Eamonn

I think we are a little more than 4 hours, but if you get on the PA Turnpike and get off at either Somerset or Donegal you are in my (Yes my.) Laurel Highlands. Laurel Caverns,offers Rappelling, climbing and caving. The hiking and biking is good. The white water rafting is really great but a little expensive. The canoeing on the Yough is good. In winter we have 7 Springs and Hidden Valley. We have Camp Conestoga which is in Somerset and Camp Tensesherison which is about 12 miles from Ohiopyle. Greater Pitt has Heritage which has a super nice lake and camp Twin Echos. Twin Echos is great for winter they have some nice cabins and super hills, the Scouts have a great time just playing in the snow (Snow boards or just about anything that will let them slide down the hills) Last time I went with OJ's Troop they took the Scouts to the Johnstown Museum which is all about the great floods, when I looked at the scouts after the film presentation most of them were sleeping. If you decide you want more info drop me a pm. Eamonn. Hops I'll be seeing Jerry this weekend. He is busy trying to help organize a Powder Horn course.

My great dislike for "Rules" is well documented in these forums. However a lot has to depend on where the rules come from. I also am real big on allowing the Scouts to make choices. If we don't allow them the opportunity to make choices when they are growing up they aren't going to know how to when they do. We do need to provide our Scouts with the correct information and let them know why we might not want to do some things. We do of course need to keep safety in mind. I try and keep an open mind about things. I don't like pop or soda very much and I haven't drunk a cola beverage in over 20 years. I don't like the taste. But I have friends that drink it all day long. I don't see that as a Scouter I have any right to tell their kid that he can't drink what he does at home. I have one Lad in the Ship that only eats meat, potatoes and cake. I know that this isn't the best diet in the world (At least I ought to know!) But while we have talked about this, I think my imposing my will on him is wrong. There are times when I do make up rules!! At the Jamboree when it was so darn hot, I made up a rule that Scouts were not allowed to leave our Troop camp site without having both of their water bottles (Or camel-packs) filled. The PLC at the Jambo came up with the rule that all the Patrol members had to be at the table at meal times unless they went fishing early.(They came up with this one because some Lads weren't hungry and thought if they didn't eat they didn't need to do what the roster had them doing.) The Jambo guide stated that we were to be in uniform for dinner. We decided that unless we had guests this was just silly. I was constantly reminding everyone about the need for sun screen. But I knew that there was no way I could do much more than remind them. I really dislike hats and caps, but to set a good example at the Jambo I wore my hat. We just had a super sized thread about cell phones. I had recommend that our Scouts not take their phones, some did, but my cell phone was in the Patrol Box under the dining fly where we held our daily PLC, everyone knew it was there and were free to use it. Some Parents love rules!! They can hide behind them, it's so much easier for them to say "You can't" than it is to ask "What do you think?" Eamonn.

"Unwritten rule of speedo wearing - No speedo wearing if over 25 (or European)." I resemble that remark!! Was someone looking for a Diversity Ticket item? Eamonn PS Judging from our last swim session I think a lot of our male Sea Scouts are going to be plumbers.

We are a small Council. Our big weekends see about 300 and the small weekends about 150. We use the Council Summer Camp and ask that people use one main area. The Scouts come up by themselves, bringing their own tents (Apart from the June weekend when they use the tents that will be used for summer camp, after they have put them up -Cheap Labour!!) Meals are served in the main dining hall, prepared by OA members. The cost is $12.00 if they phone the office and let them know that they are coming or $24.00 if they just show up. New ordeal members pay about $40.00, that covers the weekend, handbook, sash, and dues for a year. Eamonn.

We were at our local pool a week or so back with the Sea Scouts. A couple of the female Scouts did have on bikini type swim wear. I did make a note to myself that I need to find a nice way of talking to them about this. The boys all had very baggy swim suits. I have it on very good authority that I have very sexy knees. To date no one has ever made mention of any bunchiness . Could it be that I'm bunchiness challenged? But at the ripe old age of 50, I'm more worried about paunchiness!! Eamonn.

I'm not sure what you mean by a Troop Handbook? We have a really good Scout Handbook, which I think covers just about everything a Scout needs to know. I can't help but think your trying to reinvent the wheel -But maybe that's just me? I strongly urge you to slow down take the course, use the things that you get from the course to write your ticket. Going with fixed ideas and ready made ticket items will take away from the reason you are there. Eamonn.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I have always seen the people who volunteer to help as my pals. We are all doing what we do for the Scouts. When it comes to selecting people to serve and it is a selection. A few of us will meet normally this meeting is not planned, if it is we hold it in a very relaxed adult setting. One of us (Leader, committee member or someone from the CO) will mention that someone looks like they might be useful on the committee. 99.9% of the time we will all say it's a good idea and someone will volunteer to ask the person. We normally have a reason for asking or have something that we think that person might be good at. While the meeting does have an agenda and notes are taken (Minutes??) The meeting does have a set time to start and end. But it seems everyone hangs around for a good 45 minutes after!! We don't tell anyone that they can't attend, but we don't go out of our way to invite non-committee members. At this time we have 31 Sea Scouts that come from 28 families. The COR has two boys in the Ship and OJ is in there. We don't need a committee of 26 people. We do invite parents to get involved. We have a list of drivers, a list of wood workers and a list of people who have offered to help with fund raising depending on the event. Right now we have a committee of nine (Ten if you include the COR) One is a ER Doctor who doesn't make very many meetings. He is gung-ho about Scouts and Scouting an Ex-Council VP but his main thing is that he will sponsor the golf outing where we hope to raise about $7,000. We have a Committee Chair, a Treasurer, a Note Taker. Other people have areas which they look after, one Mom has taken on Uniforms,one is looking after fund raising events. They all have things that they have been asked to do. Of course sometimes it would be a lot more simple to just go ahead and take care of things myself!! Sometimes I really wish I could and find it hard not to. When this happens I remind myself that it's as much their Ship as it is mine and if I'm doing everything and for some reason had to stop, it would be really hard to keep the Ship going. While we don't live in each others pockets, I know that I can look in on them at home and within minutes of me arriving either the coffee is on or there is a glass in my hand. Eamonn.

SR540Beaver I don't know if I really know the answer to this. The OA does a really good job of allowing the youth members to be in charge. While as you know I'm not big on Troop rules, the OA is set up so that adults don't have the opportunity to do any tweaking!! From the get go it is and I think a lot of the Scouts see it as an honor to be elected in. Nearly all the Scouts who attend the OA weekends in our Lodge Wagion 6, do so as individuals, in fact I don't know of any Troops who go up to camp as Troops. Even if the adults from their home unit is there, he or she isn't there as the SM or ASM. There are of course Adults around, but the Officers of the Lodge (Youth members) are running the show. I think that because the Scouts are a little older before they can be elected and there are no "Little Kids" and there really is no advancement, the Scouts tend to look at it as not being the same as Troop camping or Troop Scouting (I'm now ducking!!) Unlike Camporees which can be very competitive, the idea of fellowship and being a brotherhood does ring through. As of now we have 75% of the Lodge Officers in the Ship, they came from four different Troops, they are all really good friends but Troops don't do a very good job of allowing Scouts from other Troops to join in with what they are doing -In fact it would be really hard to do if you are using the Patrol Method. As Kahuna mentioned a lot of older Scouts like to leave the nest. We had a group of Sea Scouts at a Winter Training weekend in Maryland, in January, they were talking about the other day about the Regatta in May and hoping that the Sea Scouts from Virginia would be at the Regatta. The Sea Scouts that are in the OA really do take their responsibilities very seriously. OJ, has ran for Lodge Chief twice and not got it, he is serving his third term as Vice Chief Admin. He does a far better job than I did of following up and checking to see if the chairmen are doing what they are supposed to be doing or have done. The Lad that beat him in the election, is one of his best friends they met at OA weekends. OJ is also the Section Sec. and gets to work with the Lad that beat him before!! Still they seem happy to do what they are doing. This years conclave is being hosted by a very small lodge, so a group of them are going up for a week before the start to get things ready. We were very lucky in that the Lodge Advisor who just completed his term of office really had a great grasp of the OA and the Scouts. One thing that seems to be a big attraction to both the Sea Scouts and the active OA members is that a lot of what they do is done out of Council. Here in the NE-Region a lot of the OA training's are done at Camp Alpine NJ. Next weekend is an OA weekend. OJ is ready. I'm not sure what activities the Activity Committee has dreamed up. The All Night Cosmic Bowling in the maintenance building was a big hit!! While the OA seems to be the right fit for a good number of Scouts, it is worth remembering that we Tap out about 200 Scouts a year who come up and participate in the Ordeal and sadly become patch wearers. Some of the Sea Scouts who are also OA members are really into patch trading. Tom our Ship's pursuer is the Lodge Chief. As Chief he is a youth rep on the Council Executive Board. We were both at a meeting, where we were reminded that Board Members were expected to donate $1,500 a year. Tom looked at me and asked "Do they want $1,500 from me?" I said that they didn't "Wow -Thats good -That's about 350 Lodge Flaps" He said!! Eamonn.

Hi eweiss45 Welcome to the forums. It is a shame it couldn't be under happier circumstance's. The passing of a loved one is never easy, but I can't even imagine the pain of losing a son or a daughter. As to finding specific protocol to follow,there isn't one. You haven't provided a lot of information. Such as who is paying for whatever it is you end up presenting? When and where the presentation will take place. The most important thing is that whatever you and whoever else is involved do has to come from your heart/hearts. This is far more important than any procedure. When I got married, a number of Scouts bought me a wedding present, while I really was impressed and still use some of what they bought, I was more impressed that without any adult involvement they all came to the church in full uniform and formed a guard of honor. Of all the wedding photos that one is my favorite and lives on the dressing table in our bedroom. You don't say if the SM's daughter was involved with the Troop or how well the Troop knew her. If someone knows of a writer that the family or the girl really likes you might want to read something from them. Simple prayers or Bible verses might be something that could be be read. Again it's all about the heart not the words. I always liked Requiem, by Robert Louis Stevenson Under the wide and starry sky Dig the grave and let me lie. Glad did I live and gladly die, And I laid me down with a will. This be the verse you grave for me; Here he lies where he longed to be, Home is the sailor, home from sea, And the hunter home from the hill. But that's just me. Eamonn.

Adults not playing nice is a big problem. I'm sure that there is no easy fix. It seems that some parents are happy to not have any involvement and others become real pains in the neck or maybe a little lower! Improved communication will help. Thinking about adding an extra meeting might help. (I know we need extra meetings like we need a head cold) If the Scoutmaster, Committee Chair and the Chartered Organization Rep, can get together before the Committee meeting and plan the agenda, going over what they want, looking at what the pitfalls might be and coming to some sort of agreement before the meeting they can then come off as being a team, who knows what they want and where they are going. This is how the District key 3 works. While I was District Chair the key 3 met weekly over a few adult beverages, we looked at how things were going, new things that were on the horizon and looked for ways of getting the committee to buy into what we were doing. One sure way of improving the committee is by giving people real jobs and things to do and making them accountable for doing them. (This is up to the Chair.) There needs to be follow up calls and reports before the meeting. It's strange that the most vocal people will either step up to the plate or they will just fade away. Committee meetings should be all about reports, not moans and groans. It does need to be explained to all the Committee members, that they didn't appoint the leaders, the Chartering Organization did and only the Chartering Organization can remove him or her. Of course none of us are going to get our own way all of the time and every now and then something just comes out of no where. At our last committee meeting, I gave a report about this years summer camp and said that we would be discussing next years at our next Quarterdeck meeting (Sea Scout PLC.) Out of no where the cost of next years summer camp came up. I was caught off guard. It wasn't a agenda item. I did have a couple of ideas that I was going to throw out at the Quarterdeck meeting, but nothing that I'd really given any thought or done any homework on -My thinking being that this is up to the Scouts. In fact I'd thought about having the Boatswain do some brain-storming and maybe having the Scouts follow up by doing the homework. Before I knew what had happened the committee had said that next years summer camp / whatever couldn't cost more than $500.00 a person. While I'm sure we can work within the limit they have set, it does rule out some of the ideas that I had and maybe it's going to prevent the Scouts doing something that they wanted to do? Heck if the price of gas keeps going up we could end up in my back yard!! I know some of the parents/ committee members are a little worried, about letting the youth members decide what they want to do. I'm maybe a little upset that they don't have enough faith in me. But at the end of the day that's just the way it is. The committee is just as much a part of the ship and just as important as the adult leaders. Eamonn.

The course was developed by a team of Scouter's. I met with some of them when I attended the NE-Region Course Directors course a few years back at Camp Alpine. The King of Sweden joined us for lunch. The copyright fee covers the cost of the movies and music. Some of the material did come from Ken Blanchard and was used under license, it is my understanding that the license agreement ran out last year. National and the Region does have a minimum number of participants that you need to have in order to present the course, the Region can if they like allow a course to go on if there is a good reason why the minimum has not been met. Our cluster has had to cancel courses due to lack of participants. This is a real shame, the dead line is 30 days before the start of the course. By which time the staff have already spent a lot of time and effort preparing the course. Each and every member of staff is charged with recruiting as many people as they can. Eamonn CD- NE-IV-153

If in any way this comes off sounding like I'm a racist, please believe me I'm not. I live about 50 miles outside of Pittsburgh. Nearly all of our "Local TV News" is from Pittsburgh. Over the past few weeks there has been a lot of shootings. Young people are doing the shooting and getting shot and killed. It really is very sad. It seems that everyone has a different plan of what needs to be done. The Mayor wants harsher penalty's. Some people want more police and community policing. One local station tried to show that there is a link between the lack of funding for youth programs and the ongoing violence. I don't know if at one time there was money available and it has been cut? Or what the deal is? Most of the violence is happening in areas which are predominantly African-American or Black. The TV station interviewed a few community leaders and youth leaders. They all seemed to agree that without more money put into youth programs that the violence will continue. Lord knows that I hate the idea of any young person getting hurt or falling into a life of crime. But I have to admit that to some extent I watched the report and couldn't help thinking; why the heck aren't you doing more to help yourselves? Why aren't there more Scout units in these areas? Why if your kids are getting hurt aren't you doing more for your kids? Sitting around waiting for some kind of a hand out, clearly isn't working. I don't in any way begrudge any funding any youth group receives and I'm sure any money given would be a help. Still the time for action is now, crying in your coffee mug, moaning and groaning isn't making things better. I'm sure that Greater Pittsburgh Council is trying to start new units in these areas. My hope is that they are telling people how it is and trying to start real units with real community backing and involvement. Eamonn.

I don't think that length of service always is the mark of a great Scouter. I know guys who have been in Scouting for years and years and never really got it. Heck, they gave me a 40 year pin the other week and there are still things that I don't get. I have been involved with BSA training's for a fair amount of time. For the most part I think the training's offered are very good. I have organized most BSA adult trainings. When we put together a staff for a course, I tend to be a little dogmatic about the presenters sticking to the syllabus. Some of the presenters have a bit of a rough time with this. Some come from units that have tweaked the way things are done. This might work fine in the unit they come from, but I feel that when a BSA training is being presented it should follow what the BSA has stated. Of course the Training works on the idea that everyone is from a ideal unit. A unit where the CO and the COR are overjoyed to provide opportunities for the youth they serve. The Scoutmaster is the same guy as seen in the video presentations. The birds are singing and the sky is blue. Of course we all know that while this is possible and can work, a lot of the time it just isn't the case. I have seen a lot of people who have participated in trainings return to their units on the "Training High". They see what isn't being done the way it was presented at the training and want to change it. They seem to forget that the unit has been doing things the way they do for a very long time and in a lot of cases everyone is happy with that way. While this doesn't make things right. It isn't going to change overnight or very quickly. Sadly, I've seen really nice people who have the makings of being outstanding Scouter's get so frustrated that they just give up and quit. I've also seen the people who return from training and then try and change everything, the end result being that everyone else quits!! Of course there are the people who return to the unit and just carry on doing the same old, same old. Dealing with the Training High can be very hard. It is easier to manage if all the adults are friends. Making changes is a lot easier if the idea is presented in a friendly non-confrontational way and the change is "a soft sell". The person or people who want to make the changes have to be willing to work at making the changes work. While the idea is sound and eventually the outcome will pay dividends, getting there is going to take hard work and commitment. Everyone has to look at what battles?? They stand a chance of winning, what changes can be made and they need to think long term. Eamonn.

"You don't want your council accepting donations for the Ship. They will keep the donations and sell them for themselves, which is why you don't want them to. Or they will turn away the donations, because they don't want the hassle." This might well be the case. But if you are not a 501(3)© and have not made arrangements your not going to get the donations. Many flotillas have set up a "Friends of .... Sea Scouts" and will accept the donatins of boats. You might want to contact:Bruce Chr. Johnson commodore@seascout.org Or: SKIPPER VIGILANT SSS441VIGILANT@NYC.RR.COM

My best friend is very much into Scouts and Scouting. We even joke about him being buried in his Scout uniform. He has two kids -Both Girls!! One is a little older and missed Venturing, the other is at college but is a member of a Crew. Scouts might not be what your son wants to do! If you try and force it on him, in time he is going to dislike it all the more and it could be something that gets in the way of your relationship with him. My son OJ, never was as mad about Scouts and Scouting as I was -That was until he got deeply involved in the OA. Once he did he really got the bug. At the end of the day we give our kids "Roots and Wings" Eamonn.

Lots of really good advise. You might want to meet with your sons Dietitian/Nutritionist before the start of camp. If the camp could provide copies of the menus that would be a big help. Eamonn.

eagle-pete I don't think I was very clear. What I was trying to say is that in some ways, I'm a contradiction. Having read some of the postings that gwd-scouter has posted. I think at this time he might spend what time he has available to work with the Troop. I'm in much the same boat with the unit I serve, but here's the contradiction. I'm not practicing what I preach, by attending the advanced course for Sea Scouter's. Did you ever see the episode of West Wing, where President Bartlet walks up to the hill? There is a fantastic line in it which goes something like: What do call a leader with no followers? A Guy taking a walk. Wood Badge is a great course, but if by attending the unit is going to suffer and maybe die. There is no point in attending. It is a course about leadership -If there is no one to lead, it just becomes adults having a good time. Eamonn.

Sad as it may be there are some CO that just don't and never will take an interest in the units that they charter. A lot depends on the person at the top. Before I became a CM, our parish was blessed with a Parish Priest who took a very lively interest in the young people of the parish and the school. He was great with kids and both the parents and the kids liked him. Sadly he got moved. When I became CM,we got a nice enough Priest, but he was better working with older people and was more "Religious"?? than Father George was. The Pack was just something that was there and he had inherited, it was there before he came and is still there now he is gone. While it's great if you do find the Executive Officer who loves Scouts and Scouting, it does help if you can try and remember while the Pack or whatever the unit is? May be a very important thing to you, Scouting units may only be a very small thing to the top guy. Our Parish has a lot of things going on, lots of different groups and each group thinks that they are special. Dealing with large donations can be difficult. If the donation is made to the church and the church passes it on to the Pack, who is to say that the choir who needs new robes aren't going to get upset? I don't know about your SE or Council? But if the SE from our Council got the sniff of $1,000.00 He would want to get it into the Council coffers ASAP. Again if the Council accepted the donation, it would be a Council Donation and the Council isn't in the business of donating to units. Setting up a 501 (3)© for a pack is more than lightly not worth while. All the wise words about trying to improve the relationship's with the CO are worth the effort. Having a couple of friends on the parish council or Church Elders can also be a big help. As for the complaints about the mess, I think just about every unit has at one time had to deal with much the same thing. Eamonn.

There is a lot of material out there about what Sea Scouting is. I will PM you some of that stuff. The big problem is what the Ship wants from the Post. You really do need to look into what the Council will do for the Ship? For example our Council wouldn't allow us to use the Council charity status and the Elk's who are our CO isn't a 501 (3)©. Which is a pain when it comes to accepting donations of boats. You might want to look into the liability insurance that you need on top of what the normal insurance is. There is a really good discussion board linked to the Sea Scout web site. Eamonn.

Lamb is normally what we serve at Easter, but with mint sauce not that yucky sweet jelly. Easter back home in England, seems to hold memories of being very cold and wet. Easter weekend is a long holiday as Good Friday and Easter Monday are both holidays, I like the way we pair up holidays Christmas Day and Boxing day are together. Rory is really enjoying spring, he loves the muddy puddles, which isn't doing the celery green carpet a lot of good. Chasing robins is such hard work and the rabbits don't play fair. OJ got the tractor running and is starting to give the grass it's spring hair cut. Half the Sea Scouts are off to Disney in Florida in the next week or with the HS marching band. I think we have a bigger crop of wild daffodils and dandelions than last year. I swear I seen the start of blossoms on the pear trees. I can't wait for the dogwood to bloom. The yard is a bit of a mess we seem to have whatever you call the green bean looking things from the Toby trees everywhere. OJ, will stop moaning and groaning about having to eat fish on Fridays. At Mass on Easter Sunday, we have the opportunity of renewing the vows that were made for us when we were Baptized. OJ, will be 18 in July, but Her Who Must Be Obeyed still makes him an Easter basket. I steal all the malted eggs!! The school year is almost over and the kids start to count the days till summer. Summer is the best time to be a boy. But Spring is a wonderful time for a man and his dog. Thanks for your Easter blessing - Lord knows I need all the blessing I can get. Easter is about new life, new beginnings,many of the Scoutmasters will have a new group of Scouts to work with before you try and whip these new Lads into shape take some time to watch the young animals out playing. They know have to have fun. Eamonn.

I'm still getting over Bob White not being with us, wondering how Uncle Guinea is doing and now you are going. It's a sad, sad, mad world. I know we have had our moments, but I hope we never crossed the line. I don't have to agree with you to respect you. Still if you must go, as my priest says most Sundays: "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" Eamonn.

Cat flap Bad salad Soap in your hole Mean as custard Plaster man Pleating and humming Trim your snow tail Birthington's washday Trail snacks Bottle in front of me Rental Deceptionist Flock of bats Chewing the doors Eamonn (No name?)

The only "Real" SPL requirements are to get more votes than the other candidates. But sadly many Troops don't seem happy to go with this. Eamonn

Very often cups and mugs are sold to help the budget. When I was the course director, I looked at a lot of stuff and heard a lot of ideas. As part of the course fee ($200.00) Each participant received. The Neckerchief, two T-shirts, course hat , coin and we paid for the beads, woggle and Gilwell necker. If they completed their ticket. I decided not to go in for the other stuff as to my way of thinking the recognition for completing Wood Badge is the Wood Badge regalia. We did sell photos and a disk with pictures taken during the course set to the music used at the end. The course made money. Eamonn.

It's hard enough to get people to attend the Training's that they need. I think training people who are Cub Scouters in things that Cub Scouts are not allowed to do, would be seen by many as a waste of their time. Of course we would like to see Bear Den Leaders take Webelos Scout Outdoor Training and it would be great to see Webelos Scout Den Leaders take Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Training's, but I've met far too many Den Leaders who can't wait till their Den Leader days are done, they take the training's that they need and that's it. Many are Moms with other little people at home, they have full time jobs and seem to end up as the Family Activity Transporter. We have all met the "Training Junkies", who at the whisper of a training no matter about what are there in full uniform, bright eyed and bushy tailed -Strange how many of these types make really bad leaders!! Of course there are Cub Scouters who have the skills, but they need to follow the age-appropriate guidelines, and I kinda think us training them in activities that they are not supposed to be doing with Cub Scouts sends the wrong message. Eamonn.