Eamonn

Which Council hosted the course? Eamonn.

Imagine the theme music from the Twilight Zone playing in the background At our last Quarterdeck Meeting, we were almost done when four of the Petty Officers ganged up on me!! They informed me that I wasn't helping them!! They went on to say that they thought maybe I was trying to be too nice. They really want a deadline to be a deadline. (Yes I'm a sucker for a hard luck tale) They want all activities to be prepaid. (I'm still a sucker for a hard luck story.) They want no refunds. (I'll talk to the Ship's committee on that one.) Eamonn.

Well Done Sir. Glad to have another Bear in the forum. Seems to be way to many Beavers. Gilwell is a happy Land. I'm sure that you will do your best to try and make wherever the Scouts you serve and you are will be likewise. There are times when I read the postings in this forum that I worry and am concerned about the fact that we may have forgotten that fun is the fuel of Scouting. Our Scouts vote with their feet, if they aren't having fun and we aren't providing them the challenges they need, they will walk away. Once that happens all the other good stuff is just words. Eamonn.

I'm not sold on the five Venturing Specialties. In our small town we have what used to be called Showtime Theater, they have changed things and it's now a Center for the performing arts. When the changes were under way I was asked to attend one of their board meetings and talk about Venturing. I think because the new manager they had hired had been a ASM at one time? I was District Chairman at the time. I also knew nearly all the members of the board. -It's a small town. I like to think that I gave a good presentation. The board seemed impressed and were all for it. I left them saying that they needed to think about getting a committee together and finding adult leadership. Time past. Nothing happened. I left a few messages. I left some BSA publications. After a while the manager called me. She explained that much as she would love to take on the Crew, she really didn't have time. But she asked me where in the materials I'd given her it said anything about a Crew in a theater. We both looked and after a while found something that covered about half a page. They never did find any adults. The last I heard was that the DE had signed up as the Advisor. The other week they called and asked if the Sea Scouts would be willing to act as ushers for a play they were putting on. I asked where their Crew members were and was informed that they don't have any. Maybe I'm an old stick in the mud? But what does the BSA know about theater? To my way of thinking we ought to stick to the stuff we are good at. If along the way a youth member is involved in something we can find a way of using that something for advancement. This Venturing Specialties thing isn't working, it's just making the program more confusing. The time for a rethink is now. What we have is a mess that doesn't work. Venturing can work, but we need to stop looking at it as a program for older Boy Scouts. We don't look at Boy Scouts as a program for older Cub Scouts. I'd be happy to not allow Venturers to work on Boy Scout ranks and leave that stuff in the Troop. While a lot of the things that a Lad may have learned in a Troop will be useful, Venturing and Sea Scouting needs to start over making sure that youth led is just that.That means that we the adults have to train the officers. I don't care what they have done in Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. This is a program that is new to them and we need to ensure that they understand that fact. We need to start beating on all of our District and Council Committees, so they understand that unless we put the same effort into catering to the older youth in our communities, start putting as much effort into providing opportunities to join, to advance, to camp, to get the adults trained, to have fun.It isn't going to work. We really are missing the boat. I look at the numbers of Total Youth Served in our District. For Cub Scouts we are in the 26% range For Boy Scouts we are in the 21% range For Venturing we are less than 1%. We are missing 99% of the kids out there who could be in our programs. I think part of this is due to the fact that the program is so confusing that no one understands it and because they don't understand they are happy doing nothing. Eamonn.

White sheets? Masks? No -That's a District Activity !! (First Aid!!) I was thinking of the 1969 gathering. There is a rumor that the baby born at the event is now a COR of a Crew that is chartered by a Motel chain!! - I don't think it's true. Peace. Eamonn.

I think it has something to do with Dutch ovens? Or maybe it's just double Dutch ovens? Eamonn

I have not been following this thread and have not read all the postings. I do have the Membership numbers for April: In April 2005 we had:2,290,266 Traditional Members. In April 2006 we had:2,149,887 Traditional Members. A loss of 140,379 In April 2005 we had 1,619,842 in LFL /Exploring. In April 2006 we had 1,593,705 in LFL/ Exploring. A loss of 26,137 I think if my math is right we have a loss of 166,516. Eamonn.

I'm with anarchist and gwd-scouter. While I can see that younger children might have to tag along to some Cub Scout events, I don't see the need for them to be at Boy Scout events. In many ways I feel for the 12 year old girl. What was she supposed to do while the boys that I'm guessing she sees all the time at school are busy and hopefully having fun? This being a District event, I would have thought that some other Scouter could have stepped up to the plate so that Dad or Mom could remain home and take care of the family. While I have never heard of it happening I feel sure if a family wanted to bring a non Scout to Summer camp in our Council, it just wouldn't happen. Families are welcome to come up and visit, but not remain for extended lengths of time. I admit I was tempted to allow some of the 13 year old brothers and sisters attend Sea Scout events, but we discussed it and decided it was better for everyone if they waited until they could really be part of the program. I'm not up on all the insurance issues but allowing a non member to join in some activities might be a problem if there was an accident. Having them stand around with next to nothing to do just isn't fair to them. Eamonn.

OGE Back home we use that all the time!! And yes there is 60 minutes in an English hour! Eamonn

I'm not a great fan of the Venturing program. I do see the need for a program for some older youth. What I know about the Girl Scouts, could be written on a postage stamp. I'm supposing that like Boy Scouts there are some Girl Scout units that offer great programs and others that don't. While I'm happy and enjoy being part of a coed unit and happy that there are coed units, I feel if a Lassie or Lad is getting what they need from a good Girl Scout or Boy Scout unit there is no need for them to join a Venturing unit. Looking at the Boy Scout Troops in my area / District/ Council, it does seem that we are not meeting the needs of older Boy Scouts. While I admit I haven't done any real tracking. On the surface it seems we don't do a very good job of recruiting non-Scouts, we rely on the little fellows who cross-over from the packs. These little Lads are around for two or three years and we lose at least half of them. Of course some units do a much better job and do retain each and every Scout until he is 18. If they are not going to stay in the Troop I'm happy that there is a place for them to go. I just wish Venturing was it. Maybe I'm just not that bright? But just about everything that Venturing does seems like hard work! Start with the name. I was a Venture Scout back home in England, we didn't have Venturers and we didn't have Venture Patrols. We worked on advancements that offered choices to the individual not choices to the unit. We had a uniform. The idea of having a Crew adopt their own uniform is great I'm all for it, but why muddy the waters with having the other one? The goal for some of us was the Queens Scout Award, many of us also worked on the Duke Of Edinburgh Awards: Bronze, Silver and Gold and yes surprise,surprise the Gold Award was the highest!! It seems that every other week Venturing has some new Award. I can't keep up I have enough on my hands and if I can't keep up I'm not going to do a very good job of selling the awards to the youth members. Most of the Crews in our Council are connected to Boy Scout Troops, they don't do hardly anything and the kids get bored and either quit or just turn up as and when they feel they want. This makes planning anything impossible and a lot of these units only last a year.Most just don't have the numbers to carry out a full program. When I was trying to start new units my big problem was "What am I selling?" The local Sportsman Clubs don't need the BSA,they have what they want to do on hand. Our age groups don't seem to work for the church groups in our area. Our Council puts a lot of time and effort into providing facilities for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, this isn't the case for Venturing Crews. When asked why? They fall back on the program isn't about things that they can provide. When are we going to be really honest and admit that Venturing just isn't working? Sure there are a few Crews out there that are making it work, but they are the exception. Adding more and more awards isn't the answer. Last year the NE-Region lost over 15% of the Venturers that they had the year before, if this isn't a wake up call the sleeping pills must be really working. Eamonn.

I think we maybe need to think about balancing the need for adult relationships to fit the needs of the group. While I suppose some might argue that a Adult Patrol might be seen as a example of how things should be. I have never seen the need. We did use the Patrol Method,the Patrols cooked their meals and the adults cooked their meals, but depending on what we were doing or had been doing?? Even this wasn't hard and fast. More often then not the adults would prepare the late night snack and if the Scouts had been out all day maybe even the dinner. Of course if the theme of the weekend was Patrol cooking, this wasn't going to happen!! While I'm all for adult interaction with Scouts, I also think that it is important that we know that we are not always needed. I have a bit of a problem with adults who have big ears!! They hear things that they are not supposed to hear, which isn't as bad as when they act on what they have heard. Scouts can and do have a way of sorting things out for themselves if we allow them. We do need to be on hand when they don't. I really like the idea of being more along the lines of being a big brother to the Scouts. When I was a young SM I was happy to join in with most of the activities, sadly I'm not as young as I used to be and some of the parts don't work as well. I still am there but no longer playing Scout. For example this weekend we were practicing some of the events for the upcoming regatta. One event is the Boatswains Chair lift. I worked with the Crew Leaders to make sure they knew how to tie a double bowline. They taught it to their Crews. I explained how the race was run, they practiced. But I was on hand to check the knot, man the stop watch and make sure that they didn't come down too fast (Coming down is easy!!) In the good old days I might have demonstrated the entire race, but now I'm happy to do what I can. Later in the day I noticed a few Scouts working on their own timing how long it took to tie the knot. That night after dinner we loaded all the Scouts in the van and went out for ice cream with them, I sat with the Scouts and we just chatted. We talked about everything from next years summer trip to the joys of rap-music. A lot of the method is just being there for each Scout as and when he or she needs. Eamonn.

This new role I have is taking a little getting used to. The Quarterdeck wanted to fine people who called a chart a map and a line a rope. I knew that I'd be the big offender and couldn't afford it!! So I put it to them that maybe this wasn't being very kind!! (Hey -They wanted 25 cents a pop!!) We have been working on Time,speed and distance. It's part of what they need for rank advancement. All in all it's not that difficult!! I have to admit to being a little scared when we started as I had no idea. Charting went well. In fact most of the navigation material we covered went well and a few of the Scouts are far better than I am (I don't think they know that yet!) When it came time to do the Time, Speed and Distance, I really didn't think we would have much of a problem. But we ran into problems with the 24 hour system of telling time. Some of the answers that our Boatswain got back just didn't make any sense. While I find it hard to believe we have two Sea Scouts who can't tell time!! They can read a digital clock, but can't read a normal clock and they didn't have any idea that there are sixty minutes in an hour!! I was really shocked. I'm talking about kids who are 15 and 16 years old. Eamonn. (So much for my school taxes!)

Talking just for myself. I have to admit to being a little upset when we try and make Venturing(and I'm including Sea Scouts) into Boy Scouting for older kids. We (The Ship and yours truly) seem to be getting the reputation of not supporting the District because we don't participate in District Boy Scout events:Camporees, First Aid competitions and the like. What don't these people understand? We are not Boy Scouts. I'll openly admit that being as we are so new I have gone out of my way to try and ensure that we don't get involved with Boy Scout events. We have a very full program, our Sea Scouts are busy, many of the boys are still in Troops and if they want to participate in a Boy Scout event they of course are free to do so. Eamonn.

Believe me when I say I have no idea how long my son OJ has been a Life Scout. He has completed all the requirements for Eagle Scout rank, apart from the Leadership Service Project. Her Who Must Be Obeyed has pushed him and tried to get him moving. I have when asked given my opinion. Basically telling him that it's his Eagle, his goal and it is up to him what he does -But I'd very much like to see him complete it. The project with our local YMCA was planned and approved last summer, but what with working on Camp Staff, the Jamboree and Philmont and then soccer he just didn't have time. Now he has added Sea Scouts and a part time job to his already hectic schedule. I was almost sure that it was never going to happen. I'm not sure what got him to make the move, but here about a month ago he decided it was time. He had a few meetings with the YMCA, him and a couple of friends from the OA went to the YMCA last week and marked everything out. (He is installing a volley ball court, two horse shoe pits and a tether-ball game.) I was a little put out that he choose to do this the same weekend as the Ship was going away, our date had been on the calender since January. But I was pleased that he was doing it!! Saturday was the day!! Him and 21 of his nearest and dearest friends went to work. The project is done. I have sat on a lot of Eagle Scout BOR,but I never heard of so many kids turning out to work on a project. He had friends from soccer, school the OA and a few Sea Scouts who didn't go with the Ship. I'm a happy Dad. We talked last night. I asked why he had put it off for so long? He said apart from the time factor, he really didn't like the way the adults in the Troop he is in were pushing him and this just upset him(He used different words!) He does have the BOR,which unless the guys who sit on the board are really stupid he should fly through. He is working on when and where to hold the COH,he has a list with over 200 people to be invited. Her Who Must Be Obeyed will be happy she has had Eagle Scout napkins and other disposables stored for a long time and wants the space. I'll write the checks and for once will only moan and groan a little bit!! Eamonn

Am I understanding correctly, do your Troop's/Ship's allot gas money for the people driving? I'm not sure I understand the question. When we plan an event we make a budget. For this weekend we are staying in the grounds of a church so there isn't any fees for camping. In June we are camping at Yough Lake Park, the camp fee is $30.00 per night. We plan to have 20 people so the camp fee is $1.50 per person. The person buying the food has a budget of $15.00 per person. This weekend we have 15 people going in two vans. The gas is going to cost about $9.00 per person add in tolls and the final cost for the weekend is $30.00, which is a little more than the total but allows a little room for error. If we have to rent vehicles we put that in the budget. Our local rate for a 15 seater van is $44.95 a day ($3.00 per person if it's full) They give us 150 miles a day and then charge $0.25 a mile. They claim that the van gets 22 -25 miles per gal. I think it gets about 18 miles per gal. With gas costing $3.00, it costs 17 cents per mile, depending on the number of people in the van is the final cost. Eamonn. SR540Beaver We are in much the same situation, plans for summer were made back in December, the payment plan was put out. I think to change things now would lead to some sort of mutiny -I'd end up walking the plank !!(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

So far it seems the only person in the Ship that is worried about the costs is me!! The Scouts seem OK with paying whatever the costs are and so far the parents are not complaining. We are very fortunate in that where we live offers a lot of opportunities for Scouting type activities, but sadly not a lot for the Sea Scouting activities which they want to do. They know the costs involved with running a weekend away, they make the plans. I did the Summer Camp plan as at the time we were not at a stage where the Scouts were ready to take on the task. If the price of gas continues to soar?? I'm sure we will have to take a closer look at where we are going and why we are going there. Still at the end of the day if what they want to do isn't on the doorstep we are going to have to do as FScouter says. At this time we only have sailboats, I'm sure the Ships with large powerboats are feeling the pain of higher gas prices. While I hate the idea of having to pay more and pass on the higher costs, I still whole heartedly believe that Scouts and their parents are willing to pay for a quality program. To not offer one because we are fearful of the cost is in fact short changing the Scouts. Eamonn.

I know that I tend to be a bit of a stick in the mud when it comes to training. I do try and ask that others stick to the syllabus. I have witnessed what can happen when people try to do their own thing. At times they can be very good, but as a rule it takes away from something that has to be left out because they added something. The old Boy Scout course was a very good course and I still use some of the material with the Petty Officers in the Ship. Sadly over time, so many Scoutmasters and Staffs came up with add ons that no two courses were ever the same. At times the stuff that was added over-shadowed the course. There were of course some SM's who did follow the syllabi's. but some got out of hand. I think NeilLup, was one of the presenters when I attended the CD Conference (The one where the King of Sweden looked in for lunch -Whatever year that was 2002?) We all pledged to follow the guide. My big thing was that I knew I was going to evaluate the course and the material, I knew if I had gone ahead and done my own thing, I wouldn't be evaluating the BSA course, I'd be looking at Eamonn's course. This wasn't going to do anything to help improve the course. Because of the nature of the beast, changes take time. I have not followed all the changes, mainly because I know that I'm no longer involved. Still I have to admit that I find it a little sad when I hear that the old add ons are starting to find their way back. Of course the participants don't know what is in the syllabus. Eamonn.

The idea gets a "No" from me. We have the knots. How long would you hav to serve to earn the patch? Why just SM's I'm a retired CM,UC,Assistant District Commissioner, District Commissioner, Districtrict Chairman, Den Leader. I'm not a big man, the shirt isn't big enough for all them patches. Eamonn.

We cover a lot of miles with the Ship. This weekend we are driving 224 miles each way to meet up with another ship. The price of gas is starting to hurt. When we planned our Summer Trip (1,500 round trip) I budgeted $3.00 a gal for gas. Right now it's that already. I will have to ask the parents to dig a little deeper. How is the price of petrol impacting your programs? Eamonn.

I think if you start posting on the Sea Scout site you will find that there is a lot of help out there. Some of our Scouts are looking into Venturering awards for the late fall and early winter. Eamonn.

Please don't get me wrong. But I think you must be NUTS!! There is no way you can start a new unit and get involved in overhauling a broken down committee. OJ has a T-shirt that reads: "What Part Of NO Don't you understand"

The third and forth bead are normally presented at a ceremony just before the start of a course. Vicki The selection or election of a permanent PL for a Wood Badge Patrol was part of the old Boy Scout Course, it however isn't in the syllabus of the 21st Century Wood Badge The Staff on the old course did have to do two evaluations of the participants, one being if the person had the makings of a future Staffer. To be very honest I never liked doing it. Eamonn.

CNYScouter If you are free over Memorial Day weekend? You might want to attend The COMMODORE HENRY I. NYGARD SEA SCOUTING REGATTA. I found that I'm getting a lot more support from other Sea Scouter's than I'm getting from our Council. It would be great if you could bring a couple of teenagers who think that they might be interested in joining the Ship. As I said to you in a PM there are Ships and there are Ship's!! Some are what might be called more like Venturering Crews (OK I might call them that!!) They don't et into the Sea Scout uniforms and maybe only focus n a specific area. When we recruited a few Sea Scouts we met and decided what sort of Ship we wanted to be. I'll admit that I cheated!! I had copies of the Sea Scout Manual on hand, at our organizational meeting I had a experienced Sea Scouter (He drove up from Maryland and took OJ And I out to lunch!!) So in my own way I set the tone. They decided that they want to be more of a general purpose Ship, we are going to try our hand at what ever they decide they want to do. The Sea Scout Winter Training Weekend in Maryland was a big help, they got to meet and talk with other Sea Scouts and kids their age. They came away with goals that they had set for the Ship and themselves. Some things were great ideas but just either didn't work or took a lot longer to work than maybe I'd thought. The Halloween Dance we hoped to use to recruit more Scouts turned out to be a Valentines Dance!! But they did all the work. Not the most Sea Scouty event but it started them thinking this is up to us. We lost $40.00 on the event -Money we earned freezing our tails off selling popcorn outside of Wal-Mart. They thought I was going to be upset. I wasn't, of course I'd liked to not have lost the money, but they learned a lot and it was their money!! You are going to have to plan, organize and carry through the first few months, but you need to give the choices and make sure that they do as much as you feel they can take on. Summer is going to be tough. Boy Scouts will be at camp or in my case working at camp, we have NOAC,family vacations. Things can fall apart. If you only have a few Sea Scouts, your percentage of Scouts might be high, but still end up with very few. You need to find out what they want to do. If you go full speed ahead and the events fall flat you will lose the Scouts you have. We are working on summer 2007, sadly the Ship's Committee have said that they don't want to go over $500.00 per Scout which is not a big help. I was thinking of Sea Base, or Ireland!! Someone is looking at Canada. One big problem we have is money. The parents of our Sea Scouts feel that they have been fund raised to death. The Scouts are not good at selling stuff. This means that we have to do things like car washes and dinners, this eats into the time that the Scouts have. I'm pleased that you went with the club, I think you will be able to get the Scouts on the water a lot easier than us. I think I would come up with a list of ideas of things that the Ship could do. We started with one meeting and one activity a month, it wasn't until they decided that they wanted to work on advancements that we went to meeting weekly. You might want to come up with a tentative program from now until August or September. When you get enough Scouts to hold an election and have the Quarterdeck in place start training them. Then in September take them away for a planning weekend.Then plan for what you think is going to work? A year would be nice, but maybe six months is all the Scouts are ready for. These are just my thoughts. Eamonn.

As ever the little grey cells have been working. I don't know if any one caught the show on PBS about teenage drivers. I missed the start of it, but they put video cameras in the cars of ten teenagers for six months. It showed how the teens and some of their parents had the same bad habits. I think we need to be aware even if we have little kids in the car that they are watching and will copy us. It showed how the girls were more careful and less lightly to fall victim of peer pressure when other teens are in the car. Near the end of the show they had some expert who made the point that 16 year olds are not adults. He got into this brain developmental thing. I sat at home and thought "Hey I don't have a PhD and I could have worked that out for myself!!" But thinking about my expectations from a bunch of 16 , 17 year olds is that I have been expecting them to be little adults. They aren't -They are still teenagers!! Going back to good old "Train Them, Trust Them, let the Lead" Maybe I'm guilty of presenting the training and not really supporting them? Maybe not understanding them? Sure the easy road would be for me to start sending e-mails, talk to the parents and have them get on their child. But that's not what we are trying to pass on to our Scouts.Maybe? The end result might be more like I would like, but... I just spent the last few years as District Chair and one of my big things was making people accountable. We need a model for that. 1/ We Explain what is needed. 2/ They buy in and volunteer. 3/ We check to see what's happening? 4/ We receive reports and make any necessary changes. 5/ The task is completed. 6/ Everyone enjoys the party! (Isn't there something like this in either the old TTT or the new one?) Working with adults isn't always easy and many of them don't seem as busy as the Scouts. Eamonn.

"Hi I'm Eamonn, I'm a Scouter" But I'm also a lot of other things and there things apart from Scouting that I like to do and want to do. I'm a little unsure if I like the word Magic? I know that at one time I allowed Scouts and Scouting to almost become too important. I was so busy Scouting that my wife, my family and friends all seemed to get pushed aside. We have a couple of people in our District that seem to be heading down that path. A sad side effect of this is that a lot of people who are doing too much seem to judge others by their commitment to Scouting. Adults look at other adults and can't understand why if they are at Scout functions six nights a week, everyone else isn't? They at times fail to understand that some Scouts are also a lot of other things and even though they are active, living their life by the Oath and Law, they are also active in other organizations and activities. I have really enjoyed nearly all the time that I have spent as a Scout, I've learned a lot and had many satisfying experiences. I do have some concerns about what happens to old Scouters? Sure we hear about the old 100 year old Scouter, but they are the exception not the rule. I'm sitting here trying to remember the names of past Day Camp Directors, I can't go back more than about ten years!! A lot of these people who at one time were the "Movers and Groover's" active in the District, important hard workers are gone. Either they are just to old or they quit. I'm ashamed that I have been so busy Scouting, I lost contact with them and because they are no longer Scouting, I don't have very much use of them. Boy -You don't know how much it pains me to write that!! I hope that I know when the time to be gone comes around. I sure don't want to be the old fellow who bores the heck out of everyone telling them how it was in the good old days. I do think that Scouts, Scouter's and Scouting is all very special. - But I'm not sure about magic? Eamonn.