Eamonn

I'm not in favor of this sort of thing. While the Scouts who see their adult win or do well in a competition will or might see him or her as some sort of super hero? What take home message do the Scouts who watch their adult leader lose bring home? While of course we expect adults to act in such a way that they do set a good example, some adults when it becomes a competition forget this and winning becomes the be all and end all, everything else goes out the window. Adults behaving badly is not the example we need. Our role as Scouter's isn't about proving how good or how fast we are. Our role is to provide a program for the youth we serve. Eamonn

The best gifts are an honest and true evaluation of the course and you completing your ticket. Any and everything is unnecessary and unneeded. Welcome to the forum. Ea.

Basementdweller I think many of us have a camp that we love. For those of us who have been around for a while, we have seen and a lot of times helped make the improvements. Many Councils have a core of hardworking guys who seem to live up at camp year round working away to do what they think will enhance the camp and make it better. I'm not that handy or skilled when it comes to construction, I can drive a tractor, manage a wheel borrow and make a fairly good laborer. But I just don't have the time to spend the time that others do, so I'm happy to write the odd check and help pay for the materials that are needed. As times change, the expectations of what is needed and what is wanted do change. Campers 30 years or so back were OK with the out houses, I'm not sure if the young campers we have going to camp today would even use an outhouse? The small creek wasn't big enough for swimming so the pool came. Then we needed a lake for boating. I remember teaching rappelling when we had two tent platforms nailed between two trees. Today we have a rappelling and climbing tower. The old camp office was a building built by the Civilian Conservation Corps back in the 1930's, it has been replaced by a new building that has A/C heat, offices, the first aid station and a fair sized room that can be used for indoor training. It's nice, but ran almost $100,000 over budget. In many ways we are victims of our own good intentions. Add to that, that the squeaky wheel gets the oil and at times we allow someone else's vision of what's needed be the driving force. Some of the best summer camps that I've ever had have been in a farmers field with chemical toilets and one standpipe for water, cooking over wood fires. I tell Scouts that the BSA National Jamboree is the Disney World of Scouting but Philmont is Boy Scout Heaven. The Jamboree is jam packed with things to do and different activities to try, but Philmont is a test of Scouting skills in the most wonderful of settings. While I support our Council Camp, the idea of me having to spend a week there with a Troop is not something that I'd ever look forward to or ever want to do. Maybe because it is too organized and the idea of Scouts running from MB class to class is so very foreign to me? Still a lot depends on so many different factors: Experience: Of both the Scouts and the adult leaders. I can and do see why a new leader might want to start off trying summer at a well run well organized Council Camp, young Scouts might be better of trying their first summer at the Council camp. What the Scouts want to do /What's on offer: If the PLC comes up with an idea that is best accomplished at such and such a place, then that's where we need to go. It's good that different sites and different areas offer so many different things to do. A real case of different courses for different horses! I do fear that we are in danger of making our Scout camps so much like home away from home that at some point it just isn't worth going to camp. -You might just as well stay at home. You can never take the program away from Scout Camping. A camp with the most up to date facilities where the Scouts are bored is going to be a waste of everyone's time. But a camp that might not have the best facilities where the Scouts are active and having lots of fun will be a winner. A very good pal of mine takes his Troop to camp for a week each year on a little island. There's nothing there, just them and nature. One of his P/L's came and said "Hey Jeff, I've mastered the art of pooping in a zip lock bag!" Jeff asked how he got rid of it? The Scout informed him that he burnt it! Jeff said "Doesn't that stink up your Patrol site? The Scout replied "I use one of the other Patrols fire!" As Barry posts -I love this Scouting stuff!

Phil rarely fails to see his shadow. I kinda think he knows that this is the halfway point of winter and in six weeks spring will be in the air. More importantly it's about the time when a lot of the Christmas goodies are about done. The cookies that HWMBO has rationed out from the freezer are about done. The candy bowl only has the candy is empty apart for the candy that no one likes. I did notice a box of chocolates that somehow managed to not get opened. I'll work on that next week. There is still a lot of adult beverages left. They might come in handy if we get hit by a really cold spell or a blizzard. I kinda think what's in the fridge will not live long after the super bowl. Maybe now is the right time for that long winter nap that I missed out on? Ea.

Sometimes it's hard to really know what the FOS guy means when he talks about camp. Our Council summer camp is in a State Park. The Council leases the land. But owns the buildings. Without visiting the Council web site, I'm not sure exactly how long we have been there. It's a fairly long time. -1949 seems to ring a bell! I really don't think that anyone has a good idea of how much money has been spent on buildings and improvements. Much if not most of the improvements have been done with volunteers doing the labor. I don't think it would be that hard to go out to the community and ask for a large donation for a specific thing. Which might have a big price tag. A donation of $250,000 or even $500,000 isn't that hard to come by. What is hard is paying for the smaller everyday things that either wear out or just break. When I was doing FOS presentations, I'd talk about toilet roll holders! The camp has a lot of toilets and these things cost about $10.00 -$15.00 each. Lots of people will want to have their name on a nice building, but when it comes to toilet roll holders? Not so much. Camps cost a lot of money to run and maintain. As for need? I'm not sure. Back home in England, at least when I lived there. Scout Camps tended to be a piece of land where you could set up tents, had a small store where Scouts could buy snacks and bread and milk with some having an activity that might be available. No big staff, no catered meals. Maybe just a paid ranger as staff? Nearly all the Troops in the Council I'm in, do tend to summer camp at the Council Summer camp. Without the Council Camp, I'm unsure how many Troops would get away to camp every summer? The camp is close for most parents to get to and visit. In fact most parents do visit. With the average age of the campers falling this seems to be important. Most Troops don't have enough transportation to take away a large group of Scouts and the needed equipment for a week, without enlisting a large group of parents. Much as I hate to say it, I'm not sure if the leaders have enough imagination to keep a group of Scouts busy doing interesting activities for a week. The Council also owns a fairly large piece of land which was donated back in the early 1960's. Other than a few wells and out-houses it has never been improved. A few years back when the Council was having some financial problems they talked about selling it. I was 100% against the sale. My argument being that we didn't own the land where summer camp is and there is nothing to say that for what ever reason someday we might lose it. The argument on the other side was that we'd never have the money to make it attractive to to-days campers. I was in a strange situation, I was arguing against the sale, but had it been placed on the market, I would have bought it and developed it. Ea.

As I posted I'm OK with paying my own way. But have to admit that I was a little upset about what the NE-Region charged for the weekend Course Directors conference. I really can't remember the exact amount, but $225.00 seems to be stuck in my head. Add the cost of having to take a day off from work to get there, the cost of getting there and it was a very costly weekend. Again this was a cost that was not allowed to be part of the WB budget. Sad thing was that it wasn't even that good, but a requirement in order to be CD. Ea.

Have to say that I've never thought of myself as a muckity-muck! I do get invited to nearly all the Wood Badge Feasts and I've never ever thought of offering to pay. I'm as a rule too busy or just too lazy to attend. An invite means that I will blow the best part of a day and I really don't see a need for me to be there. But, just as I don't expect guests that I invite to go out for dinner to pay. I see the fact that I was invited makes me a guest and I never ever in a million years thought of offering to pay. I get invited to a lot of B&G banquets and COH where food is served, I don't offer to pay at them. People seem more upset by the fact that I don't attend than me attending and not paying. Ea.

Most (Not all.) Of the kids I know, over 12 rarely leave the house without their phone. As someone who tries really hard to avoid ever answering a phone and who forgets to turn on his phone and also forgets to recharge it, I don't really understand the need to be available and in touch 24/7. But I'm OK with not understanding it. -There's a lot of things that I don't understand. I think this cell phone debate will go on for a long time, but at the end of the day the cell phone and young people having and using them is going to win. Up until a few months back I seen my cell phone as a phone! A device I used mostly just in case of emergencies along with the odd call home to say that I'd be running late or was in the supermarket and ask if there was anything that needed picked up. I didn't use it as a camera or an alarm clock, flashlight, GPS, calculator. I didn't send videos or surf the web. I also never sent texts, mainly because I wasn't good at texting and it just seemed like a waste of time. That changed a few months back when my department took away our pagers and informed us that we were going over to receiving text messages. (Which I think was a bad idea!) I'm getting better at writing texts and I'm starting to use my phone not just as a phone, but more like a mini computer. Before I got my i-pad, I visited the Apple web site. The tutorial was given by very young kids aged about ten or twelve. It made the point that these kids didn't know the world without the Internet and had never known a world without the things that old fogies like me think of as being high tech. For them this is just what it is and has always been so. So even if I don't really understand it all? I have to admit that I do find it kinda of exciting. I'm sorry I don't buy into the extra cost or expense argument. A lot of the activities we do require things that cost money. I look at what I've spent on boots, rain suits, stoves, tents and other hiking gear and I see a lot of money spent. As for activities at a Camporee? I look at things that have really happened when I've been out in the woods. I've came across deer with broken legs and needed to look up the numbers of the Game Commission, I've found stray dogs and needed to look up and call the local dog catcher, I've found dogs that have been hit by cars and needed to find out where the local emergency animal hospital is. I've been in areas where gas wells are leaking While of course 911 covers most emergency situations, Scouts could come across situations that require them to think about who they need to call and find the number. I feel sure that a group of Scouts and Scout Leaders could get together and use their imagination to come up with an entire list of ways of using cell phones and the like at a Camporee. I'm guessing that the Scouts who participate would find it a heck of a lot more interesting than the same old same old, some might even think that it's kinda cool. Ea.

Welcome to the forum. I was the Council Training Chairman when we changed from Staff not paying. I took a fair amount of heat because of the change. I was OK with me paying my way and my fair share of real costs. Others were a little upset. As a unit leader I' always paid my own way and the thought of youth members in any way subsidizing me was and is one that I find to be just wrong. So why should training be any different? Different Councils have come up with different formulas of what the real cost is and isn't. Some seem to have just plucked a number out of thin air, that sounds kinda fair while others have tried to work out what the actual cost is. The argument about it being an honor to be a staff member? Really is a load of hog wash. But the way I see it is that if I were at home I'd still have to pay for my meals and other stuff. The budget for a Wood Badge course can be a tricky thing. We once had a SE who passed on a lot of the costs from the camp that the course just didn't use, on the other side of the coin we had a SE who didn't charge the course any of the overhead costs from the camp. The CD along with the Training Chair does need to sit down and go over the budget line by line with the SE or whoever is in charge, so as to avoid any ill feelings. Sure if the course makes money the choice is to return it to the participants or have it go into the Council coffers. Most times it goes to the Council. But again this needs to be discussed and worked out ahead of times. I'm not a CPA. You might want to check and see what the tax implications are for paying and not paying. I think that I might be guilty of cheating a little as I tend to just lump all the checks that I write to the Council together and use them all as a donation. I have been audited a few times but the IRS never said or asked about this. Not paying might be seen as some sort of income or payment. But you need to talk to someone who really knows what they are talking about. Ea.

Some years back I realized that I was guilty of not telling my son that I loved him. It hit me that it was strange that I never ever leave the house without telling HWMBO that I love her, yet I'd just tell my son to drive carefully and not to drink and drive. I do spend a lot of time with my dogs and tell them how good they are, yet I wasn't telling my son how proud I am of him and the good work that he is doing. "Precious". Is a wonderful word that we just don't use often enough when it comes to our own children. We need to use it more. I am of course saddened to hear of the loss of any young person. Things are just not supposed to go that way. Over the years that I've been involved working with kids, my heart has been broken a few times by the death of really great kids. I've never and hope with all my heart that it never ever happens to me, I just don't know what I'd do? So when it happens to others, I have to admit to being at a real loss of what to say and what to do. I think it's then when I feel fourtunate that I have my religion and can fall back on it. Even if at times me and God are not seeing things eye to eye. Ea.

Being as a lot of sea scouts use boats that use some sort of petrol product to power the boat safe and proper handling of gas when filling tanks is very important. Sea Scouts,do eat!! so they have a need to dispose of garbage and empty on board toilets correctly. Boats being transported from place to place do need to be cleaned to ensure that things like Zebra mussels are not being transported. When I was CD for a course I looked at Varsity and it turned out that we didn't have any in the Council and had never had any ever, the same was true of the 4 other Councils represented by participants on the course. I did send off to National and had them send me all the free material that was available, one Staff member gathered a lot of information which was used as a hand out. But other than that it just seemed silly dwelling on something that just wasn't there and had never been there. Of course if we were out West? That might be a different case. Ea.

Most of the people who are selected to serve as staff members on WB courses are busy people to start with. Sometimes we forget just how busy other people can be and how many other activities some people are active in. Even if you do have a friendly style of communicating sometimes when you (Not you personally!) Send out "Lets start sharing ideas email.. Here are some photos I have collected for organizing my first flip book, here a flipbook or two on the web that you can use for a base and alter.. " It can be taken as being a little pushy or as you being a little needy. (Again, I'm not saying that you are!) Just like participants who take the course sometimes return to their units and want to change the world because they are on a Training High, some staff members feel the need to dive in at the deep end and sometimes do a Little too much. Presenting a WB course is in some ways like pouting on a play. The syllabus is the script the CD is the director. While the CD has signed a document saying that he or she will present the course as it is, he or she does bring a vision of how he wants things to go. While I think the TG's are very important and vital staff members when I was a CD I wanted them to of course stick to the syllabus. I also wanted them to buy into my vision and not go wandering off and doing their own thing. One of my big jobs was to sell them my ideas and my vision so that they would buy in and follow my direction. Sadly I had one guy who just wasn't able to do this and I had no choice but to remove him from the staff. My expectations of Troop Guides when I was CD was that they would be loyal to the course, that is that they would present the material as it was written and be loyal to the other staff members. Their most important role was being there for the members of their patrol. Over 90% of the questions that they will be asked will boil down to matters of opinion and will not be covered by the syllabus. A good Troop Guide is the most important person for his or her patrol. Like it or not sometimes trying to organize or help other busy Scouter's is like herding cats. They are very busy to start with before they undertook serving as a staff member. Many are used to being the guy at the top and have their own way of doing things and getting things done. The way and ways they get things done might be very different than the way you do? After sending one email I'd step back and wait to see what happens. If nothing happens? That's OK. Go back and read the syllabus again and look for all the ways that you can ensure that the members of your Patrol will get the most out of the course. This is best done by a really good and deep understanding of what is in the syllabus. Take my word for it nothing that is in that syllabus is there by accident. Even a cheap pen comes back to make a point. (No! I'm not saying where!) Ea.

Not so sure that I'd use the word hate? It seems to me that when it comes to Scouts and Scouting, not just the BSA, but other Scouting organizations / Associations, most of the time there isn't any middle ground. People tend to either support what they think is going on or have it in for what they think is happening. A lot of people really have very little idea what real Scouting is all about. A few years back I was asked to contact some very wealthy people and ask them for large donations. I was surprised how little they knew and understood about Scouts and Scouting. Maybe part of the fault was mine? I tended to take it for granted that "Everyone" knew what we did and try to do. At the risk of upsetting some forum members. I think when it comes to asking for big donations, people don't want to hear about Scoutcraft and skills. They like hearing about character building and making ethical choices. - They don't want to think that their money is being used for some kind of a camping club. I'm sometimes teased when people find out that I'm involved in Scouting. I hear about "Liking little boys." - Sad thing is that sometimes this garbage does come from people who were themselves Scouts. A lot of times when I take the time to explain what Scouting is really about and go over some of the things that we have done at the local level, this bring people around. Of course there are some people who are never going to change. They have closed their mind and nothing will ever open it. Ea

As someone who watches American politics from the side lines. Seeing what the Republicans are going through has been great entertainment. I keep hearing how bad things are and that the economy is in the toilet but still there seems to be a lot of money out there for these guys to attack each other and call each other nasty names. Back in the day, when I was a young man living in England. Supporters of the Labour Party were depicted as working class, cloth cap wearing, union card carrying guys who wanted to change things and make life better for the working class. On the other side of the aisle were the conservatives, the upper class, bowler hat wearing guys who sounded like they had a mouth full of pebbles when they spoke. These guys wanted to give the impression that they knew best, knew their way around finances. Neither was really true but both made life a little easier for political cartoonists. In past American Presidential Elections the word values has been brandished around a lot. Under the heading of values, just about any and everything seems to be fair play. When it comes down to selecting a president? I'm not so sure that people are really worried a role model. While of course America is America and not Europe. Still if we look at some of the European presidents, we see presidents from France and Italy who might seem better suited to leading Playboy Magazine than leading a country. Turn the clock back a few decades and it seems that there were places that the press didn't seem comfortable with going and things that the press was OK with turning a blind eye too. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Like it or not everyone has flaws. What flaws are OK? Or which are just unacceptable, tends to change over time. I went to see the movie Iron Lady yesterday. While Maggie was never one of my choices. Who would have ever thought that the English of all people would ever elect a female Prime Minister? Back then being a female was seen a flaw. On the same hand who ever thought that th Americans would ever elect a black African American as president? But when it comes to being a role model? Maggie and Obama are wonderful role models, one for women all over the world and the other for ethnic groups. I think each of us has our own values and our own prejudices. It might be that the most qualified candidate has or does something that maybe as an individual we just are unable to get past? It seems to me that here in th USA that a lot of the baggage is not as big as it once was. Still I'm not sure if there are still some things that a lot of people might have problems with. A gay president? A Muslim president? Maybe the election of a president in some way reflects the morale feeling of the country? Maybe it in some ways reflects the values of the country? Or maybe even in these tough times it'd just become a race where the guy with the biggest piggy bank wins? Ea.

Things would be a lot easier if the guys and girls who were going to do bad things wore a big sign that told everyone what they were going to do. If the guys who were going to try and blow up airplanes wore signs saying "I'm going to blow up planes." We could all keep our shoes on when we travel by air. Big stores like Wal-Mart could save millions knowing who the shoplifters were. I don't ever expect it will happen. Background checks and the like can help keep people who have a history of this sort of thing from being allowed in. But as we have seen with all the goings on at Penn State, not only do people that are deemed un-lightly to be perverts get in but some get away with it for a very long time. While us being aware of who is around and who is doing what? The best we can hope for is that we do everything possible to train the youth in our care how to keep themselves safe. It's never going to be fool-proof. These perverts pick and choose their victims and look for the opportunity to pounce. Here once they get caught some of them have the very big misfortune of having to spend a lot of quality time with me in the "Big House". Ea.

Have to admit that until I read this I'd never heard of Boston Butts. But coming from a land where Toad in the hole is seen on some menus! I'll just keep quiet. Ea. Toad in the hole is sausages cooked in a Yorkshire Pudding Batter.

First let me address "That is because you have your fingers jammed into your eyes and ears:" I think this was totally unnecessary and added nothing to the discussion. Not sure? But I think I was kinda late noticing Vision and Mission statements. The first one I ever seen was on the back of a beer salesman's business card about 20 years back. Not long after that these vision and mission statements seemed to pop up all over the place and it wasn't long till the BSA came up with the first one. Which as far as I know has been revised slightly. JMHawkins posts " Scoutcraft is making things out of Scouts. The "things" you're making generally being... honorable men." This is my kind of thinking. When I looked over the Federal Charter I didn't see any mention of what the expected end result might be. Something that the Vision and Mission statement spells out fairly clearly. I've been watching Downton Abbey on TV. This second serious starts showing England in 1916. The Great War is going on and in part because the war is happening there is a lot of change happening in England. A lot of the old ways and the class system is being challenged and as we know soon after the war things do change and never return to the way that they were. One of the biggest changes was in the way working class people seen the world and looked upon the upper classes. This was a big change in values. While some values remain and have remained, things like the good stuff found in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Peoples expectations have changed and with this there has been a change in values. I'm not sure about anyone else? But I'm very aware that the world today is a different place than the world I grew up in. Lots of things have played a part in this change and this change has at times forced me to look at things that maybe I might never have looked at and this has at times altered my view of the world and has effected my values. The young people we work with and serve today live in a time where there is a lot more information at hand and they are exposed to a lot of different points of view. Where as for example, I was born in an Irish Catholic home, went to Roman Catholic Schools and never really questioned my religion. Because the information I was given in many ways said that this is the way it is and I just accepted it. Going back to: " Scoutcraft is making things out of Scouts. The "things" you're making generally being... honorable men." We have this year watched what has been called the Arab Spring, people mainly young people demonstrating against governments, clashing with police and sometimes being arrested. In some parts of the world these young people are hailed as being heroic and are seen as being right. The information from where all of this is happening is being passed on at lightning speeds. Any young person with a smart phone or an Internet connection can receive this information almost in real time. Are the young people who are being arrested honorable men? How do the young people we serve process this information? Does it effect their values? If we are just a outdoor camping organization or camping club then all of this stuff really doesn't matter. We can spend our time discussing the pros and cons of wet-pits. While the core values that were around on June 15, 1916 may not have changed I do think that the world is a very different place today then it was back then. Ea.

I've volunteered at the District level. I've done my bit to help the District do it's bit to meet the goals of the Council. As District Chair. One of the hardest jobs I undertook was working with the District Advancement Committee to ensure that we were able to offer a District List of MBC's. My goal was to ensure that if a Scout was interested in a badge that a MBC was available. The District Advancement Committee and the Dean of Merit Badges did their best to try and ensure that those on the list were qualified to cover the badge. I see this as the job of the District Committee and the Advancement Committee. I do not see offering Merit Badge Universities a role or a job for the District or the Council. While there are required badges that some Scouts only do because they are required, the idea of earning or getting a badge should come from the Scout. My thinking is that Scouts go for the badges that are about things that Scouts have an interest in or maybe are lucky enough to be good at. The idea of any sort of a Merit Badge University is so far away from what I believe the advancement method is or should be about of course means that I'm never going to support them and have no interest in improving, other than hoping that they never happen in the first place. Ea.

Have to admit that I'd never given the Congressional Charter a lot of thought. I'd never looked at it as being a law. I don't know enough about the law or Congressional Charters as to know who looks too see if the organization is doing what the charter says it should be doing? Or what happens when it is found out that th group is no longer doing it? I do know that there are laws on the books in some places that have never been taken off the books that make some things we do take for granted illegal. Here in PA theres a law on the books that reads: Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. I'm not for a minute saying that the Federal Charter granted to the Boy Scouts of America falls under the heading of "Dumb Laws". I'm just not sure that I'm understanding it. Sec. 30902. Purposes reads: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. I'm OK with us working with other agencies, I'm fine with boys doing things for themselves and others. I don't have a problem with teaching patriotism and self-reliance. I'm not so sure that courage can be taught or learned? But I think maybe this might fall under personal development. I have tried looking up the word Scoutcraft and there really isn't a very clear meaning to be found. I know what a Boy Scout is! A lot of the time I can work out what a Craft is. When it comes to Woodcraft, needlecraft and that sort of thing I'm fine. But Scoutcraft? If woodcraft is working with wood? Then Scoutcraft is working with Scouts?? -No. That doesn't seem to fit. Then there is all this stuff about: Using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. I'm not so sure I've got that bit. So what's your take on all of this? Are we as an organization no longer following the charter? Are we guilty of breaking the law? Is the charter even worth thinking about? Please don't bother trying to re-direct me to a web site that tells me what Scouts did back in 1916. I'm trying to see if the charter is relevant to the kids we are working with in the 21st Century. Eamonn

Kids,especially boys are strange animals. There are times when they will eat any and everything in sight. There are other times when food holds little or no interest for them. Cub Scouts who have spent the day at camp, doing what kids that age do and using the energy that boys that age use will eat the south end of a north bound skunk. But gather a big group of Cub Scout age Lads together for a B&G and just because they are together and this holds a lot of excitement for them, food loses interest. I do believe that when planning a menu the person doing the planning needs to be aware of who is going to be doing the eating. Age, ethnic origin, religion and maybe even gender are things that are worth thinking about. I believe that some foods are more kid friendly than others. If I were to plan a menu for a Cub Scout weekend camp, my goal would be to ensure that the menu did its best to accommodate the likes of that age group. I don't think I'd serve a Eel and sea urchin fricassee. Talking with the chef at our club where he says no matter what he puts on the menu, the older members are happy with the same old Prime Rib and a baked potato. -That's why Prime Rib is the special every Saturday. So while I'm happy and think that educating the palate of our younger generations is a good thing. I also think that there is a time and a place for this. I'm not sure that the annual B&G Banquet is the time or the place? As Scouter's we see these "Big Events" as being something that's very important. However not all parents see things the same way as we do. Back when I was a CM we held our B&G on a Sunday afternoon. Mainly because this was when the church hall was available. We want and need the parents of the kids we serve to be interested and involved in what we are doing. We need their support. Reminding people why we are here is great, but it's worth remembering that without the support of the adults and the parents there is no reason for us to be here. When parents get too busy to bring their son to our meetings all the hard work we did in recruiting goes out the window. If you want and expect me as a parent to vacate my easy chair, give up my TV, leave my nice warm house and give up my Sunday afternoon? Maybe, just maybe you might want to think about doing something that might make it worth my while. I have to say in my case a few chicken nuggets and macaroni with cheese is not the carrot I need. So knowing that no matter what is on the menu, the chances are that the Cub Scouts are not that interested and will not eat very much. The question becomes who are you really feeding? I say it's the parents. But that's just my opinion. Ea.

Kudu Help me out a little. I said: "For the most part Lads join to have fun and take on new and exciting challenges. They leave when they don't have fun and they become bored. " You replied: "The Congressional Charter defines (by statute) those "exciting challenges" to be "Scoutcraft." A little time later you say: "As Course Director your duty is to kick the Scoutcraft out of Baden-Powell's Scoutcraft course, and by your example here teach adults to hold the law in contempt: The law that defines Scoutcraft not as a mere "Method" of Scouting, but as its Purpose." Seems to me that in one breath you and I are in agreement and then you have a change of heart and want to see things in a different light. Maybe we need to look at what is meant by the word Scoutcraft? Are we talking about skills? If that's the case? Then I've never lost the skills I learned as a little fellow and as an adult I've been happy to include and use them as part of a program that offers fun and excitement along with challenges for the Scouts that I've led. Are we going deeper? Are we talking about the Lad who learns the importance of living the Scout oath and law, who performs a good deed each day and sees why doing so is important and very much part of being a Scout. Again I'd have to say that I've not given up on any of that. Your dislike for the new WB is known. I am a little surprised that you chose to get a little dig in about it in this thread. Sure I've been involved in WB courses, Boy Scout, Cub Scout old courses and the 21st Century course. While I do think that all the courses had and have value, I've never thought that spending six or seven days on a course teaches everything you need to know about anything. While I don't hold myself up as being anything special I do see that I was very fortunate, in that I joined a very well run Troop as a little Lad. I did learn the outdoor skills, I worked under different P/L's some who were even at a very young age good leaders, some who were just terrible! Still I learned from both. While back when I was a Lad there wasn't so much talk about Leadership and Leadership Skills, leadership was part of what we did. Patrol Leaders were in charge of their Patrol and were expected to lead and live up to the expectations placed upon them. So yes I was fortunate, I learned all of this over a number of years. As a WB Course Director, I presented different tools that participants could use or might use that might help them understand leadership and might help them become better leaders. Leaders not only of our youth members but also of the adults. While at this time there isn't much talk about Congress taking away the charter, it has been talked about in the past. I'm not sure what the lightly hood of it not being around really is? But I'm wondering what would happen to your argument if it was rescinded? Ea.

A once active forum member emailed me some little time back when I was going off about how things in the district were going down hill. He said that a builder builds a house. He uses all his skill and know how to build the best house that he can. Once the house is built, he moves on. The people who buy the house can if they want change everything. They can allow the house to fall into a state of disrepair. It is after all their house and the builder has no control over what happens to it. I'm happy that I did my bit. Did what I thought was important and for the best. Sure it's sad to see things not work out. But that's life.You only have to look back at the great empires of the past. Ea

"The Congressional Charter defines (by statute) those "exciting challenges" to be "Scoutcraft."" OK! I might just call it "Program" -But it's as long as it is wide. Scouts don't care much if something is called a Statement, a method or a statue. They just want to be part of something that they deem to be enjoyable. Us bashing each other over the head and quoting things that long dead English Lords might or might not have said might be fun for us adults. But that 12 year old little fellow? Not so much. Ea.

Have just found out that the powers that be? Have met and our Council which last week had four Districts, this week is down to only three. The writing has been on the wall for some little time now. So it's not really a shock. Still this District is the District that I served as Chairman and District Commissioner of for a decade. While it now might seem like all the work that was put in was a waste of time. I like to think that those of us who served back then did our best to serve the units and the Scouts in the units at that time. The DE I worked with back then just sent me an email that starts "OMG". She just can't accept that the Council has allowed the District to fold. Her thinking seems to be that managed right things could be as good as they once were. Sadly I'm not so sure. While we were very unlucky to have got lumbered with a lazy good for nothing DE. Who arrived at a time when things in the Service Center were a real mess. His boss was moving to a new Council the week that he started, the next guy was there only a few weeks when he got arrested for molesting his son's girl friend and the SE at the time was a twit. Who knew that his days were numbered. I think that we might have been able to recover from the damage done in the two years that the DE was around if we the volunteers had moved a little faster. But it was about this time when I was having back surgery and then HWMBO became ill. It has been sad to watch as units that not so long back were strong and well run have fallen and folded. I have a hard time not understanding where the good people went? I don't understand why the volunteers that did come on board just didn't seem to care? It was almost like they were just passing through. The District is being divided up into the other remaining Districts. A couple of these are not very strong. I'm sure that some of the remaining old timers will be upset and will just throw in the towel. The thing that "Got Us" Was of course membership. I'm not sure and of course will never really know but I do think that had we had a better and more involved Commissioner Support Team we might have been able to help prevent the losses that we had or at least better support the new adult leaders who did step up to the plate. Of course with the loss of youth members the financial challenges were great. There were less popcorn sellers, less people to ask to support FOS and less community involvement. Another thing that hurt was allowing the District Committee to fall apart, not seeking out new faces and allowing people who had too much on their plates already and who were tired already to fill positions that they had little enthusiasm for. Flogging a dead horse who doesn't have a goal, just doesn't work. I had been approached by the District Chair. To replace him when the District rechartered. It seems that the Nominating Committee was just down to the Key 3 and they weren't getting very far. I looked at how things were and to be honest seen that the task was more than I was willing to take on. So while I didn't say no. I did drag my heels. At least now I'm off the hook! As I look at the other Districts I see that maybe having these few extra units might help in the short term for a little while. But membership is down Council wide. The Council Commissioner is patting the Commissioner staff on the back saying what a wonderful ratio we have of Commissioners for X number of units! -Not that hard when the units are no longer there. Sad thing is that there isn't any Council of about the same size near by that if we should merge would offer our volunteers the service that they were used to. We have a big metro Council that is so big everyone becomes just a number. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I was on the District Charter as a Member at large but being as there is no longer a District?? I suppose if I don't recharter as a ??? I'm done. Oh Well! Ea.

"We should all know the "official" Eight (9?) Methods of Scouting. There is the Mission Statement and the Vision Statement..." "Our only mission should be the "Three Purposes of Scouting," as set by statute in our Congressional Charter:" Strange how some of us adult type members can get our knickers in a twist about this stuff. As SSScout posts kids join and remain in Scouts for a lot of different reasons. But so far I've yet to meet a Lad who joined to have a character rebuild or become more ethical or because he wanted to do his bit to live up to the Purposes of Scouting, as set by statute in our Congressional Charter. For the most part Lads join to have fun and take on new and exciting challenges. They leave when they don't have fun and they become bored. Maybe it's a good thing that us adults discuss and at times do get a little worked up about what we see as the purpose of what we are doing? Still I'll bet my last dollar that if asked SSScout, Kudu and maybe little old me plan and carry out a Scouting event where the Scouts do have fun, do face new challenges and might more than lightly learn a little something along the way. Should this ever happen? I'll bet that we'd be so busy with the event that all these great ideals might have to take a back burner. Of course I could be wrong? - But I doubt it. Ea.