Eagledad

Good post CP. Some of the Den leaders in our area ask the school if their den could raise and lower the flag for them before or after school. I've never watched them do it, but the Den leaders say the boys have a lot of fun. I imagine since there is no audience, they could raise and lower it several times. I know a few our dens over the years did perform for audiences in our community, but I can't recall where because I was never able to attend. While I was in the pack, two of our 2nd year Webelos were assigned to be responsible for the opening and closing ceremonies at each pack gathering. They had two 1st year Webelos assist and observe them so they would know what to do next year. Since each den got the chance to be the color guard at a Pack meeting, the Webelos responsibility was to teach them how to perform the ceremony and help the den where ever they needed. The scouts showed up one hour early so the Webelos could do the training. Always went pretty well and the parents loved taking pictures of their sons doing it. Every scout in the pack was part of the color guard at least once every year. Sometimes the Tigers were so small that it might take two of them to hold each flag. Our pack had a tradition that when the Color Guard leaders commanded "Audience Attention!", "Color Guard Attention!", the den doing the ceremony would shout their Den yell as they came to attention. It was fun to watch. Our troop took that idea and the color guard would come up with some new clever saying at each Troop meeting. It help make the ceremony more fun. Barry

From the handbook. 2e: Learn how to raise a US flag properly for an outdoor ceremony. 2f: Participate in an outdoor flag ceremony. 2g: With the help of another person, fold the flag. Notes: These three can be done together, or folding the flag can be done separately, indoors. If you meet at a place with a flagpole, like an school, ask permission to practice with their flag. You can have an outdoor flac ceremony with your Den, you don't need to wait for a Pack meeting. Barry

Our pack does at least four outdoor Pack meetings and campfires a year with a flag ceremony performed at each. Stretching that out a bit, our local baseball team usually has scout day where every boy who dresses in his uniform is given free admittance. Any scout from tiger to Venture will have exercised the actions stipulated in the requirement if they attend any one of those activities. I can easily think of more, but you understand what I'm saying. Is that what National had in mind for the Bear Scout's special experience? Who knows, but shouldn't their experience be a bit more more than the other scouts who are just attending? Just an aside, every den in our pack gets to participate with the color guard at least one meeting every year. Not because of any requirement, but just for the fun of it. Barry

I have never heard or seen of participating being interpreted as just being part of the audience. That to me is putting the focus on advancement and not the adventure of scouting. Scouting is supposed to be fun, don't shortchange that experience by short cutting advancement requirements. Instead be cleaver in finding opportunities to enhance experience. Give the boys memories of special moments that they can only get in their scouting program. Give them a reason to brag to their friends of what they are doing in their scouting program. Barry

If you really want to impress the scouts, call the SM to ask for the SPLs number so you can ask him if it is ok.

Ken was being helpful, he is not your enemy. What does the bible say about pride and humility? Barry

I've said before that its the adults who get flustered, not the scouts with pop in visits. This discussion kind of supports that. I'm not proposing that a troop risk showing its worst side and I'm not even really suggesting a troop show off its typical program. For me its just staying out of the way of our scouts' scheduled program. It is hard enough for the scouts to run an all year program with the normal issues that pop up, now we want to add "Webelos Day"? I had to laugh when stosh says he trains his scouts for surprise visits. He trains them to do what? What I think he really means is that his scouts are prepared for visitors anytime they visit with a set of procedures, same as ours. Our SPL has a policy to meet the Webs and parents at the door and introduce himself. Then he mixes the Webelos in with the Patrols. After the flag ceremony, he pulls the parents together to briefly explain the program and answer questions for about 5 minutes. Then the SM takes the parents and further explains the program and answer questions while the SPL goes off to his normal duties. It has very little interruption to the normal program and really none to the PLs. My point is that it is a lot easier for our scouts to not plan some kind of special Webelos visit program and just work with visitors when they pop in. Same goes with campouts, the program isn't going to change. The PLC just works the visitors in as best they can. We once had a den pop in on our rappelling campout. They couldn't rappel with our scouts because they missed all the training the previous month, but observing our scouts in actions was still exciting for them. And a couple of our adults knew of a nearby location where the Webelos could do some rock climbing for their level of maturity and experience. They left before dinner and joined our troop a month later. Again, no sweat off the scouts to cater to the Webelos because they ran their normal program. Barry

Well I guess our troop is the only one that uses kevlar. Everyone can carry a kevlar and it is not only easier to pickup, but it goes through the water easier. Yes, users have to be more careful, we but have never damaged one. Barry

I've told this story before, but at the Blue and Gold Banquet of my first year as a Cub Master, I was chatting with the Webelos who were crossing over into a troop that night and I asked them why they chose that troop. They said because they had the best game at the troop meetings. 80% of those boys dropped out of scouting by the end of that year. I'm not a big fan of coaching scouts to ask a lot of questions at troop visits because boys this age like to feel the experience, not analyze it with an accumulation of facts. Oh, they should ask a couple questions that give them an idea of what to expect like: “what is the most fun thing you do in this troop and what are the best camp outs?â€. AND, “what is the worst part of the troop?â€. Webelos don’t really understand boy run or merit badge mills or whatever, but they are experts in fun. Encourage them to get a feel if the troop is fun and why. But searching for a troop should be a team effort with the adults and the boys working together. Most scouts who picked a troop without the help of adults quit in their first year. So the adults need to ask the structural questions that fill in the details of the cogs, pulleys and gears that move the troop from point A to point B. But you don’t have shoot a borage of questions at the SM like a machine gun. Some questions just don’t need to be asked. For example does any troop leader think their troop is not boy run or that they are a merit badge mill? We can’t even agree on boy run programs on this forum, so is it realistic for a parent to understand what they are asking or learn much by the answers? Instead ask what I think is on the mind of most parents "how will you get my son his eagle?". I know it’s on their minds because that was asked of me by every group that ever visited us, and it was the hardest question for me to answer. But, you can learn a lot about the troop by that one question like, Do they do advancement in the troop program or wait until summer camp? Do they have a set agenda for each scout reaching rank or is the scout guided to plan his own agenda? And usually the answers will lead to other pertinent questions. Another good question is: "Give us an example of how a camp out is planned from its creation to loading the cars on Friday night?". The answer to that question will tell you how much the adults and boys involved in the planning and running of the troop from annual planning down to the PLC meeting. And the answer will lead you to ask other key questions like: who plans the meals, when? Who buys the meals? Who cooks the meals? The answers to all those questions will give you a feel for roles of the adults and scouts in the program. “What do you expect from the parents?â€. That should provide answers to training, committee, who camps, who drives, who leads and so on. And there is one question that is rarely mentioned but I find is really important, “How long is the present leadership expected to stay with the troop?â€. Fact is most programs have some noticeable changes after the adult leadership changes and I have seen sooooo many program loose half their membership in the first year as a result. If the SM plans to leave in the next few months, you want to know. By the same token, I notice stosh presented his resume to the OP but he didn’t say how big his troop is. 10 scouts joining a troop of 100 is no big deal. 10 scouts joining a troop of six is no longer the troop that the Webelos visited. A troop that increases by 50% is basically starting all over. So you can learn a lot about the maturity and organizing of the troop by asking them how many new scouts they are expecting and what is their plan for dealing with the increase numbers?â€. Oh, the big question in this discussion, should you call a head? Many troops change their program for visitors, so I like unannounced visits, but I do give them one days’ notice. One day allows the SPL to be ready without giving enough time to change the program agenda. Truth of the matter is the scouts usually do OK with unannounced visits, it’s the adults that get flustered. I once watched an ASM go into a tirade with the SPL because of the stress of 16 Webelos and their parents watching their program. Campouts visits are really good too, in fact I think they are better. Learn the schedule of a troop and pick a campout you would like to visit to see the troop in action. You don’t have to spend the night, just a few hours on Saturday will help a lot. Maybe even stay for dinner. And I wouldn’t give them more than a weeks’ notice because that would give them enough time to change the agenda. Many troops have a specific weekend scheduled every year for Webelos visits and it is usually pretty good program. But you want to see a typical campout, not one that is designed to entertain Webelos. As I said, it is usually the adults that over react to the surprise visits, so the smart SM lets the PLC handle it. I did and they never disappointed me. Good luck and have fun with it. Barry

A member of our church saw the troop trailer (not my troop) being pulled down the highway by someone without any scouts. She knew it was the troop trailer of her church because it was painted in bright orange with the troop number and church in BIG letters. She called the SM and verified it wasn't being used by the troop, then called the highway patrol and followed the trailer until the thief was pulled over. Our troop has had three trailers stolen over the years. The hardest lesson was to learn that even though the church is the owner, they will not insure them. The trailer is now chained to a light pole in the middle of the parking lot exposed to the world. If it were up to me, I would also have the Quarter master remove a wheel and lock one of the studs. Barry

Oh come on, my very Christian, church active, CPA, wife who deals with the IRS A LOT, had no trouble helping the families with individual scout accounts. The families are told up front that the funds are used only for scouting activities and will stay with the troop when they leave. Only once did a family request the funds go with them because they transferred to another troop. We actually didn't mind, but that is where our CPA Treasure (very lovely wife) suggested we not start down that path. From her perspective, it is troop funds being divied out to the scouts for troop activities. Once we let the scouts take it with them for any reason, that is where the problems start. Districts and Counsils will only get involved is the COs asked them, otherwise they don't have a clue about individual unit funds and they like it that way. Most COs would rather not get in the middle of it either unless it is something substantial like a trailer of storage building. But in this discussion, likely the individual accounts and troop property will become the responsibility the CO. Barry

Bragging as the most self-righteous in the neighborhood is always dangerous because that is when you find that you really do discriminate, especially with youth programs. Barry

We plan a year of program every six months with each new PLC. So in essence, each PLC reviews the first six months and plans the following six months. Barry

I've not been to Bartle, but we have tried several times because we wanted to experience the camp and witness Mic-O-Say.The reputation of the camp and Mic-O-Say is well established and huge. The organization doesn't get that way by accident. Barry

Hmm, so a confused young man joins the scouts to be swayed into homosexuality? The BSA has become a less safe place for scouts than it was two years ago. Barry

I am surprised people are surprised by all this, it has been discussed for years. Two things that we all knew, or most of us, was that the BSA was going to loose membership when they changed their policy to accept gays because that is the result of every scouting youth organization in North America. The second fact we have discussed and knew was a risk was that the LDS might leave. As for the panic, well NJ, go ask the cake bakers about that. We have been discussing that issue a long time as well. NJ, you didn't really believe the gays were going to accept those terms did you? I would, it doesn't accomplish a thing in their goal for gay behavior to be considered normal. Cross dressing is next, how far will it go is the question. I know that the Law and Oath will have to change to be acceptable to the New World Order. Barry

This topic needs to be changed to worst weather. Living in Oklahoma, we have a lot of server thunderstorms that make the experience as challenging as snow. One of our patrols on a patrol campout had to break camp quickly because the weather radio said they were in the path of a tornado. They breaking camp in 45 mph winds was challenging, but fun. The tornado did hit the area an hour later. I used to love watching a lightning storm and listen to the thunder, until I became responsible for dozens of other parents' kids. It's seemed to follows us everywhere from the back country Rockys in New Mexico and Colorado to the Northern Tier. Yep, snow and below freezing weather was a breeze compared to server thunder storms, at least for me. Barry

The most snow was 6 inches overnight on my very first camp out as a boy scout. It had not been forecasted and it was 80 degrees the day before. We were not prepared to say the least. I remember the SM walking through camp at sunup telling everyone to pack up and don't eat the yellow snow. I can't say I remember our coldest campout, we have had several below zero. While we don't a lot of snow in Oklahoma, it does get cold now and then. Barry

Our troop always has our own agenda within the camp agenda. We try to schedule at least one troop activity where the camp opens the activity only for our troop. Usually it is shooting sports, but it can be anything. We push the scouts to stay busy with non advancement activities and look for camps with a wide verity of biking, water sports, and so on. We also take a couple of tubs of checkers, chest, footballs, wiffle ball sets baseballs and other stuff for scouts wanting to fill in some time. Our scouts are rarely bored. We do our troop campfire to pick the best skit and we always do a river raft trip, Six Flags, or something on our way home from camp to finish with a bang. We are rewarded with scouts who are usually dead asleep before lights out AND on the way home from camp. I've bragged before that 90 percent of our older scouts go to summer camp until they age out. I think it is because we have so much fun. Barry

I'm not talking about getting them more involved, I'm talking about expectations for their sons that only a troop can provide. I'm speaking to them as parents who are investing into a program that will give their son a better future. One of my most challenging parents was an Air Force General who was also an Eagle Scout, His son absolutely hated boy scouts. We finally had to have the hard talk when his son ran away from a camp out. His son just may not be boy scout material, but if we go forward with this, he was going to have to work with me. The son did eventually earn his Eagle, but it required a lot of patience from dad. Barry

Most here know that I am not a fan of parent bashing because 9 times out of 10, the problem is with the unit leaders not taking the time to teach the parents the purpose and workings of the program. Of course the 1 out of 10 is usually a real dozy. But some of my harshest critics turned into our most devoted followers because we gave them consistent guidance that they eventually witnessed. I believe that good scout masters spend 50 percent of their efforts with the adults. Barry

That is too bad, our best SPL and scout was a natural leader that never made it past 1st Class. He hated advancement , but was one of those kind of leaders that even inspired the adults. As I matured and started to observe the different dreams and goals of each scout, I changed my approach of using rank and age as a measure for qualification in the program. I instead started encouraging the measure of maturity and experience. Barry

It wouldn't be called Scouting, it would be called YMCA summer camp. Barry

How did he get elected? The responsibility itself should have a enough respect that the scouts choose someone they think can perform the job. Even if the scout doesn't live up to expectations, the position should still carry enough respect that the scouts will follow to some degree. Not enough information to know why, but it sounds like this scout wasn't ready for the responsibility, or the scouts don't really respect the position. Barry