Eamonn

I've posted this before, but I never miss an opportunity to re-tell a good story. A really great kid that I think the world of went to the world Jambo. Not the last one in the UK but the one before that. As part of the Jambo the Scouts did a service project for the locals. His patrol planted flowers at a local grade school. They were invited to talk with the kids in the school. The teacher asked them if they would do their national dance or sing their national song. There was a Lad from Scotland in the service patrol, so he did his version of a highland dance, when they got to the two American Scouts they sung and performed the actions to "I'm a little teapot". Of course the sad thing is now there is a class of kids who think this little tea-pot song is the American national song, when everyone knows it's Home on the range! Ea.

shortridge Thank you for a great question. I have seen stuff that I thought was "Official" posted on sites that I again thought were "Official". But the truth is I can't point you to where the BSA states their case in black and white. While I of course respect the people who for religious reasons view homosexual activity as being a sin. I at times get very mixed up and confused. There are a lot of people out there who are not gay that I really don't think should be the ones that our kids should be looking up too and modeling. More and more I'm hearing that if someone is gay? That's OK. Yesterday I was running out the door from work and while waiting for the gates to open I picked up part of a newspaper that someone had left. While I don't remember names. In a nut shell the article was about a young Lad in California who killed another young Lad. It was very sad. The Lad that was killed was openly gay,(Wearing make-up and high heels to school.) had been subjected to a lot of bullying and teasing. Somehow, someway he turned this bullying and teasing around and as a kinda of defense he started making advances to the people who were teasing him. It seems he made advances to the Lad who killed him and because of these advances the lad lashed out. I like to think that I'm fairly open minded. But I can never see the day when a parent would be willing to allow their son to be left with a guy wearing make up and high heels! -It just ain't going to happen! On the other hand the District Commissioner I looked up to and thought the world of in the UK. Was gay and I didn't know until I found out after he died. I suppose looking back that there were signs. But no one was looking for them. About that time there were a lot of very dedicated unmarried men who were deeply involved in Scouting. I had a assistant leader who had been the Scout Leader of another Troop till it folded who never married and as far as I know wasn't gay. The District Commissioner was highly respected by everyone in the Scouting community. I don't think whatever his sexual preferences or bedroom activities made any difference to him being a good Scouter. Like Barry I at times feel sorry for the guys who are gay and in a committed relationship. I had a boss who I didn't know was gay and in a committed relationship. At that time it wasn't OK. He didn't feel comfortable having photos of his partner on his desk, he didn't feel it was OK to bring his partner to company outings and functions. While he did tell me he was gay and never asked me not to mention it, I didn't because at that time it just wasn't OK. I never ever try to hide the fact that I'm married and that I love my wife. Of course I don't go into details about what our sex life is or what we might or might not get up to in the bedroom. The fact is that anyone with half a brain could tell that I'm married and for most if not everyone this is viewed as being OK. I'm sure that no one looks at me or my wife and tries to think about what we might even get up to in the bedroom! Why should we look down on or even try to imagine what anyone else might get up to? The thing that gets to me and plays with my head a little is the discrimination thing. There just isn't any room in the Scout oath and law for discrimination, so for any discrimination to be allowed is just wrong. We are doing what we can to help bring young people around to the idea of making ethical choices. I just fail to see the ethics in discriminating against any group on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual preference. The take home message here? Just plays with my head. Ea.

In the other thread, I kinda, sorta get Beavah's point and I kinda, sorta agree with him. I don't know squat about the law, so I'm not going down that path. I agree that we do have people who belong to the same organization as we do who for some reason aren't happy unless they are beating others over the head with some sort of rule book, policy, guideline, call it what you will. This sometimes leads to the use of labels and names that either are just plain wrong or really are not a good fit. A pal of mine has a great dog. It's mixed breed with German Shepard and Golden retriever. It looks like a German Shepard, but acts like a Goldie. He gets a little upset when people talk about his dog as being a "Man eating, vicious, junk yard". Type. People who meet me, because I talk with an English accent think I'm English. Just this past week someone met me and said that we wouldn't get on because he was American-Irish. Of course as it turned out I was far "More Irish" then he was and ever would be. I of course don't think that humiliation is a tool that we should use to try and teach the young people we serve, life skills. I also tend to think that just because a normal Lad has stood up and had to sing, he isn't going to need therapy for the rest of his life. My fear is that when get the message that humiliation is OK, they fall into the monkey see monkey do thing and being young they can build on it too such an extent that there is a danger that it might get out of hand. We at our Council camp used to have a thing where people who forgot to remove their hat in the dining hall were invited to stand on a bench and sing a silly song. I watched as young Scouts entered the dining hall. Some would get very excited at just the thought that someone would get caught and seemed to take sheer joy in this just so long as they weren't the person caught. This was a common practice for many years. To be very honest I never really gave it a lot of thought. It was what it was. I never really seen it as a big deal. I think the same can be said for almost everyone who ever entered the dining room. I most certainly never seen or looked at the people in charge as being abusers or guilty of hazing. I never even gave it enough thought as to view it as humiliation. - Even if that's what it was. The people in charge were nice people doing a service for kids. No matter how we now might view it they never had an intent to harm or hurt anyone. We can argue if kids today are being brought up in an environment that isn't as tough as the one that we remember as children, we can try to shrug off the fact that some things while maybe not out and out wrong fall into that area of things that just aren't right or just are not such a good idea. The people who are willing to label others as hazers or being guilty of abuse for these silly type of activities are also guilty of bringing humiliation and laying it at the feet of others who really don't deserve it. At the risk of me calling them names or mislabeling them. All too often these guys come off seeming and sounding like sanctimonious, pompous pains in the neck. Humiliation is never a good thing. Humiliating others is not a good example for us to set and we really ought not to be doing it. Ea.

Not sure what positions you are talking about? The Vice President for Program is supposed to have the last word when it comes to that area. In some Councils many of the people who fill these positions also serve on the Council Executive Board, that isn't the case in the Council I'm in, which I think is a mistake. It means that most of the Board have little or no knowledge of what Scouting is really about. The Council President and VP's go through the BSA nominating committee process, which I think is a bit of a joke. The people who fill the program positions are normally people who have at the District level proved that they can do a good job and also have the ability to get along with and serve others. Ea.

"Did you have a kickoff meeting somewhere? That building had to be rented." The kick off meeting normally happens at a local church hall. There is no cost to the Council. "Where do you pick up your popcorn? At a warehouse ... that too was leased." Again District volunteers find a place where the pop corn can be stored, normally just over night and picked up the next day. Again at no cost to the Council "I'm in a large council, so we have multiple warehouses throughout the area. There is also freight costs in getting all of that popcorn delivered to mine and your council." Trails End pays this. "That means popcorn is funding our four council camps, rangers to maintain them, shooting and archery equipment, no fee camping, etc, etc. Not only that, we have multiple service centers so that volunteers don't have to drive a hundred miles to turn in a tour permit or attend a training class. Popcorn sales funds the districts so that we can have Camporees, roundtables, district training, etc. There are many more things that councils must pay for besides professional salaries. You do realize that the council has a recharter fee to pay, as well? Camp budgets if done right should cover the cost of the camps. Using a fax or email means you can do the Tour Permit without ever leaving your home office. Hate to say it but in most Councils the Council makes money from District events and Camporees. Have no idea what a Council might spend on a R/T meeting? Where I live training is done at the District level, presented by volunteers in a church hall. Other than paying someone to enter the training's into Scoutnet the Council investment is about zero. Council budgets are great fun! You need to really read them and try(Yes try to understand them, as they use a booking keeping that is truly unique.) Don't be taken in by the pie chart, it covers a multitude of sins. Take a long hard look at what the SE and the other top guys are being paid, add a nice retirement and benefit package on and you will see where most of the money is going. packsaddle, I don't have a problem training or taking a newly hired DE under my wing. The guys who get up my nose are the guys who have titles that end in "Director" or "Executive". They sit in their ivory towers hiding from the volunteers doing what? Surely a guy with the title Finance Director should know at least a little about finance? Surely there is more to finance than finding 101 ways to squeeze more money from the volunteers? Surely a Finance Director should. At one time the tiny Council I serve with 4 Districts had a SE, a Assistant SE, along with a Field Director. Two of the DE's who'd been around for a while were listed as Senior DE's. I'm sorry but a Assistant SE and a Field Director? It's just overkill and we can't afford it. Might be a little different if these guys were out and about helping to raise big bucks from foundations and corporations. But that just isn't happening. Ea.

qwazse While I agree 100% that Councils need cash. I have a couple of axes to grind. 1/ The big one! What does the Council really do for the kid in a unit? Along them same lines. Where does the money go? 2/While I see the sense in selling something that is going to be consumed or used as cat litter. I wonder how much time is spent by the office and professional staff dealing with pop corn? Why pop-corn? Why not garbage bags or tickets to see movies? Anything but this evil smelling stuff. The annual pop corn sale has become a real pain. Bad enough volunteers and families suffer the big guilt trip that is laid very squarely at their feet to do more for FOS. Then there is this sale which when people say "Sorry not this year!" They are made to feel like they are not supporting the cause or worse still are bad people because they refuse to pester the living day lights out of their friends and relations. Th very same people who are being pestered to support the high school bands, clubs, boosters. It's time we took a long hard look at what's going on with our professional staff. Any professional who isn't bring in enough money to cover his salary plus a whole lot more isn't worth keeping. Rather than counting boxes of pop corn these guys should be out and about in the community promoting Scouting, the Council they work for and raising funds. I have no need of a professional to tell me about program, I never liked pros being involved in training. If Scout and Scouting is all about Tour Permits? It really is a sad state of affairs. We might not like to hear it but when it comes to the pros. I say "Show me the money" -Not pester the bejebbers out of me for mine. I gave last week, last month and will keep giving to help the kids that need help. Most of us are working full time and volunteering in what's left of our spare time. If these guys can't raise enough cash to support the Council, the Council that pays them, provides them with a decent job and benefit package. Then they are of little or no use. Eamonn. Ea.

Gary, I agree that it's a sad state of affairs. I'm not so sure about Troops that fail when it comes to basic skills not failing when it also comes to using the methods? I also know a lot of kids who once they get their butts kicked are just willing to throw in the towel and leave it at that. Not all but some kids! I'm willing to bet that if the District Camporees that our District has were all about Scout Skill Competitions the same Troop would always win time after time. Mainly because the adults in that Troop have the skills and have found ways of passing them on and allow Scouts opportunities to use them. Some Troops rely on District events as being their entire outdoor program and if the Scouts don't get the opportunity to learn needed skills at these events, then the opportunity is lost. Eamonn.

Thank You for a job well done! Keep up the good work! Grilled cheese gets my vote! Ea

While I don't know either of the people that your looking for. I also don't know who you are or your reason for wanting to find these people? I kinda think if I did know them that I wouldn't be posting in an open forum or in private where they are without first talking or contacting them. Ea.

"So the solution is to make sure your district camporees are competitions not skill learning events" Sounds great! But... Not a lot of fun for the Scouts who don't have the skills to compete. Ea.

"It's really Jeb Bush's turn in 2012." And there I was thinking it was Chelsea's turn! Rick was supposed to be from to live in PA?? As you might imagine, I never had much time for him. He is a very ambitious little fellow, who is very well connected. But like so many right wing twits he seems to have a knack of opening his mouth, saying something really stupid and then either blaming someones else, being targeted by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, or just trying to do damage control. There was a big fuss near to where I live about where Santorum really lived? The house he was supposed to live in near Pittsburgh was rented out and he lived in Virginia. His kids were enrolled in the Western Pennsylvania Cyber Charter school. When the school announced that it did not believe Santorum met the qualifications for residency status, because he and his family spent most of the year in Virginia. They demanded repayment of tuition costs totaling $67,000. Needless to say like all good right wing twits he weaseled his way out of it all. A Pennsylvania state hearing officer had ruled that the Penn Hills School District had not filed objections to Santorum's residency in a timely manner and dismissed the complaint. Santorum hailed the ruling as a victory against what he termed "baseless and politically motivated charges". (Am I the only person who sees a trend?) The Pennsylvania Department of Education agreed to pay the district $55,000 to settle the dispute over money withheld from the district to pay for the children of U.S. Senator Rick Santorum to attend a cyber charter school. This "Fiscal conservative" was OK with leaving the PA tax-payers to pick up his bills for him. Santorum has frequently stated that he does not believe a "right to privacy" exists under the Constitution, even within marriage. The guy thinks of himself as another Winston Churchill. Churchill was a conservative, a great leader in a time of need and could at times be very funny. Santorum is a conservative. But that's about all. Ea.

I really can never ever not never in a million years see myself handing over one of my cards to someone armed with a smart phone. I'm clever enough to know that the phones are very smart and I'm not. Hackers seem to be doing a great job of hacking into just about any and every place that they have a hankering to do so. Companies are not always very forthcoming in saying that they have been hacked and some guy half a world away is buying guns and drugs at my expense. Sure I know there is a good chance that I might get my money back. But there is a good chance that I could spend many happy hours listening to voice prompts while I try to fix what has happened to my identity and my credit. All because I spent less than fifty bucks on something I don't like to start with? I don't think so. Far better to give the guy a fifty dollar bill and hope that he will when I ask him to put it in the unit funds do so. If he doesn't? Then the unit is hurt and out the fifty bucks and I'm left not knowing but still feeling good that I supported the cause. Eamonn Who is a lot dumber than any smart phone.

Have heard that Spielberg has distanced himself from the BSA because of the gay thing. Ea.

"Baby Boomer's = born between 1945 and 1965." OK so I'm stuck right in the middle! Kudu makes a good point. Very often the Lad that is leading the group in the wrong direction is the natural born leader. Finding ways to tap into his leadership skills not only gets a great leader but also shuts him the heck up. Two birds with one stone. Ea.

Back when my son was a Cub Scout I sold popcorn. I managed to talk a few of my beer distributer pals to hand it out to their customers as a thank you gift. So I was selling it by the case load. One year the Council had a drawing (Isn't that a form of gambling for kids who sold over some set amount for a mountain bike. He won the bike. They also gave the top seller from each District a $100 voucher that could be used for camp. He didn't need the buck so we donated to the Council Campership fund. He kept the bike! Ea. (I still hate the stuff!)

Even as a kid I never liked popcorn. I never eat the stuff and don't like the smell of it. The stuff that our Council pushes is Trails End. Seems way over priced, even for a fund raising pack. Why popcorn? Why not something else? Anything but this evil smelling yucky chicken feed! Just thought I'd mention it. Ea.

" Willful disobedience"! Not exactly sure what generation I belong to? Think it might be the tail end of the boomer's. Still, willful disobedience sounds like something the nuns at Holy Cross might have come up with when I was at school a very long time ago. So step one is lighten up a little. Step two is to look at what happened through the eyes of the people who were doing it. Many of us forget what it was to be a boy and act like a boy. Lads of Scout age really don't act up when they are doing something that they like and enjoy. Working with the PLC plan the things you do looking for fun and enjoyable ways to cover what needs covered. Then train the PLC how to do it. Boys are not by nature sitting animals. The studies that show how long the attention span of a boy and a group of boys seem to be all over the place. I'm a fairly good presenter, and have had lots of training in how to train and teach, but I'll bet that I'd have a hard time holding a group of Scout age boys attention for much more than ten minutes. Look for games that show how things work and then have a discussion with everyone involved participating in the discussion. But at the same time have the leader guide them to where they are supposed to be. If the clown in the group just wants to act like one? Teach the presenters (Youth and adult.) Not to get mad or rise to the bait. But stop. Just stop, don't do or say anything. Allow what can seem like a very long time to pass. In fact it only takes a minute or two. Allow the group to wonder what the hecks going on? Very often the other members of the group will turn on the clown and tell him to go lie down or cut it out. (This even works with hardened convicts!). When the group has settled ask them for their permission to continue. The real trick is in not allowing them to become bored in the first place. Ea.

I'm not an American citizen. My choice. This of course doesn't exempt me from paying all the taxes that others do and that are owed. I can't vote in any American elections. I can and still do vote in the British elections by mail. I think the way the question is worded is unfair. "an obligation to support government spending programs which profess to help other people?" That bit about "Profess to help other people" For me seems to be slanted. It might very well just be me? The programs that are out there to help others do just that. With things as they are today people need help the unemployed still need to eat and still need a roof over their head. Often when the lose their job they also lose their health insurance so they need help with medical coverage. I sure as heck don't want kids going hungry, so there is a need for food stamps or what ever it's called. People need help heating their homes. The list goes on and on. I'm still trying to work out what the real unemployment numbers really are? I think they are a lot higher that the 9.1% that I keep hearing. Sure, most of us have heard and some may even know about people who abuse the help and lie and cheat to obtain things that they might not be entitled too. This is sad and the people who do it are wrong. Still the people in need should get the help we can provide. God forbid we ever have to read about a poor little old lady living off cat food and then freezing to death because some right wing nit nut the programs that would have prevented her death. As a civilized country the benchmark of our civilization is how we tend and look after our poorest and weakest members. I'm with Mr Buffet, I'll gladly pay more in taxes to help the people who need help and then do what's needed to get them back on their feet so they no longer need the help. A country isn't just a piece of land, it's the people who live there, the rich and the poor. Ea.

"Do Scouts and Scouters have an obligation to support government spending programs which profess to help other people?" Looking at the question (Again!) I'm not all that sure that I really understand it. What government spending programs are we talking about? I might not always agree with how the Federal and State Government spent the money that that collect from me. But I don't have the option to withhold a percentage just because I'm not in agreement with how it's being spent. That brings up the word support. Still I understand that I have an obligation to pay my taxes. How I decide to spend or donate my hard earned money and to what causes is up to me. I tend to support things and causes that are close to home, because that's where I live and I think that I can see how and where my money is being spent. Ea. What do you mean by support? I wasn't in favor of the invasion of Iraq. I didn't support it even if the intent was to help the people who live there. I thought the Cash for Clunkers program was just silly, even thought it was supposed to help the people working making cars.

Simply return Scouting to camping? Sounds like a plan. Before I was married as a single adult leader, I was fortunate in having two ASM's who were also single. We all worked Mon -Friday, with weekends off. Getting away to go camping or do outdoor activities with the Scouts wasn't hard. One weekend a month we all were on the Service Team at a UK national camp site (Walton Firs.)So loading a couple of Patrols into the Scout Vans, on that weekend wasn't much work. The Patrols just needed to buy their food for the weekend and load their Patrol equipment in one of the vans. It wasn't unheard of for us to be away three weekends out of four. Without the responsibility of having families spending two weeks at summer camp was also easy. While I'm not an active SM or youth leader at present. I know that them good old days are long gone. Where I work we have fixed pass days. People wait for years to get weekends off, sometimes ten or more years. I'm lucky that our department is small. But when it comes to choosing vacation dates everything is done on seniority. Guys with the most time in pick first and these guys can have six weeks or more vacation time. Some people are left with very slim pickings as dates in the summer months go fast. While I'm guaranteed any leave I put in for as long as not more than one person is off and I give thirty days notice, I can also request days without the thirty days and hope it will be approved. It's not that I don't get a lot of vacation time. I do, with holidays about seven weeks a year. It's just finding time when to take it all. Being married of course means I need to use time for family activities and stuff. HWMBO just wouldn't take very kindly to me not being around for the big holidays or not taking a family vacation. I think it's even harder for guys who have young kids or have both girls and boys at home. When I look at the shambles that the Scout District where I live is in, I am at times tempted to start a Troop. I know this is going to sound very egotistical, but I'd like to just prove that Scouting in my area can work if given half a chance. Still this time restraint thing kinda holds me back. Even though I know that there must be ways of making it work. My pass days are Sunday and Monday so finding twelve or fifteen days for weekend activities wouldn't be hard. I really see spending a week at a Council ran Summer Camp watching Scouts run from Merit Badge class to class as my idea of purgatory, so finding a week in the summer when Scout Camps are up and running is not that important. I'm sure that if the Scouts wanted to attend a Council run camp there are people who could be trained to take them and endure the madness. Then I have yet another problem! As I get older I'm becoming more and more aware that I'm not as patient as I once was. I'm not sure I'm up to dealing with young Boy Scouts and their parents. Eleven year olds would drive me nuts. Before anyone chirps in about Venturing! That's not an option. I see it as a waste of my time and the time of the youth involved. -If it is working for you? That's great! More power to you and keep up the good work. I just know it's not for me. For now I'm kinda happy not doing much. I'm still a member at large. Still donating a few dollars here and there. Have been asked to think about returning as District Chair. But with the way things are going I think the days of the District are not that great and am starting to think that not having the District as I know or knew of it might be a good thing. Or might be yet another step into there not being a Council! Still the big thing would be managing the time factor. Ea.

Basementdweller, Please believe me when I say that I hear stories of unbelievable hardship almost every day. It's so easy to just say that "These people" have made bad choices. Sure it is often very true the choice that ended up with them being in jail was never the smartest choice they ever made. But so many of them at the time felt they had no other choice. They are the victims of poor housing, poor education, poor health care. Areas that if the right wing have their way will all suffer from cut backs. Just yesterday I was talking with an older fellow doing time for burglary. A nice old boy who was living on the streets, sleeping when he could in a city park in Philly, reselling bottles of water that he bought from Wal-Mart when he could and doing odd jobs like yard work when he could find them. He said that he went out of his way to get caught. Winter was coming and he knew that in jail he'd be warm, get three meals a day and have health care. It's costing the PA. Tax payer $68.00 a day to keep this fellow incarcerated. While I know that I'm part of the $68.00! I also know that there has to be a better way of caring and being responsible for people like him. We have here in PA seen most of the State mental hospitals close. The argument being that private insurance now covers the services that these hospital offers. The result is that these mentally ill people end up in jail. They are looked after but are not getting the in depth treatment they really need and when they get out they are still ill and still doing he things that got them into jail to start with. We have a republican governor who seems like a very nice fellow but he got in on a promise of no tax hikes. The guys in Washington are cutting the money that the States get. With the high unemployment the people aren't working or paying into the State taxes, so of course revenue is down. So the State is cutting the cash they give to the Counties and School Districts. The Counties and School Districts are trying to make cuts but they are forced to increase property taxes. So this No Tax Hike agenda is a bunch of BS. It's all a game of pass the buck. Leaving the local guy who ran to sit on the School Board to end up looking like the bad guy. Come the next election the locals will toss this poor smuck out on his ear. No headlines, no fuss just another poor smuck will take his place. While the Governor and his pals will talk about the grand job they did not raising taxes. Meanwhile back in my house my property taxes have gone through the roof. It is just so very dishonest. But worse still is the fact that people who need real help are not getting it and the right wing just doesn't care. Eamonn.

"Why is asking a question in an open forum unfair?" Sorry that didn't come out as I wanted. What I was trying to get across was the fact that as each Lad is different there really is no real down pat answer. I'm not sure how the subject might come up? Boys will talk to each other about subjects that they feel uncomfortable talking to adults about. When it comes to sex? All too often they will say what the other or others want to hear. Sometimes not telling the truth and making up stories. BBC-America has been running The Inbetweeners. A sitcom about four 16 - 17 year old boys growing up. Even though it's a sitcom, it comes very close to dealing with what a group of boys that age deal with. In fact it reminds me about myself and my inner circle of friends when we were that age. One Lad is full of stories about his sexual conquests. All lies, one just follows and seems to believe everything anyone tells him. One is the sensible Lad who doesn't believe a word and questions any and everything, his best friend is also well grounded but still goes to the group for help and advise. The program sometimes is very near the mark, with lots of bad language bleeped out.The boys talk freely about masturbation and other sexual topics. Far more than I remember doing so when I was their age, even to my best friends. Some subjects that were taboo when I was young are now OK? Still, I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation when a Scout would come to me and tell me he was gay. Older Sea Scouts both male and female have voiced the opinion that the BSA gay policy is wrong. Not saying that they are or aren't gay, just that the policy is wrong. While the "Don't ask, don't tell". Is no longer around in the military. I tend to think that it's OK for us in Scouting. There have been Scouts in the District that people suspected of being gay who after they left Scouting came out, there have also been Scouts that no one in a million years would think of as being gay who have also came out. We try our best not to allow youth members to engage in sexual activities at Scouting events. This isn't that hard with male and female Sea Scouts. It is sometimes harder with male Scouts who even if they are not gay will experiment. Many years back I took a Troop to Holland a pal of mine was a Dutch SM.We mixed the Patrols having English Scouts and Dutch Scouts in the same Patrol and sleep in six men tents. One night before I turned in I was checking to see if everything was OK. Outside one tent I overheard the English and the Dutch Scouts having a competition to see who had the biggest penis. I put this down to boys just discovering and experimenting their own bodies more than any real sexual act. I never said anything and went on my way. Ea.

Boy Oh Boy! I's been a tough week. I watched as my home town burned. I tried not to watch as my hard earned invested monies rode the financial roller coaster. All the time telling myself not to worry that I was going to ride it out. Not my idea of fun. The riots in London reminded me of the riots in Paris a couple of years back. The London riots started in an area which is a poor area. The level of unemployment is really high about twice the level as compared to the rest of London. Kids can still leave school in England at 16 years old. At one time these youngsters would be very lightly to serve an apprenticeship,attend some sort of college or trade school and end up with a job. The jobs aren't there, the government has cut what it sees as unnecessary programs. Such as youth centers and places where unemployed teenagers might hang out. The riots in Paris were young men, mostly Muslims from a very poor area of Paris. Again these youngsters were unemployed and some felt that they were being discriminated against just because they were practicing their chosen religion. I haven't been to France for a while. About six years. I have been to London. London is very expensive. The cost of a house in London is out of sight. The only people buying houses are the rich. Still the rich need people to work as teachers,nurses and pick up their garbage. It soon becomes very clear that London is a place for the "Haves" And "The "Have nots." Which is not a good thing. While it's way too late for finger pointing. Maybe we need to remember that much of the mess we are in in both Europe and here closer to home started because banks took on some very risky and very greedy short cuts, while the Government looked the other way. Things are a mess. Something needs to be done and must be done. The idiots here in the Tea Party are willing to risk everything in the hope that cutting government spending will save the day. Sad that most cuts hurt and harm the people who don't have a lot to start with. While we can maybe argue about helping others being a good or a bad thing? I just don't understand how any civilized person can condone hurting or harming the people who are being hurt and harmed already? For me this is just wrong. Plain and simple wrong. By weeks end I had lost a fair amount of money in the market. Almost 3% of what I had in. I'm not happy. But I'll live. I like money. I don't like the idea of being poor or hard up. Still, I feel that I have a duty to help the people who are at risk and most need it. I'm not going to stand outside Wal-Mart handing out $100.00 bills. But I'll gladly pay a little more in taxes to ensure that those who need help get the help that they need. The Bush tax cuts have to go. If we allow ourselves to become a nation of "Haves" and "Have Nots" We will see riots in the cities across the US. There will be a big cry from the idiot Tea Party members for more law and more order. They will forget it was them who cut the police, them that pushed for shorter sentences, them who cut funding for further education. Sometimes helping others is also a way of helping everyone. Eamonn.

Life isn't always easy! That's why they pay us the big bucks!! Asking these type hypothetical type questions in an open forum (Even if it is real for you) Is a little unfair. Scouting is all about relationships. We adults get to know the kids we serve and they get to know us. Each and every Lad is different and needs and deserves to be treated as an individual. We rented a public swimming pool for my son's 16th birthday party. One Lad who was also about 16 was openly gay. He seemed to want to wear the fact that he was like some kind of a badge. Don't get me wrong he was a nice kid and a lot of fun. After I was talking with my son about this Lad and from what my son said it seems that according to this gay Lad, he has participated in gay sex and boasts about it. How true was his boasting? I have no idea. The Lad was a real extrovert and seemed to want to be noticed and wanted to be the life of the party. He attended a couple of Sea Scout dances and was a really outstanding dancer. Some of the Sea Scouts were thinking about seeing if he wanted to join the Ship. He never did and never even asked. What would I have done if he had asked to join? Of course as it didn't happen, it's kinda hard to say. Still I think I would have explained that any sort of inappropriate behavior wasn't allowed. Today's kids are exposed to a lot of things that I wasn't when I was about their age. I have visited friends who have bought their kids laptops. They have said that these laptops are running slow and asked me to look at them. When I did look the kids had downloaded a lot of really hardcore porn. When I was their age, that sort of stuff wasn't as easily available. While I'm not into visiting porn sites! I can see how some of these can confuse young Lads. Maybe they have participated in some activities that they are not proud of? Looked at other boys? Stuff that for the most part is normal for all boys and is not that un-natural. Still when they see it on a gay porn site, they end up thinking that they are gay. I'm not that comfortable talking about sex with youth members (I'm uncomfortable talking about sex with anyone other than my wife.) I like to think that I'd know if one of the Scouts who had been in the Troop for any length of time was participating in inappropriate activities and would deal with them on a case by case basis. If that entailed involving the SE, the Committee or law enforcement? So be it. But a Lad telling me he was gay? I think my first question would be "How do you know?" We have in this forum discussed what the heck a "Avowed Homosexual" might be? Surely a Lad who is confused about his own sexuality, needs all the understanding we can offer. It might be that at some time he has participated in activities that are really more about experimentation than a true sexual relationship? I would wait till after I had finished talking with the Lad and the record (Write down what was said.) Then I'd talk with his parents. It might be that he is indeed gay. Still Scouts and Scouting is as far as I'm concerned "A sex free Zone". We have male and female Sea Scouts in the Ship. The Quarterdeck has come up with a list of things that deal with open signs of affection. In answer to a male and female pair that were boyfriend and girlfriend. I never asked and don't really want to know what this pair got up to away from the Ship. They never said and I sure as heck never asked. We really have no idea what sort of things the adults in our organization get up to away from Scouting. I'm willing to bet we have people who cheat on their spouses and homosexual leaders who keep their sexual preferences well hidden. If the 18 year old JASM, is telling everyone that he is gay and is telling younger Scouts that he is (Didn't we have a thread about this sort of thing not so long back?). I do think that he would have to be removed from the Troop. So much would depend on what action or what the 17 year old Life Scout was involved in that it's impossible to give a fair answer. If he just thinks that he might be gay? That's one thing. If he is involved in a homosexual relationship, which is real and he is telling everyone about it? I think I'd want to meet with him and his parents, before taking any action. I do think it's very important that we, unless we have special qualifications remember that we are volunteers. Lads who are having a hard time working out what their sexual identity really is are going through an emotional roller-coaster. They can be very venerable, so we need to always try and do what's best for the Lad. While at the same time looking after the other Lads in the Troop or Ship (And Crew) Thinking, and maybe knowing? Is OK but participating in activities that make others uncomfortable or harm others just can not be tolerated. Eamonn

And there I was checking my belly button! Sea Scouts and Sea Scout Ships tend to be more "outies". Doing things with other Ships and participating in activities where Ships from a large area come together. I'm thinking of in our area the Winter Training in Maryland, the Regattas and the activities we have done with other Ships. Maybe because we are so few? Maybe because the Sea Scout program is so structured? Or maybe it's just because Sea Scouter's are the cream of the crop? (Some with very sexy knees!) Ea.