Eagledad

>>>>I've got 14 years of unit leader experience,

Some folks just cant get past their own world to see the big picture. There is a lot more room for different ideas and methods than just their one size fits all type of scouting. Or maybe they just dont have good personal skills, who knows? Still, you have to be somewhat picky on the suggestions you choose because Ive done this long enough to recognize that some folks style of forcing scouts to be boy run is not the same as guiding them to grow boy run. I personally think you are doing a pretty good job Eagle732 and both the parents and scouts should be proud to have you as their troop ad

>>My personal un-pc view is that our public school system discourages independance, out of box thinking and initiative, so that's reflected in their scouting activities.

This is a very good question and since I dont have the talent of many folks here to be short about and answer, I will throw in just a few comments and go from there. I do like what jblake has written. As a SM, I personally had a lot of goals. But if you added them up in one bag, It would be that I developed the scouts so that if the adults didnt show up to a meeting or campout, the scouts would behave the same. I was trying to put the adults out of a job. As for the boys, we taught them to set goals from the day they came in. When they were learning scout skills, we ask them to set a

I think being out of the room was fine, but it is important to know what was going on. In fact, being out of the room lets the scouts act in the way they think is appropriate and allows you to see what needs fixing. Your goal is teach them the skills so that the meeting would run no different if you didn't show up that day. You are teaching independence. In my world, the boys do nothing wrong, they just dont know how to do it right yet. So we train them. Also, never give a boy more than they can handle in the next meeting. In other words, dont give a one hour lecture on how to run meetin

I meant your goals. Boys are in the troop for the adventure. Adults are in it to help boys become men of character. You cant get out of a rut if you dont know where you are going. For example: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The BSA wants ever part of the troop program to contribute to that Mission. Does your troop program do that? Here is the thing, if you dont have a goal, how do you measure if you are making progress. The B

Have you camped with the troop? For that matter, have you watched a troop meeting? I'm courious why the troop is asking someone that isn't a member of the troop to take over the leadership. Barry

Turning the troop into a backpacking troop is a wonderful way to turn the program into a self-reliance teaching program. I once had a mother donate money to our troop when she realized how well the program worked. Her 18 year old son (not a scout) went to his 14 year old scout brother to learn how to stay dry on the forcasted wet church campout he was about to go on. It was a little thing, but it made a huge impression on her because it was the first time she realized that her son would be OK if left out in the woods by himself. Something most moms fear I guess. Barry

Not bad really, I think you are getting there. But what are your goals? The troop of today shouldn't look like the troop of tomorrow because Scouting is about boys growing into men of character. Boy Run has a purpose in boy growth, if boys are growing, then they are changing which is probably why your COR doesn't like it. Likely nobody has explained it to him in that way. This isn't Cub Scouts, the Troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. What do you want the 17 year old man in your troop to look like? Folks will not understand a program when they don't see the vision. Barry

Through my years of working with boys, I have witnessed that the adults the scouts respect the most in the area of a relationship with God are adults who role model a moral lifestyle without really exposing their own personal religion. I have seen grown up scouts confess this to those adults later in their life. Its more of an adult problem than a scout problem. An adult who thinks there is hypocrisy in scouting is an automatic red flag that they are not likely a good advisor in this regard. If one adults response is judgmental and sets the boy in one direction, it takes away from his ab

The Last Frontier Council has just such a course unless it has changed in the last couple years. It is a two weekend course of outdoor skills where the participants are working out of their pack during the whole course. I can't remember what its called and I have not attended it because I was a little busy at the time for that much additional outdoor training (I was camping 70 days a year at the time). It is considered a very advanced elite outdoor skills course. The instructors are all very experienced and passionate with sticking with a strict syllabus. I never heard anything but rave

I would suggest you Not break up the two patrols because you would in a sense be starting over. Its hard enough developing patrol bonding without breaking them up every time the troop becomes imbalanced. Instead you use the existing patrols as a resource for future new patrols. This is the one time that I would use the NSP. I have experienced this very scenario a few times and learned the hard way from the experience. You will be a lot farther a head with the first two patrol staying together and growing stronger. I think you need at least three NSP with 20 scouts to be manageable.

>>Best idea keep the new scouts together with an older troop guide

I was the SM Specific trainer for our District for four years and I ran into the very same challenges Kudu mentioned. I also was of like mind with Beav that we couldnt stray away from the subject at hand. There are many important reasons for that, but just staying consistent with the training of other districts was important at the time. We discussed that these courses could not become a lecture about Barry Boy Scout program, or Bobs Boy Scout Program or Carols Boy Scout program. It was the BSAs and we needed to respect that to the fullest possible. I must admit that I was asked to take

I guess it is all relative. I developed the reputation as the most traditional SM in the District. I never really considered that because I was just doing it the way I learned when I was a boy scout. Another SM friend, who was never a boy scout as a youth, called me at work one Monday and asked what his scouts should do on campouts when they get bored with learning scout skills. At first I thought he was joking, but then he explained that he was doing everything that he learned at Wood Badge (old course) and SM Handbook. His agendas were pretty regimented with getting up, eating breakfast, sco

>>Has your PLC considered planning fun activities for Sundays?

I can't ever remember the oath and law not being said at any opening, Troop or otherwise. The "retesting" thing is a form politcal correctness of modern scouting and has lost its true meaning and intent from uses like this. The oath and law are the pillars of the ideals the BSA program uses for building the kind of character we want our sons to take with them the rest of their life. Without the oath and law, we are just a camping club. If a boy gets nothing else from the program, he should at least take with him the oath and law. And they get them simply by repeating it at least once ever

I think ane evaluation is another good source of communication. True, there are the reviews and confrences, but we tend to get in a groove or rut (depending how you look at it) that could leave folks out. We once did something like this for the families so both the parents scouts could rate the troop. We found out that while the scouts were happy with the program, the parents had some questions about the way we did some activities. For example, there was some concern that adults weren't allowed to the PLC meetings. But the policy is any adult could attend if they first called and got permissio

>>I personally don't ever want to be SM, I do think it's important for these young men to have a good male role model... I hang around because I think it's also good for these young men to see that a woman can do all the same things they do

>>And if someone woke me up in the middle of the night and asked me to go watch em pee, I would first wonder if they were serious, second if they were high off of anything, and if they insisted I would probably punch them.

Philmont doesn't really have a problem either. It has the appearance of a problem because the scouting community network is broad spreads news really fast. One incident sets off a pretty big alarm. Im trying to remember, but I want to say that they have had only two bear incidents in the last 20 years with only one of those requiring medical attention. Barry

>>NT in Bissett, MB doesn't use bear bags. The trees that far north just aren't big enough to properly hang a bag. So, bear canoes are the norm. You put the food packs on the ground and a canoe upside down over them, away from the tents. Then stack your pots on the canoe. Anyone hears the pots, rally everyone awake to scare the bear off.

I have always wanted to hike the Mid Alantic area, they say the view is unbelievable. I'll give you a call when we head east so you can point us to best spots. I can see that Philmont is quite a jog from your part of the county. I grew up in New Mexico, so its home to me and Philmont is just a day drive for us from Oklahoma. I'd say we are lucky, but I'm not sure Philmont can beat what you already have. There is the Philmont program of course and that is unique. But as far as a great back county experience, hard to beat the Mid Atlantic. Barry

I guess we are all different in our habits, but I was taught a long time ago that shelter always comes first in the wilderness because a person is a lot more susceptible to hypothermia when they are fatigued. I actually saw this happen to a few scouts on a Northern Tier trip and it certainly made me more aware of the risk. Thatis also what is taught at servival schools. Also the odds to me that a bear will wonder through a bunch of loud campers busy setting up their camp is much smaller compared to being caught in an afternoon rain shower. Ironically the BSA Guides on our Pecos backpackin

I found it interesting at Philmont that the crews very first task after reaching a camp is putting up the bear bag. Back county protocol any other place in the world is set up your tent first incase bad weather sets in. But the bear attacks at Philmont motivated the staff to create an aggressive bear policy. They are so serious about bear safety at Philmont that one adult in another crew was pulled off the trail for being caught not following the bear prevention policies. He was warned once and then asked to leave when he contested the policy to the ranger. The ranger left camp and came back w