Eagle92

Georgia,

I feel for ya. Yep every unit is different and situations varies. And what you pack leadership did to the pregnant mom was uncalled for.

Now in regards to what the BSA says, Cub Scouts is FAMILY (emphasis, not shouting) oriented, with families attending activities, and sometimes even a few meetings. Camp Outs are Family oriented, and a good pack and district/council event will have activities for Cub Scout siblings to do. Does it happen all the time, no. Best example I can give is my CSDC. National does permit a "tot lot" "sibling den" whatever you want to call it, and discusses it at National Camping School. Problem is not every district has the resources to pull it off. Last year was the first year we had one in the 4 years I've worked it. The siblings had the ability to do everything the Cubs did.

Now Boy Scouts is completely different in that it is oriented to the INDIVIDUAL ( again emphasis). We try to grow the Scouts physcially, mentally, and morally. Our job is to guide and mentor, but THEY take charge and do the planning. And I can tell you from first hand expereince, if siblings ruin a troop's expereince, especially one that took a year for the youth to plan, involved a 14 hour round trip car ride because the parents didn't it think it was fair for the Scouts to do the activities in the rain and the siblings are not ready for it, and then the siblings cause several hundred dollars worth of plumbing damage at the place you are staying, the BOY SCOUTS ( again emphasis, not shouting) will consider their siblings an "annoyance" and will state no more siblings will be allowed on their trips.

Yep the above happened in my troop, and it was 5 or 6 years before the youth allowed siblings along on camp outs again. All the youth at the time of the original incident either quit or were adults before the PLC again allowed another family camp out.

SSSSSOOOOOOOO,

NewToScoutsDad, why don't you ask the Patrol Leaders' Council, the ones who plan, prepare, and execute the camp outs to see if they want your son tagging along or not.

Huey,

It may not be in the GTA, but we were told you have to be registered in the BSA in order to have a EBOR.

This topic has come up recently as we have one troop that will not be rechartering since they will be going to Trail Life. One young man is very, very close to Eagle, and the question arose "What happens if his EBOR occurs AFTER the charter expires and he is not registered in the BSA?" The word the Advancement Chairman got from the PTB was that you need to be registered in the BSA at the time of EBOR.

Sasha and BLW,

U91 Unit Scouter Reserve, and U92 Unit College Scouter Reserve, are two registration codes created because some councils are requiring training to be completed brefore registering in a position, but young adults in college, the military, etc who want to remain active when they are able to , but may not have the time to complete the training required. I know of one troop that had more ASMs who were in the 18-22 y.o. range than scouts, and under the councils that require training.

So that may be an option for the young man to register in if the council won't allow him to register until training completed.

And the UXX means it's a unit position. there use to be a 91 Scouter Reserve and 92 College Scouter Reserve, don't know if they are still active since the U91 and U92 codes came out, and they were

district level positions.

Good one, Stosh! It can take a while to learn that. My first year at camp, my son came up to ask me something "Dad.." One of the experienced ASM's stopped him and said, "Dad's not here. This is Mr. so and so. Go ask your patrol leader."

If memory serves he must still be on the charter in order to have his BOR. He would be registered as either an ASSISTANT SCOUTMASTER ( emphasis as JASMs are Youth members) or Unit Scouter Reserve U91.

Do you know about the the new International Spirit Award? It replaced the International Youth Exchange Award, which in turn replaced the World Crest requirements, yep prior to 1989, you had to earn the WC.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/international/pdf/130-044_WB.pdf

Peri,

Oldest isn't the problem, He has expressed some interest. I am betting when he starts talking to the Boy Scouts about summer camp, he will be pumped. Heck when I show him photos of various summer camps, he wants in.

SHMBO is the problem. She never experienced a overnight summer camp program; all her camping expereince was with her family growing up. She see the costs and says that we can send all 3 boys to various 1/2 day long day camps for 2 or 3 weeks. Also she is the one "forcing" me to go to summer camp She told me "I know what goes on at summer camp (referring to the various camp staff shenanigans), I don't want him involved in them." Problem with having a wife help out at summer camp on her days off; She only gets the staff view of things, which doesn't affect the campers (unless you use the New Scout Program's orienteering course to hide the four wheels of the CD's jeep in retaliation for him putting the live crabs in the staff shower house, but I digress).

Again I was planning on discussing the matter with her, when 2 of my friends pointed out that A) she is willingly sending me to camp for the entire week and B) just becasue I am at camp doesn't mean I have to shadow him all the time (I don't do that now. Heck if I tried shadowing him at the local scout camp, he could easily lose me as he knows the place better than I do ) So "WHY DO YOU PLAN TO ARGUE WITH HER" (caps to show speakers' emphasis to me, not shouting at you ).They mentioned I could do my own thing, like sitting in camp drinking coffee and reading books, working on the SM's MB, help teach classes I am an MBC in etc.

Qwazse,

I'm told they are "terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future."

SSScout,

Paddle with him?!?!?! No, no,no, he has to paddle ME while I sit amidships drinking my cafe au lait (gotta have coffee with chicory to get it right ) Hopefully I won't be in a situation where I'm screaming "PADDLE OR DIE!" ( and yes, caps to emphasize shouting at the top of my lungs to my frozen with fear canoe partner in 3-4 foot seas.)

Knowing my luck, I'll be assigned to lifeguard duties if he does Mile Swim and Polar Bear.

I remember working the 105th Glasgow. They were awesome. One of the things they did, which I would like to do, is they have an annual dinner during their summer camp with just the PLC, both outgoing and incoming if memory serves, as a reward for their hard work and as a means to have fun. I liked it.

Ans as Skip said, don't call them English. Heck some may not like being called Brits.

Mixed emotions on this latest discussion. As someone who deals with teens and college students with no involvement in Scouting, I can see the difference. And I do believe part of it is some of the "paper pushing" MBs. BUT I think that there may be ways to incorporate aspects of these MBs in the 'Outing" portiong of Scouting.

Take budgeting for example and Personal Management. Apply it to weekend and HA trips.

Ok, this post is part in jest, part laughing at myself, and part a plea for help.

So I found out which summer camp my oldest's troop will be going to. Since SWMBO A) questions whether he really needs to go or not and B) has stated I WILL be attending camp with me (an aside, yes the wife is kicking me out the house for a week if son goes to summer camp, AND I WAS GOING TO "DISCUSS" THIS WITH HER?!?!?! What was I thinking), I decided to do some research on costs and stuff the camp offers.

So the first thing I do is look at costs, which are reasonable. Then I move to MBs. Ok I turned into typical CS leader turne dBS leader and said, 'Ok First Aid and Swimming MBs don't overlap." Then I started commenting on the side of the printout, i.e. 'Fun but challenging (Archery) "HECK YEAH!" beside the Scoutcraft ones, "HECK NO" next to the citizenships, "NNNNOOOOOOO!?!?!?!?!?" next to the restrictions on Climbing, etc.

Then I realized, when is free boating, shooting, etc? Had to talk to a coworker who's been there to find out the answers.

Then I caught myself, Realizing that it's HIS summer camp expereince, he decides what to take. Yes I can encourage him to take First Aid and Swimming, but he needs to decide what he want to do.

So I showed him the info tonite and he said 'Wow, it looks like lots of fun." I think he's going to have some tough decisions to make.

Except for the "paper pushing" MBs. He can do those outside of summer camp

I am basing my opinion on a negative expereince. As a Scout, we had a trip turn into a "family" trip b/c we could not get enough drivers. Long story short, it was a nightmare because after a year of planning for the trip, we couldn't do what we set out to do, and the siblings caused major damage to the place we were staying.

One reason why my pack Crosses them over as soon as possible, which is December 1st, instead of Blue and Gold. We had the same problem.

The other reason is that the Webelos 2s are chomping at the bit to be Boy Scouts.

Another option is to record the AOL into SCOUTNET before the charter expires, and then put them on the Troop's charter, assuming all units in your district recharter the same month.

My old den is now Webelos IIs and are chomping at the bit to join their troops in 11 days (Who's counting - ) One of my guys is so anxious, last nite at his last pack meeting, he was wearing his green BS belt, had his Webelos badge and tri colors off, and you could only tell he was still a Cub by the blue loops.

Only reason we didn't cross them over last nite was because the troop 5 of them are joining asked to do the ceremony on one of their camp outs.

On a different note, troop my son is joining will have him "Cross Over" that Saturday Nite with the rest of the den. BUT he has to turn over his necker and slide because they are going to do a Scout Investiture or Induction Ceremony at their Court of Honor Monday Nite.

Seems the SM didn't realize some old fogeys like myself still remember those ceremonies.

That is correct, everytime you move to a new council, you get a new ID number. Ticks me off too since I was told in 1998 by the then national SCOUTNET 2000 director that your membership records would move with you every time you switch councils.

Since then, I've been had 5 moves into 4 councils, had 5 ID numbers ( I worked for national, hence the 5th one) and only when I returned to the first councildid I ever have a repeating number. Oh and I've had to resubmit my training records every single time I moved, and multiple times in a few cases.

I have a boy 11 years old that has been AOL for a number of months now. He is being held back from going into Boy Scouts because his pack refuses to do a cross-over until the Blue-Gold banquet. This boy is in the sixth grade and won't "cross-over" until he is almost finished with the grade. I suspect this "tradition" is so that the boys will "stay together" when they go into a Boy Scout troop. It is unique this year because the Webelos II's are divided between a traditional troop they have been feeding and a new local one just starting up. The Webelos leader wants all the boys to go to the traditional troop and the boys and their parents want to go with the new local troop.

 

But all this got me thinking... Since when is the cross-over a Cub Scout ceremony? I have never viewed cross-over as a Cub Scout exit ceremony, but led by Boy Scouts (i.e. OA teams) as the Boy Scout welcome ceremony. And how can packs hold such boys back from Boy Scouts just so their Webelos II boys keep their den together throughout the year, even when the boys qualify for Boy Scouts and want to go into the program? As a matter of fact, our council always holds a cross-over ceremony at the spring camporee for all boys that didn't get a ceremony, but still need to be welcomed by the Boy Scout program.

 

I told the parents of this and offered the boy, at his discretion, a Boy Scout cross-over any time he wants it. Hopefully this will end the political ping-pong game going on, or at least direct the political rhetoric at me instead of the boys.

 

Stosh

You'd be surprised what SCOUTNET will allow. I just found out one of my Scouts had his Bear and Webelos Badges, but not his Bobcat.

I think he is applying the concept of the old "Assistant Scoutmaster Venture" of the 1990's and misapplying it to all of the patrols.

Idea of 1 adult dedicating their time to working with the "venture crew" as it was known from 1989-1998 and now know as a "venture patrol" was that one adult could work with the older scouts and assist them in doing their own program. basically making sure th 'i's are dotted and the t's crossed" sort of thing before doing their own thing without the adults around. ( this was when Scouts could camp without adults as a patrol).

Problem as noted by RS is that the venture patrol became adult run, and hence why they no longer have that position.

Forgot to add, Before I bought my hat press fo rmy good smokey, I used heavy. hardcovered books to keep the brim straight. Once I got the press, I hung it and the cover on the wall.

Now the smokey I received after completing BA22 the one that got wet in the outer bands of a hurricane the during "graduation" ceremony, well that is "well loved" and only saw a press once in it's life.

Here are some links to hat presses.

http://www.atlantictactical.com/product/alboum-hat-press-for-campaign-hats/hats#.UpwCAychHpc

http://www.leonuniform.com/Alboum-BrimPress.htm

http://www.emergencyresponderproducts.com/brprforunha.html

http://www.nevesuniforms.com/productdetail.asp?groupnumber=1086

http://www.qmuniforms.com/carrier-campaign-hat?utm_source=Shopzilla&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=HW815_BLK&src=QU3064

Raincover is good. Buy a hat press, scout shops use to sell them,if not check out a police uniform supply shop, or make your own.like you described.

We are only holding back out Webelos from receiving their AOL and Crossing Over Ceremony by 13 days, and it is by the request of the CO's troop that the bulk are joining. The troop wants it done on a camp out weekend. Ok fine with me, but if you want them to cross over on one of your camp outs, why not have the Webelos spend the entire weekend with you, and not just one night.

Me personally I say get them into the troop ASAP!

In regards to the pack preventing folks from moving up, I think part of the problem is that most troops today do not have an Investiture, or Induction Ceremony for new scouts, instead using the AOL and Crossover as the ceremony joining Scouts. Me personally, if it was recorded in SCOUTNET, and the scouts, ok scout's parents since is "council," can verify that it is recorded by the council, then I would sya "SEEE YAAAA!" to the pack.

Base,

 

 

I admit when thinking about my old den crossing over in 14 days, I do get a little sentimental. I There was once talk about everyone going to the same troop, but now that the troop is imploding, my son and another are going to a different troop, and a 3rd may go to the troop that relocated to his church. So If I am lucky, I may see the guys at camporees. But with the troop imploding, I feel as if some may lose interest. The troop has already had a few transfer and drop out altogether. And one Scout, becasue no one listens to him and treats him as a little kid, is only "active," i.e. regsitered, so that A) he can remain in the OA and B) remain a den chief for his cousin's den.

What are the youth population numbers? If the population goes down, so does the number of participants.

What other leagues and/or organizations are out there? I know that there 2 different football leagues in my area, plus MS and HS. And i am told there are multiple leagues with soccer, with it being a year round activity for some folks.

How willing are parents to dive the kids allover to be active? I remember when Oldest was into karate and how time consuming it was. Glad he got out of it, esp since the folks wanted him to commit 24/7 to it.

Base,

I admit when thinking about my old den crossing over in 14 days, I do get a little sentimental. I There was once talk about everyone going to the same troop, but now that the troop is imploding, my son and another are going to a different troop, and a 3rd may go to the troop that relocated to his church. So If I am lucky, I may see the guys at camporees. But with the troop imploding, I feel as if some may lose interest. The troop has already had a few transfer and drop out altogether. And one Scout, becasue no one listens to him and treats him as a little kid, is only "active," i.e. regsitered, so that A) he can remain in the OA and B) remain a den chief for his cousin's den.

I know NYLT has changed a lot since I took the old BA22 course, and served on staff for the JLT Course NYLT replaced. But based upon my experiences, you really need to have mastered the basic T-2-1 outdoor skills in order to pull your own weight and not be a burden to your patrol at these courses. In my BA22 patrol, we had one scout who was pushed through the course for political reasons at age 12, and the scout barely had the T-2-1 outdoor skills under his belt, To say he was a burden is an understatement.

It's kinda funny in retrospect, but once he deliberately infected his blisteres to get out of the backpacking portion of the BA22 course and had to stay in the basecamp, the patrol actually had a much better time.

We lucked out in that we have the local Order of the Arrow chapter does our AOL/Cross Over Ceremonies.

I've seen it where one of the other leaders reads the AOL script while dad with the son for the AOL Ceremony. Never really seen parents do Crossover.

While not 100% amicable, some leaders were ticked off by it occurring, but one of our DLs took approx. 1/2 of the CS pack with him when he restarted his church's pack and troop. Long story short, his pastor wanted to restart the units after a 3-5 year hiatus, and how can you tell your pastor "No." Anyway, he left quietly, only telling a few people what was going on. But when word got around, and my pack started having some issues, about 1/2 left.

Ironic thing is this. One of the leaders who was ticked off with the split, is now upset with the troop's SM, who was the CM causing issues, at our CO, and has asked the leader she was TO'd at about the troop he helped restart.