have a beautiful camp which we can't get into from late October till spring thaw. The new camp center cost over $300,000. It houses the first aid station, the admin center a training center. We have another camp that really needs city water brought in, but just to get that in is $250,000. Which we don't have at this time. Once we get it in and build shower houses the camp will get used a lot more and troops and packs will use it to improve their programs. As you go up through the Region and maybe the National levels program takes on an other twist. Money is a very big and very important part of Scouting. I look at the tents that are used for summer camp. They cost something like $200 -$300 each. I again don't have the book. The tents are used for summer camp in our council that is seven weeks. The life span is about ten years. If that tent is filled for its life time it will meet the needs of 140 Scouts. That is about $2.00 just to house the Scout in the tent. This could come under program. While some Councils have been fortunate enough to raise the money to meet budget these past few years. Others have had a very rough ride. Our good pal Dave Steele didn't leave the council he was at because of his health. He left because money was tight. Dave wasn't replaced and I feel sure that the program in the council he was at is the worse for him not being there. I am all for goals. When I became District Chair. Our District was known as the smallest district. I found myself saying it "Hi I'm from such and such a district we are the smallest district." My goal was to stop saying it. We are no longer the smallest district. We put membership on the front burner and really worked on and with the units to go for it. As I posted I am not happy that we are not reaching out and grabbing more of the youth that are not in our organization. I believe that my part in getting more youth and upping our percentage is not going to cost the district anything. We need to start more units in areas that are under-served. It really doesn't matter why the area is under-served!! We just need to get in there and get the job done. We need to do a far better job of marketing. We have all sorts of Scouting events going on all the time. We need to get the units to do a better job of sending reports into the local papers. We need to ensure that all of our leaders are trained. At round tables we need to relight the enthusiasm that some of our old guys seem to have lost. Plant ideas that they can bring back the PLC or leaders meetings. This fall we will be going back into the schools to recruit, we need to send the brightest and the best communicator's,people that will sell the adventure and Fun to the children. We will recruit and train commissioners that will help and support the units. We had our kick off meeting tonight and I found myself saying that our District would not allow any child to be left behind. Things that we started last year are paying off. We now will not send a charter into the Service Center until every Scout who has been crossed off, has been contacted and asked if he is sure that he wants to be crossed off. I know of at least 18 Lads that came back, maybe not to the same unit but they are back. We are trying some new ideas this year. We are holding our first ever Tiger Cub parent orientation meeting. We have in the past been losing a lot of these little fellows. Our DE is in Rotary with the guy from the local cable company, he has agreed to air Scouting ads for no cost. All this stuff is OK. However the big thing will be what happens at the weekly meeting. If there is not a balanced program, where the Lad feels that he is part of an ongoing fun and adventurous organization. It will all be for nothing. The Lad will leave and will tell his mates at school that Scouting sucks. If we had a hard time getting him the first time, it is a heck of a lot harder the second time. Eamonn (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Fuzzy Bear, I am not sold on your idea. To my way of thinking program is where the end user - The Scout receives it. In his home troop. Sure the District and the Council are there to support the Troops but Scouts join a Troop and choose a Troop that is going to meet their needs. Eamonn

Our Council has four Districts, all the Districts present Cub Scout training's at least twice a year most offer Cub Scout training's three times a year. Some of the training is offered on a week day night some are on a Saturday. During my term as Council Training Chair. Which ended last year, if there was someone who couldn't make any of these dates we would send someone from the training team to work one on one or with a small group to do the training. Just as having a unit commissioner servicing his or her own unit doesn't work. I feel the same way about training.While I'm sure that pack 330 does everything really well. It could be that somehow, someway the pack has picked up a few nasty habits or is doing something that is not right. Having someone from the pack pass on these bad habits or presenting something that is not right as training is I'm sure you can see not a good thing to do. You would be surprised how many units /packs do stuff that is not right. Or they people with strong ideas that they in their heart of hearts believe to be right but sad to say is not so. It also helps to allow someone with "Fresh Eyes" to do the training. If they are good trainers they will cover all the material in the syllabus. I think that if the training was presented "In House" there might be a temptation to skip some of the material, either because "We don't do that!" Or the "You already know that!" will come into play. The other thing that can happen is that once you start doing training in the pack it is going to be very hard to get other leaders to attend the District training's. Again the feeling would be why should we go anywhere else when we can do it here. Eamonn

When your Boys start to look for a worth while project, they might want to start with the organization that charters the unit. Many of the churches that Charter Scout troops in our area have benefited greatly from the work done by Scouts. Of course some Scouts are happier doing this at there own church. Some Scouts belong to other organizations and work with them when it comes to the project. When the time comes and if you are really stuck you might want to have a word with your district advancement chairman. These guys have been known to keep a couple of projects on the back burner. Eamonn

The line that confused me was "Increase program quality by 90%.." I have never seen program looked at as a percentage or number. Program is where the rubber hits the road. When you ask Lads who have left Scouting "Why?" In a lot of cases they will tell you that they found it boring. When you dig a little deeper they will say that the weekly meetings were the soft spot. Of course most of them have no idea what the program could be. Most of them try Scouting in one troop and when it doesn't work out they are gone. I am all for the goal of having our new Scouts reach First Class in about a year. Not as some sign of pass or fail. But as a sign that we have equipped these Lads with the knowledge for the adventure that lies ahead. Of course there has to be an adventure ahead. Do we at times need to give a Lad a friendly kick in the pants and remind him that Eagle Scout is a very special place to get too? Sure we do. Isn't that something that can be addressed at Scoutmaster Conferences,aren't these and BOR's a good place to have a Lad look at where he has been and set goals as to where he is going. I see troops that have Scouts with all sorts of the really hard Merit Badges, Wilderness survival, Emergency Preparedness and these Lads are still tenderfoot!! To me this shows a troop where the program is weak and the only advancement that is being accomplished is what is done at that week at Summer Camp. I have a hard time seeing how any Council can be proud of only reaching 20 or 30 % of the available youth. The percentage of Eagle Scouts while interesting does little for me. Eamonn

So what does this Venture Patrol do now? It would seem from what you have posted that the Scoutmaster needs to assign an adult ASM to guide these guys. I fail to see what difference you stepping in as a Patrol Leader is going to make. If these guys are not interested or just don't want to do the high adventure stuff, they just don't want to. Could it be that it is you that wants to do this sort of activity? If this is the case maybe you need to be looking for a troop that does the high adventure activities. Or you might want to give some thought about joining a Venture Crew. Eamonn

Where does this leave you? You have done all that there is to be done. You now know that you should never have allowed these Scouts to ride with an intoxicated driver. The home council Scout Exec. Knows. You don't have to do anything else. Letters to the National Office or the Regional Office will end up on the Scout Executives desk. Now that you have reported it you leave it alone. You have no need to know what action the Scout Exec. Or the Chartering organization is taking or has taken. For you to persist might be taken for you being a busy body. I would also warn you that the suggestion that something was or wasn't done because of money when you don't have all the facts is something that you really do not want to do. Eamonn.

It always strikes me as odd that uniform threads see so much action. For the most part I don't see it as being that important. Not important to me what it looks like. I will admit that I am happy that OJ missed Tigers, I don't like t-shirts that much and t-shirts that are the same color as the cones on the hi-way just don't match any of my shoes. Still I thought that the little Guys looked good and it was easy to find them. I remember how proud both Her That Must Be Obeyed and I were when he put on his Cub Scout uniform and again when he wore the new tan uniform when he was a Webelos Scout. He does have a merit badge sash, but I don't remember him ever wearing it. When Her That Must Be Obeyed was doing some sorting the other week she found my old English Scout Leader shirt. I tried it on and was surprised when it still fitted. She can be very ruthless, she was kind enough to let me take it off before she stuffed it into the bag that was heading for the Goodwill. I will admit that every-time I visit the Scout Stuff page I fill in the survey and say that I'm all for the cheaper non USA items. The other week OJ needed two pair of shorts and it put a hurting on my wallet. I have the red wool jacket. I hope that it never wears out as I can't see me ever buying a new one. While I have not heard anything about any changes to the uniform, I suspect that if and when it does happen we will be looking at something that everyone will says looks like something that hailed from a fast food chain. I don't think it will make any difference to me. I can't see me wearing a grass skirt and a couple of coconuts. I don't have the legs for that. Eamonn

I'm sorry Fuzzy, somewhere along the line you lost me. Could be that I ate too much at lunch time? I agree that everything we do comes back to program. I am a simple enough fellow to believe that program is the answer to all of our failings. A good program will solve all of our membership woes. Scouts will stay in the Troops longer, more youth will want to join in the fun. Parents and local communities will see the good that is being done in and by the program and be more willing to support the organization. Everyone or at least most people given the choice like to be a member of a winning team, when parents see that their kid is a member of a winning team they are more lightly to step up to the plate and become involved. I may be in the minority, but I think that too many District Events is a bad thing. I feel that they get in the way of what the troop is doing or should be doing. Even worse, in a lot of Districts these District events take the leader away from what he or she ought to be doing that being the delivery of the the program to the Scouts in the unit. I am all for improving Council facilities, but at the end of the day our Scouts only get to spend a week or so at the camps. The real program is what is offered in the troop setting week in and week out. I don't know what is happening in other Councils but having served as the Council Training Chairman, it amazes me that we will spend big bucks on a camp that is used for so few weeks a year and spend very little on Training. In our Council if it wasn't for the good will of those who present the training's it would be a really poor show. Again I don't know what is happening in other parts of the country, but the Commissioner Service area is no where near living up to what is expected. Much as I hate to be a pessimist, I don't hold out much hope for any improvement. I live in hope that sometime soon the entire idea is reviewed and something is done to vastly improve it. When I look at the Vision and mission statements of this organization. I am filled with hope. I sure as heck would love to see a heck of a lot more kids in our organization. When I look at the Methods of Scouting I know that they can and do work. However they work to different degrees with different kids. Some are not happy unless they are out and about at a camp. Others are keen to work on leadership skills, while others see the goal of Eagle Scout as the thing. All of this can change as the Scout changes. In our house OJ has been a Life Scout for what seems to me as a long time. Every now and then we have a burst of enthusiasm, in that area. But of late he is more enthusiastic about the OA. He enjoys leadership and working with and for other Scouts. The hum drum camp-outs that are just living in a tent no longer captures his imagination. If he never makes Eagle this will in no way make him any less of a Scout. He really got into the NLS training's and spent many hours working on the presentations that he made as a staff member of JLTC. I don't have anything against advancement. Still show me a troop with twenty members of which half are Eagle Scouts and show me a troop with fifty active Scouts who are having fun and participating in all the adventures that Scouting can offer. I would think that the troop with fifty is doing more to help us turn the vision and mission of the BSA into a reality. I wonder what the outcome would be if every troop put as much effort into membership as some seem to spend on advancement? Eamonn.

Not sure how I'm going to tie this in but... I attended a very long and for the most part very boring meeting the other-day.As ever Membership was on the agenda. Different people from different Councils got up and gave a report on how things were going in there Council. Many of these guys spent time saying what percentage of the total available youth they were serving. Many said this with a lot of pride. Numbers seemed to fall in about the 20 percent. Some a little higher and some a little lower. I think it is safe for me to say that I didn't make too many friends when I made the comment that we are failing to reach 70 percent of the youth that could be in our programs. It could be that if we attract a lot more Scouts into Scouting that the percentage of Eagle Scouts would fall. If I had to choose more Lads in Scouting? Or more Eagle Scouts? I sure as heck wouldn't have to think for very long. Eamonn.

The kid should thank his lucky stars that he doesn't have my brother-in laws, father-in-law around for Thanksgiving. This guy is some sort of a lay preacher. Once he gets going there is no stopping him. Many a time I thought it would be Christmas by the time he had given the blessing. He has given me a whole new understanding of Cold Turkey. Eamonn

I don't belong to a lot of other organizations, those that I do seem to dwell on the things that are going well and the successes that the organization has had and that the members of the organization have had. Sad to say this is happening less and less in our area. Parking lot meetings that used to be where the real planning of events got done, have become a meeting where there is gossip and worse at times back stabbing. We seem to spend less and less time looking for the good that is done by our members and more time putting people down. I know that I'm guilty of letting people know what I really think. But I like to think that I'm man enough to say it to their face. If there is something that I'm not sure about I will find out what the facts are. All this gossiping and spreading of half truths and at times outright lies does untold harm. Worse still is now when I hear it and say that I don't want to hear it people think that I am defending something or somebody that might be wrong. This is not the case. I just want to have the facts before I open my mouth. Or in a lot of cases whatever "It" is. Is none of my business to start with. This does go against how I see the Scout Law. I just wish it would stop. Eamonn

OK I have now read the second posting. Let me see if I have this right: A person who ought not be driving is going to transport Scouts in a vehicle. I see this what action do I take? I using my Sunday best manners inform the driver that he ought not be driving and that I will not allow the Scouts to travel with him. I also tell him that if he tries to start the vehicle that I will be calling the police. I then do everything and use whatever people are available to prevent the Scouts from traveling in that vehicle. If I don't do this I am at fault. I would hate to see any of our Scouts hurt and allowing them to travel with a drunk driver is unforgivable. It is very difficult to do very much after the fact. The Scout Exec.again has many options open to him. Eamonn

While I can't speak for other councils. In our Council, the camp which is in a state park. Does make everyone aware of both the BSA policy and the no alcohol policy from the state that does not allow alcohol in the state park. The group that seems to break this rule the most is parents who attend the Parent /Son weekends. If they are caught they are asked to leave the camp. We do not have a blanket policy to deal with alcohol. Each case is dealt case by case. Being as our camp is in the state park with a no alcohol rule if someone is caught with alcohol they are are asked to leave camp. A report is made to the Scout Executive. This to my way of thinking is as far as the Camp Director needs to go. His job is directing the camp. The Scout Executive can deal with the matter as he sees fit. He has a lot of options open to him. He might take a lot of different factors into consideration. It may seem that this is being brushed under the rug, but that isn't the case. If we are talking about a Scout who brings alcohol to camp. Surely we we are talking about someone who has made a bad choice. We as an organization do not need to go for public humiliation? Isn't it better that we do all that we can to help this Lad? If however we are talking about adults they need to be asked to leave. Eamonn

Howz about suggesting to the PLC that you put Snow Tubing on the agenda as a winter activity. It might help get you off the list. Eamonn.

The change from the blue shirt to the tan shirt is up to the parent of the Webelos Scout.