Eagle92

Joining the party late, but oh well.

So far oldest has visited 2 troop meetings and camped with 2 troops for a total of 4. First pushed the advancement angle, but had serious challenges over the weekend camp out. Kinda sad when a dad had to mime to his First Class scout what to do, and the SM was speaking very loudly to another leader while his scouts are within hearing range. Oldest was not impressed.

Second troop let the Scouts have fun with the Webelos, to the point that an adult cooked dinner so they could have more fun, plus the cook is an awesome chef. BUT the scouts did the clean up and were in charge. Son had a very good time and brought back memories.

Third troop was the "organized chaos" meeting. Older guys were preparing to go backpacking for a week on the AT, younger guys not going were working on basic scout skills with 2 older scouts not going on the AT trip.

Fourth Troop was another organized chaos one. Relatively new troop, been around about 3-4 year now, but leaders are outstanding. SPL didn't show up, but one of the PLs stepped up to the plate. OK the meeting didn't turn out as it was planned, but the PL adapted, improvised, and overcame. Everyone had fun.

The comment made by three of the troops was that we will provide you the opportunity for advancement, but you are responsible for doing, getting it recorded, and keeping track of it.

And what made me proud of my son was the following, "Dad, I want to join a troop that camps a lot."

WOW! Not good.

I would not do it, you will burn out and it will hurt. Trust me on it.

Quazse,

 

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

 

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

 

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

 

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

Not to be a pain, but what is your definition of "Youth?" Smile

If by "Youth" you mean someone under the age of 18, then yes they have to be registered with troop, ship, team, or crew.

If by "Youth" you mean someone under 21, which is what the OA considers "youth." The above applies AND 18-20 can also be registered as an Assistant Den Leader, or on the District Committee, specifically as a Merit Badge Counselor or as a College Scouter Reserve ( position code 92 if memory serves compared to Unit College Scouter Reserve which is 92U, again if memory serves.

Qwazse,

Yep I know folks who were not registered with a troop, mostly with Crews but one guy duel registered with a crew and ship, retain OA membership. BUT all got in the OA as youth in a troop

Camp Loud Thunder {Illowa Council}did a pilot program last year introducing pistol shooting for scouts. I believe there was a age level of 14, Each troop received 2 slots to fill. Our council had several volunteers step forward to help with instruction. 1 per 2 boys on the range. From what I understand, this year several more camps are doing it around the country.

We had something similar, 3 MB classes in the morning, 1 after lunch, and then free areas. Only class that was all the time was BSA Lifeguard. Oh and occasionally you had a MB class do something hilarious right before dinner at assembly. Also some classes may have soemthing going on 1 nite, i.e. Indian Lore MB doing a powwow withthe OA, Wilderness Survival folks going out, etc.

Only MB class at nite was astronomy, gee I wonder why. Also may have a CPR certification class at nite too. But nowadays it seems as if they have classes going on all the time with some camps.

I'm for keeping the merit badge focus; high adventure can happen the other 11 months of the year. We've taken the boys Kayaking and white water rafting; gone caving; taken week long backpacking trips; gone to ropes courses and used zip lines; all outside of the summer camp experience. We tell our boys that camp is for merit badges, the rest of the year is for fun!

Motorboating, wilderness survival, caneoeing lifesaving, YEP fun.

Wish I woudl have earned Sailing and Rifle and Shotgun MBs ( one MB at the time) way back when.

I too was never elected SPL for about 8 election cycles.Sr. year in HS was too crazy and I didn't even run. But I did the job when it was needed to be done. Was I the most qualified, not at first but over time definitely. Was oneor two of those elections popularity contests, absolutely.

But I stuck around. I did what needed to be done. I helped those who asked for it.

Sometimes being a true leader is knwoing whento step away and accepting defeat.

Here is the actual quote: from page 4

1. Two-deep leadership.

Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required ( emphasis added) and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. ( emphais added)

Patrol activities can include patrol meetings, patrol shake downs, grocery shopping, etc. I am willing to bet that when the G2SS was edited to remove patrol overnite camping, 2011 or 12, they just took out the camping section from this sentence. If memory serves that last sentence use to read " With the proper training, guidance, and approval of troop leaders, the patrol can conduct overnight camping trips,day hikes, and service projects."

KDD hit on something. If you want DCs and you are not getting them from your affiliated pack. do look elsewhere. Normally we have 5 dens, 1 of each grade. We have asked the affiliated pack for 18 months to provide DCs, to no avail. Then another troop offers DCs. CM ran into the the proposed DCs at day camp, likes them and would like them as DCs. Once that was announced, THEN the SM and troop parents freak out about "poaching" etc etc. and we get 3 folks from the troop willing to be DCs.

"The council doesn't care as long as the money comes in."

And that's why there are crews focused on everything from role-playing games or anime, to what it's supposed to be: HA, Leadership, and "a chance to learn and grow in a supportive, caring, and fun environment."-"What Is Venturing" -scouting.org

:

Yep I know, and if my post offended, I'm sorry as that was not the intent. rather it was to agree with you. That was what I was trying to point out. There are those pros who understand Venturing,usually those who were involved in Exploring or Venturing as a youth/volunteer. That was me.

But the vast majority just do not understand the concepts behind Venturing and how it works. And as I pointed out, even those pros who should know better, the ones who got the info on Venturing before it came out in order to train the Pros at the All Hands conference, don't understand all the concepts. And if they don't understand, what about the pros who didn't get the advance info or were involved as youth.

441,

Venturing's greatest strength, as well as its greatest weakness, is variety and lack of focus.

I know it's hard to understand. Heck I had challenges getting the concept down pact when I was a Sea Scout, ok Sea Explorer but I still wore the "bugs," and the ship I joined didn't have the "focus." I was expecting something similar to my Scout troop and the stories the SM who was a Quartermaster told about his adventures in Sea Scouting. But he was a Sea Scout before it became Sea Exploring.

It wasn't until I became a associate adviser with a post and went through training that it clicked. Helped that the guy who trained me was an " Exploring Executive" who focused only on Exploring, and had lost of expereince with working on a variety of posts, most career oriented but some not.

Gotta love BSA and how they are pushing ne latest fitness craze. SCOUTSTRONG anyone?

DCs are at the discretion of both the SM and CM. If a DC isn't doing his job, he needs counseling and mentoring from the DL, CM, and maybe the SPL and SM.

Needing a POR should NOT ( emphasis not shouting) play a role in whether to us e aScout as a DC or not.

A good DC is worth their PLATINUM

So we are still stuck splitting hairs and words to meet the bare minimum requirements for rank advancement.....

 

 

How about you don't worry about it and have the PLC plan an active program....More camping than the resident camp and a spring and fall campout.

In regards to you guys camping in winter, Check out the cold camping resources on Scouting.org. Also check out some of the older BSHB and FBs.

While it's heavy, it's warm even when wet, WOOL ROCKS! Army surplus blankets help a lot.

Again talk to your District Kernal or DE. The unit's percentage is determined by the council. As mentioned, some councils give a high percentage if no prizes are awarded.

My council has a program where if you a scout signs up for it, the council sets up an "account" where all of the money goes into the pot for HA or Jambo. Catch is, if you don't use it, you lose it.

Don't have the G2SS in front of me, but it is a minimum of 2 adults per OVERNITE TRIP.

So if this is a DAY TRIP, no adults are needed. If an overniter, then a minimum of 2 adults are needed. Also no "one on one" contact, so one adult needs to be with 2 youths, unless the single youth is the leader's child.

"The council doesn't care as long as the money comes in."

And that's why there are crews focused on everything from role-playing games or anime, to what it's supposed to be: HA, Leadership, and "a chance to learn and grow in a supportive, caring, and fun environment."-"What Is Venturing" -scouting.org

:

I agree to a point. Some DEs did talk out the entire process and expectations to make sure folks knew what they were getting into. Heck prior to being a DE, I had one group of folks interested in getting a crew started out of my university's outdoor club. They were all for it until the no youth and adults dating thing became known. So not all DEs are like how you described.

BUT as I mentioned in another thread, I know of DE's, one in particular who should have known better and she presented part of the training on Venturing at the "ALL HANDS" Conference in 1998 comes immediately to mind, who when it comes to Venturing know squat. And yes they do their talking points and freeze. Kinda helped that I was a Sea Explorer and an AA with a post.

441,

Venturing is a completely different animal than Boy Scouts, just like Cub Scouts is completely different than Boy Scouts. It has some elements of Exploring becasue it did split from Exploring. Hence the specialization.

After reading the Jeal book, I can understand why BSA limits access. Jeal briefly mentions the other women BP was interested in and who turned him down, and focuses on a few parts of letters. Doesn't take into account the mores and customs of the Victorian time period, nor the sense of duty that the British military instilled. BUT i Olave did destroy all the old correspondence after BP's death. The few letters between BP and the ladies of his bachelor days are to be found with their families.

"The council doesn't care as long as the money comes in."

And that's why there are crews focused on everything from role-playing games or anime, to what it's supposed to be: HA, Leadership, and "a chance to learn and grow in a supportive, caring, and fun environment."-"What Is Venturing" -scouting.org

:

Actually Venturing Crews can be anything they want, they do not need to have the "Outing" that Scouting does. After all "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING" Stick Out Tongue

So a RPG crew is 110% OK. A youth ministries crew is OK, heck the then national director told a bunch of us new DEs that going to local churches to convert their youth groups to Venturing crews would be an excellent way to promote the program and be a win-win situation for both.

Quazse,

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

As someone who was informed of Venturing before it came out in August 1998, Here are my comments. 1) The folks at national were told by my group in PDL-1 that they will be confusion with the name as A) venture crews already existed and naming the units of the new program would be confusing and B)Venturing was too close a name to the venture and the target audience was very similar. 2) The Bronze, Gold, Silver Awards were not meant to be ranks, but recognition. Ranger, and later Trust and Quest were meant to be "expert" awards with an emphasis in the particular specialty area. Units could, or could not work on them form the get go, and it was meant to be RECOGNITION. Why that got put on the "dashboard" and for JTE is beyond me. 3) Venturing has not been around long enough to get established in the public's eye. Further since units do not have to work on the recognitions, that further puts a bind on getting "Brand Recognition" 3A) Bringing back both the old Exploring RANGER rank as a specialty award, and old Exploring SIlver Award for Venturing Silver DID get some "brand recognition." My uncle, who earned both the Eagle and Exploring Silver was very happy to have the Silver Award back. 4) Even pros who SHOULD know all about Ventuing don't because of the wide variety of options for the crews. Best example I can give is the pro who should have known all about the program because she received all the info on it in order to present a class on a segment of it. BUT after receiving all the info, after just presenting her class ( which was read form the paper and looked like she did no prep work), when the time came to talk to someone about the program I had to do all the work as she sat there like a lump of coal 5) Sea Scouts has been part of Venturing from the get go. More later

For us it was the STAFF MANHUNT! Every staffer had a watermelon bounty on his head based upon their "rankings," i.e. how many times they've been caught, number of years on staff, etc. Most had 1 - 2 watermelons on their heads, but I remember one long term staffer who had never been caught since the first or second year he was on staff had a 15 watermelon bounty on his head!

And the watermelon came in handy on TROOP NITE, i.e. troop's did their own program.

Ok I admit I think some MBs do have a place at summer camp: canoeing, rifle, shotgun, climbing, you know the OUTDOOR oriented ones. Closest I can see to "paper pushing" ones is Environmental Science and possibly, stressing POSSIBLY, Journalism and Cinematography. ES has a large paper pushing component IMHO. One camp I worked at did Journalism in which the folks went out did interviews, reports, etc and published a camp newspaper. It was awesome. As for Cinematography,. again they had the scouts doing actual shows for the last campfire and for camp promos.

I do think they need to limit the number you can take. I also think they need to provide opportunities for "free swim," "Free Shooting," "free leatherwork" etc.

Don't remember camp games at the 2nd to last camp I worked at, (my boss, who never worked summer camp before in her life, had me working during the campwide games at the last camp I worked at despite me not only telling her that we would have no business in the trading post, but also showing her the sales log showing no business) But those competitions and games were someof the best memories I had. Staff manhunt, raft races, greased watermellon, those were some of the best memories..

FYI, 13 years old for COPE is a national standard, can't get around it.

KDD,

Don't know what the current camp standards are, and no I will NOT go through the 300+ page standards book again , but camps could do the towers IF inspected by a COPE director once upon a time. BUT again GTSS requires brain buckets and belay lines.

Looking at the new IG, whatever it's now called, it states:

A jamboree emblem is worn above the right pocket by a Boy Scout/Venturer or Scouter who is registered to attend or attended the jamboree as a registered participant or staff member.

So WSJ patches can be worn above the pocket.

Placing the WSJ patch on the pocket is when you are wearing a both NSJ patch and a WSJ patch Again from the current IG

Both a world and a national jamboree patch may be worn: one current national jamboree patch above the right pocket and one current world jamboree patch on the right pocket.

This is the website: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066_Section3.pdf

Local "jamborees" don't count. For example I would not wear my East Carolina Council 2010 Regional Jamboree above the pocket.

AND I forgot to add to my last post, Too bad the female Venturers who may have the same "challenges" as female leaders don't have the option.

ES441,

Only if you are a Cub Scout Leader.

According to the Leader's Uniform Inspection sheet found here : http://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/34048.pdf

Temporary insignia, including one current world Scout jamboree patch, centered on pocket. Only one temporary insignia may be worn at a time, and they are not required for correct

uniforming. Cub Scout leaders and female leaders wearing the official uniform shirt or blouse may wear one temporary insignia centered above the Boy Scouts of America strip.

(emphasis added)