Eamonn

"Troop committee seems to want to limit campouts (half the year) to one nighters. They think the boys shouldn't set up tents in the tents in the dark or hike on a backpacking trip in the dark on Friday night" OK, I'll bite. What has this to do with the Troop Committee? Back on topic. We always go for the two nights!! Trying to get everyone where they need to be on a Saturday is just too hard. Of course if someone has something going on they attend that (Mainly that darn HS Band!!) and come as and when they can make it. Ea.

While I haven't visited or seen the information listed on the CIEC site. I really can't see how a site that is built to manage the vast number of Scouts that attend a Jamboree for two weeks every four years, hopes to be cost effective in the times when there isn't a Jamboree going on. If my memory isn't too far out of whack? I think when President Bush attended the 2005 Jamboree there were 70,000 people in the arena. Philmont only has about 20,000 Scouts, Venturers, and advisors attend Philmont backcountry programs each year. Of course there has been talk of another national high adventure base to be located somewhere in the NE for some time. As far as the PR that Jamborees generate? I seen nothing about the World Jamboree that just ended in any of the papers I read or on the news. I could and did read about it because I made the effort to look for it. While the papers that serve the area close to AP Hill did cover the 2005 Jamboree. Sadly most of the other media coverage wasn't what might be termed PR. There was the coverage of the tragic accident and the number of Scouts who suffered from the heat. Eamonn.

I really have enjoyed the Jamborees that I have attended. From what I see the big problem seem to be the size of them. Accommodating 45,000 Scouts then adding in all the visitors and special guests seems to be a lot of hard work. Finding a new site (If that's what is going to happen??)and spending the money that would be needed for an event that only comes along every four years? Just doesn't seem to go hand in hand with a Scout is thrifty. I know all the Scouts I have talked with who have attended a Jamboree look back on it as being a high point. Still I wonder if maybe the time has come to look at smaller Jamborees done at the Regional level, making use of sites that Councils own and operate. Of course one high point for me was seeing a vast ocean of Boy Scouts all in uniform at the arena. I couldn't help but wish the people who keep on about "The youth of to-day" were there!! Eamonn.

I'm thankful that my son is past Cub Scout age. I'm 100% sure that I really wouldn't want to entrust his care to a group of people who were mandated to serve. While the selection of leaders and volunteers does seem like hard work and might seem to be cumbersome, when the steps are followed it works!! " Unless there is a REAL good reason for doing so, nobody ducks this expectation" I really would hate to try and set myself up as having to be the person who makes this judgment. Her Who Must Be Obeyed (Even through she has done her bit in the past) Works shifts. Unlike her husband who is very outgoing, she is very shy. She would sooner have a root canal than be forced to work with a group of people she doesn't know. She would and has never got up and spoke to a group in what might seem to her to be a public gathering. She freely admits that she doesn't like other peoples kids and jokes that if she had to work with the "Little darlings" membership would suffer as a few of them might go missing!! "We believe that much like any other activity (sports, school) that has an expectation of parental support." I don't know about this! OJ was on the HS track team, other than going to watch his participation , we his parents were not involved or were we asked to be. Same goes for the soccer team and the year he played on the girls volley ball team. We were never invited or asked to support him, or the team. Back when he first started playing soccer at age six I did volunteer my services as a coach. Most of the parents were happy to come and watch the games without getting involved or supporting the team other than paying the sign up fee and paying for the equipment that their son needed. What will be the consequences if a family doesn't have a reason that the judge doesn't deem to be good enough? Do you ask the Lad to quit? I somehow think that mandatory volunteerism is a contradiction. It isn't going to work. Kinda like trying to teach a pig to sing!! My advise is don't waste your time doing something that isn't going to work, will harm the kids who more than lightly would get the most out of the program. Is not in keeping with the guidelines of the BSA. I strongly suggest you rethink this, maybe with a few modifications the http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-626/index.html Will help you select the people you need to deliver the program to the Cub Scouts and the families you are trying to serve. Good Luck. Eamonn.

"Try the book Ashely book on Knots there are over 2000 knots." The ABOK is the Ashely book of knots. Proud to say that Ashley was an Englishman!! While it does have over 2,000 knots they are not all different knots. Old Fred Jenkins who served as a ASM back in the 17th Fulham (Pioneers), the Troop I was SM of claimed to be able to tie all of them!! He took great pride in being one of the first in our area to be able to tie the Hunter's Bend. Sadly Fred passed on about twenty years back, when he did his family (He never married.) gave me all his Scout Stuff. Even his King's Scout Badge and certificate.His copy of the ABOK was included. I still have it and treasure it to this day. Memory is a strange thing!! While most of the time we can amble along, not thinking about very much!! (At least I can!! -I think this is my way of dealing with stress) Sometimes out of no where something happens which triggers off old memories. We have bales of hay stored on the porch of one of the out buildings, sometimes when the humidity and everything else is in place the smell reminds me of playing back in my Grandparents barn back in Ireland. At times when I'm trying to teach a Scout a knot and he or she is having a hard time, I swear I can feel old Fred looking over my shoulder smiling. He always was an old rascal. Eamonn.

Ar they all knots? Or are some of them bends or hitches? I like to think I'm fairly good. But I don't think without my copy of ABOK I'd have a hard time naming 152 different knots, bends or hitches!! Thinking about it I suppose I might be able to get get close to 60. Have to admit that HWMBO and your's truly spend more time watching the telly than holding knot-fests. Ea.

Hi ScoutMKE, Welcome to the forum. I think I'm doing a very bad job of saying that I really think we as youth leaders need to know and be able to recognize early signs that might show a youth member is thinking of harming him or herself. All too often if the signs go un-noticed it's too late to call in the professional help that the youth so desperately needs. I do think if I were in acco40's situation I would opt to do nothing. The young man is not a member of the unit and it really has nothing to do with the unit. If a Scout asked me about it? I tend to think I would mention how very sad it is and highlight what all the good that this young man had done. If this opened the door to a conversation about suicide I would be as open and honest as possible, informing the Scout that if he ever needed to talk to anyone that I'm here for him. Eamonn.

"We would like a loop hole to get this thing done." Do we really want to set the example that finding and using loop-holes is the way to go about things done is OK? I would hope not. Ea.

I'm sorry packsaddle, of course I wasn't directing my comments at anyone specific. I really should have started a new thread. Putting aside the people that acco40 mentions. We as an organization can do some things well when we want too!! Scouting for food works. It does a lot to help people who without might go hungry. Youth Protection seems to work. I wish that it didn't seem to dwell on sexual abuse as much as it does, but it works. The movies are good and we are getting the message across to the youth members and the adults. It might be argued that the Second Class requirement: "Participate in a school, community, or troop program on the dangers of using drugs, alcohol, and tobacco and other practices that could be harmful to your health." Could cover suicide prevention? I really think we (As a organization) need to do more to help prevent teenage suicide. Many of the teenagers who attempt suicide are having problems at home, many come from families with problems and a lot are not active in any religious organization / Church. So saying discuss this at a "Family Meeting"? Or with your Preacher is not going to work. Going back to acco40 and his situation. I'm a little unsure why there is a need to tell anyone? If people find out about it that's up to them. It might be that because of this the Scouts do bring up the subject of suicide, some might even say that they have at times thought about it. (This is not unusual in teenagers.) We or at least most of us are not equipped to deal with deeply troubled youth. But if we recognize the signs, if we can be a real friend to these youth we can do a lot to prevent them harming themselves. Eamonn.

"However, similar to religion, sex issues, etc. I feel this is best handled by parents" I have to disagree. We just can not turn our back on this. Too many kids are killing themselves. We need to treat this just as we treat drug abuse and unsafe driving. Passing the buck is just not acceptable. "To keep myself physically strong,.." is at the very core of what we are about. Far more important that we the adults know the signs and how to help a teenager not commit suicide than be able to do a few pull-ups?? How can we turn a "Blind eye" to the the third leading cause of death in the age group we are serving? Ea.

I really feel so very sad for the parents and friends of this young man. As for our role? I whole heartedly believe that even though it's not easy to talk about we do need to take teenage suicide as seriously as we take drug abuse and safe driving practices. Teenage suicide is is one of the leading causes of death for teenagers - its the third leading cause. We had a Scout in our District who may have committed. suicide.(He might have been trying Autoerotic asphyxia for sexual pleasure) Because of this I did buy Adolescent Suicide: Assessment And Intervention a book by by Alan L. Berman, David A. Jobes, and Morton M. Silverman. As some of the Scouts are aware what happened, I feel that any effort to try and keep it quite is not going to work. Sadly at times we seem to attach some sort of blame on the suicide victim. This is not a good thing. Not all suicides are planned and many could be prevented if we know and teach the signs. I happen to believe that meeting and dealing with the subject head on is something that we as an organization should and must be doing. I wish it was included in the training's we over Scout Leaders and Venturers. Eamonn.

The Lad, his family and Troop members are in my prayers. Here is this part of SW -PA (I live about 30 miles from Heritage Reservation and know Rick Adobato from him helping me when I was looking after Day Camps)We have had a day of very nasty storms and flooding. Ed knows more about the way the camp sites are laid out than I do. One thing I do try to stress to anyone moving anything hot is to make sure you know where your going to put it.Make sure there is room and the space is clear. Ea.

Sure the problem at hand is the lack of drivers. You can make a list of your options and share the list with the QD. Lots of ideas here as to what the options are. But what is the real problem or problems? Lack of adult support? Poor planning? Bad communication? Once you fix the real problems the little ones tend to fix themselves. Ea.

Injury reporting is a good way of covering your tail!! Keeping a log book near or in the First Aid Box/Kit is a good idea. How far you or the unit wants to go with it is up to you the unit and the CO if your lucky enough to have an interested CO!! Documenting and having a paper trail is in most cases a very good idea. Informing the Council of any injury that might lead to some sort of a claim is a very good idea. A small cut that needs a couple of stitches? I think if the family had health insurance, I'd let go, but a cut that has the possibility of leaving a noticeable permanent scar, which at a later date might need more treatment? I'd deal with differently. If your unsure what to do? Call the Council Service Center and follow up with a letter, keeping a copy on file. This might come under the heading of Be Prepared!! Ea.

It seems to me that most of the kids I know (Teenagers) either read just about anything (And a lot of stuff that maybe they shouldn't!!) Or they read only what they are forced to read for book reports and the like. I wonder how many adults who are involved with Troops, Crews and Ships have read the handbooks? I don't think I have ever met a Lad who really reads the Bible. Every now and then they might use it as a reference book. OJ's God-Father (My older brother) bought him a very expensive Catholic Bible when he was baptized. It has lived in his sock drawer and rarely seen the light of day. He isn't like his "Old Man" he never has seemed to be a great reader. Maybe because there never was that much time. The School bus picked him up at 0630, school ended at 1500. Then there was some sort of practice (Track, Soccer, School Play, Choir) Then it was home and there was Scouts or some other activity. (Sometimes he just fell asleep) Homework and then as he got older a part-time job. He has of course gone through all the video games (Nintendo, Game Boy and PS2) But never really played them a lot, mainly because he never had the cash to spend on new games -Dad is really cheap and Scouting events kept him poor!! (Bank of Dad only paid 50% the other 50% had to be earned) Sure when I was a kid Bedrooms were for sleeping and reading in at times by flash-light!! His room has every high tech toy known to man. I swear if we put a microwave and a fridge in there we will never see him again!! Ea.

I feel sure that if Mr.Crossramwedge Junior (Yes him not you!!) finds out who to talk with and explains the situation something could be worked out. There might have to be some give and take on both sides!! The Lodge might have to come up with a way of making it happen and Junior more than lightly will have to give up a weekend that he wasn't planning on giving up. I do however feel that he needs to approach this from a "Hey I need your help" stance and definitely not from a "Hey you screwed up and nobody notified me!" stance. The officers in the Lodge are all youth members and I feel it's important that every effort should be made to allow the youth to work out what needs to be done with another youth member. Ea.

Don't know about other camps? But at Camp Conestoga, the campers don't do much on Saturday AM. So if people departing early is a problem, why not plan to depart after the camp fire on Friday? Ea. (It would be a shame to miss the end of camp reflection on Friday night!)

" it will reshape scouting into what is relevant to the youth of today and tomorrow." I was invited to sit in on the last District Committee Meeting. It was sad!! We have lost a lot of units and a lot of kids. Our DE has moved on and for the present it seems that there is no real rush to replace him. I get the feeling that someone (The SE??) is playing a wait and see game. If things don't pick up the District will gone. The new District Membership Chairman is a old timer. He seems to have been around for ever telling everyone about the good old days. He isn't married and has no kids. But he can tell you all about units that haven't been around for over 30 years!! He hates anything that might be seen as not old. I swear he still uses a quill pen!! He spent a lot of time at the meeting complaining that he doesn't get notified of meetings because he doesn't have e-mail. A lot is riding on this years Sign-Up Night. I like this old fellow, but he really isn't going to bring home the bacon. After the meeting the District Chairman asked what I thought? I asked what plans were in place for Sign-Up Night? He looked at his feet, shook his head and said "I have no idea!!" He went on to say that we needed 250 Cub Scouts to sign up. I didn't have the heart to tell him that as a rule we get about 100 on the night and the best we have ever done is 125, that was when we had five more packs than we now have. We really do have to do more to make Scouting attractive and appealing to the parents and the kids. While it's nice to look back and at times revisit things we used to do (activities) We however need to remember that this is the 21st Century. At times I have to remind myself that many of the Tiger Cub parents were born after John Lennon was shot and killed! Ea.

My one sister lives very close to where the World Jamboree is being held, so close that she can hear the concerts and things that are going on. While the invasion of thousands of Scouts on the small village has had an impact she (Who is not and never has been involved in Scouting)tells she that she is impressed with how well things are going. In fact she says the biggest headache was dealing with the security when the Prince visited the Jamboree. I joined Scouts back home in the early 1960's. I had a great time as a youth member in all of the programs. By the time I was about 16 most of my pals in school were not in Scouting. Looking back maybe I was seen as the "Odd Ball"? I was very involved in a lot of things that interested me but maybe were seen by my peers as not being "Cool" (I think the term we used at that time was "Neat") I was involved in the drama department and was a budding thespian, played on the school and house rugby teams, was Head Boy and chairman of the School Youth Council. While many of my pals were into progressive music; King Crimson and the like I was happy with the Beatles, the Stones and the Who. Even though the school I attended had a strict School Uniform policy (black socks, grey trousers, white shirt, school tie, school blazer with the school badge on the pocket, silly little cap with the badge and a long woolen scarf in the school colors for winter.) With uniforms for all the sports. I remember looking at photos of Scouts from the early days and thinking how old fashioned they were!! I never camped in a Bell Tent, never pushed a Trek Cart to camp and when I read Scouting For Boys, seem to remember thinking that it was really dated. Many of the adults involved when I was a kid had been involved before the war. Many of the Commissioners (The Top guys, not the same as over here.) Seemed to be "Upper Class" sorts. Many had or seemed to have lots of money!! Many of the leaders had served in the military. I don't think things were more organized, in fact looking back it was more chaotic! But maybe that was just where I was at!! Even then there seemed to be a sense that things were not as good as they used to be and we were heading toward a sticky end. This was made worse in 1969 when the Advanced Party Report tried to update Scouting. I'm very thankful for everything that Scouts and Scouting has given to me. I have over the years had the best times in Scouting. Thanks to Scouting I have found a new home here in the USA, met and married Her Who Must Be Obeyed. Most of my best friends are people I have met through Scouting and by just being a Scout I do think it has impacted my values and the way I treat and deal with other people. As with any anniversary, looking back is nice and enjoyable, sure we look back and notice that some things are not the same or not there any more, we remember people who played a big part in helping us become what we are, sadly some of these people are gone, but hopefully we can put to use the gifts they gave us. But it is also a time to look to the future. If we are honest we all know that change will happen. We know if we don't change we are going to be left behind and soon will become Scouting Dodos. When I look at my son and the Scouts in the Ship, I see these young people with just about every high tech toy known to man. I wish I could get my cell phone to do what they can get their's to do!! Yet I'm amazed how quickly they can adapt to going away without the need to use these toys and how given the opportunity they can work as a team and how after a week or so of being in a youth led, challenging, adventurous environment how very proud they are of themselves. Sure the equipment is not the same, in most cases it's better and some of that is now very high tech (When it works!!) Of course none of the kids I serve are dirty little urchins from the streets of London. In fact nearly all of them are well adjusted great kids from good families who will be great adults and Scouts and Scouting really isn't going to change them that much. Every now and then we do introduce a young person to something that they might not have thought about doing or we might provide the spark that lights the fire that does change the course of their lives. I do believe that by us just doing what we do, we set the example that does show that volunteering to do something for someone else without pay is a good thing. My big hope for the future is that we as a organization can start to put more effort into providing programs for teenagers and the age group that BP had in mind. Not that I'm in any way anti Cub Scout. I'm not sure what we have to do to make this happen? I do think that no matter what we do a lot of people my age and older will see it as being the end of the world as we know it! Sadly I also think if we opt to do nothing we will not be here in 2107. Eamonn

Lately scoutldr I have found myself agreeing with most of what you post, however this time I don't. "Scouting is for the boys...to cancel a youth-centered event because of an adult training event is just wrong." Sure Scouting is for the youth members, but trained leaders provide a far better program. So while not holding one event or missing a Camporee might be sad , in the long run the program is far better. "Just based on numbers, say a District Camporee would attract 500 people (youth and adult). How does that compare to WB which may involve, say, 5% of that number from the district (all adults)? " A full WB Course with 8 adult patrols with each patrol having eight members (64 adults) has the potential of reaching thousands of Scouts. The course I directed had our SE as a participant, the Council Cub Camping Chairman along with a few District types. I'm unsure if you can really make this into a numbers game? "Any unit that can't attend a Camporee because one or two of its adults is attending WB is a unit in trouble." I'm not sure if that's true, but I do think a unit that misses a Camporee because the leaders are at WB will benefit more from the leaders attending the course than from being at the Camporee . "To force a unit to cancel an event that they volunteered to plan and host is wrong. If the dates had been agreed upon in advance by the district committee, then it needs to continue." Clearly someone messed up (The District Chairman??) The dates should not have been agreed on to start with. In my view a unit ought not be planning and hosting the event. The District Committee should have been doing everything they could to help support the Council and the Council run WB Course!! When this was brought up at the District Committee meeting (If it was brought up?? As it should have been.) Where was the Training Chair? Our Council Calendar is planned 18 months in advance, didn't anyone at the meeting have a copy? Not wanting to hijack the thread, but.... IMHO. Districts need to take care that they are not doing too much. Too many District events and Camporees get in the way of the Troop program, in most cases they don't really allow the Scouts to develop any real leadership skills (Planning and the like) They don't follow the theme that a Troop might be trying to follow and can just get in the way. Worse still at times there is an expectation that Troops ought to attend and when they don't they are seen as not supporting the District. When in fact they are not there to support the District and the District is supposed to be supporting them. (End of rant.) Ea.

"How in the world do you hold troop meeting that provide time nd opportunities for scouts to work on the 11 require MB's?" As the other wise and learned members have posted the answer is you don't. Still with a little shall we say "Manipulation"??? You might be able to get the PLC to do some Stealth Merit Badge Work. Doing things and having activities that do meet and cover the requirements without the Scouts really knowing that they are doing them. Ea.

"In June the troop volunteering to host the fall Camporee had the date they selected approved by the district chairman." "The training course, well you see it happens to be Wood Badge." While of course I don't really know!! It kinda sounds as if the District Chairman made a mistake. Wood Badge courses take a lot of planning and the dates are set a long time in advance. While it might not seem fair, Council events such as a WB course do trump District Events. Having been a District Training Chairman and WB Course Director, I know I would not want any other activity going on that might give people an excuse to not attend WB. Have to admit to not being very keen on Troops hosting District Events. These event should be there for the Troops to participate in and enjoy. That's why we have a District Activities Committee. I can see that someone with a special skill might be asked to do his or her bit, but having a unit "Host" the event is not such a good idea. Ea.

How about waiting till you have enough for each little fellow, inflating them, sticking them in a nearby stream (with a way of removing them) and have a BoJ bladder Race. They could be decorated to fit in with the theme of the camp. Ea.

"fifteen... [crash] ... " I lucked out!! I have a hard enough time with only ten!! As a Scout across the pond there was only seven parts of the Scout Law. And the "To keep myself physically strong,mentally awake, and morally straight" Was never heard of. Ea.

A couple of years back, me being the kind fellow that I am??? I took all the people who worked on the District Community FOS to dinner -At camp!! Yes I picked up the tab ($3.50 a head!!) I'd guess the average age of the people who came up was - Late 40's early 50's. My thinking was that I'd feed them and then let them see the Scouts in action and where the money was going. A few of them had been Scouts and had been at the camp a long time back. The camp has undergone a lot of improvements. A new lake (beats the creek which was more like a big puddle!!) New shooting sports ranges. (God bless the NRA) I don't remember ever being at the camp when any of these guys were there. So I don't know how good or bad the program was. It did strike me as odd that no one mentioned the program. They remembered the Dining Hall (The building not the food) and the old stinky toilets -Which have all been replaced with Shower blocks. Back when I was playing bartender a lot of people knew of my involvement in Scouting (The popcorn display might have had something to do with it??)Talking with these guys the big thing they seemed to remember from their youth was the Pine Wood Derby cars and races. I have a great story about the Scouts back home and chemical toilets -But it's late. Good night!! Ea.