Eamonn

scoutldr I feel sure that this committee member would not receive the District Award of Merit in the District that I'm in. We tend to award it to people who have performed outstanding service to the District. A good many Scouter's feel that there are too many awards and knots in the Cub Scout section! I think if a knot and a certificate is all that is needed to retain and spur someone on. -Go for it. But if someone wasn't registered the fault has to lie with the unit. They have to take the blame. While we all love to have active volunteers. I think we have to be very careful of having the person who wears to many hats. While they may well be doing a wonderful job, my fear is what happens when they are no longer there? I'd much sooner see people share the load and that way if someone moves on or quits you only have one spot to fill. Once someone is doing all the work, it's hard to knock a few hats off, without hurting feelings. Most of us are happy to allow the work-horse to keep doing all the work and then when he or she isn't there any more we wonder what went wrong. If you are looking for something official which comes with a knot? You might consider a James E. West in the persons name. It will cost $1,000.00. Which might be a little much. Eamonn.

Our Council will not issue tour permits for Cub Scout camps from October 1 through May 1. Cub Scouts may only camp at Council Approved camp grounds. One sure way to have a Lad not join Boy Scouts is to take him away to camp and have him spent a weekend where he is cold. Most (Not all) Cub Scouts do not have the correct sleeping bags and other equipment needed for such an activity. Most parents will hold off buying expensive equipment until they deem that their son is going to be active in a Troop. Our Council will not issue permits to Webelos Scout Den Leaders unless they have attended the Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training. Eamonn.

I know this sounds bad. But after ten years of worrying about membership and tracking membership in the District, it's nice not having to worry about it.My focus is now on the Sea Scout Ship, that I serve. We didn't make Quality District last year, because we lost a number of units. Mostly Crews that were one year wonders and we didn't reach the +1 needed in Boy Scouts. It seems that we as a council focus mainly on recruiting Cub Scouts. We spend a lot of time and money recruiting these little fellows. Last year we had the Lunch Box with the Pine-wood Derby kit. To be very honest I don't think it made a lot of difference in the number recruited. The much hyped partnership with Chevrolet Division of General Motors and NASCAR racing champion Jeff Gordon seemed to stall before it ever got going. As far as I know or can see so far this year there are no new plans or ideas, this might because the finances of the Council have overshadowed membership. Some of the things I used to do when I was District Chairman: Membership starts (ends?) at Rechartering. Not at the end of the year. While recruitment should be on-going and year round the real numbers are the unit rechartering numbers. We had the Commissioner Staff call every person who had been taken off a charter. We asked why they had left and invited them back, either to the unit they had been in or another unit. We shared the real numbers with the District Committee (Real being the recharter numbers.) We used these numbers to set recruitment goals for the units. Packs who had a lot of Lads cross over thought these were unfair. As a rule these goals were the end of the year total plus one. At the end of May we held a Tiger Safari to recruit little fellows. The results of these were far better when we did these by School District rather than by Scout District. Sadly we lost a lot of the new recruits due to lack of activity from packs over the summer. Working with the local Cable TV company we placed BSA ads on the TV. I was talking to a few of the DE's and asked how the rechartering numbers looked? One DE said that three of the four Districts looked "Dismal" but one was way ahead. I happened to meet the DE of the District that was ahead, I congratulated her on the achievement. I was a little shocked when she shook her head and said that all the new members were from HUD units and that she new nothing about them. I mentioned that HUD really couldn't charter units.She said she didn't know about that, but felt that she was being set up, just like another DE had been when a Crew of over 400 had been signed up and then lost. We discussed how this sort of thing never really works and does in time come back to bite us in the tail. Sadly it seems that some people never learn and this sort of "Creativity" which seems to bypass the board will continue. I had hoped that with the elimination of the 2% growth the " creativeness" would disappear, sadly it looks like it has found a new home in Scoutreach. Scoutreach is and can be a really good thing. It's a real shame that it will become the new home for what is just cheating. Eamonn.

Ed You posted: "Following the Scout Oath & Law is the best way to go. But there are no immediate consequences for not following it. The Cuss Cup has immediate consequences & kids understand immediate consequences better." "So if a Scout doesn't live to the Oath or Law, what happens, Eamonn? " "Thanks for not answering the question." "...there are penalties for bad language & behavior. And the purpose is initially to stop the bad language and/or behavior & then prevent future incidents. " Then today you post "Where as in the "Real World" the goal has more to do with punishment. Maybe in your world but not mine and I would guess probably not most people's real world. That's a grim view of reality" Ed Have you been watching too much Monty Python? I think I know one sketch with John Cleese that has to do with arguments that would seem to fit. Eamonn.

Consequences result from everything we do and a Scout would do. Carry your umbrella and when it rains you don't get as wet. Forget it and you don't stay as dry. One big difference between what might be called the real world and the scaled down Boy Scout world is that in the Scout world we are preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law and training young people in citizenship, service, and leadership. Everything we do is about training and preparing young people to make choices. Where as in the "Real World" the goal has more to do with punishment. Our goal is to see young people choosing to do the right thing, because it is the ethical and right thing to do. I see a big difference between this and doing the right thing because they fear getting caught doing the wrong thing and having to face the consequences. While the final result might seem the same, we are instilling ethical thinking, not just punishing. We would all hope that the consequence of or the outcome of a Lad being a Scout that he will grow up to be a good citizen who makes ethical choices and uses the oath and law in his daily life. If more people had these values what a wonderful place the world would be. Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I think I need to shy away from posting in the early hours. This was never intended to be as long as it turned out to be. We do need to remember that consequences can not always be bad.But if we are looking for instant gratification it might not always work out that way. A very long time ago I thought I wanted to be a teacher. I love English history and liked working with kids. I went to college and through teacher training and landed a job in a very large school in the London area. I stuck it out for about a year and found that I hated it. I wasn't sure what had gone wrong? Now with the passing of time I see that I didn't do a very good job of connecting with the students. Because I loved history, I didn't understand why they didn't! For a very long time when asked I would say I quit because the kids didn't want to be there. I don't know if it is possible to really get to know 250+ kids. I now know that I didn't really try. One really nice thing about Scouts and Scouting is that it is all about relationships. We are all given the opportunity to really get to know each other really well. If we take the time we can get to know what dreams each of our Scouts have. Once we have that information we can really guide and support him. (Or her) This becomes a lot easier for us (the adults) if we understand and are doing our best to live by the law and oath. The youth we deal with are very perceptive, they can see through us they know if we really care. Over the years I have known some really great outdoors men, hikers,campers, who have failed to understand that just being good at what they do and loving what they do isn't what Scouting is all about. These people are very useful and can do a lot of good. What might some people might find a little surprising is how right the BSA is on this and how good the material is. I'm sorry that I don't buy into the idea that not working toward installing ethical values is OK,if it eliminates a problem. (I'm referring to the cursing topic.) In my book this is not the way we should do things and it falls flat when we are trying to set examples of true leadership. A little while back I was having a conversation with a really nice fellow who is a Sea Cadet Leader (I can't remember his rank.) We were talking about how alike the program he is in and Sea Scouting can be. I mentioned that one big difference was the way we disciplined our youth members. I went on to mention that in the Cadets if a youth didn't do what he should he would be expected to do push ups, where as in Sea Scouting we would try and find a way of getting the Scout to see what he had done and come up with his /her solution of doing right. He maintained that if a Cadet had done the push ups, he wasn't lightly to repeat the offenses. I agreed with him but said that our way made the Scout think. funscout, gives a couple of examples of situations that maybe don't seem earth shattering, but in the "Boy's World" might be a big deal to the boy. If as in the case with the Day Camp Director, the Lad sees the punishment as not being fair. He will resent it and will lose respect for the person who imposed it. While we would hope that all Scouts would respect adult leaders. The Day Camp Director will find that it's a lot more difficult to be a leader after this. Funscout went on to post: "Now, if my son had been littering, then I would have naturally expected him to pick up any litter in the vicinity. " I can't help thinking that it would be better if (and maybe this is what did happen.) someone took the time to ask what Scout Law /Laws littering went against? And the Lad volunteered to pick up the litter. A lot of times the natural consequences can be the best lesson. Using the Patrol Method can be a big help in allowing Scouts to see that their actions can have consequences that effect others and how others feel about them. Sometimes knowing you have let the side down can be a very powerful lesson. Eamonn.

Hi Lisa, We have a lot of adults who come and go at our Summer Camp. Some because of work and home commitments, some because I think they don't like sleeping in tents! But maybe I'm being unkind. As to the "typical adult: boy ratio at summer camp? I don't think there is such a thing. The age and the maturity of the Scouts is one factor. How far away the camp is from home, might be another. I have seen very large Troops arrive with two or three leaders and very small arrive with half a dozen or more. The Troop my son is in has taken 32 Scouts to camp and had as many as 20 adults come and go over the week. Sadly it seems to me that all these adults don't add anything to the camp. In fact I think they take away from it. Many are there just to keep an eye on their son. Some only ever leave the Troop camp site to eat, go to the bathroom and visit the trading post. Summer camp has always been a very special time for me. A time when I really get to know the Scouts. I know I'm sticking my neck out here, but having an over abundance of adults gets in the way of this. While having people who can make the daily trip to Wal-Mart, might be seen as useful? I'm very much an old stick in the mud. Once I get to camp, I'm there for the duration. If anything has been forgotten, the lesson is that we need to be more careful, plan better and find a way of improvising. Not send Mr. Smith to the store. I don't know how you can prevent too many parents from attending? Many will say find them something to do. But the Scouts at Summer Camp have a very full program, so this isn't as easy as it sounds. I like the Jamboree Troop model, with one SM and 3 ASM's for 36 Scouts. Eamonn. PS Happy Mothers Day.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I'll admit that I still like the idea of Scouting being a safe haven. I have a bit of a hard time with the idea of the "Controlled Risk" idea, even though I know it makes sense. As a Lad growing up in a Irish Catholic home it seemed to me that life was very much about consequences. Fail to do something and at some place or time there would be a penalty. Fail to do something at home and there was a chance you could lose your allowance. Fail to do something at school and at that time corporal punishment was allowed. Fail to follow the rules of the church and you faced eternal damnation. While I have no way of ever knowing, I think all of this played a big part in molding me into the person that I am today. It could be said that it worked? Looking back it seems that everything was very much Black or White, Good or Bad. If you done good you got rewarded and if you done bad you got punished. At that time I didn't give this very much thought, it was the way it was and I just accepted it. We as adults are very aware that we face consequences. On one hand if we do well, we live better or more comfortably. We are rewarded with material possessions and have a good chance of spending our time doing things (Activities, work) that we enjoy or gives us a measure of satisfaction. On the other hand, if we don't things aren't so good. Some people might say that luck, fate or chance plays a part in some of this. I'm not a great believer in luck. For a very long time I didn't see a need to share the Vision and Mission Statements of the Boy Scouts of America with the youth members I serve. Looking back I think this selfishness on my part. Back home in England when I was an adult leader, I can't remember ever talking or hearing about a Vision or Mission Statement. I know at that time I thought it was far more important to organize and deliver activities than give much thought as to why we were doing them ! I do remember from the training's I received learning the purpose of Scouting. Which at that time over there was: The physical, mental and spiritual development of the young people, so they become worthwhile members of society. Of course that was over 20 years ago and I see it has changed and now reads: The purpose of Scouting is to promote the development of young people in achieving their full physical, intellectual, social and spiritual potentials, as individuals, as responsible citizens and as members of their local, national and international communities. Back here in the BSA our Vision Statement : The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program. Both the Mission and Vision statement use the: Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law. I happen to like the wording of the Mission a little better because it states: Prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes. In the other Thread, I was asked what the consequence would be if a Scout didn't follow the Scout Law and Oath? I don't think that there is enough information in the question for me to be able to provide an answer. A few years back we were preparing for a Wood Badge course, I had two ordained Ministers on staff. Jokingly I said to them that I wanted them to have a word with their "Boss" about ensuring it didn't rain while the course was on. One very quickly replied that he was "In sales, not service." I used to think that this "Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law, was something that was just up to the adults. I was wrong. If we start agreeing that the Oath and Law applies to all of us who are old and mature enough to grasp and have a understanding of it. We are all in the "Installation".Youth members can and should play as big a part as adults. A little while back Eagledad (Barry) posted something which if I remember correctly went something like: Scouts is the real world scaled down to boy size (I'm sorry Barry if I have got it wrong.) If we are ever going to have any success in preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes, we have to give the opportunities to make choices. Our role as Scouts and Scouter's is to guide and do our best to ensure that no real harm is done. We provide information and guidance. At times one of the hardest things we do is allow a Scout to make a not so good choice. Of course when it comes to the health and safety of the youth in our charge these concerns will over-ride all others. Because we have taken the Scout Oath we would never intentional set anyone up for failure. We do however use failing as a tool to teach and install not only practical lessons, but ethical lessons as well. Doing this within the perimeters of the Oath and Law is not always easy. Of course with a lot of practical situations we point out that the consequences for getting it wrong are or could be harmful even fatal. I like to think that we do a good job of teaching /installing ethical thinking in the young people we serve by stressing the daily good deed, service to others and by placing young people in leadership positions. Leadership can go a very long way into helping a young person really grasp ethical thinking. It also places him or her in a situation where the consequences for not making good and ethical choices have a bigger impact. Of course we as adults can take away the choices; leaving only "Do it this way" or "Don't do it". I really don't seem this as much of a choice and it doesn't offer any real opportunity to lead. We can use tools like Reflections, self-assessment's, well run BOR's and Scoutmaster conferences to deal with a lot of the consequences that our youth members run into. We can remind Scouts and Scouter's that they have have taken the Scout Oath and have stated that they will obey the Scout Law. We can exploit the fact that they look up to us and see us as an example. Not to drive home the point that when they fail to live up to the Oath and Law that they have disappointed or let us down, but they have let themself down. Eamonn.

I have never visited China, but have read that the Chinese consider the chicken thigh with much the same high esteem that we in the west have for the chicken breast. Very often they will tunnel bone the thigh (following the bone with a sharp knife -remove it without cutting the entire thing open) This leaves a cavity that you can stuff. Try swiss cheese and ham, bread stuffing or very finely chopped mushrooms and onions chopped till they are almost a paste, thicken with bread crumbs. Thighs when tossed in seasoned flour and shallow fried can have a very nice crispy skin. Not good for the cholesterol, but very tasty. Legs and thighs tossed in flour and browned in the DO with a couple of ounces of butter. Remove the chicken add a couple of garlic cloves, chopped onion or shallots -Cook till transparent. Add lots and lots of fresh mushrooms. Add a couple of ounces of flour (you just made a roux) add a quart of chicken or beef stock and a palm full (couple of tbs) of tarragon add the chicken and cook slowly for about a hour. Red wine is really good but cooking with wine can cause problems in Boy Scout land. Serve with new potatoes and crusty bread. OR Wash the chicken. Cover barely with water (You can add some onion, carrot, celery and leek (Just the green bit that you normally discard) Cook the chicken by boiling it for about half an hour. Remove the chicken. reduce the water (now stock by about half) Remove the stuff you added if poss strain but it's camp!! Pull chicken from bone, remove skin - break into bite size chunks. Melt a sick of butter or margarine add chopped onion, garlic, shallots and the white of the leek (if you don't have leek it's no big deal) Measure some long grain rice add to the pan cook for a couple of mins -do not color. Measure the stock so you have exactly twice the amount of stock to rice. Add stock a little at a time bringing to a boil each time. Add chicken. (You can add smoked ham, sausage, shrimp, crab, oysters -But if you are adding Sea food wait for about ten minutes) When all the stock has been added cover with a tight fitting lid. Cook over med heat for approx 20 mins. You can add thawed frozen peas (Canned will work but I don't like canned veggies!!) A great one pot meal. I'm not very happy with Scouts deep frying stuff at camp -The oil is just too hot!! Chicken and dumplings is a great camp meal. I normally par boil chicken before pan frying it, just to make sure its cooked all the way through. Steamed chicken thighs stuffed with spring onions is nice. I like curry as long as it's not killer hot!! Pulled chicken in Pita-Bread with toasted sesame seeds is a nice lunch. You can use different oils to cook chicken in. Chicken leggs breaded with crushed corn flakes or ritz crackers cooked in walnut oil is nice. To save time and prevent some of the risks you might want to boil the chicken at home first. Freeze the stock in plastic bottles or boil it down to a concetrate and the freeze it. Eamonn

"So if a Scout doesn't live to the Oath or Law, what happens, Eamonn? " Ed, I think Eagledad said it better than I can. He posted: "I believe the main job of the Scoutmaster is motivating change of behavior. We are to encourage the scouts to practice new behaviors so that they develop habits that lead to developing better character. We adults can't make boys change, they have to be motivated to doing it on their own. Usually we do this through helping the scout see rational reasoning of how behavior affects those around us." I really think ethical people do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do. They don't practice ethics out of fear of being caught and having to face a consequence or for some sort of reward. The big question is not what happens when a Scout doesn't live up to the Oath and Law? It should be What happens when he does? Will they do it all the time? Heck NO. If they did we might think about just becoming a camping club. We are trying to help build the Scouts we serve into people of good character. Ethical thinking is something that each person needs to work on. We as adult youth leaders need to set the example. I think most if not all of us would agree that slapping/hitting is a definite no. Name calling is a definite no. In fact doing anything that would harm a Scout in body or in spirit should be a no. While a lot of Scouts might be fine with managing the silly song, I don't see this as a good way of teaching ethics. Paying a fine for getting caught isn't the same as installing ethical values. There are however times when Scouts do by their own doing pay a consequence for their actions and this can be a learning experience. We had two Lads the other week who when we arrived late at night at where we were camping found that they had not packed a flash-light. They had to wait until the other Scouts had their tents up before they could start erecting theirs. They had to manage with out a flash light. I know it's not a very big thing. But next time they pack their gear I'm sure they will be more mentally awake and remember that it gets dark at night. A flash-light was on the list of things that the Boatswain's Mate had sent. It might be said that this comes under "Obedient"? All sorts of things can happen when Scouts don't follow the Oath and Law. Hopefully we as adult leaders /advisor's use these failures as opportunities to practice teaching ethics and character building. As the old song goes: "It's not what you do it's the way that you do it" Sure the cuss cup might eliminate bad language. But as FScouter posted: "Does the cup method really achieve the real objective? What does the boy do in a situation when there is no cup? What goes through the boys mind: I want to avoid paying a quarter, or I want to keep a clean mouth and not offend others? Eamonn.

I don't know about all the legal stuff. But what a truly sad story. I feel bad for the Scout. I feel bad for his parents, family and friends. I feel bad for the CO I feel bad for the family and friends of the Scoutmaster. I don't know what makes people abuse young children. They must be suffering from something. I hope the guy gets the help he needs. 150 Million Dollars sounds like a lot of money to me -I'm not sure if it's enough or too much? But if the going rate for a slip of the tongue is 25 cents maybe it's not out of line? I hope this is a case of a lawyer grasping at straws. if it is coming from the BSA? I feel bad about that as well. Eamonn.

"Following the Scout Oath & Law is the best way to go. But there are no immediate consequences for not following it." Strange I thought "On my honor I will do my best" didn't carry consequences. When I read : The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. I read instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. I don't read by making them suffer the consequences if they don't. I don't see that they will do what they are told or pay up. There are some tasks that I undertake, where I sit alone swearing to myself, is there a pay now cuss later plan? Eamonn.

My son choose not to recharter with the Troop. (Mainly due to the fact that they charge $65.00 and he would have to pay half) He has just completed his Eagle project. He filled all the positions of responsibility as a Boy Scout. We have his records. But he is no longer a Boy Scout -He is a Sea Scout. He will attend the Eagle Scout Rank BOR as a Sea Scout. We have two other Sea Scouts who choose not to be multiples. Right now they show no interest in working on their Eagle Scout rank, but that might change. If it does we will be more than happy to work with them. While past credit for some things can not be used in Venturing or Sea Scouting, requirement met while a Sea Scout or Venturer can be used to meet certain Boy Scout requirements. While there are knowledgeable DE's out there, it is worth remembering that the NE-Region lost 15% of the Venturing membership last year. A lot of this "Loss" can be attributed to just six councils!! Councils who didn't really understand Venturing and signed up youth that really ought to have been in Exploring or some other LFL program. The Council I'm in "Lost" over 400 Venturers. The guy who pushed this through was at the time seen as the White Knight of the Council. It was said that he had a deep understanding of what Venturing was all about. He got promoted, moved to a new Council. -Leaving the clean up for some-other poor soul. When it comes to program talk to volunteers in the program, they have the same agenda as you do. Sadly some professionals don't. Eamonn.

The Eagle Award Eagle Scout is primarily a recognition for boys in Boy Scout troops. However, having attained the First Class rank in a Boy Scout troop, a male Venturer may continue to work toward becoming an Eagle Scout until his eighteenth birthday by meeting the requirements as prescribed in the Boy Scout Handbook. Leadership requirements may be met in the Ship as Boatswain, Boatswain's Mate, Yeoman, or Purser. The personal conferences will be conducted by the Skipper and the bridge of review for each progress award must be reviewed by the Ship Committee. Taken for the Sea Scout web site. CNYScouter Why would the Leadership requirements be Venturing or Sea Scout positions if the Lad was still in the Troop? Why would the Skipper take the place of the SM? A Lad can remain in the Troop and be a member of a Crew or a Ship but he doesn't have to. Could it be that the DE needs the Boy Scout membership in order to make Quality District? Or am I not being kind? Eamonn.

CNYScouter Have this poor misguided DE read page 64 of the Venturer Handbook. Make sure he has it the right way, if not he will be reading the Ranger Score Card. I really think you need to stop listening to this person. Our tiny little Council has four DE's, two are under 25, one is over 25 but under 30. The best of the lot is a Lady, who was never involved in Scouting or the BSA until she started working for the BSA. I'm not sure but I think a couple of these may be Eagle Scouts, but as we all know there are some Eagle Scouts and there are some Eagle Scouts?? Just because they are DE's does not mean they know what the heck they are talking about. No one in the Council I'm in has any idea what Sea Scouting is about. They don't have to -That's my job. Please contact one of the Sea Scout Ships near you. You can find a list of the Ships in New York on the Sea Scout web page. Noel Guzman at SSS441VIGILANT@NYC.RR.COM is a really nice fellow, he will talk your ear off (I spent 4 hours on the phone with him one night!) We only have about 500 Sea Scout Ship's in the USA. Everyone I have met and spoken with really wants Sea Scouting to do well. Sadly it seems in Councils where there isn't an established Sea Scouting program, there is a lot of stuff that just isn't right. While we are part of the Council I think you will find that for most Sea Scouting activities the Council is about as useful as pockets in your underwear, you need to contact the other Sea Scouts that are near you. They may not be on your doorstep but with only 500 units that's understandable. Over Memorial Day weekend we are driving five hours to attend The Nygard Regatta. Our Sea Scouts met other Sea Scouts at the winter training weekend and came up with the idea of not only going but using the Regatta events as the basis for the weekly meetings. About 150 Sea Scouts will be at the event along with a bunch of adults, these are the guys/gals who really know what Sea Scouting is all about. These are the people who run the big Sea Scouting events like SEAL. Not some DE who seems to have a knack of opening mouth and inserting foot. Eamonn

Scout Thinking: " If I use bad language I'll have to fork over 25 cents. - I want to keep my quarter so I'm not going to use it" Scout Thinking: " I'm not going to use bad language because it's not the right thing to do and goes against the Scout Law" Both ways end up with no bad language. But one is more in line with what we are trying to do. I know we have "Be Prepared", but what happens when a Lad doesn't have enough money? Can he run a line of credit? Or are we asking him to attend meetings prepared to use bad language? Eamonn.

We have in the past looked at hazing and placing a Scout in a situation with the intent of embarrassing him is just hazing. When I look at what FScouter wrote, I see question marks. As Mr.Mal has pointed out the "Cuss Cup" seems to pass on the message that if you drop your quarter in the cup you are good to go. If we really want to help the Scouts we serve make ethical decisions we need to place them in situations where they have to decide what is the right thing to do. The questions asked by FScouter do just that. The cuss cup doesn't. Asking a Scout why he needs to look after his possessions and property? Explaining why this important is far better than embarrassing him and hazing him. Eamonn.

Some time back in the Sea Scout forum there was a posting from a leader who said that the members of his ship had opted to wear Hawaiian style Shirts. I can't see any reason why the wouldn't. But just as some Boy Scout Troops get known for being good at some specific activity, I think over time the same happens to Crews and Ships. If the Ship becomes known for following the Sea Scout Advancements and is seen wearing the uniforms. The youth that don't like that sort of thing are more than lightly not going to join anyway. Of course the good thing is that the Sea Scout uniforms are so much cheaper than the BSA Scout Stuff uniforms. We have an account with the Navy. We are buying working uniforms direct from the manufacturer and use Ship's Stores. All of our Sea Scouts have the working uniform and most have whites, those that don't are really making the effort to get them, they decided that they want to look good for the up-coming regatta. They are finding things that they want to participate in and a lot of these things have a Sea Scout uniform requirement. Most of them have now made Apprentice a couple are close to Able. But the big thing is that this is what they wanted to do. Eamonn.

"We use a "Cuss Cup". Anyone who curses or says "Oh my G**" pays the "Cup" a quarter. Adults included including visitors" I really don't like this idea. I have seen people try to use this and while it starts off well it very quickly becomes a real pain. Scouts will go out of their way to taunt other Scouts in order to get them to cuss. There have been times when things have happened where cursing might be the lesser of two evils. I'd much prefer someone to let of steam by swearing than beating the heck out of someone. When we have to rely on consequences in order to be leaders I can't help feel that something is not right. Cuss - You pay 25 cents. Mis-use a sharp tool -The corner comes off your card. Lose your Scout cap -Sing a silly song. I HOPE NOT. Eamonn.

I have to own up to not following the thread on cursing. I quit when I seen the bit about parents being asked to remove their son from camp. I can't help thinking that both FScouter and Eagledad have done a wonderful job of showing that one size doesn't fit all when it comes to dealing with situations. Sure the easy way out is to post the "No Cursing" Rule along with the consequence, but that shouldn't be the way we do things. Eamonn.

We have free Rank advancement patches. This doesn't cover MB's. Sadly the list of requirements kept growing and got bigger and bigger. If I remember right it started with participation in popcorn and inviting the FOS team in, then Quality unit was added and so the list went on. In the end leaders started to question if it was worth it? Eamonn.

"Some Sea Scout Ships prefer to plan their program around some specialty such as sailing, careers, scuba diving, or an aquatic sport. They may not utilize Sea Scout uniforms and advancement but offer a flexible program to those young adults having a specific career or hobby interest" http://www.seascout.org/about/getting_started/how_to_organize_a_ship.html While LongHaul is technically correct about the CO and the Ship following a program that is in line with what the CO wants. The program is going to fall flat on it's face if the youth don't want to participate. We need to remember the vision and mission of the BSA. We as adults are trying to make the vision and mission come to life and are using the programs to do so. Sea Scouting is very different on the West Coast than it is where I am in the Northeast. We tend to be more about small boats and sailing , while they have bigger boats and might be closer to Naval traditions. I don't know but maybe in Florida the Sea Scouts are more into scuba than we are. The idea is that we match the program to the interests of the youth. At this time the Sea Scouts in the Ship I'm in happen to like the uniforms and seem to be interested in following the Sea Scout Advancements. We have attended gatherings where there have been Ships that have decided not to use the uniforms and not follow the advancement program. I don't know what they do -But they seem happy doing it. Eamonn.

LongHaul is correct about the wording. We as a Ship will meet through the Summer, mainly meeting to do activities. Our regular weekly Sunday meetings will be on hold. Summer Camp lasts 8 weeks, so even if the Summer Camp Staffers don't attend anything for the 8 weeks they are only missing a few meetings. A new Sea Scout Manual is just about ready to go to print -At least that's what I have been told. The hold up is that there is still a lot of the existing manuals that they need to sell. (Of course only our organization would rise the price of something that they want to move!!) I don't know but I think when the new book comes out the 75% will be gone. CNYScouter You really need to join your nearest Flotilla. These people really do know about Sea Scouting, far more than your Council or DE. I think you will find that they are the nicest group of Scouter's you have ever met. Sea Scouting seems to work best when the Sea Scouts interact with other Sea Scouts. Sure it means adding a few extra miles to the van, but it really is worth it. Eamonn.

CNYScouter I think you need to slow down a little. For now I'd put the advancement stuff on hold. In fact I wouldn't mention it. I don't think any of us no matter what program we are in can offer our CO any guarantees of how long any one is going to stay with the program. You might want to talk with the sailing club and explain that some youth will join, see if they like it or not. If you think back to Wood Badge, right now you and the Ship are in the "Forming Stage". Everyone is very enthusiastic but take my word for it the "Storming Stage" will come. We have "Lost" some really super Scouts. They were gung ho and really into Sea Scouting, but after a few months they came to the realization that they just could manage yet another activity. Treat Boy Scouts who want to join the Ship and work toward Eagle Scout Rank, just as a Boy Scout who is transferring from one Troop to another Troop. Request his Advancement Report and take it from there. We have 7 of our Sea Scouts working on Summer Camp Staff. It's going to be hard, the program will still run through the summer, but we have planned some activities for Saturday afternoon, when they are free -I'm not sure if they will be awake but they will be free. For now if I were you I'd be thinking of activities that will help recruit new members and as soon as you can either elect or appoint (We appointed until we had enough Scouts for an election.) Petty Officers, get them trained. The 75% thing is going to be really hard when some of our Sea Scouts take off for college. Of course it could turn out that the Scouts may decide that they don't want to follow the Sea Scout advancement plan. They may decide that they are going to work on Venturing awards. Our Ship wanted the Sea Scout awards, uniforms, they decided what sort of Ship they wanted. Who knows down the road they may decide they want to just do something that might well be part of Sea Scouting, but not the entire package. They can do this and if we are going to truly allow them to be youth led, we should do what we can to support them. Eamonn.

Great story -Thanks As for "And the boy thought his old man was way cool..." Doesn't the Lad know that all Scouter's are Way Cool..? Eamonn (The Scouting English Wrapper!)