Eagle92

Well oldest has pretty much made up his mind. I don't think he will get a chance to visit the troop I would like him to visit, and instead will be visiting the troop he said "NO!" to out of courtesy. He went camping with a second troop and had a great time. Oldest scout was 13, and the unit as a whole was rough around the edges. BUT the SM and ASM know their stuff, worked through the PL ( one patrol troop at the moment, soon to change though) and have their goal for Philmont in 2016!

LOTS of potential and reminds me a little of one troop I worked with.

Well KDD, we are both in the same boat; helping our sons decide on a troop. Mine crosses over in 2 months. Been to 2 meeting and 2 camp outs with 4 different units. All he knows is that 1 unit, the unit that I originally hoped he would join until leadership changes occurred and parents took over, creating a 'high speed, low drag" troop, is out of the question now. SHMBO told me I was to tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not to consider the troop. And I admit I did the 'yes dear,' and merrily went on my way to be subtle in discouraging him. I should not have worried since A) he wasn't impressed at all with the troop on the campout and B) when he was told who his PL would be when he crossed over, he said "NO!"

 

He hasn't made a decision yet, and I hope he goes camping with 1 of the troops visited, if not both, and visits a troop he camped with.

 

He's looking for 2 things:

 

A troop that camps every month.

 

A troop with folks his own age and/or friends joining the troop so that he will have friends in it.

 

 

Here are some things I look for, and told him to look for.

 

1) Who's in charge, youth or adults?

 

2) Who's doing the teaching, youth or adults?

 

2a) If an adult is teaching, why is he? (one troop meeting had an adult going over backpacking skills and the area they were going to with the older Scouts since he had extensive backpacking expereince and did that section of the AT already. I thought it was reasonable)

 

3) How often do they camp and/or hike?

 

4) How did he feel about the group,i.e. accepted, tolerated, had fun etc?

 

Some things I'm interested in are

 

5) How much does the program cost?

 

6) What fundraising opportunities do they have for the boys to earn their way?

 

7) Do they meet year round?

 

8) Do they go to summer camp?

 

8a) If they don't go why? (one troop every three years or so does a HA trip: Philmont, AT, etc, and won't go to summer camp as a troop, but will send Scouts as provisional who want to go.)

 

9) And a very important one for me , what do they think of new parents serving on the troop committee and will you let committee members go camping?

Sorry for the delay in response very busy at work and in Scouting. In response to no summer camp when they do their HA trip, they do send kids to camp, but usually provisional or with another troop locally and a leader not going on the HA trip may attend. But not formally as a troop.

As for every 3 years, my understanding is 2 years to prep for it, i.e. get proper gear, do shakedowns, fundraising, etc, and one year to take a break.

Berliner,

I have been told that "English" interpreter strips have custom ordered for troops in Puerto Rico. And if it is a real language, BSA will make them. I had to custom order some for folks when I worked supply.

Most I've seen worn at one time is 3; Italian, Spanish, and French.

jblake47 reminded me of a story my HS Latin teacher, who also taught Greek and a few other languages, told us. Him and a buddy. who also taught Greek, were vacationing in Greece. They had a rental car, and when it broke down, they telling folks, " Our chariot broke down, can you help us?" No one wanted to help them.

The doctors I work with are in it because they want to treat patients, not make money. With the way things are now they A) can't treat patients like they want to instead having to see so many patients an hour to break even, and B) they are not even making enough to cover expenses with medicare/aid patients.

Moose,

With all due respect, none, repeat, NONE (emphasis, not shouting at you) of the doctors that I have had contact with are in favor of the current law, including one who was promoting healthcare reform.

I too know folks who volunteered for the Obama campaign who work in healthcare, one of whom was a very active promoter of healthcare reform, I would call her the biggest cheerleader for ACA prior to it being enacted, Again once it got enacted and she actually saw the nuts and bolts of it and how it is now affecting healthcare in the exact opposite way that it was suppose to help, she is not a happy camper.

Unfortunately, with more and more laws coming out, I see more camps having pools for swimming than lakes.

The camp I grew up at had a huge man-made lake with a swimming area made just for that reason (when water levels are low and you hike to the right spot on the backside of the camp, you can see part of the bulldozer that was left behind). So when I saw pictures of the brand new swimming pool, I had to ask why the council wasted all the money building it and maintaining it when they already had a waterfront. I was told that it was for legal reasons, specifically to be compliant with one set of laws dealing with under 18 workers and waterfronts. After reading the laws, I then realized why BSA watered down BSA LIfeguard, taking out the boating rescues. It would be against the law for Scouts and Venturers under 18 to do that type of training and work in that type of environment.

s most of you know, I work in healthcare. No, I am not a MD, DO, PA, ad nauseum, but just one of the behind the folks who provides the info for those folks to make the best decision. I also sit on a committee and get to hear some of the paperwork and BS these folks have to deal with.

In regards to ACA, Obamacare, whatever the heck you want to call it, because of the way it was written, so much power and decision making was given to SecHHS, that folks whose job it is to deal with legal implictaions and healthcare could not interpret it because part of the law were still being written AFTER congress passed it. Large sections of the bill related to HHS guidelines which were not out. Even the most liberal member of the committee, the one who was a cheerleader for Obama's healthcare reform is now totally opposed to it because it is hurting healthcare.

It really impacts the small, independent non- profit hospitals that are sometimes are the only hospital in an area. My local paper reports that the hospital in my town is in the process of merging with a large, for-profit hospital chain because in reviewing ACA, they do not think they could survive. Another hospital in another town has come to the same conclusion: they cannot survive alone. They are looking to getting some type of partnership set up. I can tell you from some research I've done for others that all the different reinbursement plans the governement has set up are just ways for them to not pay for services provided. Or there are some legal issues that were not thought about when the ideas popped up.

As for physicians, they are not happy. It was bad enough with Medicare/aid, but it now will get worse. Why will healthcare get worse? 1) More paperwork to deal with. That entails more time away from patients for the MDs, more staff to be hired to transcribe notes, file records, submit insurance claims, and fight insurance companies. more overhead means higher prices. Best example I can give is the conversation I had with one MD about changes in medicine: how he started a practice with just his partner, a nurse for each, and a receptionist for a total of 5 people. Now he and his partner employ a staff of 32, mostly to deal with all the paperwork. he is looking forward to the day he is bought out and can retire.

2) More patients will be added without resourcess for folks in the medical field, especially primary or family medicine. As it is right now there are not enough MDs and DOs to handle healthcare. That's why states are looking at extending the scope of practice of PAs, RNPs, and PharmDs. so that these folks can provide healthcare. Just look at where the majority of the money for programs like NURSECORPS is going: folks working on the RNP, other advanced practice nursing degrees (CRNA, etc), and nurse educators ( real problem there: not enough nursing instructors to cover demand).

But once they get the degrees and practice, then the world slaps them in the face. Low reimbursement rates, paperwork driving up overhead, fighting to get reimbursed,etc. and that is just with medical insurance and medicare/aid. Why do you think many offices are now not accepting Medicare/aid: because it does not cover the cost of the actual care! Kinda sad when a plumber can make more money take home pay than a family practice doctor. Kinda sad when you read the survey results and more and more MDs are disgusted with medicine, specifically the bureaucracy of it, that wish if they knew before going to med school what they know they know now, they would not do it.

Base,

With the new NCAP program, you need nice buildings, pools, running water, etc etc. I had to deal with that some this summer as our CSDC is run on a council camp. the 300+ page document is a major PITA that drove me to drink at time this past year. In fact the NCAP is such a PITA that one NCS staffer made the comment, after reading something I wrote, that alcohol should be a budgeted item for CSDC planning as everyone at NCS had issues with NCAP.

My understanding of NCAP, and someone with more expereince with it please correct me if I am wrong, is that it is based upon the most stringent local laws in regards to camps, tries to come up with a universal standard to meet these local laws, and unfortunatley is a means to see fi a camp is worth the effort to invest in to keep up to par, or to sell it.

That said, I bet there are a lot of camps out there that if the BSA tries to sell, the property will revert to the original owners.

Well KDD, we are both in the same boat; helping our sons decide on a troop. Mine crosses over in 2 months. Been to 2 meeting and 2 camp outs with 4 different units. All he knows is that 1 unit, the unit that I originally hoped he would join until leadership changes occurred and parents took over, creating a 'high speed, low drag" troop, is out of the question now. SHMBO told me I was to tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not to consider the troop. And I admit I did the 'yes dear,' and merrily went on my way to be subtle in discouraging him. I should not have worried since A) he wasn't impressed at all with the troop on the campout and B) when he was told who his PL would be when he crossed over, he said "NO!"

He hasn't made a decision yet, and I hope he goes camping with 1 of the troops visited, if not both, and visits a troop he camped with.

He's looking for 2 things:

A troop that camps every month.

A troop with folks his own age and/or friends joining the troop so that he will have friends in it.

Here are some things I look for, and told him to look for.

1) Who's in charge, youth or adults?

2) Who's doing the teaching, youth or adults?

2a) If an adult is teaching, why is he? (one troop meeting had an adult going over backpacking skills and the area they were going to with the older Scouts since he had extensive backpacking expereince and did that section of the AT already. I thought it was reasonable)

3) How often do they camp and/or hike?

4) How did he feel about the group,i.e. accepted, tolerated, had fun etc?

Some things I'm interested in are

5) How much does the program cost?

6) What fundraising opportunities do they have for the boys to earn their way?

7) Do they meet year round?

8) Do they go to summer camp?

8a) If they don't go why? (one troop every three years or so does a HA trip: Philmont, AT, etc, and won't go to summer camp as a troop, but will send Scouts as provisional who want to go.)

9) And a very important one for me , what do they think of new parents serving on the troop committee and will you let committee members go camping?

Skeptic,

Are you referring to this?

http://www.scoutstuff.org/internatio...em-3-inch.html

the International Activity patch, both in a 3" and 5" back patch, is very similar to the WC. requirements are set by local councils. Don't know when they were created, but been around since 1986 or 87. One of my friends hosted a Canadian Scout for a Scouting function and got it. I know I have seen some folks wear it in the spot for the WC in the past.

They also made neckers, slides, hats, and jackets. Got the necker, and slide, when I went to Canada. Got a second set and the hat and jacket when I did the European Camp Staff Program.

Sometime after 1989 and before 1995, BSA came up with the International Youth Exchange patch. requirements for it were identical to the old WC ones EXCEPT limited to Boy Scouts, Explorers/Venturers. Whye Cubs could nto earn it, don't ask me. Here is a link with requirements and image i found but see below.

https://www.msu.edu/user/rasche/scout/trp180/iye.htm EDITED, noticed the site was from 1998. Here are the last set of requirements http://www.scouting.org/jamboree/sitecore/content/home/international/informationsheets/22-323.aspx

it looks like last year they replaced both the International Activity patch and International Youth Exchange patches with a new International Spirit Award with specific requirements for Cub Scouts, " Boy/Varsity/Venturer," and Scouter. More info on that is here

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...ognitions.aspx

Again i did the European Camp Staff Program. and here is a link to that: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...nal/ecamp.aspx

Sorry for the hijack.

In my expereince, the weekend backpacking trek is the "Tune Up"or as I've heard them called "shakedown" trip. Like Base, the troops I know use weekly hikes more for conditioning than anything.

I sure hope oldest picks a troop that goes backpacking like the one he visited that is going to Philmont in 2016. Although he will be to young to go, I bet he'll love the shakedowns.

We got our previous CM, as well as outgoing leaders gift certificates to Applebees.

I hope we do the same thing again with the outgoing leadership as it is well deserved. But I know that the CM will being getting the Scouter Award

I know some beneficiaries do not realize exactly what the Scouts are capable of. I've seen some extremely shocked faces of beneficiaries because they didn't realize what the scouts were going to do and how well they actually did it.

I doubt many Youths would go against the "Old Guard" and Rebel against the Tradition yet. Look how Many Years it Took to get Cub scout Leaders and Women in OA. I get yelled at at our events because I bring things up in front of the Youths. Seems It has to be a Youth Idea only. If an adult brought it up ( ie...ME. it is to be ignored and not Considered). I understand the Youth VOTE on All issues..adults are only there to serve the Youth. My Lodge is quite tight Lipped about stuff..and Rarely has anything for Members. I have been back since September 2011 and We just had our First Fellowship in Years..We Have Winter Ordeal, Summer Ordeal, Summer Camp Call Out (Free watermelon for members and Candidates afterwards, we cut up 8 watermelons this year), what a big expense), and throw in Conclave and NOAC. I offered to get a Holiday Pot-Luck Dinner together and was told Lodge could not have it because we could not afford it. How Can you not afford a Pot-Luck Dinner where people bring Dishes? I am about ready to see about transferring to another Lodge even if it is 150 Miles away.

I understand your pain. But there is a reason why some lodges have a youth only policy in regards to speaking at meetings: adults tend to take over. I've seen this happen, and heck had to be reminded of it myself a time or two to sit down and let the youth figure it out. Unfortunately as our society extends childhood longer and longer, I see adults do more and more for "children." Best example I can give is the mom reading her daughter's school assignments and trying to set up with me a job shadowing in order for the daughter to meet requirements for her college, yes COLLEGE (emphasis, not shouting at you, OK maybe a little shouting at the situation ) class.Best thing is this, I called the mom back, daughter answers and hands the phone to mom. Instead of just letting the daughter do the work, mom does it for her.

Bando,

The hoops were there back then too. I also had the added hoop of a DAC asking me what I would do if I wasn't approved for Eagle. When I asked why and was told because HE didn't approve my Eagle project, I had to emphasize that A) the then DAC, who was sitting on my EBOR, reviewed it, approved it and it was executed as such and if that is the only reason for my denial, then how do I go about appealing the decision becasue it is NOT correct.

RS,

Agree completely. I prefer how my council growing up did it with a district/council rep on the committee's EBOR. BUT the challenge with that is that you have to rely on when the individual can meet. We had 1 Eagle who could not get his EBOR before going to boot camp with delayed entry, and when he did get back, the rep couldn't be there until after the deadline. So he appealed to council/national for the post 90 day extension and got it.

My $.02 worth.

Isn't that part of the SM's job? i know that way back in the day when I was getting ready to do my project, I talked to my SM about the entire process. I admit my paperwork was a lot simpler than today's, which lead to some problems at the BOR, but the process was the same: plan it, get it approved , revise it if need it, get the revision approved, execute the plan. Any questions I had went to the SM.

Believe it or not, the SPL who really worked with when I was a brand new PL got permission to wear both an Eagle tie bar (an old one that was a gift to him) and his Eagle medal with is military uniform at my ECOH. Also had a recruiter show up briefly with Eagle medal on too. Unfortunately for me, but fortunately for his wife, he had to leave just after arriving due to her going into labor. I saw him take it off while leaving.

BTW according to the guidelines on "mix and match" the red numbers on Boy Scouts in the Centennial Uniform is allowed too.

Berliner,

Far East also passed the WCs out too. One of my friends had one from his CS days on his uniform when he joined the troop.

I can tell you we had a busload of ticked off Scouts when out contingent leaders told us in the middle of our Canada trip that BSA now allowed everyone to wear the WC( that's how I remember the exact date of the policy change). At least our leaders made it up to us by buying the Canadian ones which are on a velvet background.

A few comments

1)Great Pic! My wife, just like yours, hates the current and previous uniforms. So I got her the same uniform.

2) As noted, insignia can be a PITA. Ebay is your friend as well as collectors. One collector, when he found out what I was doing gave me a state strip and a repro of the city strip

In regards to insignia

3) World Crest was restricted prior to August 1 1989. You had to earn it by either going overseas on a scout function or hosting foreign scouts for a week or longer. When I got wife's uniform, I didn'r include it.

4) You want the fully embroidered numbers, that may be tricky.

5) American Flag wasn't worn on uniform until 1970s/80s.

6) Want the Den Mother patch or other vintage POR patch. Which may be intersting b/c ladies were restricted inthe position they could hold.

7) hat is the ladies version of the garrison cap

8) Need the yellow ladies' tie.

If you PM, I can send you the info on the uniform I have and may have some spare uniform items.

Ok here is the story of the Charlie Foxtrot known as the Centennial Uniform.

From April 2008 to August 2008, literature said tan and green for anyone in the new shirts Cub Scout Leader, Webelos, Boy Scout, and Scout Leader. This was prior to the uniform coming out

August 2008 until March or April 2009 THERE WAS NO OFFICIAL GUIDANCE FROM NATIONAL (caps for emphasis, not shouting). There was some "rumours" on this website and others that Cubs Scouts would still be in red, but when I called a national scout shop about this matter as i just became a CS leader, I was told by them to wear the tan and green numbers. Some literature in this period has tan and green, but some has red.

May 2009 The Insignia Guide came out specifying that Cub Scout leaders and Webelos in the BS option uniform still wear the red numbers.

AND to add more to this mess, the original literature stated that uniforms items from the ODL uniform and the centennial uniform are "mix and match."

EDITED: So if you want to get technical, a Webelos or CS Leader in a Centennial Uniform with green on tan numbers is in a 'vintage August 2008-May 2009" uniform.

Sorry for the delay in response but I've been busy with work and prepping for this past weekend of "camping" aboard the USS YORKTOWN with middle son.

I remembered that the entire family took a 12-18 month sabbatical from Scouting due to some health issues the young man had some time back.. Long story short, something happened and everyone:mom and dad from both the crew and district level, he from scouts, and sis from the crew, basically told folks they need to spend some time away for health issues, transferred the records, keys, etc to folks taking their positions over, and essentially left Scouting for that time. When dad and scout came back in 2010, everyone was happy to have him back.

The cards are called pocket certificates. The come in packs of 100 if memory serves.

Mixed emotions on this one.

I've seen the 13 year old Eagle who raced through the ranks because daddy was pushing him hard. My uncle was also pushing me too, but once I got Life, I just started having too much fun with opportunity after opportunity.

I've seen the 13 y.o. "Eagle Scout" who had mommy, daddy, and grandpa sign off on all his requirements. When you tried to talk to him about some of the work he did for the MBs on his sash, he gives you a deer in the headlight look. His BOR denied him his Eagle, wrote what need to be done, etc etc. When he appealed and national granted the Eagle over the objections of the BOR, the entire district advancement committee resigned en masse

I've seen the 12-13 YO Life Scout who was gung ho about getting Eagle, but was having major challenges with leadership. Dad was on the committee recognized the leadership challenges son was having but was extremely ticked off when it was decided to not include his time as a PL because of the issues. Long story short, a plan was developed, followed, and kid did get Eagle at 14 or thereabouts.

Then I've seen the 13-14yo Eagle who I would trust with my life if things hit the fan. No change that. I'ld trust my older two kids lives in his hands if things hit the fan. Youngest would drive him nuts.